Oh Boy, Another Post About Prime Frame Imbalance

[NuLycan]

Basically the title. Here's a quick discussion and a few suggestions regarding the imbalances with the primes.

Also, I'm aware DE said they would go back and balance the prime frames, but I find that hard to believe since the last two prime frames released are already different in terms of balance.

 

First off, cosmetics. This is by far (at least for me) the most minor of the issues (if you can even call it that) between the primes, but it does bother me a little when I look at Excalibur Prime, who looks like he has a void key shoved into his forehead, and Loki Prime, who has crazy thigh protrusions and awesome satyr horns. I seriously think some of the older prime frames could use visual reworks, like the gram and torid had.

 

The stuff that actually affects gameplay is much more important to me, namely extra polarities and inherent stat upgrades. Polarities aren't as big an issue because more can be added with time and forma. But, it's definitely not fair when prime frames, which can all have the same relative amount of difficulty (if the friggin drop tables weren't screwy) to obtain, already inherently take less time to build for. Ember prime doesn't even get extra polarities, they're just different! And Loki Prime gets two extra! If A and B take the same amount of difficulty to obtain, why is B's full potential take longer to reach?

Inherent stat bonuses, on the other hand, are just straight up jacked in their current state. Rhino's bonus gets rid of his only real weakness (speed), loki gets a boost to one of his strengths (energy max), and nyx gets a bonus to help with her weakness (squishyness). So which is it supposed to be, a bonus to their strengths or an invalidation of a weakness? That's not even mentioning that the other 3 obtainable prime frames do not have any bonus to speak of. Even the unobatinable prime frame Excal Prime's bonus is unnoticable (if it even exists). Either the stat bonuses should just straight up not exist, or they should exist for all prime frames in a similar way.

 

So, as a few suggestions:

(Extremely Optional) Rework the design of the older prime frames. It'll breath new life into them.

Make is so every prime frame has either 1 or 2 extra polarities. No picking and choosing between frames to give polarities. All of them should get the same treatment as far as that goes.

(Excalibur Prime is optional in this, since he can't be obtained) If inherent stat bonuses are to stay, I personally believe they should be a bonus to the prime's strengths, but helping with a frame's weakness is acceptable too if it's balanced. For example, Excal could have a boost to his energy (just a random one since he has no real statistical strengths or weaknesses), Rhino and Frost P. should get armor buffs or speed buffs, and loki, nyx, ember, and mag P. should get armor or energy buffs. 

 

I honestly facepalmed when I read the the differences between Nyx and Nyx Prime. Is consistency ever going to be a thing when referring to the primes?

 

NOTICE: Please guys, try to stay on topic This post isn't about prime weapons, and it's definitely not about vandal weapons. This post is solely on some of the issues with prime warframes. Let's try to keep it that way.

 

EDIT1: Added a bit more info and the notice

Edited September 28, 2014 by NuLycan

[low1991]

Read OP title only:

-PRIME frame /weapon OP!!! need grind much!!

 

on-topic,

i'm concern for prime/non balance as well.

atm prime = upgraded version n have better spec in every area of non-prime...

[-----.__.G.0.D.__.-----]

Straight up, Excalibur/Skana/Lato Primes needs buff's. Excalibur prime should get his armor quadrupled and power duration quintupled.  

 

Skana needs 25% crit chance and 4.0x crit multiplier. Lato Prime needs higher dmg rating as well.

 

These primes are currently no different than their non-prime counterparts and should be revisited immediately.  

Edited September 28, 2014 by --LORD_SAKE--

[SolarDwagon]

I have to agree, the old Prime frames when they were still meant to be only reskins need some love, given that the new breed get boosts.

[xxx7]

Agree with OP 100%! Prime frames are in need of some attention -- and yes, Exy Prime looks a bit out of place (even style-wise) or "outdated". Don't get me wrong, Exy Prime is still my all-time favorite, but he looks out of place among his fellow peers. Also, just because he is unobtainable now, it was offered in a similar style to Prime Access, a time-limited product, but that should not mean he is to be forgotten and support discontinued.

 

As for the others, the "Prime" feature should be more consistent across the selection, whatever it is that makes it "Prime".

[Draciusen]

I really don't get the Nyx armor buff, she's still squishy with it, and armor isn't useful unless you've got a decent health pool to boot. They could've maybe boosted her shields to 150 instead, or even increased her sprint speed if they wanted to boost her survivability noticeably.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Draciusen

[NuLycan]

Straight up, Excalibur/Skana/Lato Primes needs buff's. Excalibur prime should get his armor quadrupled and power duration quintupled.  

 

Skana needs 25% crit chance and 4.0x crit multiplier. Lato Prime needs higher dmg rating as well.

 

These primes are currently no different than their non-prime counterparts and should be revisited immediately.  

 

Let's try to keep this on topic. This is only on frame inbalance. Prime weapon imbalance is a completely different monster.

 

Read OP title only:

-PRIME frame /weapon OP!!! need grind much!!

 

on-topic,

i'm concern for prime/non balance as well.

atm prime = upgraded version n have better spec in every area of non-prime...

Yeah, I'm concerned about the prime-non prime balance as well, but this post isn't about that.

Seriously, if you only read the title and didn't even get I was only referring to the frames, not weapons, you shouldn't even have commented.

[Edgedemon]

Straight up, Excalibur/Skana/Lato Primes needs buff's. Excalibur prime should get his armor quadrupled and power duration quintupled.  

 

Skana needs 25% crit chance and 4.0x crit multiplier. Lato Prime needs higher dmg rating as well.

 

These primes are currently no different than their non-prime counterparts and should be revisited immediately.  

since i don't have any and except for power duration they wont make any of those top dog i can live with that

 

I have to agree, the old Prime frames when they were still meant to be only reskins need some love, given that the new breed get boosts.

said while using one of the Coolest Primes,

 

Excalibur is kinda similar but he does stand out i do notice when a Excalibur prime is in the same room.

 

Ember the helm changes looks great  and the change of the thigh ..."things" ember had, made me make it my first prime

 

Mag helmet is Cool the rest so - so but with such a simple normal model its easy to appear different

[Sebastianx]

Straight up, Excalibur/Skana/Lato Primes needs buff's. Excalibur prime should get his armor quadrupled and power duration quintupled.  

 

Skana needs 25% crit chance and 4.0x crit multiplier. Lato Prime needs higher dmg rating as well.

 

These primes are currently no different than their non-prime counterparts and should be revisited immediately.  

That is sarcasm, right? If not I would also love a 50% crit chance and x5 crit damage on my Lato Vandal, kthx bye.

[Edgedemon]

That is sarcasm, right? If not I would also love a 50% crit chance and x5 crit damage on my Lato Vandal, kthx bye.

he asked for Skana prime which would make it a single sword equivalent of "butcher cleavers" or "those ugly bio short swords whose name i cant remember".

 

and lets be fair Lato is sad and Lato prime is not bragging rights is masochism 

[Arabaxus]

I still think Frost Prime should be given some movement speed buff like Rhino Prime considering he's so bloody slow.

 

Ember Prime I think would be cool if she got +25 max energy like Loki P.

[Eldnacpeek]

I want more for Frost P, I couldn't care less about the others.

[SergeiTheBeast]

The prime buffs seem pretty random tbh

 

nyx with armor

 

Rhino with speed

 

Loki with energy

 

etc. Some get buffs that help them then some get stuff that you won't even notice such as Excalibur primes faster shield recharge rate. Nyx primes armor........I cannot possibly facepalm any harder at these "buffs"  Granted I don't have EP or NP  but even on paper those are useless.

Edited September 28, 2014 by SergeiTheBeast

[Azawarau]

Polarities dont even matter

 

You can polarize a frame to be the same with little effort

 

The higher armor was my issue

 

the difference in defense between nyx and nyx prime is almost non existent

 

They may as well have left her as a clone

 

Same issue i had with loki

 

More energy? Cause loki can totally make use of that...

[NuLycan]

Polarities dont even matter

 

You can polarize a frame to be the same with little effort

I'm just gonna quote myself here. " Polarities aren't as big an issue because more can be added with time and forma. But, it's definitely not fair when prime frames, which can all have the same relative amount of difficulty (if the friggin drop tables weren't screwy) to obtain, already inherently take less time to build for." While it's not a long lasting issue, it doesn't mean we can give the DEv's a free pass to go ahead and throw out polarities randomly.

[SilverHazzes]

The problem is that every day the gap between obtaining a regular frame and a prime becomes closer because of the prime parts trading. So at the end there´s no difficulty in obtaining them to justify more buffs. With all that I still think this post is very good and maybe the solution it´s making prime frames depending on the Mastery Rank so the upgrades match the work to get the warframe and prime gear gains some work value in comparison to regular warframes. Or maybe I am wrong, everything can be discussed.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I can't justify buffing Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, or the Lato Prime, honestly.  They're the only true exclusives in Warframe that DE slammed the door shut on and threw away the key.  I say this with hesitation, but in all likelihood this is the cold truth.

 

I can only justify buffs to Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, and the Lato Prime if their base variants get a buff, and I'm guessing only Excalibur is going to see any more buffing.  Excalibur Prime will likely only be retooled to match as he always has.  That's the price you pay for exclusive content - it CAN'T be made more powerful than publically available content without it clearly screaming pay-to-win, and that's a fatal stigma to have applied to any game in the West (and probably why Phantasy Star Online 2 never made it state side.)

[NuLycan]

I can't justify buffing Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, or the Lato Prime, honestly.  They're the only true exclusives in Warframe that DE slammed the door shut on and threw away the key.  I say this with hesitation, but in all likelihood this is the cold truth.

 

I can only justify buffs to Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, and the Lato Prime if their base variants get a buff, and I'm guessing only Excalibur is going to see any more buffing.  Excalibur Prime will likely only be retooled to match as he always has.  That's the price you pay for exclusive content - it CAN'T be made more powerful than publically available content without it clearly screaming pay-to-win, and that's a fatal stigma to have applied to any game in the West (and probably why Phantasy Star Online 2 never made it state side.)

For the last time, this post is only about Prime Warframes, not weapons.

Since when can exclusive items not get buffed? We saw the braton vandal get some changes, and no one ever said anything about exclusive stuff getting more powerful than publicly available content. There's a reason I said Excalibur Prime's stuff was optional, but even if he was buffed, it's not like it'd tip the balance of the game.

You completely skipped over the point of the post, which is to equalize buffs among the prime warframes.

[Edgedemon]

 it doesn't mean we can give the DEv's a free pass to go ahead and throw out polarities randomly.

actually we can, and if we don't, they will throw them randomly anyway

[Edgedemon]

maybe the solution it´s making prime frames depending on the Mastery Rank so the upgrades match the work to get the warframe and prime gear gains some work value in comparison to regular warframes.

sounds like a terrible idea,  and heck they may burn me here but think we got mastery backwards and mixed with power creep, the things locked after mastery should be the harder to use not the hard hitters.  if you have higher mastery then you should have "better" skills, which will be more useful to a MR 0 a Loki or a rhino? how about a MR 15?

[Edgedemon]

I can't justify buffing Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, or the Lato Prime, honestly.  They're the only true exclusives in Warframe that DE slammed the door shut on and threw away the key.  I say this with hesitation, but in all likelihood this is the cold truth.

 

I can only justify buffs to Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime, and the Lato Prime if their base variants get a buff, and I'm guessing only Excalibur is going to see any more buffing.  Excalibur Prime will likely only be retooled to match as he always has.  That's the price you pay for exclusive content - it CAN'T be made more powerful than publically available content without it clearly screaming pay-to-win, and that's a fatal stigma to have applied to any game in the West (and probably why Phantasy Star Online 2 never made it state side.)

the cold truth?

 

the cold truth is no matter how buffed those guns get they will never get top dog, and if they did, they won't stay there for long since the power creep dictates there has to be a new more powerful/shinny gun so we spend more money to get it.

 

then again after throwing away the pay-2-win (in a PVE cooperative game)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestration'>out of the window, the real reason they most likely won't get buffed is only because they generate no extra revenue as opposed of a new kubrow paint, or sentinel add on, or whatever we have to buy next

 

p.d.: wanted to add a link but the forum refused and then got lazy

Edited September 29, 2014 by Edgedemon

[Lost_Cartographer]

For the last time, this post is only about Prime Warframes, not weapons.

Since when can exclusive items not get buffed? We saw the braton vandal get some changes, and no one ever said anything about exclusive stuff getting more powerful than publicly available content. There's a reason I said Excalibur Prime's stuff was optional, but even if he was buffed, it's not like it'd tip the balance of the game.

You completely skipped over the point of the post, which is to equalize buffs among the prime warframes.

 

No.  Absolutely not.  My Excalibur Prime is pretty, but in no way, shape, or form should any of the actually exclusive stuff ever get a buff over its normal counterparts.  They can't be obtained anymore.  This isn't about making Excalibur Prime on par with the other primes, which is kind of what suggests "stat buffs," so deal with the responses.  Yeah, I paid for this frame - I didn't pay because he was powerful, but because it was a status symbol.  A limited time one at that.

 

As for actually prettying him up, while it would be nice, I'm not holding my breath because it's also impractical.  There's nothing more for the developers to gain from him.  They'd be better off releasing a refurbished and re-realized Excalibur Dragon Prime into the RNG grinder.  "The FIRST first warframe!"

 

 

the cold truth?

 

the cold truth is no matter how buffed those guns get they will never get top dog, and if they did, they won't stay there for long since the power creep dictates there has to be a new more powerful/shinny gun so we spend more money to get it.

 

then again after throwing away the pay-2-win (in a PVE cooperative game)  out of the window, the real reason they most likely won't get buffed is only because they generate no extra revenue as opposed of a new kubrow paint, or sentinel add on, or whatever we have to buy next

 

p.d.: wanted to add a link but the forum refused and then got lazy

 

DE's stance has been that the pre-determined leveling content is their primary balancing point.  If the MKI Braton and Lato can get through Pluto just fine (with just serration/hornet strike and split chamber/barrel diffusion at that) I think they've largely accomplished that goal.  Then we have even more powerful weapons for the infinite scaling content, which I'm not sure if DE really cares how far people can get in a single run.  They're much more concerned with cheese level abilities than they are with clearly OP guns.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Littleman88

[Edgedemon]

time for  a counter quote!!!

 

They'd be better off releasing a refurbished and re-realized Excalibur Dragon Prime into the RNG grinder.  "The FIRST first warframe!"

 i would pay to have that!!!

 

but my Excalibur prototype would feel jealous...

[NuLycan]

 

No.  Absolutely not.  My Excalibur Prime is pretty, but in no way, shape, or form should any of the actually exclusive stuff ever get a buff over its normal counterparts.  They can't be obtained anymore.  This isn't about making Excalibur Prime on par with the other primes, which is kind of what suggests "stat buffs," so deal with the responses.  Yeah, I paid for this frame - I didn't pay because he was powerful, but because it was a status symbol.  A limited time one at that.

 

As for actually prettying him up, while it would be nice, I'm not holding my breath because it's also impractical.  There's nothing more for the developers to gain from him.  They'd be better off releasing a refurbished and re-realized Excalibur Dragon Prime into the RNG grinder.  "The FIRST first warframe!"

 

 

Because buffing excal prime's anything is just a freaking game breaker and make Warframe clearly a Pay to Win game. (facepalm) Maybe Excal shouldn't get buffed, but why not a graphical overhaul? DE should try to do things that better the game and it's community, not just things to make a profit.

Actually, this is about making every prime on par with other primes. Like I said, take a good look at the Braton and Lato vandals. They're different, and arguably better, than their vanilla counterparts. And does anyone care? So what if Excal prime had a little more armor than base excal. Even if that did cause balancing issues, it'd be the least of the game's balancing issues right now.

 

WTH does deal with the responses mean? I have my opinion and you have yours. Try to respect that.

[Azawarau]

I'm just gonna quote myself here. " Polarities aren't as big an issue because more can be added with time and forma. But, it's definitely not fair when prime frames, which can all have the same relative amount of difficulty (if the friggin drop tables weren't screwy) to obtain, already inherently take less time to build for." While it's not a long lasting issue, it doesn't mean we can give the DEv's a free pass to go ahead and throw out polarities randomly.

If the frames had meaningful boosts that might not matter

 

A little more armor on a soft frame makes no difference

 

Nyx prime is actually worse than loki prime..