Thoughts On Ember Ability Rework

[DrBorris]

WoF sucks.... sure, it demolishes at low level but it is boring even then. It is too OP at low level and too S#&$ty at high level, that is why i propose this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/288093-embers-world-on-fire-rework/ .

[Azawarau]

De's design for overheat is obvious, ember is slow and squishy, but overheat gives DR, she needs to run into crowds constantly, so she uses it with overheat, even if it is too strong, the most it deserves is a nerf. now accelerate , the only thing that truly helps on is guns,fireball and casting WoF(maybe killing a few people around you)(and fire blast but come on people), yes it gives you damage, but that's just a poor excuse of not being able to think of a better ability, why can't they just buff up the damage of her other spells instead of giving us this thing and make us do it ourselves? nova's 2 requires us to shoot, that's fine, its an interesting design and the damage is huge,however, wanting us to cast an extra spell just so the other ones can become even slightly usable is just pathetic, it's badly designed, it's unnecessary, and the ability space it took up can have way better uses. put  mine or anyone else's redesign of her 2  in would be much better than simply letting us do the things DE should have done themselves

 

yes it gives damage to bullets, but if you get a banshee(who has the same stats except faster running speed), she can do it much better and wont restrict elemental effects, 250%bonus for your self or 500% bonus for the entire team?and since damage abilities aint all that useful later on in the game, you may as just get a banshee

If you knew how to avoid hits at close range it wouldnt be an issue

 

Most times i dont even need to use accelerant for lvl 30 enemies

 

Just waltz around them a bit

 

Also ember isnt slow

 

Shes average speed

 

Slow would be rhino or frost

[SandwitchPrime]

If you knew how to avoid hits at close range it wouldnt be an issue

 

Most times i dont even need to use accelerant for lvl 30 enemies

 

Just waltz around them a bit

 

Also ember isnt slow

 

Shes average speed

 

Slow would be rhino or frost

for a warframe with defensive abilities so bad, she may as well be

WoF sucks.... sure, it demolishes at low level but it is boring even then. It is too OP at low level and too S#&$ty at high level, that is why i propose this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/288093-embers-world-on-fire-rework/ .

whoo i seen this one, and yes, it's a poorly designed ability and wont really work with a squishy warframe

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Why do people always under estimate accelerent , it can keep entire waves in stun lock if needed and gives the utility of not having to run max blind rage, as when activated on a mob can buff world on fire dramatically. I actually believe alot of ppl have a problem with ember because they dont mod her correctly, just my opinion.

Edited October 5, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Malikon]

Why do people always under estimate accelerent , it can keep entire waves in stun lock if needed and gives the utility of not having to run max blind rage, as when activated on a mob can buff world on fire dramatically. I actually believe alot of ppl have a problem with ember because they dont mod her correctly, just my opinion.

I think it is not so much underestimated, but that it requires active use to shine and not just press button and be nigh invincible for 20+ seconds.  In essence, most people believe its "too much work". 

 

It being an active-use ability that requires skill and timing to get the most out of is the reason why I like it so much.  It makes me sad that so many people keep requesting it removed for something so boring and unnecessary as Overheat.

[Riot_Inducer]

I had a lovely match with a random player by the name of archwizard the other day who had the most brilliant idea of how to rework fire blast I had yet heard.

 

S/he suggested making fire blast into an anti-melee ward of sorts by having it knock enemies out of its radius at cast and become an uncross able barrier for its duration dealing damage and knocking back anyone attempting to cross it.

 

Now that base idea might need tweaking to be balanced as a #3 ability but it's still the best idea I've heard for fire blast. 

[Azawarau]

for a warframe with defensive abilities so bad, she may as well be

whoo i seen this one, and yes, it's a poorly designed ability and wont really work with a squishy warframe

I think there are just bad players who are sour over overheat being gone

 

Easy mode out the window

[SandwitchPrime]

Why do people always under estimate accelerent , it can keep entire waves in stun lock if needed and gives the utility of not having to run max blind rage, as when activated on a mob can buff world on fire dramatically. I actually believe alot of ppl have a problem with ember because they dont mod her correctly, just my opinion.

in late game EVERY ability i had to use  comes with extra energy cost and tbh, it's not that good since it's max range is 47 and anywhere beyond that would require you to use it again

 

if you need stun lock look no further than banshee, and you may as well coz they pretty much deal the same amount of dmg.

like i said if DE thinks WoF needs a buff they should have just done it instead of....well, this thing, it's a poor excuse for not being able to come up with something better, take any of the suggestions in the forum and they can do much better

[SandwitchPrime]

I think it is not so much underestimated, but that it requires active use to shine and not just press button and be nigh invincible for 20+ seconds.  In essence, most people believe its "too much work". 

 

It being an active-use ability that requires skill and timing to get the most out of is the reason why I like it so much.  It makes me sad that so many people keep requesting it removed for something so boring and unnecessary as Overheat.

where did i request overheat to be back? and if you think overheat is boring then that's one more reason to change WoF coz that's pretty much the same thing with Flame pillars instead of DR

 

among all the 1.0 sprinters ember has the worst defense ability

[SandwitchPrime]

I think there are just bad players who are sour over overheat being gone

 

Easy mode out the window

again, no where did i request overheat to be back in this post, and in this game skill matters less than say luck and time.

the most over heat deserved is a nerf, and i dunno how many times i had to say this, if her spells need a damage buff, give it a damage buff, there are way more things ember could do that are more interesting, and way more abilities in this game that deserves a remake(fireblast looking at you here), so far she's the only one who had to use an extra spell just so her other spells are slightly useful in high levels

 

it seems like DE's idea of balance is simply:passing levels on pluto,and if you are lucky maybe you can die less in T4......and also if you are really lucky we could make you some what useful compared with the popular frames and let you join the cool kids club

[Malikon]

where did i request overheat to be back? and if you think overheat is boring then that's one more reason to change WoF coz that's pretty much the same thing with Flame pillars instead of DR

 

among all the 1.0 sprinters ember has the worst defense ability

I never intended to suggest that you had wanted Overheat back, but every single Ember thread has multiple people begging for it.  And yes, something does need to be changed (likely Fireblast and possibly WoF as you wanted) as her kit feels incomplete as it is.

[Azawarau]

again, no where did i request overheat to be back in this post, and in this game skill matters less than say luck and time.

the most over heat deserved is a nerf, and i dunno how many times i had to say this, if her spells need a damage buff, give it a damage buff, there are way more things ember could do that are more interesting, and way more abilities in this game that deserves a remake(fireblast looking at you here), so far she's the only one who had to use an extra spell just so her other spells are slightly useful in high levels

 

it seems like DE's idea of balance is simply:passing levels on pluto,and if you are lucky maybe you can die less in T4......and also if you are really lucky we could make you some what useful compared with the popular frames and let you join the cool kids club

Awfully self incriminating there when i didnt mention you specifically

 

I use my ember on pluto more than anywhere else and believe me when i say accelerant is just overkill there

 

The issue isnt so much damage as much as clashing mods and tight builds that arent efficienct

 

Ive also personally gone through T 3 survival 40 min + with a WoF ember on my team who was rockin the entire time

 

Ember = high risk high reward

[SandwitchPrime]

I never intended to suggest that you had wanted Overheat back, but every single Ember thread has multiple people begging for it.  And yes, something does need to be changed (likely Fireblast and possibly WoF as you wanted) as her kit feels incomplete as it is.

i used to want overheat back but that would make ember even more useless for her pathetic dmg on her ult. that's why i suggested a remake instead of bringing the old spell back

 

im a lol player and to me a caster's abilities are supposed to compliment each other, (and not in the way accel did)but in this game it's really just a "use it when ever you feel like"thing, in warframes most abilities are separated form eachother, there are no combos or anything like that while it is fine since this is a shooter, it feels less of how it should be. the right example would be valkyr who's spells actually work together, valkyr's ult takes away some attack speed, so she also needed warcry, and since she was limited to melee attack her ripline would make it easy to catch running enemies and use wall attack, while her shout enables execution attack for more damage, that's good ability design

imagine a group of high hp enemies appear before you, and see a ember running right into the crowd with obsidian skin, explodes, casts firestorm and knocks them away, uses fire wall and starts shooting buffed up fireballs, doesnt that sound way more badass than say accel then fireball spam? it feels and plays better when you have abilities that are designed for each other

 

 

 

nekros im looking at you

[SandwitchPrime]

Awfully self incriminating there when i didnt mention you specifically

 

I use my ember on pluto more than anywhere else and believe me when i say accelerant is just overkill there

 

The issue isnt so much damage as much as clashing mods and tight builds that arent efficienct

 

Ive also personally gone through T 3 survival 40 min + with a WoF ember on my team who was rockin the entire time

 

Ember = high risk high reward

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Edited October 6, 2014 by Tol853147920

[Azawarau]

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Banshee as a damage frame is extremely energy inefficient and has her own drawbacks compared to ember

 

M prime is broken still and needs to be worked down

 

Reward isnt mods

 

Reward is high killing power

 

You know what risk/reward is

[SandwitchPrime]

 

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Banshee as a damage frame is extremely energy inefficient and has her own drawbacks compared to ember

 

M prime is broken still and needs to be worked down

 

Reward isnt mods

 

Reward is high killing power

 

You know what risk/reward is

 

banshee's sonar costs only 50 energy, lasts 30 seconds, increases damage by 500% if shot in the right place and have a base range of 35 meters, it works for your entire team despite weapon type or elemental effects. those are all unmodded base stats and so far it seems superior to accel, power efficiency you say?

yes, ember has killing power, but there are so much frames that can kill with out risking running in to crowds like nova,who gives more reward, less risk(unless we talking speed nova)(again she probably needs a nerf but dont you dare DE)

[Azawarau]

 

 

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Banshee as a damage frame is extremely energy inefficient and has her own drawbacks compared to ember

 

M prime is broken still and needs to be worked down

 

Reward isnt mods

 

Reward is high killing power

 

You know what risk/reward is

 

banshee's sonar costs only 50 energy, lasts 30 seconds, increases damage by 500% if shot in the right place and have a base range of 35 meters, it works for your entire team despite weapon type or elemental effects. those are all unmodded base stats and so far it seems superior to accel, power efficiency you say?

yes, ember has killing power, but there are so much frames that can kill with out risking running in to crowds like nova,who gives more reward, less risk(unless we talking speed nova)(again she probably needs a nerf but dont you dare DE)

 

Embers is 500% max (banshees is 1100ish btw) and CC spammably while buffing and also ties into her powers along with affecting certain CC weapons (Ogris,Stug) and melee in a ,much more reliable fashion

 

Also

 

Stoop mentioning nova as if she doesnt beat banshee and everyone else as well

 

That argument is already out the window

[SandwitchPrime]

 

 

 

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Banshee as a damage frame is extremely energy inefficient and has her own drawbacks compared to ember

 

M prime is broken still and needs to be worked down

 

Reward isnt mods

 

Reward is high killing power

 

You know what risk/reward is

 

banshee's sonar costs only 50 energy, lasts 30 seconds, increases damage by 500% if shot in the right place and have a base range of 35 meters, it works for your entire team despite weapon type or elemental effects. those are all unmodded base stats and so far it seems superior to accel, power efficiency you say?

yes, ember has killing power, but there are so much frames that can kill with out risking running in to crowds like nova,who gives more reward, less risk(unless we talking speed nova)(again she probably needs a nerf but dont you dare DE)

 

Embers is 500% max (banshees is 1100ish btw) and CC spammably while buffing and also ties into her powers along with affecting certain CC weapons (Ogris,Stug) and melee in a ,much more reliable fashion

 

Also

 

Stoop mentioning nova as if she doesnt beat banshee and everyone else as well

 

That argument is already out the window

 

ember572.5% banshee1145%，banshee wins no matter what, and are you sure you really wanna compare spamable cc with  banshee? like really?

it's true that banshee's sonar might not work on ogris(i dont own one), but come on....tell me you dont go to regular missions with that thing.

 

it doesnt matter how great accel may be, it's still no excuse for DE's laziness on ember's rework, and ember can still be improved, a lot,i dont feel like repeating so scroll up into the posts before it's not far.

i use nova as a example because despite being "slightly" OP, that's how a glass cannon caster should have been, being able to deal damage from a rather safe distance, this usually apply not only for casters but for anyone else who's not a tank, not running head first into the crowd.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Sonar makes crit spots difficult to shot sometimes, especially with 50 enemy in front of you, on the other hand i can just spray and pray with heat damage on accelerant mobs with 100% buff rate. Try maxed power str accelerent and boar prime set up for heat damage, am pretty sure the enemy wont be alive long enough to shoot back.

Edited October 7, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[DarthBane1]

Agreed with the wall of fire. Or even making that circle heat power bigger and strong enough to "melt" bullets as the come in. Kind of like how frost is. (Why not? Have something where they are complete opposite elements but have similar powers). Everytime I see it I think pathetic. 

 

I think of something like how fantastic four did against Dr Von Doom in the first movie. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by DarthBane1

[Azawarau]

 

 

 

 

i always know that ember is a kill or be killed character but the risk is still too much compared to some of the best damage frames like banshee(oh yeah, she is a damage frame) or nova

with a team, ember could be replaced with any damage frame of choice ( especially nova but she probably need a nerf)and probably get a better result,when a character is easily replaceable, you know there;s something wrong.

and just tell me where the reward is.....does it like raise mod drops or something....

the actual high risk high reward frame is nekros......with some proper rewards.............

Banshee as a damage frame is extremely energy inefficient and has her own drawbacks compared to ember

 

M prime is broken still and needs to be worked down

 

Reward isnt mods

 

Reward is high killing power

 

You know what risk/reward is

 

banshee's sonar costs only 50 energy, lasts 30 seconds, increases damage by 500% if shot in the right place and have a base range of 35 meters, it works for your entire team despite weapon type or elemental effects. those are all unmodded base stats and so far it seems superior to accel, power efficiency you say?

yes, ember has killing power, but there are so much frames that can kill with out risking running in to crowds like nova,who gives more reward, less risk(unless we talking speed nova)(again she probably needs a nerf but dont you dare DE)

 

Embers is 500% max (banshees is 1100ish btw) and CC spammably while buffing and also ties into her powers along with affecting certain CC weapons (Ogris,Stug) and melee in a ,much more reliable fashion

 

Also

 

Stoop mentioning nova as if she doesnt beat banshee and everyone else as well

 

That argument is already out the window

 

ember572.5% banshee1145%，banshee wins no matter what, and are you sure you really wanna compare spamable cc with  banshee? like really?

it's true that banshee's sonar might not work on ogris(i dont own one), but come on....tell me you dont go to regular missions with that thing.

 

it doesnt matter how great accel may be, it's still no excuse for DE's laziness on ember's rework, and ember can still be improved, a lot,i dont feel like repeating so scroll up into the posts before it's not far.

i use nova as a example because despite being "slightly" OP, that's how a glass cannon caster should have been, being able to deal damage from a rather safe distance, this usually apply not only for casters but for anyone else who's not a tank, not running head first into the crowd.

 

With banshee you have to aim and alot of weapons dont mix with it >i mentioned that< but it is way stronger and totally worth it

 

Her power CCs AND debuffs

 

Banshees only spammable CC is push and its a darn good one but again different situation/style and doesnt come preloaded with the debuff as well that makes your powers stronger

 

Slightly is not a way to describe a novas OPness

[SandwitchPrime]

Sonar makes crit spots difficult to shot sometimes, especially with 50 enemy in front of you, on the other hand i can just spray and pray with heat damage on accelerant mobs with 100% buff rate. Try maxed power str accelerent and boar prime set up for heat damage, am pretty sure the enemy wont be alive long enough to shoot back.

never said accel is bad, but it has room for improvement.

with a boar prime and predicting you have any skills on pointing and clicking sonar works much better. shouldn't be that hard with a auto trigger shot gun.

[SandwitchPrime]

With banshee you have to aim and alot of weapons dont mix with it >i mentioned that< but it is way stronger and totally worth it

 

Her power CCs AND debuffs

 

Banshees only spammable CC is push and its a darn good one but again different situation/style and doesnt come preloaded with the debuff as well that makes your powers stronger

 

Slightly is not a way to describe a novas OPness

sonar:high skill=high reward

 

i never said her accel is bad, but it has room for improvement, like turning it into a aura spell that eats up duration so ember can stop focusing on all 4 when modding

 

that debuff, again, is only a result of de not being bothered with buffing her abilities and coming up with better designs, they know well enough how the fire element and ember's damage need buffs, there's no excuse for that

 

i used quotes on slightly

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tol853147920

[Azawarau]

sonar:high skill=high reward

 

i never said her accel is bad, but it has room for improvement, like turning it into a aura spell that eats up duration so ember can stop focusing on all 4 when modding

 

that debuff, again, is only a result of de not being bothered with buffing her abilities and coming up with better designs, they know well enough how the fire element and ember's damage need buffs, there's no excuse for that

 

i used quotes on slightly

Or make WoF a toggle so you can free up 2-3 mod slots and not have to worry about the range penalty from narrow minded

 

Bonus: the durational penalty from fleeting expertise no longer hurts the accelerant WoF combo, making it extremely sustainable

[MrsUnreal]

Me persobally as a part time pyromaniac (lol!) i think ember right now is perfect she's designed to be an offensive warframe if you want defensive frames there are quite a few you know...

I mean to me an all the games that I know fire is seen as treated as an offensive element. And i think ember being full dps and having no defense skills fits her very well

Oh and have you ever seen the damage accelerant +a nice modded ignis can do?? You'd be surprised to see some of the so called best dps weapons be thrown into the dirt...

 

I agree with this dude. I started playing in July and Ember is one of my favourite frames. I think that Tol's opinoins are valid, however they are only really applicable to players who have been around for as long as him/her.

 

Personally when I played with ember the first few times I thought that she was really balanced and that with some time, you learn how to use  her abilities synergistically to survive. 

 

For example, you say that you want to use 'Accelerant' as a panic button but I don't know if that is where its best use is due to the small range that you pointed out. To me Ember feels like an 'in your face' frame and that is where she is best. Not only that but you can throw fireballs whilst reloading! This stuff is golden! The damage fall off doesn't really matter then because it becomes utility and its dirt cheap energy wise.

 

Overall I think she is ok to be left how she is, the only ability that I rarely use would be fireblast (which I use in infested def) simply beacuse its not aggresive enough. lol.