So People Who Worked Hard Enough To Earn That Mod

[Blatantfool]

 Change was supposed to prevent Abort Farming.

 

 Guess what it does? You nailed it. Now you can't abort farm.

 

 

 If you die enough to run out of revives and mission fail you DO deserve a mission failed. That is called a 'Game over'. You ran out of lives. I suppose at this point it falls on you to get good enough to simply not die. I'm only a decent player myself and I've never run out of Revives. I don't see why you can't reach that point.

[DARKKi]

Actually, he has a point. I don't think he was saying that's what he would have done. He was pointing out the thought process that a good portion of the playerbase might go through.

There are many players who can easily solo a level on their own. Suppose these players are farming a boss, and the boss fight is the only part they need help with - or perhaps they can solo that boss, but it would be faster in a team. Now suppose that these players are paired with newer players, who are much more susceptible to dying. Under normal circumstances, it wouldn't hurt to try to revive them - even if they fail and die (because of the prolonged exposure to enemy fire that reviving entails), they can keep their items.

With the new rule in place, such players are actively discouraged from trying to revive that teammate, simply because doing so would risk death and - in turn - whatever they were farming. Especially so if it's a blueprint they're looking for.

Am I saying that's what I'd do? Absolutely not; I always try to revive other players and generally adjust to the team. It doesn't change the fact that not everyone is going to act like that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. In a proper game where all players are being challenged, then yes, revival and teamwork becomes an absolute must. It's just that it wouldn't work that way in all of the maps. There has to be a better way to encourage teamwork than that.

 

Most of frames have system for reviving, shields, aoe effects, invisibility, etc. or sentinel which cloacks

[Quetzhal]

Most of frames have system for reviving, shields, aoe effects, invisibility, etc. or sentinel which cloacks

True enough, but everyone's mod and power setup is different. There's no guarantee that they'll have the right abilities on hand to revive someone.

I'm not really completely against the idea of aborts causing you to lose your items; frankly speaking, it's what I expected coming into the game, so I don't feel like it's any big loss. I do see where it becomes a problem, for some players, though, including myself when I get stuck (which happened a few moments ago), or in Defense missions - I don't think it works very well for its intended purpose in its current state.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Quetzhal

[Varil]

My only concern, as others have mentioned, are Defense missions. Before I'd keep going as long as my team was willing(unless I saw a really awesome reward), because why not? I wasn't losing anything except the escape reward and even failure was usually entertaining up to the end. Now I don't see any reason to hang around once things start getting dicey. Better to get out with the loot than to stick around and risk everything.

 

Any other time, well...death happens. I don't like dieing or losing, but I can accept the possibility(and all the risks that entails).

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

Am I the only person who was surprised the game ever let you keep that stuff when you FAILED. If you fail you shouldn't get the loot. Why should they reward failure?

 

I may be a minority but I like it this way.

To be honest this did surprise me at first. 

Not used at all to playing games that reward you for trying content that is beyond your level and/ or skill, it's what motivates one to get better. Sure I'll test myself against content that is (in theory) harder than I can handle, but I do this purely as a personal challenge not as an attempt to "farm" something that I'm not yet good enough to obtain. If I fail and lose out, then I simply drop back to what I know I can handle and practice my skills/ earn some mods in order to be better prepared.

 

I mostly play solo and although being in the minority I actually like these changes. I like the idea that I only get to keep what I'm good enough to hold.   There is always a lower level available to hone your skills on, and it will drop mods you can use. Provided the levels are balanced for a reasonable skill requirement (and equipment requirement) then I won't cry over losing the odd mod that I'm not good enough to hold on to. Needless to say, solo infested (alert) missions are to be viewed as practice only with no real expectation of reward beyond an increased level of self restraint as you try not to yell at the screen for once more getting stun-locked :) (I seem to have an unhealthy ability for getting my posterior handed to me on those missions).

 

The only issue that I feel is all that important is the issue of reviving team mates becoming a choice as to whether you need them versus the risk to whatever mods etc. you may of acquired so far if they have died in a particularly dangerous location (large swarm of ancients+ motley crew I'm looking at you here) This could turn bad very quickly, particularly if someone is only running in a team for the sake of convenience and doesn't actually need a team mate to complete the mission. For myself, if I have any say in the matter, I'm not leaving a team mate behind regardless of the risk...no mod or reward is worth a guilty conscience ;) Everyone has their own code of conduct by which they play, this change makes it all the more important to ensure whichever clan you join (if any) matches you own moral code.

 

Ultimately PUGS are what they are, in every game with pugs they have never been anything more than a roll of the dice, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes not.  Hopefully the majority of players will rise above self-interest for the good of the team, but I'm not going to expect it if I go public to be honest.

Edited April 20, 2013 by FluffyBunnySlippers

[7rance]

Granted i didn't read all posts here, but:

 

Do you lose all Mods if you FAIL a endless Defense Mission now? Lets say on Wave 24, you lose all Mods you earned in the 30 minutes you played there? On normal Missions that wouldn't be a problem since they only last about 10 minutes max, but Endless Defense can go on quite a while...

 

 

Im fine with losing mods/BP if i quit a mission, but if i fail or die i should still keep everything i looted. Quitting a Mission is something you chose yourself(not counting outside sources like internet hickups), but if i lose all mods from all the endless defense Waves just because i fail at a certain wave is just stupid.

[ShimmerDoll]

If you get back to your corpse without dying again, you forgot to mention that part.

 

Fluffanutter

You're wrong I play the game daily. If I loot a weapon off the ground I keep it. If i loot a ring I keep it. The only thing that you lose when you die is the souls. You don't lose the items you pick up along the way.

[Blatantfool]

You're wrong I play the game daily. If I loot a weapon off the ground I keep it. If i loot a ring I keep it. The only thing that you lose when you die is the souls. You don't lose the items you pick up along the way.

 

 

 The reason you keep the items is a design choice. The Developers of the Souls game actually like to USE death of the player sometimes.

 

 By allowing you to keep an item despite death they can build deathtraps around items and the player can still manage. In a situation where death is certain the player is supposed to simply make that death worth it. Make it count.

 

 

  But that isn't Warframe. There is a pretty stark contrast between the Souls games and Warframe.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Blatantfool

[ShimmerDoll]

 The reason you keep the items is a design choice. The Developers of the Souls game actually like to USE death of the player sometimes.

 

 By allowing you to keep an item despite death they can build deathtraps around items and the player can still manage. In a situation where death is certain the player is supposed to simply make that death worth it. Make it count.

 

 

  But that isn't Warframe. There is a pretty stark contrast between the Souls games and Warframe.

Yeah dark souls is a good game that takes real skill and is well made, and dare I say fun...  heaven forbid. They don't force you to group and you can take on all the content solo, I can even fight end game bosses with no armor and just my fists. Takes awhile but there is skill to it.

 

I get what you're trying to say but this new change they did screwed over the solo player. It definitely won't make me play with others.

Edited April 20, 2013 by BloodDoll

[Loswaith]

I personaly suspect the not getting your collected mods/materials on a failed mission is a bug (since it kills the spirit of endless defence).

 

What the devs seem to be moving against are those that play some get to a boss take the reward and then bail out on completing the mission.

 

Most likely they are looking for a good way to handle the failed aspect so people dont just die after the boss and fail from that (thus achieving the same result as abouting).

[Blatantfool]

Mission Failed is the same no matter how you reach it. If you are out of lives and you die you have failed. You don't deserve to keep items for a mission you failed to complete.

[Koagedo]

Some people need to read the changenotes better

 

"- Aborting missions now forfeits any obtained credits, mods, resources or blueprints, earned XP is still rewarded"

 

check it yourself that's exactly what the change notes say I.E if you die, you keep everything, if you fail, you keep everything, if you however abort the mission early for any reason you lose everything, allot of people in this thread have been whining about losing things if you die or if you fail, that shouldn't be the case with this update, its to stop people rushing bosses and leaving as soon as they have the BP or mod then need.

 

Edit: yes there have been cases of losing items on failed missions but that is most likley a bug as it wasn't intended (if we refer to the patchnotes)

Remember this is still beta, anything can change and you will have to get used to bugs and the like untill the game is no longer beta

Edited April 20, 2013 by Koagedo

[kLai]

Some people need to read the changenotes better

 

"- Aborting missions now forfeits any obtained credits, mods, resources or blueprints, earned XP is still rewarded"

 

check it yourself that's exactly what the change notes say I.E if you die, you keep everything, if you fail, you keep everything, if you however abort the mission early for any reason you lose everything, allot of people in this thread have been whining about losing things if you die or if you fail, that shouldn't be the case with this update, its to stop people rushing bosses and leaving as soon as they have the BP or mod then need.

 

Edit: yes there have been cases of losing items on failed missions but that is most likley a bug as it wasn't intended (if we refer to the patchnotes)

Remember this is still beta, anything can change and you will have to get used to bugs and the like untill the game is no longer beta

 

DE later mentioned that in the case of defense missions, you either claim and exit or fail and lose it all. So clearly, aborting is not the only way of losing everything.

[Koagedo]

DE later mentioned that in the case of defense missions, you either claim and exit or fail and lose it all. So clearly, aborting is not the only way of losing everything.

Id like to see a source for that, I don't recall them saying that during the livestream. either way its still beta and still buggy  who knows what they might do, ive been playing this game since January, but not so active on forums :S, and im willing to take the optional reset. just so i can see what they have done with the game, i dont mind farming everything and i understand that people do have problems farming stuff, why is that, in most games farming is the only way forward you would have thought people got used to it by now

[ShimmerDoll]

Yeah I don't get why they care if people farm in anything. It's a choice people make or don't. I don't because my time is limited but their drop rates are really poor and they priced things too high on the market, thus people felt they had to farm to get anything. It's pretty damn boring playing with one frame and the same 3 weapons all the time.

[Koagedo]

Yeah I don't get why they care if people farm in anything. It's a choice people make or don't. I don't because my time is limited but their drop rates are really poor and they priced things too high on the market, thus people felt they had to farm to get anything. It's pretty damn boring playing with one frame and the same 3 weapons all the time.

It's because when people farm they aborted as soon as they had/didn't have what they wanted from the boss screwing the other members of the team who recived no BP since they didnt have time to get to the boss or pick it up

[Blatantfool]

Yeah I don't get why they care if people farm in anything. It's a choice people make or don't. I don't because my time is limited but their drop rates are really poor and they priced things too high on the market, thus people felt they had to farm to get anything. It's pretty damn boring playing with one frame and the same 3 weapons all the time.

 

 The problem isn't farming - in fact you can still easily farm low leveled missions. 

 

 However Abort Farming was an exploit. You abort a mission - which means you fail it - and players where still making profit despite this fail state.

 

 They where profiting off losing. This isn't how things are supposed to work, so they fixed it.

 

 

 Now it can't be done. Abort a mission and you get nothing but the XP.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Blatantfool

[DBugII]

Do you lose all Mods if you FAIL a endless Defense Mission now?

You lose all mods, resources, and credits.

It's annoying, because you can't abort after half your team ninja-leaves and you can't win past wave 9 with only 2 people - And if you're fighting high-level infected, this is almost a promised loss. It's gotten to the point to where I don't want to risk going above wave 5 because I already lost 30+ mods, some rather decent might I add, and several rare resources, which I needed to craft.

I agree that giving up a mission prematurely should come with a stiff penality, but I do not believe that failing a mission should offer that same penalty.

Edited April 20, 2013 by DBugII

[DeusDraco]

Having just run a mission with a friend that threw a defense secondary objective and failed it, I'm rather against failure costing you everything that you got to that point. Being a new player struggling to get mods to improve my starter (and only) frame, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Okiesmokie]

Am I the only person who was surprised the game ever let you keep that stuff when you FAILED. If you fail you shouldn't get the loot. Why should they reward failure?

 

I may be a minority but I like it this way.

 

I agree with this, except in the case of defense missions.  IMO defense missions should work as a checkpoint system.  When you get the option to abort and claim your reward, it should allow you to keep all of the items/mods/blueprints/whatever you have earned to that point.

[pyan]

hostage mission:
-rescue hostage

-hostage gets stuck

-hostage dies

=lose loot

 

 

boss missions:

-kill boss

-get bp/part

-get stuck in part of the map.

=lose loot

(saw this twice tonight)

 

 

any mission:

-have loot

+stalker

=lose loot.

 

 

also, farming rubido is going to take weeks now.
new warframes/equipment will take longer to obtain

feels like they just want me to use platinum to buy gear now.

Edited April 20, 2013 by pyan

[RX-3DR]

With the recent update, abort farming no longer exist. In an attempt to bargain for a compromise, the community wishes to allow fail farming, which takes 15 seconds longer to achieve than abort farming.

[krisp]

This technically didn't fix that issue. If the host was looking for a certain BP and that BP doesn't drop, they can still abort. lol

Finally, someone talks sense on the warframe forums.

 

 

I dunno about other people, but... okay, I had a low-level banshee with 0 revives and I was doing Nef Anyo which is pretty dumb to begin with. So I failed the mission after killing him, that's fair too. But why'd I have to lose the Gallium that I got fair and square from his corpse?

Edited April 20, 2013 by krisp

[Kitzun]

One question: if people can rush and solo a boss, before aborting or not, why are they even playing online ?

Why don't they play solo ?

[Arcatar]

The new system
is
AWESOME!
You get the thrill every time you get a mod you like.