Anti Red Veil Thread. (Red Unveil)

[Quatrez]

The syndicates are tearing us apart Tenno, a civil war is coming.

[(PSN)MadDerpyMonkey]

Weapons development is not a sign of oppression but is really a sign of freedom. Why do you think the United States of America has the Second Amendment? "The right to bear arms" Originally it was designed so the people can protect themselves due to lack of proper military, but as time went on it gained a new symbolic meaning when carrying weapons you give freedom, and by taking it away means enslavement. Disarming people is the best and most effectual way to enslave anyone. To allow ones life to be taken because one failed to defend it is wrong. The right to self-defense is a freedom. The Red Veil are not the Grineer or the Corpus they are a syndicate that was born to fight the grineer, corpus, and any form of corruption or tyrannical power that threatens to enslave, and oppress the solar system. In many ways they too uphold the ways of Hayden...

"we kept the world safe from corrupt kings and brutal warlords... from despots, and demagogues."

-Dark Sector: Zero (Comic book that came with the Dark Sector Game)

It's funny you post this because i feel that The Red Veil resembles the United States Government more than any other syndicate. And bearing Arms is  a sign of freedom, but developing new weapons has nothing to do with freedom. Weapons development is purely about creating more efficient ways to make enemy forces die. Who do you think hires defense contractors, your local gun stores? No, governments and your 1%ers are the ones who benefit from that knowledge...not the non-elitist civilian populations who the 2nd amendment was designed to liberate.

 

Here's the reason i see the red veil as metaphor for America:

Red Veil - most hated syndicate

America - most hated country (i still love it, Merica F#$% YEAH!)

 

Red Veil - purging corruption

America - spreading democracy

 

Red Veil - Kills all who oppose

America - "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his"

 

Red Veil - forums say system is flawed and won't work because of it's own corruption.

America - the system is flawed and wont work because of its own corruption.

 

Real me - proud to be an American

Tenno me - Hail the Veil!

[-CdG-Revo]

It's funny you post this because i feel that The Red Veil resembles the United States Government more than any other syndicate. And bearing Arms is  a sign of freedom, but developing new weapons has nothing to do with freedom. Weapons development is purely about creating more efficient ways to make enemy forces die. Who do you think hires defense contractors, your local gun stores? No, governments and your 1%ers are the ones who benefit from that knowledge...not the non-elitist civilian populations who the 2nd amendment was designed to liberate. Here's the reason i see the red veil as metaphor for America:Red Veil - most hated syndicateAmerica - most hated country (i still love it, Merica F#$% YEAH!) Red Veil - purging corruptionAmerica - spreading democracy Red Veil - Kills all who opposeAmerica - "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his" Red Veil - forums say system is flawed and won't work because of it's own corruption.America - the system is flawed and wont work because of its own corruption. Real me - proud to be an AmericanTenno me - Hail the Veil!

A strange voice:Sleep my child... Don't worry about those silly illusions, they were just dreams...

May Suda huide you

[Skull_Tumpet]

"Steel Meridian intends to change grineer authority. People are actually a problem when it comes to the Grineer. With no conflict with the Tenno or Corpus, the Meridian/Grineer can advance until they have fixed their genetic problems, after which  they will be much friendlier and less warlike."

 

That is a MASSIVE assumption. The grineer were made for combat and view victory in combat as their birthright. They seek to dominate the solar system and enslave it's population because they believe and are brainwashed to think that is the only way to achieve balance. The only relationship they have with the corpus is to gain weapons and resources so they can continue killing. 

 

Also, they want to kill the tenno to use their blood to fix themselves. They cannot do it any other way. Tyl Regor wasn't trying to reverse the genetic degradation so that everyone can live happily ever after. He was doing it to produce grineer that were even stronger, vicious and deadlier in combat. 

 

​In order to keep the grineer in line you would have to fundamentally alter their 'programming' and political system. You would have to eliminate the two queens, kill off their commanders, and all their political leaders. You honestly think someone like Vay Hek is just going to get along with everyone if he has no one to fight? He is a corrupt politician only in the way that he kills his rivals. Grineer can't stand fellow Grineer killing their brothers/sisters but could care less about non-Grineer.  

 

Then you have pretty much ever other revered grineer hero in the solar system dead set on killing the tenno. You think that even if they were 'fixed' the Grineer would just say "You know what Tenno? You know what Corpus? We know you have both killed untold millions of us, as we have you (Corpus), but hey, let's just put all that aside and get along ;)!

 

No. That war had been raging for centuries before the tenno even woke up and will continue to do so. 

 

Also: let us be VERY CLEAR about the goals of the STEEL MERIDIAN: They want to PROTECT THE INNOCENT.They wage a GUERRILLA WAR to do so. They don't want to, and are incapable of changing the entire billions+ strong of the Grineer faction. They have NO PULL WHATSOEVER in the grineer political machine, seeing as the Grineer also really, REALLY hate traitors.

 

The Steel Meridian want to help protect the people they can with the resources they have at their disposal. That's it. No Grand, sweeping  "everybody should get along!" dogma. Just literally "Lots of innocent people are getting torn up in this war, and there is no one but us to stand up for them". That is literally what they say in their recruitment intro. 

[Skull_Tumpet]

It's funny you post this because i feel that The Red Veil resembles the United States Government more than any other syndicate. 

 

If you think that out of all the factions listed, the US bears the most semblance to one whose explicit goal is to cause genocide on a solar system wide level based on religious fervor, you have a tremendously backwards view of the US. 

 

The Red Veil represents extremists more than anything. They want to kill anyone who doesn't conform to their doctrine, and see enemies everywhere.

 

The 'US', or country for that matter isn't really represented in the small smattering of options we have to choose. There are parts of political doctrine most countries share scattered among every syndicate. 

 

Pointing to one and saying oh! OH! that one's the US, or Russia! It's exceedingly boiling down a country's identity to the point where it's just an overly generalized, stereotypical collection of bullet points is mildly insulting. 

 

Trying to shoehorn those bullet points into a fictional faction and claim it represents X or Y country is just stupid. 

 

 I'm also an american, and it's profoundly embarrassing for me to think that you believe our country = "kill everything we don't think is right!!!"

 

The syndicates are meant to represent ethical/moral issues, nothing more. You're supposed to have mixed feelings about joining them. Seeing as the Red Veil is actually a fanatical group that wants to exercise their own brand of "justice" is supposed to have two counterpoints: 

 

The Corpus and The Grineer are both brutalizing the solar system, so they must be bad. 

BUT!!! 

The Red Veil says that they see corruption everywhere and that the solar system must be cleansed in a great and bloody purge. 

So what about the people unaffiliated with either faction? 

 

You are supposed to think "What is the lesser evil here?" 

 

That's a primary counterpoint to the Steel Meridian: They want to protect the innocent, BUT they are are allied with The Red Veil, who want to kill a lot of people regardless of whether they are involved with the war or not. 

 

That's what I liked about the Gravidus Dilemma; you had to choose to either protect your fellow tenno, or protect innocent people.

 

Although now invasions have a much more mercenary choice of "who can pay more".  

[Vorsches]

Where have the Arbiters said that we will replace the Orokin as emperors, sitting in their "golden palaces"? The Arbiters merely say that we shall surpass our masters. There is no claim to rulership over the system. Do not let you blind hate cloud your judgment. The Arbiters only seek to achieve the full potential of the Tenno, not to subjugate the system to Tenno rule.

Well said. Truth spoken, as should be expected from a fellow Arbiter. At this time all the Tenno know is to be warriors, but it is what we cannot remember that suggests that we were and are more than just warriors. We will restore our memories, we will become more than our masters of old.

Truth through practice, truth through discipline.

Edit: Oh and, the Veil will not prevail, not by depending on martial skills alone. Seek truth in true Tenno ability, and rise above the lie of limiting yourselves as just warriors.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Vorsches

[Morec0]

Where have the Arbiters said that we will replace the Orokin as emperors, sitting in their "golden palaces"? The Arbiters merely say that we shall surpass our masters. There is no claim to rulership over the system. Do not let you blind hate cloud your judgment. The Arbiters only seek to achieve the full potential of the Tenno, not to subjugate the system to Tenno rule.

 

I was basing the comment on what you said about the "Tenno are emperors" in that post a while back. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say what the Arbiters were saying. Still, it seems to me that if the Tenno are to "surpass their former masters" there is a subtext of "emperorship" there. But we need just a touch of clarification from the source (DE).

[WERElektro]

So This thread turned into "Red veil = metaphor for america"

 

....

You know... actually we hardly know anything bout the red veil.

And yet you already come up with that... stuff.

 

Red Veil also reminds me of some RL groups... especially the sentence "They see corruption all around them (except on themselves ofc)".. but I keep that to myself.

Bringing up rl politics in a thread that's about a fictional group we hardly know anything about.... idk... Personally I think that's kinda... weird.

[Skull_Tumpet]

So This thread turned into "Red veil = metaphor for america"

 

....

You know... actually we hardly know anything bout the red veil.

And yet you already come up with that... stuff.

 

Red Veil also reminds me of some RL groups... especially the sentence "They see corruption all around them (except on themselves ofc)".. but I keep that to myself.

Bringing up rl politics in a thread that's about a fictional group we hardly know anything about.... idk... Personally I think that's kinda... weird.

 

Yeah, I guess that would be the shorter version of what I was trying to say. 

[(PSN)MadDerpyMonkey]

 

 I'm also an american, and it's profoundly embarrassing for me to think that you believe our country = "kill everything we don't think is right!!!"

oh hey, your idea is stupid because it's not mine...that's all i heard you say. Not only did you go in the opposite direction i was trying to send you you put words in my mouth.

 

I wasn't trying to say that America just kills people that don't agree with them. I was in the military for 9 years...i know what we kill for. The point i was trying to make is that the Red Veil might not be the Fascist monsters that everyone makes them out to be. We don't just go around killing innocents and unarmed people because they think differently. We wage war on those who threaten our ideas and way of life (and this my friend is something America does religiously...check the news). in my mind that is all The Red Veil is trying to do (which is why they have allied with steel meridian).

 

either way, good job at taking things out of context you kubrow turd!

Edited October 27, 2014 by (PS4)MadDerpyMonkey

[Morec0]

oh hey, your idea is stupid because it's not mine...that's all i heard you say. Not only did you go in the opposite direction i was trying to send you you put words in my mouth.

 

I wasn't trying to say that America just kills people that don't agree with them. I was in the military for 9 years...i know what we kill for. The point i was trying to make is that the Red Veil might not be the Nazi monsters that everyone makes them out to be. We don't just go around killing innocents and unarmed people because they think differently. We wage war on those who threaten our ideas and way of life (and this my friend is something America does religiously...check the news). in my mind that is all The Red Veil is trying to do (which is why they have allied with steel meridian).

 

either way, good job at taking things out of context you kubrow turd!

 

I see their mission similarly: they aren't attacking civilian targets to kill everything that isn't them and start over as the only ones (no, that kind of racial purification seems to be the New Loka's stance) they're attacking the Grineer and Corpus to tear down their tyranny and groups that would try to stop them from putting the former to their rightfully-deserved bloody end (New Loka and Suda, who don't want to see the Tenno - or anyone - used for violence).

[Fari]

I really disagree with their views (and color choices), but.... I really want their badges... sexy moons and feathers....... must not be tempted.

[ElHefe]

Well said. Truth spoken, as should be expected from a fellow Arbiter. At this time all the Tenno know is to be warriors, but it is what we cannot remember that suggests that we were and are more than just warriors. We will restore our memories, we will become more than our masters of old.

Truth through practice, truth through discipline.

Edit: Oh and, the Veil will not prevail, not by depending on martial skills alone. Seek truth in true Tenno ability, and rise above the lie of limiting yourselves as just warriors.

 

I have posted this before, but it bears repeating: 

 

The hardest fought battles are the inner ones ... and diginity endures knowing that 

 

[Morec0]

I really disagree with their views (and color choices), but.... I really want their badges... sexy moons and feathers....... must not be tempted.

 

Join the Red Veil - we have shineys!

[ElHefe]

@ MadDerpyMonkey and @ Skull_Trumpet ... It's time to tone it down, gentlepeople

 

First off, you two share a common RL view - it's a matter of wording that an argument has broken out

 

Second, while analogy is a very effective tool, it's best to leave contemporary politics out of forum discussions

Remember, the forum is international and consequently every political, ethical and religious perspective will be represented in the membership

Even the term "Nazi" will carry some sting to some members ... "fascist" would be a more general and less insensitive way to express the same idea

 

So far this thread has been one of the more robust discussions about the syndicate system, it would be a shame to derail it ...

[(PSN)MadDerpyMonkey]

agreed and edited. wasn't really even trying to start a political RL thing...originally i just wanted to point out that the right to bear arms and weapons development were two very different things, the latter not really synonymous with freedom at all.

[LunchBoxKilla]

FIRE SHALL CONSUME THE GALAXY. WITH THIS HOLY PURGING FIRE LIFE WILL BEGIN ANEW

 

 

 

HAIL THE VEIL

 

[SIDESTRE4M]

Who else sees fault in believing any of those Syndicates?

 

Honestly only Steel Meridian wins my real sympathy. They stand up for something the Tenno should do themselves.

Even if they are too weak compared to the grineer, they stand for an ideology of freedom, for the end of slavery.

 

Many other Syndicates are the same as religions. They do everything for the sake of freedom/equality (yet they don't bring any) or telling you, you are superior for XY reason and others are not and you are to rightfully oppose them.

 

Red Veil wants to destroy corruption. As long as there is no definition what exactly is this corruption, they are killing the same things we do.

[Nero9937]

We shall surpass our former masters !

 

The arbiters of hexis are the ones who seek the truth.

 

Edit: How can someone not join the space Greybeards ?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Nero9937

[Skull_Tumpet]

oh hey, your idea is stupid because it's not mine...that's all i heard you say. Not only did you go in the opposite direction i was trying to send you you put words in my mouth.

 

 

Let's continue this in PM. It's clear there are people here that are less than comfortable with political discussion in their games forum.

[-CdG-Revo]

We shall surpass our former masters !

 

The arbiters of hexis are the ones who seek the truth.

 

Edit: How can someone not join the space Greybeards ?

Trust Suda, Suda knows you can know...

...

Let's see if any skyrim fans can figure out that reference

[ElHefe]

@ MadDerpyMonkey and Skull_Trumpet ... kudos to you both for so deftly handling things

[RadTulik]

Red Veil wants to destroy corruption. As long as there is no definition what exactly is this corruption, they are killing the same things we do.

 

And the whole "no cost to great, no blood innocent" thing raises some big warning flags.

 

From what the followers are showing so far it's certainly not helping their claim that the Red Veil won't go off the deep end. If they haven't already. They may be claiming to fight the good fight but when it's all said and done, they don't see anyone in this war other than themselves as uncorrupted and the real heroes won't be sitting on their butts when the Red Veil show their true colours. 

 

I used to support the Veil but their claims that there are no innocent people have destroyed my respect for them. It's possible they're just in it for the violence and using a "Revolution" to cover it up and it's very odd when you've known The Red Veil post-solar war that they were essentially freedom fighters, heroes. But not anymore. They've become twisted somehow. Either that or Cantis tricked us. Their motto says it all.

 

A possible interpretation could be that they meant no cost too great from their soldiers and no blood innocent as "We don't spill the blood of civilians" but that belief is overwritten just by how "No Cost To Great" is imposed in front of the former. There's no way around it, it absolutely implies that these people are just blood knights through and through.

[Morec0]

And the whole "no cost to great, no blood innocent" thing raises some big warning flags.

 

From what the followers are showing so far it's certainly not helping their claim that the Red Veil won't go off the deep end. If they haven't already. They may be claiming to fight the good fight but when it's all said and done, they don't see anyone in this war other than themselves as uncorrupted and the real heroes won't be sitting on their butts when the Red Veil show their true colours. 

 

I used to support the Veil but their claims that there are no innocent people have destroyed my respect for them. It's possible they're just in it for the violence and using a "Revolution" to cover it up and it's very odd when you've known The Red Veil post-solar war that they were essentially freedom fighters, heroes. But not anymore. They've become twisted somehow. Either that or Cantis tricked us. Their motto says it all.

 

A possible interpretation could be that they meant no cost too great from their soldiers and no blood innocent as "We don't spill the blood of civilians" but that belief is overwritten just by how "No Cost To Great" is imposed in front of the former. There's no way around it, it absolutely implies that these people are just blood knights through and through.

 

It's "no blood to precious" - don't try to change the words to suit your agenda. To the Veil, everyone has a part of play - and no matter who you are in their standing you are NOT above laying down your life for the cause of purging corruption.

[-CdG-Revo]

It's "no blood to precious" - don't try to change the words to suit your agenda. To the Veil, everyone has a part of play - and no matter who you are in their standing you are NOT above laying down your life for the cause of purging corruption.

But but...

Veil is corruption...