I Think The Infested And Stun/knockback Things Need Some Tweaking.

[Cleesus]

I think a few of you are still missing the point that stunlocking is bad and annoying, and thats all the infested does. Every single infested has a way of stunning a player to death. Like each single one has an 100% chance to stun you if they hit you/get too close. Thats not fun and people that die from it are not bad players, its bad mechanics.

 

Something does need to be done with the faction because as of right now, its better to just run past them when soloing.

[Balo]

EDIT: btw not talking about soloing, I hardly ever play solo and the game seems like it was designed with teamwork in mind

 

Nobody's suggesting that standing on boxes is the real solution, people are just commenting on the exploitable AI.

 

The game is played differently against infected.

 

When you attack the corpus or the grineer they take cover from YOU, while you're job is to rush them/flank them/otherwise blitz them to death. Alternatively you can make a more slow and steady relentless approach to them. If you're soloing, you're most likely going to have a more guerilla approach. YOU are the scariest thing on the ship, you can afford to take risks.

 

When you fight the Infested, they do not give a F***. They give zero fucks. THEY are the scariest thing on the ship and you have to pick your battles with them. They swarm and rush you, you play keepaway. You find opportunities to strike (i.e. slash dash across a line of them, herd them into a bottleneck, hop from platform to platform, round them up into a big one-button ultimate deathpile), they provide plenty such opportunities. If you wanna try and man-fight them you better have a plan (i.e. warframe powers or reliable stunlocks), or you'll get swarmed by dogs, or slapped by the choreographed ancients. I realize sometimes the animations bug out and they aren't as choreographed, but that complaint lies with the animations.

 

I agree that disruptors should not take 100% shields and energy on hit (or at least not 100% energy), but they should still take a considerable amount.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Balo

[Galiath25]

Even the Zerg have abilities, lots of it. They can attack en mass with Zergling, shoot spike with Hydralisk, blow themselves up with Banling, shoot spore/infect base with Queen, shoot AOE spore with Devourer, etc.

As the above poster mentioned, the number of mechanic in Infrst is low compared to Grineer/Corpus which turn them into one-trick pony. All of their tactic can be countered by standing on box or high place.

They need more mechanics to be interesting. It's not about being hard or difficult.

 

I probably should have been a bit more specific. They wouldn't be turned INTO zerg, they would become zergERS.

 

I just meant the term in it's use of -> assuring ones victory using overwhelming numbers / greatly outnumbering the enemy, and swarming them.

 

Like the post above, the corpus and grineer have intelligence and diversity covered, so why not have a few levels that are all just about good ol' shoot and kill? I guess a better comparison instead of zerg would be the flood. You've got things that jump, explode, everything rushes at you. Of course, giving these things guns WOULD NOT BE A GOOD IDEA! xD

 

Even though it would annoy the hell out of all the exploiters, give all infested the ability to jump at people who do that (edit: by that I mean jumping on boxes). So if the infected haven't been able to attack for X amount of time even though they have been trying to path to you and you haven't been moving much (or w/e conditions you want to make). They will start jumping at you if you are within a certain distance (so infected trying to run at you from say, a balcony far away, won't just randomly jump a 100ft gap and pwn you) and knock you off down into the crowd of death below.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Galiath25

[BlueCremeSoda]

I think the problem stemmed from the faction designed with melee/stunlock as main mechanic. 

 

It makes the Infest pretty easy if you know how to fight them since they have no choice but to engage player in melee (or a bit long melee range, in case of Ancients) in order to deal damage and threaten player with stunlock/stagger.

 

It isn't cheap design, it's lazy design.

 

Infest definitely need more mechanics in order to serve as an interesting faction.

 

I'm glad some people get it like this.

 

It's like having enemies that constantly freeze a player in place for a period of time. Constantly. It's not fun, it's lame, it's cheap/lazy design, there's no thought or any true difficulty added to it. The player does not get outclassed, outplayed, outmatched, they are just cheaply killed while unable to take any action.

 

It's as if people think that reducing their reliance on stunlocking players is comparable to a large enemy who kills in a couple hits with an attack pattern or attacks that are very consistently dodged. It's simply not the same honestly. It's just a cheap mechanic abuse, essentially.

[Liberty83]

On the one hand, yeah stunlock spam can really suck especially when every little critter can add to it.  But really stunlock spam (in a sense) is nothing new.  Look at left 4 dead games.  One hit from most special infected units and you are permastunned unless a teammate can get to you.  It really promotes working as a team, in a similar way that Warframe does.  If you see an Ally getting swarmed you can either nuke, possibly AOE melee or if they do die, hopefully kill everything before their second wind timer runs out.

 

It is a steeper learning curve when every unit can potentially add to the stunlock but in a strictly PvE Co-Op game you can have encounters like this that encourage you to stick together, stay close and work as a team to stay alive.

 

Personally I don't see it as a huge deal, as you have Ember with fireblast for "Oh no about to get swarmed but now all the trash mobs are dead" 

 

You have Rhino's with their like 20 second invulnerability power when combined with things like flow and streamline let you stay untouchable through most of the mission.

 

Trinity with Energy Vampire + Reflect power is lets you waltz through infected hoards like it was nothing, non stop.

 

Nyx Mass Confuse + Infested = Free Kills

 

Excaliber about to get swarmed, get out of jail free for 25 energy or less with slash dash.

 

Loki -> Decoy Infested will never swarm you.  Add in invisibility and you can pretty much do whatever you want.

 

Ash 35 energy stun + invisibility for when you are about to get swarmed.

 

That leaves Volt, Sayrn, Banshee, Mag annnd Frost? I think.  All of which have a tier 4 AOE Nuke which while can't be spammed like the other warframe powers listed, can save you if you get in over your head on occasion. 

 

I like the idea that they made a "Zerglike" enemy with no intelligent AI reasonably threatening.  Even with that, they are still most likely the easiest when it comes to defense thanks to their predictable "Swarm" AI rather than hiding behind cover and wearing down the defense target from range. 

[neKroMancer]

On the one hand, yeah stunlock spam can really suck especially when every little critter can add to it.  But really stunlock spam (in a sense) is nothing new.  Look at left 4 dead games.  One hit from most special infected units and you are permastunned unless a teammate can get to you.  It really promotes working as a team, in a similar way that Warframe does.  If you see an Ally getting swarmed you can either nuke, possibly AOE melee or if they do die, hopefully kill everything before their second wind timer runs out.

 

It is a steeper learning curve when every unit can potentially add to the stunlock but in a strictly PvE Co-Op game you can have encounters like this that encourage you to stick together, stay close and work as a team to stay alive.

 

Personally I don't see it as a huge deal, as you have Ember with fireblast for "Oh no about to get swarmed but now all the trash mobs are dead" 

 

You have Rhino's with their like 20 second invulnerability power when combined with things like flow and streamline let you stay untouchable through most of the mission.

 

Trinity with Energy Vampire + Reflect power is lets you waltz through infected hoards like it was nothing, non stop.

 

Nyx Mass Confuse + Infested = Free Kills

 

Excaliber about to get swarmed, get out of jail free for 25 energy or less with slash dash.

 

Loki -> Decoy Infested will never swarm you.  Add in invisibility and you can pretty much do whatever you want.

 

Ash 35 energy stun + invisibility for when you are about to get swarmed.

 

That leaves Volt, Sayrn, Banshee, Mag annnd Frost? I think.  All of which have a tier 4 AOE Nuke which while can't be spammed like the other warframe powers listed, can save you if you get in over your head on occasion. 

 

I like the idea that they made a "Zerglike" enemy with no intelligent AI reasonably threatening.  Even with that, they are still most likely the easiest when it comes to defense thanks to their predictable "Swarm" AI rather than hiding behind cover and wearing down the defense target from range. 

 

No, stunlock is not a solution to promote teamwork.

 

It's a simple mechanic that should be used sporadically but not as a main mechanic that promote teamwork. Playing for 100 hours, the Infest mainly suffered from lack of mechanic, not the player. We have many tools to counter that and after we acquired said tools, they ceased to be a threat (they have bloated statistic instead but that can be countered with High DPS weapon and ammo boxes).

 

Stunlock worked in L4D mainly because it fitted the game thematically. You're supposed to be helpless, you need other to help you from said condition. However, Warframe is a complete opposite since thematically - Tenno are special force send to do various missions in the system, wearing powerful exoskeleton capable of almost everything.

 

And you're easily stunned with a mutated dog 1/4 your size.

 

Stunlock should not be a main feature of a faction. Steep learning curve isn't what I'd describe Infest gameplay. It's more like - Grab your gun (no, not paris and snipertron), grab Scindo and go wreck things. Fighting Grineer/Corpus is definitely more interesting. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by neKroMancer

[stacey69]

<p>Nothing wrong with infected or any stuns in game. You know its there, so avoid it. Dont scream for nerfs. Practice and master the game.</p>

[Galiath25]

"And you're easily stunned with a mutated dog 1/4 your size."

 

Oh god I laughed when I saw that. They are not 1/4 our size...

 

Try and fight a big aggressive dog in real life and tell me it's easy.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Galiath25

[Ninja101]

Add this to Infested...

Brought to you by Resident Evil

 

Regenerator

-Cannot be killed permanently

-Revives after awhile

-Not available in defense (They eat you)

-Good for New mission type "Escape"

-Best for Halloween as they endlessly chase you until you die = Horror

 

[MarcusGraves]

Nothing wrong with infected or any stuns in game. You know its there, so avoid it. Dont scream for nerfs. Practice and master the game.

 

that is terrible reasoning that gets nothing done in the development of a game, get out of here with that garbage. Its not actually nerfs people want its a rework of how the faction itself functions because it relies on a cheesy mechanic that leaves it bland and boring. you say avoid it, see that is a problem then when a good chunk of the player base for your game is being vocal about something they are very displeased by and they are ignored especially when that something is a major part of the game.

 

as it stands right now infested may be considered the easiest faction but that is no excuse for them to be a one trick pony with such an uninspired mechanic that leaves them completely uninteresting to fight and sometimes frustrating. infested rely on only one tactic and it is obviously "we just bum rush into melee and hope our stun lock takes effect". what ends up happening with this they either get steamrolled because they have no ranged units to soften players up from a distance while the melee goes in or you as the player end up getting cheesed to hell and back by stun/knockdown lock or shield/energy drain and this is honestly downright boring.

 

what the infested need more than anything is unit variety and power shift. now most people recognize what power shift is for games (nerf something to buff something else in return to balance it out) and off the bat im going to say stun/knockdown CAN be kept in what the infested do but it CANNOT be in the form of a lock that has to go. some knockdown/stun is okay like the heavy grineer's melee grenade or corpus shockwave moa's but the whole point of the group being stun/knockdown is not okay. trimming some things down can allow new and more interesting units to be introduced into the faction to make up for some of that loss in power and make the experience more engaging and fun.

 

some things that should happen

nerf side:

 

-Chargers lose hit stun on claw attack 

-slightly lower range of Ancient's extending arm attack and make it so it can't go behind/through it (this sometimes happens when you run/roll behind one, you'll see its arm go right through its chest and hit you still)

-Ancient Disruptor no longer steals ALL of your shield/energy will instead only steal HALF of your shield/energy (keeps the threat w/o it being super lame if you get hit once by accident)

 

now the good stuff

The buffs:

 

-slightly increase charger run speed + increase health pool some (makes them like the shock troops of infested and loss of hit stun must be compensated)

-increase the power of Ancient Healer's heal aura some (right now no one notices the heal this ancient is pretty much a dud ATM)

-slightly increase speed of all crawlers to give them little boost (no one really fears them might as well make them faster)

-introduce ranged basic unit that launches organic shards at players (no huge details they just need a basic ranged unit to soften players up for melee and prevent AI box abuse)

-introduce 2 ranged heavy units: one will rapid fire organic shards at range and launch shards in a radius around it when players get into melee other will fire a bio bomb that explodes into flames and does an acid attack that bypasses shield when players get into melee

 

these are just starters and infested have the potential to be the most interesting faction yet it is wasted on a simple melee all day strategy. discuss and if OP is still reading thread give input as well

Edited April 24, 2013 by MarcusGraves

[Tsukinoki]

@MarcusGraves
I like your ideas for nerfs and buffs.  The infested really need a larger pool of units to select from and need something at range, especially with the new rooms added into the planet and especially the asteroid missions.  If you see them coming its nearly impossible for them to reach you, but if a few chargers do make it through and start stunlocking you it may as well just be over unless you are lucky enough that a few stuns miss.

Now, one thing I would like to suggest is to add a short grace period at the end of the stun/stagger animation where you cant be put back into the stunned state.  It doesnt have to be long but it would allow the player to get away without being perma-staggered.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[MarcusGraves]

@MarcusGraves

I like your ideas for nerfs and buffs.  The infested really need a larger pool of units to select from and need something at range, especially with the new rooms added into the planet and especially the asteroid missions.  If you see them coming its nearly impossible for them to reach you, but if a few chargers do make it through and start stunlocking you it may as well just be over unless you are lucky enough that a few stuns miss.

 

agreed, ive seen the flaws of an all melee group/faction in too many games and it pretty much always leads some kind of AI abuse or eventual steamrolling because the enemies can't reach and do damage to the players. it quickly become boring because you don't have to adjust to the situation and its just the same stuff over and over w/o any risk.

 

also with the addition of range units to infested just having a freeze mod won't become an almost instant "i win" button because you're slowing them to a crawl with it thus making it harder for them to melee you or keep them from attacking.

[Earl.Grey]

The only Infested that really makes me rage are the Disruptors - they take ALL your energy/ make it difficult to see anything for a few seconds as well as unable to collect energy while under that effect.

[Drasiel]

@ MarcusGraves

 

Your suggestions for a change in the mechanics and the addition of a couple different units sounds like a good solution to the boring frustrating slog that is the infested faction.

 

As it is right now I either wait for my friends to come online to rush through the infested levels or just skip them whenever possible because they are not interesting or enjoyable. Grineer and Corpus are fun and I've had to adjust my playstyle to deal with the different units that can show up and that's a good thing. Infested...sigh, I play solo so maybe the stunlock they have going on punishes me more but, they rush they stunlock and a big poison ancient cuddles me while I'm stunned...oh yeah and blocking does nothing. -_-

 

The most irksome thing to me is while I hate the faction units I love the feel of their levels and their visual design.

[BlueCremeSoda]

that is terrible reasoning that gets nothing done in the development of a game, get out of here with that garbage. Its not actually nerfs people want its a rework of how the faction itself functions because it relies on a cheesy mechanic that leaves it bland and boring. you say avoid it, see that is a problem then when a good chunk of the player base for your game is being vocal about something they are very displeased by and they are ignored especially when that something is a major part of the game.

 

as it stands right now infested may be considered the easiest faction but that is no excuse for them to be a one trick pony with such an uninspired mechanic that leaves them completely uninteresting to fight and sometimes frustrating. infested rely on only one tactic and it is obviously "we just bum rush into melee and hope our stun lock takes effect". what ends up happening with this they either get steamrolled because they have no ranged units to soften players up from a distance while the melee goes in or you as the player end up getting cheesed to hell and back by stun/knockdown lock or shield/energy drain and this is honestly downright boring.

 

what the infested need more than anything is unit variety and power shift. now most people recognize what power shift is for games (nerf something to buff something else in return to balance it out) and off the bat im going to say stun/knockdown CAN be kept in what the infested do but it CANNOT be in the form of a lock that has to go. some knockdown/stun is okay like the heavy grineer's melee grenade or corpus shockwave moa's but the whole point of the group being stun/knockdown is not okay. trimming some things down can allow new and more interesting units to be introduced into the faction to make up for some of that loss in power and make the experience more engaging and fun.

 

some things that should happen

nerf side:

 

-Chargers lose hit stun on claw attack 

-slightly lower range of Ancient's extending arm attack and make it so it can't go behind/through it (this sometimes happens when you run/roll behind one, you'll see its arm go right through its chest and hit you still)

-Ancient Disruptor no longer steals ALL of your shield/energy will instead only steal HALF of your shield/energy (keeps the threat w/o it being super lame if you get hit once by accident)

 

now the good stuff

The buffs:

 

-slightly increase charger run speed + increase health pool some (makes them like the shock troops of infested and loss of hit stun must be compensated)

-increase the power of Ancient Healer's heal aura some (right now no one notices the heal this ancient is pretty much a dud ATM)

-slightly increase speed of all crawlers to give them little boost (no one really fears them might as well make them faster)

-introduce ranged basic unit that launches organic shards at players (no huge details they just need a basic ranged unit to soften players up for melee and prevent AI box abuse)

-introduce 2 ranged heavy units: one will rapid fire organic shards at range and launch shards in a radius around it when players get into melee other will fire a bio bomb that explodes into flames and does an acid attack that bypasses shield when players get into melee

 

these are just starters and infested have the potential to be the most interesting faction yet it is wasted on a simple melee all day strategy. discuss and if OP is still reading thread give input as well

 

These sound like great ideas. Possibly something to be done about the runners stun from their explosion too, the range is crazy it seems (either that or I am right at the edge and/or lagging or something when it happens). Seems like you can be 10+ feet away and they'll still stun you despite it not seeming like that big of an explosion.The ideas also pull reliance from stunlocking to other mechanics.

 

I actually enjoy fighting corpus or grineer despite the possibility that in a Loki frame I could be mowed down in a second by two moas or something of that sort. Why? Because they don't use cheap mechanics to kill me. Shockwave moas will knock you down, yeah, so will shield lancers, but they are two separate units that will knock you down, not an entire faction of people who smack you in the face. Unless you put yourself in a bad situation with a shockwave moa and you get wrecked, it's pretty much your fault if you die to one of them. As it stands, infested are not that way. All it takes is a charger or two to knock you around and you're done. Sometimes you have entire mobs of them (think angry mobs with pitchforks and torches) spawn and it's incredibly difficult to get away. The overwhelming numbers thing isn't a problem. It's the constant stunlock from every single damn unit they have on top of all the other functions such as poison bypassing shields, disruptors completely wiping out your shields and energy on a touch. Things like that on top of every unit stunlocking does not make a fun, challenging, or rewarding experience.

 

As it stands it's more enjoyable to just rush past infested all together than to play and fight with them because of this whole culmination of things. I'd rather play anything else than infested. This suggests a problem when so many people have a problem with a mechanic like that. It's like fighting games where the AI reads your inputs and reacts accordingly. Or one that doesn't stagger or anything like a normal character and shrugs off damage and stun/staggers even randomly. It's not fun, it's not challenging, and it's not rewarding. It's a cheap and lazy mechanic to artificially inflate the difficulty without adding any real depth or anything to an enemy.

 

Telling people they just need to learn it better or whatever is like telling people "don't get hit" or "don't die" as some form of help. That doesn't change a flawed aspect of a game. Whether you can cope or not is irrelevant. It's flawed, it's lame, it needs something done with it.

[MarcusGraves]

These sound like great ideas. Possibly something to be done about the runners stun from their explosion too, the range is crazy it seems (either that or I am right at the edge and/or lagging or something when it happens). Seems like you can be 10+ feet away and they'll still stun you despite it not seeming like that big of an explosion.The ideas also pull reliance from stunlocking to other mechanics.

 

no its not just you i have the same experiences. one will run up to me, get ready to pop and i do a full dodge roll away only to still get blasted the graphic does not match the real size. i was going to include "slightly lower runner explosion radius" but decided not to for some reason.

[Galiath25]

Well, this topic will go on forever, so I guess my final statement is this.

 

The 3 factions are great as they are, and I would even like to see the infested get buffed (except the disruptor). The real issue here is gear. In an earlier post I stated that once I got my raw dmg mod for my rifle, pluto became a joke. The progression of the players strength is waaaaay off balance. I shouldn't be able to walk through pluto like it's nothing when I haven't even seen 60% of the content before it. Most of you are probably having trouble with this because of a lack of skill or gear. If it's a lack of skill? If the creators want to make an easy mode where people who aren't good at shooters can still enjoy the game but not mix with the normal game, then power to ya. A monster power multiplier like Diablo 3 would be great to that end. All I've seen here is bad players saying it's OP, good players telling them to stop crying, and some inbetween.

 

The only time I ever die to infest now is just when I have 4 revives, I don't care about dying, and the poison ancients in a long level eventually wear down my health. When I first encountered the infested, i would get stunlocked to death just like you guys, and it was frustrating as S#&$. As soon as I had a little better gear? Now they can be ~permastunning me and I can still kill them all without having to resort to a cheap lol abillity nuke. I put the ~ there because I have never ACTUALLY been permastunned. There is always a window for you to do something, even if it is small.

 

Devs, please don't turn infest into corpus/grineer. Because that's basically what people are asking for. They want ALL 3 factions to have pretty much the same mechanics, with a different look. Sorry guys, but that's just stupid.

 

Just because the infested can kill people with what you all consider to be "cheap and simple" mechanics doesn't mean it's bad. I think some people are just frustrated over the fact that they can kill grineer/corpus who are intelligent and diverse, but you can't overcome the mindless zombies that are simple and just rush at you. I can understand that, but I still disagree with it.

 

I don't fully disagree that some of the suggested changes might make them a bit more interesting, but again, we have corpus/grineer. We don't need another faction just like them. AND THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

Edited April 25, 2013 by Galiath25

[Ayraclus]

The stuns are cheap. You have a game with lots of ninja moves, lots of weapons, melee weapons and such.

Yet the only viable strategy against the faction that has the potential to be the most fun of all is "Backpedal while shooting or jump on a box so they don't stunlock you to death"?

[GhettoJesus]

what are you guys smoking? I melee infected up all the time. Even disruptors.

 

Charge attack stun locks them which is ironic.

 

Duel heatswords for the win.

 

As for where the devs should head with infected. Maybe an advanced leaper that actually leaps far and climbs walls.

 

If stunlock is soo bad which it isn't btw then someday I'm sure they'll add shorten/resist stun mod to warframes.

Edited April 25, 2013 by GhettoJesus

[CaligoIllioneus]

I'm also against the stuns and such as a source of difficulty. This isn't because I think the game is too hard, in fact if you read my posts I think it's too easy.

 

The thing is that the current difficulty relies on these "cheap" and frustrating things for challenge, for example a Shield Grineer pancaking you while 3 lancers unloads their clips into you. That's just cheap and frustrating, even if it almost never happens to me because I melee the Shield Grineer and they die in half a second, or I shoot their heads through the visor / their feet. These things do not challenge the player's skill, they take control away from your character, which is bad.

 

Like I said on the difficulty thread, what we need is more enemy abilities that can be dodged or avoided in different ways, and we need these to be the main source of difficulty instead of stuns and hitscan.

[GhettoJesus]

Hmmm also major tip against ancients(which people seem to be waning about). Use sprint jump followed by crouch for a diving kick. Knocks down all ancients for a good 5-6 seconds. Along with melee you can do a double or sometimes triple slide melee attack.  I use the rapid braton smg and my duel heat swords all the time vs infected. TBH I find waves of 5-6 shockwave moa more irratating and deadly if my shields/health arent up when they show up. It's worse with them because they can spawn all around you through those machines aswell as coming thru doors.

Edited April 25, 2013 by GhettoJesus

[neKroMancer]

Hmmm also major tip against ancients(which people seem to be waning about). Use sprint jump followed by crouch for a diving kick. Knocks down all ancients for a good 5-6 seconds. Along with melee you can do a double or sometimes triple slide melee attack.  I use the rapid braton smg and my duel heat swords all the time vs infected. TBH I find waves of 5-6 shockwave moa more irratating and deadly if my shields/health arent up when they show up. It's worse with them because they can spawn all around you through those machines aswell as coming thru doors.

 

The fact that one faction's 'non-elite' troop is more troublesome then another faction's 'Elite' troop is more than enough to show that Infest really is a lacking faction.

 

Problem that appeared to be the most urgent, imo, is the lack of learning curve against Infest. After you know how to play Lares in Mercury - you can play all infest missions, just mod your weapons with proper stuff and wreck everything.

 

Over-reliance of stun mechanic isn't even create difficulty any more. After 200 hours, these space zombies offer no challenge anymore - in fact, they are the easiest among three factions (as long as there is no ancient with sneaky spawning point like a room you just cleared 5 second ago). It hurts the infest, not the player.

[Anelyn]

Now imagine when Corpus will get elite units (maybe miniatures of their Bosses).

 

Regarding the complaints to infested factions. 

 

My idea? Remove stagger from dogs and chargers fine. But change ALL Ancients to pull players like Golem instead of Charge. BRING IT. No more "Hop on the box and laugh in their face". Better S#&amp;&#036; your pants son when you see the ancients :)

 

PS: You are not prepared.

[Ayraclus]

Not prepared to what?

 

To be honest, Ancient feel more like a knockdown machine rather than a healing source.

Someone said it a few posts above: Having control of the avatar taken away from you it's not good design.

Leaving this type of stuns and knock-backs into the game is not funny and should be changed for something more challenging.

Shield lancers and MOAs (Even Rollers) are fine. Try getting on top of a box in a grineer level.

[Guest]

isnt that how the infested are supposed to act?

 

i mean, when one is overwhelmed with zombies, one does not simply walk away unscathed if at all