General Melee Discussion

[Neocyberman]

I don't see a lot of threads up to discuss the need the game has for changes in the existing iteration of the melee system. But I do see a lot of people saying things like:

 

-The melee system is sub par

-Melee system lacks the basic mechanics to fit together the pieces we have been given

-Some people go so far as to say that the current melee system doesn't fit the game

 

But I hardly see discussion about melee in the one forum where it is meant to be discussed. In the hopes that DE is as responsive to their communities issues and feedback as they say they are, I have started this thread.

 

Point of Discussion: Melee 2.0-Ideas and Implementation

 

To start this off I wanted to talk about what intentions the developers might have had with the melee system we have, and where these have fallen apart and why. Now I was on a break when the new melee implementation rolled in, so I did not see the devstreams leading up to its release, what was promised and so on. What I have had to work with is playing around with the melee system myself and trying to find what people have said.

 

As far as I can tell there were a lot of general calls from the community to improve the usage of melee... and they are pretty familiar to what I see often talked about here. The general complaint I'm getting from researching what people were saying is that the melee system was not well integrated into the rest of the gameplay. Why get close when melee is not potent enough to kill in the few strikes you can put out? Why even engage at times against many enemy types when they can absolutely own you because their AI isnt designed to accommodate melee play.

 

If the intention was to create a deeper system that rewards its use. This has not come to fruition.

 

So what can be said about how this system actually plays out? Well in the past few weeks I've been testing it out and comparing the melee options to one another. I'll spare you a lot of the details and get to what I found. 

 

->The combo system is rigid, difficult to break out of due to the queue system underlying its use

->Enemies often react to being hit not by staggering but continuing to shoot

->If an enemy has a melee or slam state you cant stagger them, fine, but you also cant react to them being in the state, because you cant break a combo

->Even on quick moves which only have two hits, unless your weapon is extremely quick, you have to wait till your pre defined combo comes to an end or a gap in order to roll to avoid damage

->This turns all melee into high risk low reward unless you are an incredibly heavy hitting weapon like the dragoon nikana

->Air melee still favours weapons that are extremely fast, while some slow weapons show an intended increase in flight speed, weapons that are in the middle don't benefit and are still very slow and short in distance traveled

->Stances that rate as being rare do not do more damage

 

Its clear that the issues then present in the old system still exist. The stab taken at them with the new implementation of the system has not created the result the developers might have been hoping for. The combo system is quite clumsy at times and investing time into completing a combo whos timing is dependant on an attribute that can be modded and result in more finicky results. 

 

What are your opinions on the system  we are given?

 

What would you like to see changed?

 

Should gameplay change to fit a mix of melee and gunplay or should melee change to fit the gameplay?

[Archistopheles]

I think melee is fine. Polish and directional attacks, as well as new 'coptering and Heavy Weapons buff will come in due time, but the damage numbers are solid.

[Farren]

De wanted to make the system better and fun.

 

They did that.

 

I often find myself preforming on par/outperforming most players with purely melee, regardless of what they have. I certainly don't die as much as other players when enemies become threats. I'm not threatened by any enemy or enemy combo when all I have is a melee weapon. (Includes Stalker, G3, Corrupted Vor) I certainly don't feel like I need guns for anything that doesn't require ranged weapons. (Weakpoint bosses) Melee is the most engaging form of combat in the game by a country mile in my opinion. Etcetera.

 

So yes, I feel it's in a good place.

[DJ_Vauban]

The only issue I have with it that i can think of right now is the fact that enemies still manage to fire their weapon even if you constantly bash their faces in.

[BoomToon43]

charge attacks!

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293722-who-misses-charge-attacks/

[shut]

Things that we need:

- More combos. There are loads of stances in the game that only have the basic EEEE combo and maybe one other one.

- A tweak in combo activations (namely, the "directional combos") so that players who have "Attack in the Direction of the Camera" disabled are not punished harshly. For example, Mercury Vortex from Gleaming Talon and that one combo from Shattering Storm will cause the player to turn directly AWAY from the enemy when activated, and Clashing Forest renders the user completely immobile (and effectively disables all other combos) while they hold W (meaning that they can only use A, S, and D to control their direction), unless this setting is put to its default value. There is no reason for this to be the case, considering that the stances with "directional combos" generally still have slots open for a much less intrusive activation, such as "Hold Block" or "Pause".

- A HUGE buff to some of the forgotten stances out there. Melee is fine when we look at the more useful stances in the game (Iron Phoenix, Crimson Dervish, all of the Nikana stances, Swirling Tiger, Rank 1 Clashing Forest, etc), but some of the combos out there are in a HUGE need of some updating because they simply aren't viable under any circumstance (e.g. Sundering Weave, Crossing Snakes, Shattering Storm, Scythe stances in general, etc). These stances need to be on par with the current "kings of melee 2.0" in terms of potential effectiveness, because picking a Stance should be a question of playstyle, not a question of which stance sucks less.

- Buffs to entire weapon categories that would be useless even despite having good Stances (e.g. virtually all Single Daggers, virtually all Machetes, the Silva&Aegis, the Venka, etc).

Basically, melee and stances should be selectable based on the user's preferences, but the issue is that some of the weapon categories and/or their stances either have terrible stats or are incompatible with the user's camera settings. This needs to change.

Edited October 31, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Yurinaga]

I would very much like to see the Nikana changed so that you draw it and keep it drawn until switching weapons! When I first saw that Excalibur/Nikana clip, I just thought it meant that actual scabbards were being introduced, not this stupid, nonsensical pseudo Iaijutsu! I say stupid and nonsensical because Iaijutsu (quick-draw technique) is meant for defence against surprise attack (in this case, perfect for when you're shooting and you suddenly get attacked up close) and that if you are expecting to fight, you draw your sword and have it ready because Tenno or not, it's always quicker to strike from a ready position with the weapon drawn than from the scabbard! It's even more ridiculous how, when blocking, the sword and scabbard suddenly jerk up into the dual-wield block animation! It's made me no longer want to use it.

Please fix this DE because so far, the Nikana has turned out to be a complete waste of platinum for me.