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If They Didn't Want Input, They Shouldn't Have Made A Section Entitled "improving Warframe"

Furyoushounen

By Furyoushounen,
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Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
Posted (edited)

ITT:

 

Imagination_o_71008.jpg

 

 

Without trying to troll you dear OP, let me ask you on the behalf of the ~vocal minority~ what you are talking about?

See this is a question that goes back on multiple threads and lines, such as:

- Where did you get the idea that you are the majority?

- Where did you get the idea that "they" (to be specified who you are referring to) are a minority?

- Where did you get the idea that the devs are not listening?

- Why do you think that changes will happen in 2 days, just because you stated your opinion on the forums?

- Did it occur to you that maybe you are getting voted down to hell because you are wrong?

- Did you consider that your suggestions could damage other aspects of the game? (Still got no idea what specific suggestions we are talking about)

- Just in general: What the hell are you on about?

 

Without the specifics this topic cannot be discussed. Its just a rage quit topic without any point, meaning, sense to it.

You state nothing in it that could be traced back to an actual argument, but instead the entire wall of text is one single overreaction to god knows what.

If you cant be bothered to present specifics and match arguments to these precedents, then dont even bother creating such a topic. What for? To vent your frustration? Thats fine as long people can make sense of it, but i for one certainly cant cause there is nothing in your post that would even remotely connect to an example as to why your ego is hurt right now and/or whether its justified or not.

 

Im sorry but the developers are doing a great job.

They are a lot more friendly and social towards the playerbase than what, 80% of the current developers and companies in the gaming industry?

To most game designers and developers this is just a job and nothing more. That being said, they wont give a damn about your opinion or hurt epeen. They care about money.

DE however is still a hundred times more social than any company currently on the market.

 

I could go on with ranting, but it would lead nowhere since there is nothing to talk about.

You didnt present any specifics or arguments. You just tossed up a rage/whine post and then "supposedly" left the boat.

Topics like these have no point other than creating drama. It should be closed and/or deleted to hell.

If you wish to talk, edit your post and state your facts. If not then sad to see you go, but good bye and ciao.

Edited by Aerensiniac
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MoonicusMaximus

MoonicusMaximus

Posted
Posted (edited)

If they didn't want input they shouldn't have made a section entitled improve warframe.

 

I agree. And,

 

If people didn't want their input critiqued and commented upon by other players, they shouldn't have posted it in the first place on a public forum.

 

I also agree to.

Edited by MoonicusMaximus
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Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
Posted

What is the topic here?

 

Because, the title's implication is factually and provenly so wrong. DE wants input and reads the forums. They just don't kneejerkingly implement whatever someone says.

 

Havent got the slightest damn clue.

I asked the same thing and got voted down.

Im guessing that this is a topic created and voted on by (quoting op)

 

a small minority of individuals

 

There are no specifics stated in the topic, only one single mass of drama without any connection to problems to be discussed.

Upon asking, im getting voted down, so i have now reported OP for creating a flame/drama thread. I encourage you to do the same cause you can take it for granted that there will be no constructive discussion in here, not to mention a single damn argument.

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MJ12

MJ12

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I actually like this change, for the most part this game is pretty easy and It;s very rare that a mission fails for whatever reason.

Maybe I'm jaded from a year of playing ME3 which was plauged with disconnects from EA's wonderful matchmaking and servers. When you disconnected from ME3 you lost all the consumables you used and all money/XP.

 

I can count the number of times I've been disconnected from this game on one hand, and failures only really happen going for high level defenses. Just have to be more careful about when you decide to abort.

 

Just because another successful game has X mechanic which is bad design (or even is good design for that specific situation) does not mean that said mechanic should be repeated in other games blindly. The ur-example would probably be random roll character generation from Dungeons and Dragons, which 'worked' for a wargame-style dungeon crawl where you were expected to run through a dozen characters a session but was kept for games where you might want to get attached to your character or make a character you wanted to play.

 

Does 'losing all your stuff on failure' make sense for Warframe as a game mechanic? Maybe. That is, however, entirely independent of Mass Effect 3's game design. I'm fairly sure people play ME3MP despite, not because, of how the game can screw you over entirely arbitrarily by bad spawn luck/random disconnects/bad random teams/etc.

 

What is the topic here?

 

Because, the title's implication is factually and provenly so wrong. DE wants input and reads the forums. They just don't kneejerkingly implement whatever someone says.

 

Are you really so sure? There's a lot of extremely wacky rollercoaster balancing going on with enemies and there has been for a while. The only options are either their team is incompetent or they're on a very rapid cycle where they can't really test their changes for very long before pushing them out because of how their agile development works. Now, I don't actually blame them for this because, and this is the big thing, literally nobody has attempted agile game development on this level before outside of random indie games. And the Dwarf Fortress model clearly can't and won't work for a professionally-produced game so everyone here is fumbling around in the dark.

 

Hell, I don't think people have actually tried agile software development on this level. DE isn't just making a game, they're actually developing software in a way that literally no actual software developers have done, let alone game developers. They have a high-level concept and high-level features but their actions as a whole imply they're basically leaving the 'features that should also be included' list blank for people to scribble on. Some of them are good. Some of them are... not always so good.

 

But in the end it's still "they seem to be implementing changes without enough internal feedback time to fine-tune them". And 'kneejerking' is as good a term as any other for the appearance it gives.

Edited by MJ12
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Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
Posted

Are you really so sure? There's a lot of extremely wacky rollercoaster balancing going on with enemies and there has been for a while. The only options are either their team is incompetent or they're on a very rapid cycle where they can't really test their changes for very long before pushing them out because of how their agile development works.

But in the end it's still "they seem to be implementing changes without enough internal feedback time to fine-tune them". And 'kneejerking' is as good a term as any other for the appearance it gives.

 

Just confirming... you do know what an open beta is... right?

You have basically asked them to hire testers just so the other testers get a beta software with less holes in it.

 

If you are this annoyed, then get out and come back in 6 months when the game has evolved past its current issues.

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MJ12

MJ12

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Posted

Just confirming... you do know what an open beta is... right?

You have basically asked them to hire testers just so the other testers get a beta software with less holes in it.

 

If you are this annoyed, then get out and come back in 6 months when the game has evolved past its current issues.

 

Just confirming... you do know what I'm actually saying, right?

 

Because nowhere in that post did I say "they should hire beta testers". What I'm saying is they are in a very rapid development cycle and yes, you can put 'rapidly changing things due to user feedback' as 'kneejerking'. It's a really impolite way to say it but it means the same thing as "they change things people don't like very fast".

 

But hey, reading comprehension is for chumps right? I know you'll disagree with me so I'll just get to the irrefutable point. How about you show where, via quotes, in that post, I said they need to hire beta testers.

 

Oh wait you can't because it doesn't exist. I said they're making changes and additions to the game, sometimes even to core mechanics, without enough time for internal feedback cycles, and this very well can be described as 'kneejerking' because that's exactly what 'kneejerking' is.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knee-jerk

 

Read this related word list. Notice a bunch of them? Like "unplanned", "unrehearsed", "unstudied"? Given the responses to several of the patches it's fairly obvious that these can describe a lot of the changes. Which would make them... 'knee-jerk' changes. Which would make this... 'kneejerking'. Of course, give your previous attempts at reading comprehension I shouldn't be surprised you managed to ignore all this and decided that what I actually meant is that they should hire testers to beta-test the betas before they're released to open beta.

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Gaiters

Gaiters

Posted
Posted (edited)

@OP I'd like to point out that not everyone even comes onto the forums, they instead spend their time playing the game. So even if the majority of forum users don't like something, this =/= a mass exodus of warframe's playerbase.

On the bright side, if everyone on one side of an argument leaves like you say they will this forum will be a happier place.

Edited by ZEDD
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Namacyst

Namacyst

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Just confirming... you do know what I'm actually saying, right?

 

Because nowhere in that post did I say "they should hire beta testers". What I'm saying is they are in a very rapid development cycle and yes, you can put 'rapidly changing things due to user feedback' as 'kneejerking'. It's a really impolite way to say it but it means the same thing as "they change things people don't like very fast".

 

But hey, reading comprehension is for chumps right? I know you'll disagree with me so I'll just get to the irrefutable point. How about you show where, via quotes, in that post, I said they need to hire beta testers.

 

Oh wait you can't because it doesn't exist. I said they're making changes and additions to the game, sometimes even to core mechanics, without enough time for internal feedback cycles, and this very well can be described as 'kneejerking' because that's exactly what 'kneejerking' is.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knee-jerk

 

Read this related word list. Notice a bunch of them? Like "unplanned", "unrehearsed", "unstudied"? Given the responses to several of the patches it's fairly obvious that these can describe a lot of the changes. Which would make them... 'knee-jerk' changes. Which would make this... 'kneejerking'. Of course, give your previous attempts at reading comprehension I shouldn't be surprised you managed to ignore all this and decided that what I actually meant is that they should hire testers to beta-test the betas before they're released to open beta.

 

You forgot to call everyone single one of them "Toxic", MJ ^^

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MJ12

MJ12

Posted
Posted

You forgot to call everyone single one of them "Toxic", MJ ^^

 

Oh look it's Namacyst again. I see you've evolved past the stage of even attempting to pretend you have any ability to defend your viewpoints and are just doing hit-and-run whining.

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Xtorma

Xtorma

Posted
Posted

Why all this hate aren't we all Ninjas/Tenno? This is a coop game this means cooperation. Even if this is the internet people say it's filled with trolls,let's be friendly guys. ^_^

These are discussion forums. Alpha's, whether male or female hate to have thier suggestions recieve anything but goos responses. They all take it personally and that leads to what we see in most every topic where there is controversy. It's always been that way. Seems like it always will be that way.

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Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
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Just confirming... you do know what I'm actually saying, right?

 

Because nowhere in that post did I say "they should hire beta testers". What I'm saying is they are in a very rapid development cycle and yes, you can put 'rapidly changing things due to user feedback' as 'kneejerking'. It's a really impolite way to say it but it means the same thing as "they change things people don't like very fast".

 

But hey, reading comprehension is for chumps right? I know you'll disagree with me so I'll just get to the irrefutable point. How about you show where, via quotes, in that post, I said they need to hire beta testers.

 

I quoted you. Cant do more for you.

You talk about "roller coaster balancing" and "knee-jerking" is implying that you are dissatisfied with the product. On that behalf i simply asked you whether or not you actually know what your role in an open beta is, cause the very notion of your comment undermined the assumption that you do.

 

"But hey, reading comprehension is for chumps right?"

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Xtorma

Xtorma

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Posted

Can one of you chumps explain this to me? I just can't comprehend it. :V

It means that most people's comprehension is directly tied to thier opinion, and anything that does not conform to said opinion is either twisted to conform, or just outright ignored. Probably should have used chimps instead of chumps.

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MJ12

MJ12

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Posted (edited)

I quoted you. Cant do more for you.

You talk about "roller coaster balancing" and "knee-jerking" is implying that you are dissatisfied with the product. On that behalf i simply asked you whether or not you actually know what your role in an open beta is, cause the very notion of your comment undermined the assumption that you do.

 

"But hey, reading comprehension is for chumps right?"

 

I was replying to Ced23Ric's post about how DE doesn't "kneejerkingly implement whatever someone says." I was saying that yes, "kneejerk" is a really impolite way to put it but aptly describes rapid changes that are bounced around all the time. I was saying nothing more, you're just making a strawman. I was pointing out that "yes, there are things that could be described as kneejerk but I prefer to accept that DE is attempting something that gamemakers have never attempted, agile development. And there are some issues with that." But as a whole, I didn't pass judgement on their technique. And as a whole, I think it's a fairly good way of going about things.

 

But okay, let's assume you're right. I'm dissatisfied with the product. I hate the roller-coaster balancing and the kneejerk changes to things. So what would I be asking for to fix this problem? Well the obvious answer would be less drastic balance changes as to remove the rollercoaster, wouldn't it? Not 'hire pre-beta testers'. Something I never said anything about. So why jump to the idea that I "basically asked them to hire testers just so the other testers get a beta software with less holes in it"? When absolutely nothing in that post even hinted at that idea which you just made up at whole cloth.

 

So you know, quoting me in mockery doesn't work because it's abundantly clear you either didn't read the post well enough to understand it, or you did and are making up strawmen to just do a troll job.

Edited by MJ12
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