Make Stalker An Anti-Hero

[S0ulre4per]

Hi.

so idea is to get him....if not in our side, then atleast explain what the hell happened, so he could become an allie or something

 

yea he can come after us when we kill boses, but what i mean is to make him the ''anti-hero''  in the ''story/lore''.

 

yea he is still super $%#@ off because we killed orokin but we bash some sense in him with duels and those fancy flashbacks that happen in all movies with cool anti-heroes.

 

after that he still hates us but he fights ''kinda'' on our side because he sees grineer as a bigger threat

(yea like he would give a dam about degenerate clones, he was training for idk thousands of years i guess)

 

 

 

but he is just such a cool character that i want him to be an anti-hero.....not a D-bag that is just karma after you kill bad guys. he needs more ''in-game story''

 

[Morec0]

Depending on how the Orokin turn out to have been, he very well may BE an anti-hero. The only reason I feel he hunts you down for killing bosses is that those kills are the trail he uses to find you - that and he's not entirely sane.

 

Also, if you look at the Radio Contest line, there's one that implies he's gone after the Corpus or Grineer before as well(I can't remember which). The lights are flickering, then the line "there's no such thing as-" before getting caught off ("No such thing as the Stalker" being the line that the fandom has used to expressly mention the Stalker). So there's something going on there as well.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Morec0

[vaugahn]

Maybe we're the anti-heroes. Maybe the Orokin were bad guys. Or maybe good guys. Or maybe the stalker really is a deranged killer carrying a grudge centuries in the making. 

[Katakuna]

It would take some pretty heavy persuasion to convince him that we're not the bad guys, since we slaughtered his masters right in front of his eyes.

 

I don't think he gives the littlest damn about what's good for the solar system, or who is the bigger threat to who.  He just wants revenge against the Tenno.

[Blakrana]

As far as he's concerned, Stalker is literally the Orokin equivalent of The Punisher.

 

"Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloguing your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent" 

 

Sourced here, last paragraph of his Codex Entry.

 

The Stalker's whole thing is that he remembers. His sole guide through his crusade is the fact that he was there, and he couldn't do anything. He hates himself for his own past weakness, perhaps, as much as he hates the Tenno for their actions. His mental state is famously debated, but the fact is whatever his stance, he has a very simple view of things; that Tenno sin, and he will punish them for it. Bonus in that he also is aware of our lack of memory of all things before now, and that changes nothing beyond perhaps making his job easier; freshly awakened Tenno make easy prey.

 

With respect, it's somewhat dull to think of things in so binary a way as 'Hero, Anti-hero, Villain, Anti-villain'. Good people can do bad things, Bad people can do Good things, but in the end, there's countless ways to look at any one act or situation and then to extrapolate from there.

 

For example:

 

The Lotus is our saviour and guide, granting us a chance to restore the Origin System from the current state of war

 

Or

 

The Lotus is a megalomaniac, with access to the most powerful guerrillas in the Origin System she intends to conquer.

 

Councillor Vay Hek is a monster who has no qualms in what he'll do to further his own goals.

 

Or

 

Councillor Vay Hek is a beacon of hope, showing leadership throughout adversity.

 

Alad V is an unethical and egotistical mad man only intent on serving himself

 

Or

 

Alad V is a brilliant revolutionist who paves the way to greater market growth

 

See how all of these are perfectly possible perspectives? It's all a matter of who you're asking at the time. And should you ask any one person whether they think that their cause is 'Good', then of course they'll say yes. Vay Hek, Alad V, Lotus, Stalker, the Tenno...every single individual will view their ideals and goals as 'Good'. No one outright looks at themselves and says 'I'm Evil!', and when you call out people on their insanities, they'll potentially try and reason with you about it; to them, it makes perfect sense.

 

I think to wit one of the best in game cases for the whole matter of 'perspective' is Sargas Ruk when you fight him, as he queries how we see ourselves; guardians, treasure hunters, or mercenaries taking what they can. I can't help but respect the honourable cyborg after that.

 

Like Vaugahn said above, he may very well already be an anti-hero. He certainly seems to see himself as some manner of Justice at the least.

 

However, so long as we are his victims, we will always view him as a villain.

 

In summary: The setting is far too dark to simply reduce it to a simple equation of who is and is not a 'hero'. The Stalker is as much a hero of the Orokin Empire as he is a Villain to the Tenno, just like all other notable figures in the setting can be seen both ways, depending which side you're on.

 

Happy hunting.

[S0ulre4per]

WE NEED TO FIX ORDIS.....he has memories of ''old war''.....it could help.

[S0ulre4per]

As far as he's concerned, Stalker is literally the Orokin equivalent of The Punisher.

 

"Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloguing your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent" 

 

Sourced here, last paragraph of his Codex Entry.

 

The Stalker's whole thing is that he remembers. His sole guide through his crusade is the fact that he was there, and he couldn't do anything. He hates himself for his own past weakness, perhaps, as much as he hates the Tenno for their actions. His mental state is famously debated, but the fact is whatever his stance, he has a very simple view of things; that Tenno sin, and he will punish them for it. Bonus in that he also is aware of our lack of memory of all things before now, and that changes nothing beyond perhaps making his job easier; freshly awakened Tenno make easy prey.

 

With respect, it's somewhat dull to think of things in so binary a way as 'Hero, Anti-hero, Villain, Anti-villain'. Good people can do bad things, Bad people can do Good things, but in the end, there's countless ways to look at any one act or situation and then to extrapolate from there.

 

For example:

 

The Lotus is our saviour and guide, granting us a chance to restore the Origin System from the current state of war

 

Or

 

The Lotus is a megalomaniac, with access to the most powerful guerrillas in the Origin System she intends to conquer.

 

Councillor Vay Hek is a monster who has no qualms in what he'll do to further his own goals.

 

Or

 

Councillor Vay Hek is a beacon of hope, showing leadership throughout adversity.

 

Alad V is an unethical and egotistical mad man only intent on serving himself

 

Or

 

Alad V is a brilliant revolutionist who paves the way to greater market growth

 

See how all of these are perfectly possible perspectives? It's all a matter of who you're asking at the time. And should you ask any one person whether they think that their cause is 'Good', then of course they'll say yes. Vay Hek, Alad V, Lotus, Stalker, the Tenno...every single individual will view their ideals and goals as 'Good'. No one outright looks at themselves and says 'I'm Evil!', and when you call out people on their insanities, they'll potentially try and reason with you about it; to them, it makes perfect sense.

 

I think to wit one of the best in game cases for the whole matter of 'perspective' is Sargas Ruk when you fight him, as he queries how we see ourselves; guardians, treasure hunters, or mercenaries taking what they can. I can't help but respect the honourable cyborg after that.

 

Like Vaugahn said above, he may very well already be an anti-hero. He certainly seems to see himself as some manner of Justice at the least.

 

However, so long as we are his victims, we will always view him as a villain.

 

In summary: The setting is far too dark to simply reduce it to a simple equation of who is and is not a 'hero'. The Stalker is as much a hero of the Orokin Empire as he is a Villain to the Tenno, just like all other notable figures in the setting can be seen both ways, depending which side you're on.

 

Happy hunting.

well....................that makes sense. we dont know if we are bad guys or good guys if we look fro this point of view.

[0zryel]

First of all I think Skalker NEEDS a Make over, His helmet is awesome but I think his body need to show more *individuality* maybe add some unique with its unique armor pieces that drop for one to built or get as a Bundle in Market? And make his copied powers a bit more unique to what he stand for *The Dark Shadows that always follows in Silence counting our sins, the silent witness that follows us everywhere*. you know to make him more of a Stand alone Warframe, maybe even add a Clan or Syndicate, clan or Alligance Symbol for Teasing lore lovers?

 

 

Well all and all, Stalker could just be a just  *Specter*  Ancient Warframe's left to test us and keep us in check...Nemesis, Colossus, Chroma, Stinger...these where all crude warframes, For all we know we only encounter Stalker but there could be more out there... The Stalker of the Dark Sector game, could have evolve from its first form to this one why not the others... Just like the *First Tenno*...Tenno have evolve since that time...

 

Another less popular theory is that the Orokin hided the truth to the Tenno, making them into Corrupted when they upgraded them into obedience to their Prime Version much like the Neural Sentry controls other factions... Haven't your notices the similarity of the Corrupted that have been implanted with a control device, allowing the "Neural Sentry" of the Orokin Towers to manipulate them. Most Corrupted appear grey and drained of color, except for the golden Orokin control devices on their heads. These devices appear similar to the Orokin material on Frost Prime's helmet. The Neural Sentry also provides the Corrupted with Orokin weapons to aid in the defense of the tower. Much like the Prime Tenno... Maybe that's why the Tenno revel against them, they where being force into service, scary though huh?

 

But in truth, now that the syndicates are here we might yet seen MORE of the story unfold! Specially the fact that the New Loka, Arbiters of Helix and Red Veil uses Infected and Corrupted as their assassin... which bring a lot of question to my Mind...not to mention that maybe Stalker could be a Red Veil Agent, The Arbiters of Helix could be the remaining Orokin... and the New Loka could be something far more than they apear... as I have always wonder WHAT or WHO are the ANCIENTS transform from? Are they the New aquatic Faction we yet to see, the Earth Ocean Abyss are so bast and wide I'm would not be surprise that the Ancients are actually a mutated by the Tenno virus of an aquatic race...waiting to show up in the New Aquatic content...like an Atlantis or something cool like a Naga species with BIO tech weapons evole and manipulated to surbive in the Abyss of waters or the Voids of space, etc... OMG I cant even imagine what the *Sentient* race could be! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! its tooo much possibilities I'M having a LORE DIARRHEA!

 

EHEM* sorry about that... DE don't keep us in suspense keep the story lore Flowing Please!!!!

[JayGideon1]

maybe a little off topic but i never saw Lotus as a malicious entity. They way she talks about Mirage in the Hidden quest shows that she cares for the Tenno. This is again shown in the tutorial quest, where shes relieved that the Tenno is safe again. But i do agree that Stalker needs more, like an event centered around him in which Lotus finally decides its time to stop him or at least inhibit is movement for a while and splash some lines of dialogue from the Stalker himself that adds to the lore

[0zryel]

It is obvious who The Lotus is from what little we are told of the old war.

The Sentients MUST have balance, and one all powerful Orokin Empire is not Balance.

The War went on, the Orokin started to loose, so they built the Warframes, mindless killers who were rejected by the void for their unquestioning insanity.

The Sentients were loosing, so instead of building better weapons, which they probably didn't know how to do, they built The Lotus!

A single Sentient that was hidden on some abandoned, overlooked rock.

From there she inserted herself into the minds of the Tenno, probably by hacking the Orokin communications grid, possibly by using an implant that was fired into them during combat.

She ordered them to kill the Orokin, thus bringing balance to the Solar System.

 

Once that was done, there was a risk that the Tenno might, somewhere in their twisted minds, remember the meaning of loyalty.

Thus she ordered us all into stasis, before we had the chance to comprehend what was going on, and wiped our memories.

 

The Solar System slumbered, gradually rebuilding itself into two equal factions, but they were becoming too strong, too hateful to maintain by intrigue alone.

Thus we are awakened, the same mindless killers that were used to destroy her people, that she then used to restore balance to the universe and that she now uses to maintain that balance.

 

The Lotus is a Sentient... The Last Sentient.

 

P.S.

I can go and hunt down all of the relevant sources if you wish, but it'll take many hours to find them all again.

 

Reference to the Tenno Insanity: Excalibre Codex Entry, Paragraph 1.

 

The real give-away is The Lotus' obsession with maintaining the BALANCE between the Grineer and Corpus Factions.

It also explains her reaction to the infested; they are too virulent to contain as a Third Faction. They spread too quickly and easily to maintain the Sentient's Sacred Balance.

 

 

Personnaly I don't even think that the Stalker is a Single person, I think that he is a Persona taken on by the Last Orokin, the ones who managed to escape to the void while they secretly try to undo The Lotus, to finally end The Old War.

 

Read my above post for details.

 I Like your theories, Warframe lore is so awesome and shrouded in mystery... As por the Stalker I think he belong to an Clan or Syndicate of sorts he mentions he was part of the *Low Guardians*...Maybe they where made as an Elite Team to hunt renege Tenno... I really wish DE Brings the others in the future using the names from the Dark Sectors game like they did with the original Stalker:

 

Howler

Mole

Stinger

Chroma

Colossus

Nemesis

Mezner

 

NOTE: Any Artist out there that can help us create this Concept to add to the Stalker Clan/Synidace Group with these names from Dark Sectors game?

 

Now that the ArchWings, Syndicates is out and soon in the future we will have future underwater content it be great to have these Assassins out there...each with its own way of hunting Tenno... Specially with the Syndicates instead of sending does Eximus, each Syndicate sends a Different assassin contracted from the *Stalker Low Guardian Clan*...And as you encounter and Fight each, getting their codex, it is reveal what you mention earlier...What do you think?

[0zryel]

Not bad at all, although as I would make several alterations.

 

1) The Low Guardians hunt Sinners. They do not care about the word, only Sinners.

Instead of the current system were you get marked by The Stalker, you would get marked by the Low Guardians, thus being attacked by a Random Low Guardian, your list.

Each assassination squad will be equal to yours in size so that if you are in a team of four your whole squad will get attacked by four Low Guardians in a group.

 

2) The Syndicates, just like the Factions have their elite assassins, should have their own;

 

Steel Meridian Assassins: The Rugst Brothers were a small band of elite Grineer soldiers who were initially rejected by the Steel Meridian Leadership on the grounds of extreme brutality in combat. Unperturbed, the Rugst Brother took it upon themselves to prove that they should be in the Steel Meridian. A few days later they returned, carrying between them the head of Councilor Vay Hek.

 

Arbiters of Hexis Assassins: No-one really knows were they come from or who they are, but everyone knows what they call themselves, the Seekers. A group almost religious in their dedication to the truth, the truth of life and death. To find this truth they watch all those who live, and then they discover how they die.

 

Cephalon Suda Assassins: There are always those who cannot be turned by logic, or knowledge, or science or truth. For them I have my own tools, my own servants. What do I call them, you ask; I call them Shadows. What are they, you ask; the things in your shadow. How can my shadow hurt me, you ask; Nanites.

 

The Perrin Sequence Assassins: In order to bring order to these worlds, some must be removed. In order to bring peace to these worlds, some must be sent to their eternal peace. How is this done? Why don't you ask that Proxy on the ceiling?

 

Red Veil Assassins: A purge is only as great as he who do the purging. The Tenno may be great at performing this holy right, but they will never surpass the Disciples.

Think Imperial Guard in Star Wars.

 

New Loka Assassins: You have surely heard of them, the rumors, the legends, the armies gone missing? Something lives in those forgotten Jungles, the jungles that we seek to reclaim. Of course, in order to reclaim the jungle, we first had to tame The Beast.

 

3) An alternative to 2): Have a single pool of assassins for hire that any of anyone will hire at random. More logical but greatly reduces the uniqueness of each Faction and Syndicate.

 Wow that's really cool! Are you sure your not one of DE writers? Hope DE notice this post ideas...and write them down or impliment something similar or even more cooler stuff like this! ^,^

Edited November 12, 2014 by 0zryel