Problem With Walls: Mesa Is Grindwall, Waitwall, Rng Wall

[dashashou]

the really funny thing about this was all these grind / time /wait walls really didn't stop  their max / high mastery ranked players - who like my self nav shared / key shared  and hitched rides , and logged on if our alt accounts  from getting  a full mesa  set in 2-3 days 

 

as for everyone else who isn't  so cynical prepared with   plans , friends ,  clanners  , and alts ( o my )  - wow does DE 's  walling walls  suck for them. 

 

the icing on the cake is that all that work and the mesa is only half realized ,  over rushed , and under balanced frame with skills that mostly don't work and certainly  don't synergize  at all .  

 

So much work for so little reward 

[tseng_]

well, after all this days since the update, i still can't get a single alad v nav coord, in the weekend, i do a single outbreak with alad v nav coord as a reward, but didn't get it, because i run that mission like 5 times, but 2 times was bugged because only grineers/corpus appeared (was survival mission) and don't count as a completed one, the last one i finished the mission but  the % of the node run out and didn't get the reward for 3/3, so yeah is pretty frustrating do this missions,because if you are not fast enough you just don't get the reward because the infestation in the node is over, because people just run again and again the mission for this to finish fast and the get the reward faster, for now i just will not get Mesa until they do something about how to get Mesa.

 

probably DE never will see this topic or get a response to this topic.

Edited December 2, 2014 by tseng_

[Vladokapuh]

People generally have problems getting the systems. I got 10 systems. 5 helmets. No chassis.
Another annoying invincible boss fight, that is also hidden behind waitwall, and then when you finally get there, RNG is there to force you to repeat this all again.
Seriously. Bad. Design. Just bad.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

I think they wanted people to do invasions a bit more so maybe thats why they did that. I would suggest that they change the Navs to drop in then infested invasions instead of the normal ones or just make every infested invasion give out a Nav along with whatever end missions reward Mutagen Mass/Fieldron/ect.

[Xriborg]

And DE ignores their community, again...

 

Think it's time to quit. Not saying I won't come back someday, but I am sick and tired of watching DE make the same short-sighted mistakes over and over again. Really makes their apology for Vivergate meaningless if they're just gonna keep rushing S#&$ out without thinking it through.

[BoomyGordo]

DE, this topic has many views and likes. are you planning to ignore it till it slowly sinks and is forgotten? Im not dropping the subject till i get a repsonse or an offical statment is made on the matter, as it stands im loosing any and all desire i have to invest monetarily in this game and quickly loosing desire to invest my time in it as well

[akira_him]

I am going to have my final and I will have no time to sit in front of the screen and wait for the navs poping up

Fewer people will play Alad V's mission because eventually more and more people get her and I will have much greater difficulty in order to get her

So I gave up, I brought Mesa, if it's DE's plan, fine. I will still playing, but will not pay again until an official and satisfying response.

I know I am not forced to pay, but I felt I was forced, that matters.

It's frustrating, and I realized it is not the DE I known, who cares about player experience.

DE has changed, they started becoming another Perfect World

 

If you are still thinking DE is right and "pay if you don't have time"

remember these words: "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Edited December 4, 2014 by akira_him

[ssfsx17]

Positive things:

- Tactical Alerts

- Mirage quest

- 30 minute survival

- All the little gameplay changes that DE_Glen appears to have made or advocated for

- The reborn DE_Sheldon who likes Tactical Alerts and such

- The Lotus' fight against the launch of Destiny

 

Let's make the acquisition of Mesa more like the other good things.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ssfsx17

[Nemesis101]

This thread reminds me of the Kubrow feedback and how all of that was ignored. The feedback on how poorly Mesa has been implemented will go the same way and DE deserve the backlash and negativity they have generated for themselves for not only controlling how players obtain the Nav Coordinates but also for the most part, dictating when they are obtainable, especially when favouring certain time zones over others.

This has to be one of the worst implementations i have seen in this game to date.. but no doubt the gullible will spend their plat due to their impatients.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Nemesis101

[claihmsolais]

Agreed. The current method of obtaining Mesa is unacceptable. Specifically, this is due to one major factor: the availability of invasions maps. They are generated at times that are inaccessible to some players in certain time zones, which in essence, almost forces them to buy it with platinum or do without the frame.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the grind. I don't mind the timesink. I shouldn't, considering I play EVE Online, and that game is the veritable definition of both a grind- and time-sink. I don't mind. I can log on and grind whenever I've got free time to spare on EVE. However, unlike EVE, if I want to get my hands on the Mesa, I have to continually be available and check Warframe for new invasions, then actually free myself from my current obligations to run said invasions. I have work, which in the past has subsidized Warframe with platinum purchases. I've bought a good number of frames and weapons, because I figured I'd rather spend the platinum than spend time on them, but that was my choice. I could choose whether I wanted to grind for them, or skip the grind and pay for it.

 

Mesa offers no such luxury, because that choice is taken from me by the lack of available invasions to run in my prime time. I'm lucky because I have friends who play Warframe with me who actually are able to farm a few nav coordinates here and there and have been taking me on Mesa runs, but after a while of the tedium of continually checking for Mesa? I've decided to just let the warframe be and not bother with it. Which is a shame, because it's content that's not available to many players.

 

There are some who say that that's fine, suck it up, deal with it. I'm fine with no having Mesa, but it is content that is effectively now hidden behind a paywall. If I could farm for Mesa the same as I would Hydroid? I'd probably still buy it, because Hydroid was a horrible grind, but just the fact that I can't farm for Mesa for me means this is now going a direction I don't like and won't support - hence, my refusal to buy the frame. But ask yourselves this. Today, Mesa is hidden behind a poorly disguised paywall for some players. What's next? Event-only weapon upgrades like another Marelok variant that is only available in EU prime time? Or US prime time? Invasion bosses and further content that's only available in certain time zones?

 

This isn't about entitlement and getting a free ride - trust me, I hear enough of that debate on the EVE forums, and as a long-time EVE player, I'm all for hard work and rewarding a grind. But like EVE, I play Warframe to have fun. There's a reason I no longer fly with large alliances on EVE - it became a second job. The Hydroid grind was like that, and I chose not to do it and instead, I've bought frames and weapons. I have a choice to play it, I have a choice to pay for it or grind it out. That choice is taken away, because there is no realistic way for me to obtain a Mesa with the two to six hours of playtime I have at night each week. Entitlement would be saying, I want the Mesa to be available now, for free, as a reward for running E.Prime. No. I'm fine with the grind. I'm not fine with not being able to grind on my own schedule.

 

We don't want a free ride. We just want to option to realistically be able to obtain content without having to pay for it. Would some of us choose to pay for it, anyway? Certainly. But that choice has been taken away.

 

And that's not okay.

 

Yes, Warframe is free to play. That's a business model they chose. It's free-to-play, not freemium, not VIP access, not subscription. It's not a trial, it's not early access. All content should be available to all players, along with the choice to obtain it via payment or grind.

Edited December 4, 2014 by claihmsolais

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Why did this topic sink so far?  We can't just let this one go guys, do you want DE to do think that this kind of bad design is okay?  Why did they do this?  There's no doubt in my mind that they did this on purpose for something.  If it was just to make us tired of the freaking grind (which I know that was probably part of the reason) or just plain ignorance (which they should not have an excuse for, considering a couple decent quests they have compared to this).  We must fight on so they notice this topic.

[Shizzuie]

The moment that I learned about the concept of getting Mesa, I just bought her.

 

 

Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Resource Key Craft Dump -> Boss Rng -> Repeat

[ClockworkSpectre]

Honestly it still isn't as bad as getting Vauban.  There is more grind, but there are several Nav rewards in invasion nodes per day, and you can key share. 

[Otaiken]

Well, I'm still stuck on single nav. I managed to get 2 missions in today on the nav invasion, but then it disappeared.

 

GG

 

I would just like to say, that I can certainly afford to buy Mesa. I can... but I won't. Because the acquisition method &!$$es me off. I refuse to give in and buy her, out of sheer principle.

 

I realize it doesn't make any difference, but I just want DE to know (like they'll read it lol). I bought frames before when the grind was tough but fair. I don't think this is very fair.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[BoomyGordo]

Well, I'm still stuck on single nav. I managed to get 2 missions in today on the nav invasion, but then it disappeared.

 

GG

 

I would just like to say, that I can certainly afford to buy Mesa. I can... but I won't. Because the acquisition method &!$$es me off. I refuse to give in and buy her, out of sheer principle.

 

I realize it doesn't make any difference, but I just want DE to know (like they'll read it lol). I bought frames before when the grind was tough but fair. I don't think this is very fair.

 

This is one of the most unfair grinds there is isnce it takes half the grind out of the players hands and puts it in the hands of nothing but pure luck. The luck being needed for being on when an invasion starts and then being able to run 3 runs on the node before its finished.

 

I dont mind a grind or massive RNG, ive plaid WoW some of the best items in the game have a 0.5% drop chance from a raid boss that can take you several hours just to get to.. for a 0.5% chance of having the item you want drop.

 

BUT THOSE ITEMS ARE USUSUALLY GOD TIER ITEMS. THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT GRIND OR THEY WOULD BE OP.

 

the boltor prime is arguably the highest DPS weapon currently in game. if that were behind this kind of luck/grind wall then there wouldnt be that much a problem. because its an extreamly powerful weapon. As it is we are currently but through a grinder.

 

we must grind the grinder for a chance to grind another grinder for a chance to grind a third grinder for a chance at a part that we may or may not already have for something that isnt god tier but a side grade that might not even be good.

 

many people enjoy her but have told me shes not worth the effort needed to get her. DE this isnt right. This harkens back to the time when bosses dropped blueprint orbs and they didnt drop them 100% of the time. this is purely unfair grind you are putting us through for something that is not so vastly powerful that it warents this level of grind.

 

Im sorry DE but you are on the verge of loosing another long time supporter and player. IF i wanted this level of grind id play combat arms and only go for HiSec crates as my source of guns, but even those are vastly more farmable than MESA currently is.

Edited December 5, 2014 by --Strider-Hiryu--

[MisterUltimate]

Honestly it still isn't as bad as getting Vauban.  There is more grind, but there are several Nav rewards in invasion nodes per day, and you can key share. 

Honestly, although it took a while to get him, getting Vauban is actually really easy. Yes, you have to be on when the alert pops up, and yes, it's possible to have weeks go by without the part you need popping up. However, no matter how you slice it, when you get down to it, it's three missions and you're done. No more, no less. There is no chance involved. You will run only three missions to get Vauban.

In the time it takes you to run those three missions, it's possible for another player to run hundreds, if not thousands of missions to get Mesa, and still not have her.

So, you have three missions that guarantee a complete Vauban, with the only negative being the wait between missions. Meanwhile, Mesa has that same draw back, plus grinding, timers, and RNG to determine which part you get. Sorry to everyone that made this point, but  no, Vauban is not harder to get by any stretch of the imagination.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Honestly it still isn't as bad as getting Vauban.  There is more grind, but there are several Nav rewards in invasion nodes per day, and you can key share. 

 

At least with Vauban, you're pretty much guaranteed to get the parts after the mission.  With Mesa you have to rely on RNG, waitwalls, and the grind.  If you don't get the part you need, you have to do it all over again.  Also, there seems to be a lot of scamming going on with the key sharing, so it's not the best.  At least with Mirage, you can get the dragon keys easily.

Edited December 5, 2014 by hijinks_the_turtle

[ssfsx17]

The most tragic thing about the Mutalist Alad V coordinates is that everything else in the game was going in a more positive direction, e.g. buying T4 keys from Syndicate stores, the promise of the void part trader (even though I don't expect a ratio of better than 10 parts to 1 that you want), etc.

[Marthrym]

Agreed, this trend is really taking, and it really sucks. With all the people begging for challenge and FAIR fights/shots at new content, what do we get? Cheap, dirty meachanics that take control away from us, both ingame and content wise. It's layer upon layer of pure, UNFAIR randomness.

You know, chance is supposed to be unbiased, FAIR. RNG isn't. Rates are ridiculously low and/or unbalanced, you can get the exact same (crappy) reward 15 times in a row without any diminishing chance so as to provide FAIR chance at rarer (better) rewards, and the worst part is, it's not even FUN. The single, most important, VITAL thing, FUN, is steadily being washed away, diluted by UNFAIR systems upon which DE builds, and builds, and builds.

I really like this game (and the beautiful people who made it), that's why I'm &!$$ed, and also worried now, because it started taking a VERY dangerous, sinuous road, with all lights out and no brakes, and the people steering the whole thing are going blind and deaf.

 

Too many metaphors maybe...^^'

Edited December 5, 2014 by Marthrym

[Xriborg]

There's no way DE didn't see the many, many threads that got posted on this topic. Their silence is your answer.

 

Their going to say nothing, ignore all the feedback, and keep shoveling out new S#&$ty broken content to try and distract you. Why? Because this bad design is making them more money.

 

I gave up. DE isn't worth the breath. Do what I did and go play something else. There are so many other games out there that don't require us to type out an essay every week about how DE screwed up this time. There are so many other games out there that don't have endless mountains of bugs. There are so many other games on there that don't require constant feedback. There are other developers out there that can actually design games well, and do it the first time without having a 2.0 or 3.0 overhaul of every core system in the game.

 

Seriously, just leave. I haven't logged into the game in awhile. It's quite a freeing feeling to leave this bullS#&$ behind.

[BoomyGordo]

There's no way DE didn't see the many, many threads that got posted on this topic. Their silence is your answer.

 

Their going to say nothing, ignore all the feedback, and keep shoveling out new S#&$ty broken content to try and distract you. Why? Because this bad design is making them more money.

 

I gave up. DE isn't worth the breath. Do what I did and go play something else. There are so many other games out there that don't require us to type out an essay every week about how DE screwed up this time. There are so many other games out there that don't have endless mountains of bugs. There are so many other games on there that don't require constant feedback. There are other developers out there that can actually design games well, and do it the first time without having a 2.0 or 3.0 overhaul of every core system in the game.

 

Seriously, just leave. I haven't logged into the game in awhile. It's quite a freeing feeling to leave this bullS#&$ behind.

 

I enjoy the game too much to let it go downhill without a bloody fight from me. If you gave up then thats on you but i wont give up till this game dies

[Innocent_Flower]

The moment that I learned about the concept of getting Mesa, I just bought her.

 

 

Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Alert Rng -> 3x Rush Farm -> Resource Key Craft Dump -> Boss Rng -> Repeat

Your reasoning is understandable; but buying her is essentially supporting the bullS#&$. 

[dashashou]

Your reasoning is understandable; but buying her is essentially supporting the bullS#&$. 

 

i believe it's called voting with your wallet  and buying her is tantamount  to  supporting  higher and higher grind walls 

 

the state  of the state is that  DE put profit before their players and alot of people saw the huge grind wall and just bought her , my worst if wiser self wonders -  will they do this again ?  

Edited December 6, 2014 by Ravel7

[hijinks_the_turtle]

I enjoy the game too much to let it go downhill without a bloody fight from me. If you gave up then thats on you but i wont give up till this game dies

 

Pretty much this, however to put up with anymore of this kind of vile insult to quests..... I'd probably do the same.  Hell, even generic MMO quests are more bearable than Mesa's quest, and those are the lowest of the low to me-- until now.  That says something.

Edited December 6, 2014 by hijinks_the_turtle

[mrmburns]

I guess I won't be getting Mesa unless changes are made. Either make Mutalist Nav Coordinates easier to get or make the blueprints not random drops.