Problem With Walls: Mesa Is Grindwall, Waitwall, Rng Wall

[Ishki88]

AGREE with everything....i feel little bad though because I bought her with a 25 dollar gift card plus that black Friday plat deal....

Just for all my conscious and aware warframe players...i will grind mesa parts after I get this dang Perrin weapon

[DoomFruit]

After having not touched Warframe since the Depths of the Void RNG-fest, I thought I'd check in on the forums and see if it's gotten any better after 6 months.

Nope.

What happened, DE? Where did it all go wrong?

Edited December 8, 2014 by DoomFruit

[TheDoctah]

After having not touched Warframe since the Depths of the Void RNG-fest, I thought I'd check in on the forums and see if it's gotten any better after 6 months.

Nope.

What happened, DE? Where did it all go wrong?

I know that feeling. :/ I'm pretty much only on the forums now until DE does refinement and not just lazy rng grind walls. Such a shame too, this game looks so beautiful! I find myself saying the same thing the first month I started playing. " It has potential! It's could be something great" but I think I was sucked in by the art. Such a shame too, feel like the talents of the art team is wasted on this gameplay.

[mrmburns]

Serious question, how often does the mutalist nav coordinate invasions occur? I finally got a day off first time in a while and I haven't seen any yet.

[BoomyGordo]

Serious question, how often does the mutalist nav coordinate invasions occur? I finally got a day off first time in a while and I haven't seen any yet.

 

not often enough. i still have yet to aquire even a single nav cord, and trade channel only sells them for 20p each. Recruiting people mostly try t0o get me to play pat for them to invite me to the party for the mission.. this whole thing is freaking rediculous

[IamLockeJaw]

No. Mesa is a powerful frame, and the work you put in to get her is balanced around the roflwaffle damage you do once you have her.  Also, your rage post missed one key factor: key shares.  There are always keyshares up in recruiting, so your 1 key gets 4 rolls.  Get lucky (luck some punks did on my second key share) and boom, Mesa in one share. 

So, to reiterate. No. Just no.  You can pay plat if you don't want to grind. 

[Twilight053]

11 pages later and no response.

 

I knew DE only wants money from us, they'll never fix this.

[BoomyGordo]

No. Mesa is a powerful frame, and the work you put in to get her is balanced around the roflwaffle damage you do once you have her.  Also, your rage post missed one key factor: key shares.  There are always keyshares up in recruiting, so your 1 key gets 4 rolls.  Get lucky (luck some punks did on my second key share) and boom, Mesa in one share. 

So, to reiterate. No. Just no.  You can pay plat if you don't want to grind. 

 

thats nice and all but keyshare works on the principle of you sharing your key with 4 other people. meaning you still have to be lucky enough to get a key. idk about anyone else but i personally cant be on long hours every day of the week and as such i have yet to get even a single nav cord. the entire post is about how unfair it is that they are essentially putting up this massive wall you have to climb and then saying "or you can just buy her"

11 pages later and no response.

 

I knew DE only wants money from us, they'll never fix this.

 

i hate to say it but im slowly starting to feel this is the case. its turning into a waiting game, seeing how long they can ignore us before we give up and put up with it

[Innocent_Flower]

Thing is, when I've got 426262 chassis and helmets, Buying the frame outright just seems to entirely invalidate my efforts. 

[GeoffFromAccounting]

No. Mesa is a powerful frame, and the work you put in to get her is balanced around the roflwaffle damage you do once you have her.  Also, your rage post missed one key factor: key shares.  There are always keyshares up in recruiting, so your 1 key gets 4 rolls.  Get lucky (luck some punks did on my second key share) and boom, Mesa in one share. 

So, to reiterate. No. Just no.  You can pay plat if you don't want to grind. 

 

plat should not be universal solution, there's a difference with "paying for convinence" and "paying with money instead of your soul" and the Mesa grind is the latter and that is just unnaceptable

 

just because there are band-aid fixes to the grind does not mean it shouldn't be fixed, and the fact that you have to keyshare to make the grind-wait wall hybrid managable screams "there's a problem that needs fixing"

Edited December 9, 2014 by Ninjaboy00

[MaxiTB]

I totally agree. This thing is straight out of the book "What not to do when you design a game" or "What to do to make people buy stuff in your shop".

 

Short term it might work, but more and more people are getting sick of that multiple wall design; especially those with actual money. I had two times the chance to do the coordinate missions - cause I have a job. I simply don't have the luxury to jump into the game when the mission is available for an hour tops.

 

I never had a problem with the outrageous prices of weapons/frames cause I believe it's a good way to reward people actually playing the game. But this is getting way to far. You can't sell your stuff for the amount of money I get a non-discounted full release indie game on steam AND basically force the players to buy it. Everyone will just come sooner or later to the realization that it's designed like a scam or cult.

 

Personally I think the Mesa frame was one of the poorest missions yet. No new mechanics, just poor grinding old missions (beside the half-inspired boss fight).

 

What I would like to see is:

- New mission types that actually reward underused elements like stealth, wall running and multi-staged objectives.

- Staged boss fights like Lepathis but more with a focus on Warframe abilities to defeat him instead of simple weak-spots and DPS races.

- 2x the rooms for existing tile sets because it's getting old.

- Better drop mechanics that actually focuses on mods/resources you lack so you don't have the feel 99% of the loot is pointless/vendor trash.

- Quests with actual character interactions (can be in-game NPCs that just disappear afterwards and don't interrupt the gameplay itself) instead of simple messages.

 

Sadly a lot resources were wasted (personal opinion) on another grind time sink called Archwing, which became boring after like 10 mission shooting the same enemies in a simplified environment (no wall running, no stealth, heck the worst enemy are invisible walls) instead on focusing on improving the core game with new mechanics.

 

But eh, that's all a personal wish-list, I'm pretty sure there are a few players out there disagreeing with me completely.

 

//Edit:

Is it just me, or was wall running the last major mechanics change (not counting melee 2.0) to the core game ?

We have the design council, why not collect some ideas there instead of voting for the prettiest helmet ?

Edited December 9, 2014 by MaxiTB

[BoomyGordo]

We have the design council, why not collect some ideas there instead of voting for the prettiest helmet ?

 

but this is Team Fortress 2 Warframe.. HATS MATTER!

[Makya]

What I would like to see is:

- New mission types that actually reward underused elements like stealth, wall running and multi-staged objectives.

- Staged boss fights like Lepathis but more with a focus on Warframe abilities to defeat him instead of simple weak-spots and DPS races.

- 2x the rooms for existing tile sets because it's getting old.

- Better drop mechanics that actually focuses on mods/resources you lack so you don't have the feel 99% of the loot is pointless/vendor trash.

- Quests with actual character interactions (can be in-game NPCs that just disappear afterwards and don't interrupt the gameplay itself) instead of simple messages.

1) Aren't they working on a stealth overhaul already?

2) Focus on using warframe abilities.. Such as what? Which frames? Can you give me an example of what you are asking for?

3) Didn't they JUST make a new tileset this update?

4) Drops are universal ATM, as for mods, wouldn't it be easy to cheat the system if there was a focus on mods to trade off to a friend and keep the least amount of a certain mob to farm it easier than others could if the drops were than client side(sounds like this would open up so many cheaty ways of getting mods)

5) You mean like the time they had Darvo for a while or did you mean different ways?

[Innocent_Flower]

- Don't reward stealth or wall running in mission types. Cause that usualy suggests players will be punished for not using stealth: And with four player co-op stealth is generally pretty hard to do.  (also it's the future and they all probably have advanced technology to detect tenno in their ships and bases

 

Staged boss fights? I Think they should put more effort into working on the Common enemy rather than a new, one mission (likely hidden behind grind) 

 

x2 rooms for existing tilesets? Oh yes. But I also think they could explore methods to make the same rooms different (different lighting, randomized props) 

 

Sure, But that'd take only minutes of dev time. 

 

Nah, I hate characters. 

 

 

 

ON TOPIC: 

 

Did anyone try that nav mission that was on an hour ago? 

 

Mobile defence is an awful gamemode for invasions, especialy on the grineer asteroid tileset WHERE IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME @(*()$ TILE

 

"DO THE LEFT PART. DO THE IDENTICAL RIGHT PART. THERE'S AN OROKIN ARTIFACT IN THE MIDDLE: SURPRISE FOR THE THIRD TIME!!! 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Crymic]

I don't see any problem with the current way to get Mesa. Just need to be patient, it's all. If you are impatient, you can buy it from the market.

[MaxiTB]

1) Aren't they working on a stealth overhaul already?

2) Focus on using warframe abilities.. Such as what? Which frames? Can you give me an example of what you are asking for?

3) Didn't they JUST make a new tileset this update?

4) Drops are universal ATM, as for mods, wouldn't it be easy to cheat the system if there was a focus on mods to trade off to a friend and keep the least amount of a certain mob to farm it easier than others could if the drops were than client side(sounds like this would open up so many cheaty ways of getting mods)

5) You mean like the time they had Darvo for a while or did you mean different ways?

 

1) You mean like ever ? Was delayed for melee 2.0 ... was delayed for archwing ... will be delayed for next grind feature I'm afraid.

 

2) I donno, boss with adds, have to cc them or they will escalate the fight in some way. Something more creative than shoot spot + wait till timer is over and you can shoot spot again.

 

3) More rooms per tileset because you have to play on those old ones too.

 

4) Warframe is a single player PvE game; cheats are irrelevant from a gameplay perspective - I dun care if the guy next door is cheating cause it doesn't effect the gameplay after they finally implement a proper host system. Grinding involves no skill, it's factory work - and with no skill involved, cheating can't be no problem by definition. So let those cheat who don't care, if you can actually select to not play with them, no problem.

 

5) Lep is a boss where stuff happens and not everything is static. Alad V was nice too with the doggy mechanic (while the environment was a step back again). More stuff like that, but on a greater scale and packed into a quest system. Go enter the ship, plant a bomb, get the hostage (which actually doesnt suicide if you get it a gun), mini-boss drops appears and turns out he rigged the room in some way, exit. Current mission types beside excavation are so casual after a while, it's like playing tic-tac-toe.

[BloodCarnival]

I thought I would suffer the fate of this horrid grind, but I got all three parts on my first three run! XD Super happy.

[mrmburns]

Finally got the blueprints I need today due to the extra invasions and using keyshare and some luck. Should be OK as long as they keep a couple of invasions for mutalist nav coordinates a day going.

[Innocent_Flower]

Got the final part of mesa

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

 

The grind wasn't over. I had to look for argon. 

[omegaproject29]

chasis chasis chasis its all i feel all i hear and its all i get. at this point its all i want

[tseng_]

this topic sink too much, i still hope that DE give a reply to this topic, but probably will never happen

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Why do I feel like they are trying to play the waiting game on us with this?  There's no way they haven't seen this thread, why haven't they acknowledged this thread?

[MaxiTB]

Why do I feel like they are trying to play the waiting game on us with this?  There's no way they haven't seen this thread, why haven't they acknowledged this thread?

 

Why should the bother ? :)

It's not like it cost them any money not responding and those new pay walls surely make the new investors happy.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Why should the bother ? :)

It's not like it cost them any money not responding and those new pay walls surely make the new investors happy.

 

Sure, in the short term.  Think for the long road ahead.  People who resent this kind of stuff will remember it and not forget.  It will build up every time DE pulls this kind of garbage.  The people who pay cash a lot to skip the grind don't usually see how bad the grind is.  The ones who do, will start leaving in small trickles if this keeps up.  (mostly the casuals or the tired vets or etc.)  Sure, a trickle of players will leave each time this happens... Not much right?

 

However, those people make up a lot of the playerbase.  Those are the guys who will occasionally put in $5-20 dollars into the game.  It might not seem like a lot, but multiply that by 10,000 or so, and it adds up quickly.  If DE starts leaning on this problematic RNG wait and grind wall a lot more, things will start to burst from the seams.

 

I love this game, but this.....this just makes me sick.  I feel less sure if I spent my money right on DE thanks to Vivergate, half-baked mechanics, almost no testing on weapons and mods, Syndicates being ruined by being the blatant grind wall (with crappy balancing on the rewards, 'sacrifices') it is, etc.  This Mesa quest thing is nearly the last straw for me.  I want to spend my money to support DE, but if they keep this up, I might as well not buy anything or even leave if it gets even worse.

Edited December 13, 2014 by hijinks_the_turtle

[TheDoctah]

Sure, in the short term.  Think for the long road ahead.  People who resent this kind of stuff will remember it and not forget.  It will build up every time DE pulls this kind of garbage.  The people who pay cash a lot to skip the grind don't usually see how bad the grind is.  The ones who do, will start leaving in small trickles if this keeps up.  (mostly the casuals or the tired vets or etc.)  Sure, a trickle of players will leave each time this happens... Not much right?

 

However, those people make up a lot of the playerbase.  Those are the guys who will occasionally put in $5-20 dollars into the game.  It might not seem like a lot, but multiply that by 10,000 or so, and it adds up quickly.  If DE starts leaning on this problematic RNG wait and grind wall a lot more, things will start to burst from the seams.

 

I love this game, but this.....this just makes me sick.  I feel less sure if I spent my money right on DE thanks to Vivergate, half-baked mechanics, almost no testing on weapons and mods, Syndicates being ruined by being the blatant grind wall (with crappy balancing on the rewards, 'sacrifices') it is, etc.  This Mesa quest thing is nearly the last straw for me.  I want to spend my money to support DE, but if they keep this up, I might as well not buy anything or even leave if it gets even worse.

I have the feeling of regret too, as far as spending my money. For all the same reasons you just posted. I would happily give up my founder status and all the things that comes with it if it meant getting my money back... but I know that's not happening. So I just don't spend money on them anymore, I need to see things go in the right direction for a couple months before I even start to think about investing money or time into this game again.