Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[GTG3000]

I remember those times, we were so innocent back then

 

We trusted you, DE! How could you take our hopes and crush them like this!

[Sirabot]

First of all, remove damage drop off as it is a terrible cancer that has been killing shotguns for years, to the point that people actually think that this is how shotguns work. There is nothing fun about doing no damage to something within spitting range.

Secondly, the best way to "balance" the Hek would be to make it fit its role better. We already have the Bronco as the extreme close range high damage sawn-off hand cannon, the Strun as the low-mid range double-barreled super shotgun, and the Boar as the low-mid range automatic DPS machine. What is needed is a mid-long range economy shotgun (classic Doom shotgun), that is what the Hek is supposed to be. The problem is that a fully modded Hek would keep the reliability of its role while having the absurd damage of the super shotgun role. So then the solution would obviously be to reduce the Hek's damage, but then the problem is that it is too weak unless fully modded. So then, Why not try reducing shotgun mods a bit, primarily multi-shot as this is what truly makes the Hek such an outstanding weapon, while improving the Boar and Strun just a bit to compensate?

There are many ways you could go about balancing these weapons, including doing nothing to them and improving alternative weapons (Snipetron!), but the only thing that is absolutely 100% UNACCEPTABLE is causing rounds to fade into the void after a few meters like every other terrible modern shooter.

This, all of this.

[iamLoveless]

Hah... Remember back when the Grakata came out people said: If you mod the crap out of it it is good, and it doesn't matter because you can do that with any gun? Now that argument is untrue Shotguns like the Hek is pretty useless at "Mid-Range" (My definition of mid range) regardless of what mods you got. My "decently" modded Hek take 2-3 shots to kill a lvl 6 Grineer at "mid-range", because the pellets each do 1 damage. My hek has +75% AP +75 damage +45% Fire, and +45% Electric so it's not modded like crazy just ok.

 

On the bright side the Bronco seems to be not effected or barley effected at all. It stinks at long range anyways (Even says so on the description) so it doesn't need a nerf. From my few tests the Bronco can do as much/more damage as the Hek at long range assuming the pellets actually hits the target of course. Mods on my bronco is +20% AP +80% damage +30% Cold, and +45% Fire so it's not uber modded either.

The Bronco was never good at range, it's spread never allowed for "shotgun sniping".

[Venarge]

Oh and making the Glaive BP an alert award is horse S#&$.

 

You #*($%%@ up.

 

[BlackCat83]

I have had absolutely zero issues with my hek. First I thought the damage was butchered before I upgraded my mods. After I upgraded them the hek is one of the best weapons for damage, only second to the paris. Paris and hek are for separate play styles, one for the mid to long range sniper type and the other for the short range zerg type.

 

"Choose the weapon that suits your play style." If you want to snipe, why would you get a shotgun in the first place?

 

Been playing on Pluto recently, HEK takes 2-3 shots for normal mobs on the body, 1-2 for head shots. At a range of 50-80 meters (game measurement) it would take between 9 and 12 shots. The mods I use are a 95% damage mod, a 75% fire mod, a 75% electricity mod, and a clip mod to extend the ammo count to 6.

 

Headshots up close and personal are devastating, like any shotgun should be. The hek is properly represents shotguns, in the game, in its current form. There are no issues with it you just need to mod your gear, and hold right mouse button. Headshots on level 35-38 mobs is a 1 to 2 hit kill depending on my 'personal' accuracy and if my shots hit. Its all about YOUR AIM & how you MOD YOUR GEAR. Right mouse button is the best friend you will ever have in game, USE IT! Level 32 Grineer Heavy Gunners take 4 headshots to kill, which means its not a bad gun at all. Sure its most of a clip (a full clip if you dont have the proper mod) but its still devastating.

 

The paris is a 1-2 hit kill when fully upgraded, so the hek is not far off. Also, remember to keep in mind my mods are not top of the line, if I were to fully upgrade it might even match the paris just faster firing rate and no charge up time plus plentiful ammo.

 

Right now there are no issues with the HEK and it can out damage almost everything but the Paris. If you haven't modded your gear, you cant aim, or you are lagging out the yin yang of course it will suck, you will be like a storm trooper who cant hit the broad side of a barn.

 

Saying the hek isnt good anymore is saying "I bought a shotgun to snipe" or "I don't know how to upgrade my mods properly..."

[Amistyrja]

I didn't want a Hek so I could snipe. I wanted a Hek so I could defend myself.

 

 

 

I thought it was supposed to be a gun that was 'efficient at medium range'. Maybe the damage falloff was needed, but it starts at 10m? Now I'm grateful I was still short on a few more alloy plates when I hit Rank 4 when the update came.

[GTG3000]

I have had absolutely zero issues with my hek. First I thought the damage was butchered before I upgraded my mods. After I upgraded them the hek is one of the best weapons for damage, only second to the paris. Paris and hek are for separate play styles, one for the mid to long range sniper type and the other for the short range zerg type.

 

"Choose the weapon that suits your play style." If you want to snipe, why would you get a shotgun in the first place?

 

Been playing on Pluto recently, HEK takes 2-3 shots for normal mobs on the body, 1-2 for head shots. At a range of 50-80 meters (game measurement) it would take between 9 and 12 shots. The mods I use are a 95% damage mod, a 75% fire mod, a 75% electricity mod, and a clip mod to extend the ammo count to 6.

 

Headshots up close and personal are devastating, like any shotgun should be. The hek is properly represents shotguns, in the game, in its current form. There are no issues with it you just need to mod your gear, and hold right mouse button. Headshots on level 35-38 mobs is a 1 to 2 hit kill depending on my 'personal' accuracy and if my shots hit. Its all about YOUR AIM & how you MOD YOUR GEAR. Right mouse button is the best friend you will ever have in game, USE IT! Level 32 Grineer Heavy Gunners take 4 headshots to kill, which means its not a bad gun at all. Sure its most of a clip (a full clip if you dont have the proper mod) but its still devastating.

 

The paris is a 1-2 hit kill when fully upgraded, so the hek is not far off. Also, remember to keep in mind my mods are not top of the line, if I were to fully upgrade it might even match the paris just faster firing rate and no charge up time plus plentiful ammo.

 

Right now there are no issues with the HEK and it can out damage almost everything but the Paris. If you haven't modded your gear, you cant aim, or you are lagging out the yin yang of course it will suck, you will be like a storm trooper who cant hit the broad side of a barn.

 

Saying the hek isnt good anymore is saying "I bought a shotgun to snipe" or "I don't know how to upgrade my mods properly..."

 

Sorry, I can't hear you behind all the cottoncandy my shotgun is spitting out now. Maybe sniping with a shotgun was wrong, but I wouldn't call shooting across the room 'sniping'. The thing is - Hek was AWESOME, and that's why people used it. That's why it was quite fitting as a reward for getting a fourth level in mastery. While this game sure shouldn't be a point and click adventure, hek was a refreshing, unique and, most of all, a very effective weapon, and nerfing it down with a range limit is about the second bad thing they could do, after erasing the shotguns from the game completely. It's quite funny though, that with glaive introduced, Hek, with it's "medium range effectiveness", has smaller effective range than melee-slot weapon. And no kind of mods can fix it to work where it is supposed to (hint, it's not Vor farming). 

 

It was already said in this thread that the fix should have centered more around shotgun mods, that can give an insane damage boost, instead of turning shotguns into confetty spitters. Too bad DE doesn't think we deserve some sort of a feedback on all this. I guess they don't care about their player base THAT much.

[iamLoveless]

Sorry, I can't hear you behind all the cottoncandy my shotgun is spitting out now. Maybe sniping with a shotgun was wrong, but I wouldn't call shooting across the room 'sniping'. The thing is - Hek was AWESOME, and that's why people used it. That's why it was quite fitting as a reward for getting a fourth level in mastery. While this game sure shouldn't be a point and click adventure, hek was a refreshing, unique and, most of all, a very effective weapon, and nerfing it down with a range limit is about the second bad thing they could do, after erasing the shotguns from the game completely. It's quite funny though, that with glaive introduced, Hek, with it's "medium range effectiveness", has smaller effective range than melee-slot weapon. And no kind of mods can fix it to work where it is supposed to (hint, it's not Vor farming). 

 

It was already said in this thread that the fix should have centered more around shotgun mods, that can give an insane damage boost, instead of turning shotguns into confetty spitters. Too bad DE doesn't think we deserve some sort of a feedback on all this. I guess they don't care about their player base THAT much.

Well, they DID just release a hyped weapon for $10 with no way to get it so far other than to blow money on it. I'd say that DE aren't the caring types.

[White_Raven]

Shotgun is for close combat, not long range. I can't understand why so many people rage about this.

[Klaww]

You can get the blueprint from alert missions to make the new weapon. 

[Amistyrja]

Shotgun is for close combat, not long range. I can't understand why so many people rage about this.

The Hek is described as being 'efficient at medium range'. And it looks like it isn't now. That's why.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Amistyrja

[GTG3000]

Well, they DID just release a hyped weapon for $10 with no way to get it so far other than to blow money on it. I'd say that DE aren't the caring types.

You can get the blueprint from alert missions to make the new weapon.

Yeah. But I didn't notice a special alert going out. Did you? Not to mention that as of now, the 'hyped weapon for $10' is quite buggy and hard to use with all the bouncing (if awesome when it actually works).

Edited April 28, 2013 by GTG3000

[Klaww]

Im not sure why it would have to be a special alert, it should be like all the rest atleast from what the game devs said. As far as how buggy it is I do not doubt that, this probably was one of the worst patches they ever did.

[Waswat]

Shotgun is for close combat, not long range. I can't understand why so many people rage about this.

Sorry but did you even read any of the posts before posting that  you don't understand why people are raging (or rather, upset)?

Edited April 28, 2013 by Waswat

[MoonicusMaximus]

Sorry but did you even read any of the posts before posting that  you don't understand why people are raging (or rather, upset)?

 

How they are upset that their broken weapon class got fixed? I think everybody on the board has heard it by now.

[Effusion-]

How they are upset that their broken weapon class got fixed? I think everybody on the board has heard it by now.

Let me summarize it for you in haiku.

 

Shotguns were too good,

but now they are terrible.

Keep working on it.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Effusion-

[Amistyrja]

How they are upset that their broken weapon class got fixed? I think everybody on the board has heard it by now.

That's not a fix that's a nerf. A nerf that apparently did not fix the Hek(though it was probably intended to).

[VScipii26]

The numbers need to be reworked, is all. I agree that falloff was necessary, but it falls off TOO quickly.
The distance between two doors shouldn't make my Strun do a fraction of the damage. It makes it unviable for open areas or really anything with a corridor longer than a few meters.
I know shotguns are close range, but when on advertises itself as a mid-range shotgun, I think it should live up to that.

[thefnordest]

Shotgun is for close combat, not long range. I can't understand why so many people rage about this.

CoD pls

[Mullly]

Yes, it might be disappointing.

But bear in mind that the Devs talked about balancing weapons. If the Hek is so overpowered, the other weapons will be viewed upon as 'useless'. 

Furthermore, this change is realistic. Shotguns are supposed to be effective in short range, not long range. If not, what are the snipers for? You can rage all you want, but dont take it out on the Devs. 

 

P.S. I have a hek and its supercharged too. 

Realism in a futuristic space game where you play as a space ninja. Icic, because with advance technology you couldn't focus the spread and effective range of shot guns either.

[GTG3000]

Im not sure why it would have to be a special alert, it should be like all the rest atleast from what the game devs said. As far as how buggy it is I do not doubt that, this probably was one of the worst patches they ever did.

 

Well, mostly because this is THE glaive, and I imagine the devs themselves knew, what a backlash they'll get for such a patch. I mean, I would know that, but I'm not a game developer. 

 

 

 

The numbers need to be reworked, is all. I agree that falloff was necessary, but it falls off TOO quickly.

The distance between two doors shouldn't make my Strun do a fraction of the damage. It makes it unviable for open areas or really anything with a corridor longer than a few meters.

I know shotguns are close range, but when on advertises itself as a mid-range shotgun, I think it should live up to that.

 

I think it would be much better if there was no falloff at all. But I guess it's easier than tweaking everything to be in balance.

[DryRoastedLemon]

I can't believe what's going on in this thread, and I'm mainly pointing at the people who think that what happened to the HEK (and all other shotguns) is justified because 25+ meters is apparently sniper range. This is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. As was said by someone yesterday, real shotguns are actually used to hunt birds and, depending on the kind of pellets you're using, can be effective up to 300 meter range. Now of course we're not necessarily going for realism in a space ninja game, but we're also not going for the exact opposite. At the moment the HEK is just a really dumb weapon. It is really, really strange. For me it is actually a case of realism, but I'll explain that in a bit.

 

I have a rank 30 HEK with several maxed out damage mods, so I went to play some levels of Mercury and Venus to see how terrible this nerf was. If the nerf would show its face in Mercury, you just know it's going to be worse in higher levels. I found out that at medium range I sometimes couldn't one-shot guys on Mercury. On Mercury. Heck, to destroy an explosive barrel I sometimes had to shoot three times. But you know what? What really makes this nerf stupid is not the decrease in damage output. It's in the mechanics, and that's where realism comes in.

 

You see, every pellet actually makes contact. Every target gets blasted with HEK pellets, but for some reason they just lose their potency at a certain range. This just blows my mind. It's this mechanic which makes this nerf so mindblowingly bad. At the moment you can shoot someone in the head with 100% accuracy (that is, have their face blasted with HEK pellets), but it doing almost no damage at all.

 

I can understand that the HEK needed a nerf, but it didn't need to become a... What, a clown of a weapon. Shotguns lose their effectiveness because of increasing spread, not because the pellets magically turning into flakes of styrofoam. Want to nerf the HEK? Increase the spread. It makes no sense for all the pellets to hit, but them doing no damage.

 

EDIT: Oh, do remember that what is 10 meters in game is actually not even 5 meters in real life. The metric system in Warframe is very odd.

Edited April 28, 2013 by DryRoastedLemon

[MJ12]

You know what the funniest thing is as of Patch 7.9.0?

 

The Glaive has a longer effective range than the Hek now.

 

Forget shotgun sniping, we now have melee sniping.

[GTG3000]

I can't believe what's going on in this thread, and I'm mainly pointing at the people who think that what happened to the HEK (and all other shotguns) is justified because 25+ meters is apparently sniper range. This is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. As was said by someone yesterday, real shotguns are actually used to hunt birds and, depending on the kind of pellets you're using, can be effective up to 300 meter range. Now of course we're not necessarily going for realism in a space ninja game, but we're also not going for the exact opposite. At the moment the HEK is just a really dumb weapon. It is really, really strange. For me it is actually a case of realism, but I'll explain that in a bit.

 

I have a rank 30 HEK with several maxed out damage mods, so I went to play some levels of Mercury and Venus to see how terrible this nerf was. If the nerf would show its face in Mercury, you just know it's going to be worse in higher levels. I found out that at medium range I sometimes couldn't one-shot guys on Mercury. On Mercury. Heck, to destroy an explosive barrel I sometimes had to shoot three times. But you know what? What really makes this nerf stupid is not the decrease in damage output. It's in the mechanics, and that's where realism comes in.

 

You see, every pellet actually makes contact. Every target gets blasted with HEK pellets, but for some reason they just lose their potency at a certain range. This just blows my mind. It's this mechanic which makes this nerf so mindblowingly bad. At the moment you can shoot someone in the head with 100% accuracy (that is, have their face blasted with HEK pellets), but it doing almost no damage at all.

 

I can understand that the HEK needed a nerf, but it didn't need to become a... What, a clown of a weapon. Shotguns lose their effectiveness because of increasing spread, not because the pellets magically turning into flakes of styrofoam. Want to nerf the HEK? Increase the spread. It makes no sense for all the pellets to hit, but them doing no damage.

 

EDIT: Oh, do remember that what is 10 meters in game is actually not even 5 meters in real life. The metric system in Warframe is very odd.

 

The big problem whith Hek spread is that a lot of enemies have very large profiles. You couldn't really snipe, say, Moas with it, and crewmen usually took one or two shots, but mostly because of their damage-magnifying heads that make one pellet lethal. Now go on and try to miss a grineer.

[GTG3000]

Say, just out of curiousity, did anyone get any response on this? 

Not even DERebecca commented on this in the update topic. In fact, she only posted, like, three messages there.

I don't know how about you, guys, but I get a strong feeling of DE, spitting in my face. Don't they have someone to, say, manage community, especially to answer such questions and deal with backlashes? 

Edited April 28, 2013 by GTG3000