No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Blatantfool]

So you are saying are selling the game EXACTLY like it should be sold?

You can pay for stuff and get it now or you can wait for it and build it. That's what this game has always been like from the start.

 

 I'm saying that myself and plenty of other people are clearly unhappy with this release.

 

 

 The Reinforcement Update before this one, Grakata and Ankyros, do you happen to remember an uproar like this over those weapons? I'm willing to bet you didn't - mostly because I have been browsing the forums and playing the game since then and didn't see it.

 

 I bet you understand why there wasn't - those items where straightforward.

 

 "Pay or grind Materials and wait 12hrs."

 

 It was simple, reasonable. Nothing to complain about. This clearly never bothered anyone.

 

 

 However this release was "Pay or wait some unknowable amount of time and THEN grind materials and wait 12hrs."

 

 And this causes an uproar. This is what people consider unreasonable. It is where the line would seem to be drawn for many people.

 

 

 On one hand you have the hype train problem - which leaves many people pretty disappointed and angry because they got so excited just to be brick walled.

 

 On the other you have people saying "I simply wont support this. The rest is fine, this is not." - which is pretty normal. Hopefully DE does the cool thing and doesn't do this to the players again. They typically to the cool thing so I'm not too worried. I will speak up, every time, if it continues however.

[Sikab]

to be real here we aren't entitled to anything aside from the founders and platinum according to this thread here

this information also appears on the launcher before every new patch

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

Most ToS/etc have so many Legal issues... but this thread isn't about that :)

 

Let's stick to the topic please.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Sikab

[Blatantfool]

While I remember this, I have one comment only here.

 

She, not he. If the name change option were currently implemented I'd snatch that up like a heartbeat to stop this kind of thing.

 

 From my end it is a pretty 'Flip a coin over it' situation with each poster. You never know - to be honest the gender has no serious impact on any of what is being said on these forums most topics so I just default to 'he' because it tends to do fine. However, consider that dually noted.

[LegendairyWarframe]

to be real here we aren't entitled to anything aside from the founders and platinum according to this thread here

this information also appears on the launcher before every new patch

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

The Law is over the rules.

 

But let not bring this into discussion, it's a emotion killer.

[Valkyrie9001]

I believe there should be a Blueprint, but for a HIGH Price. Like the Sentinel Blueprints, 100,000.

Maybe it should be 150,000.

[Venarge]

Heat dagger. Nobody whined about the heat dagger.

 

Poor dagger. Nobody likes you and makes threads about you... =(

[Blatantfool]

I like this.

At the heart of it, I suppose you could argue that the alert system is flawed. As an occasional thing, it can be a cool surprise when you log on; making people reliant on it, on the other hand, seems off considering the fact that it's RNG that can run across months. The most dedicated of people (to the game) might have the worst of luck.

 

  I hated it at first but the Alert system isn't QUITE as painful as it was when I got going. Either I'm used to it or it wasn't so bad to begin with.

 

 

 Most of the items obtainable in those Alerts (Weapon wise) are only obtainable in that fashion. That really doesn't bug me much - fine - some flavor for the RNG to toss my way. Not a problem.

 

 

 Since the change to the mod system (and with it the change to Orokin items) I find that I no longer absolutely NEED anything from an Alert. Even Orokin items are in a state where I desire them but being without wont hurt me. When I first joined not having at LEAST an Orokin Reactor meant that your Warframe's skills where stunted. I hated this with a passion .Just that part particularly - stunting the growth of the skills.

 

 They fixed it. I didn't even think they would - but they did. 

 

 

 In this case it is just the nastiness of that weapon being added being both extremely desirable AND sold in that way. It makes the problem with selling in that fashion more obvious. Draws attention to it so people have to pay attention to how much they dislike it.

 

 You don't see people fuss over the Heat Dagger - but that isn't exactly 'new' or 'highly desirable . It goes lonely and unnoticed - so no one is seriously upset about it being an offender of this type too. I think that is part of why it slips peoples mind that it has been doing this longer then Glaive.

[Blatantfool]

Heat dagger. Nobody whined about the heat dagger.

 

Poor dagger. Nobody likes you and makes threads about you... =(

 

 If Heat Dagger was new and interesting in and of itself it might have actually caused a fuss. Instead it just sort of exists, being neither new or interesting.

 

 However Glaive came into the game with a ton of hype along with being the only weapon of its type - it has a completely unique function. This drags the issue with how it is sold into the spotlight and you are just hearing people react to it now that they can't ignore it. You are seeing the reaction I think we could expect for the release of just about any weapon they do this too aside from things like 'Reskin' weapons with gimmick effects or weapons that no one expects much from. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Sikab]

  I hated it at first but the Alert system isn't QUITE as painful as it was when I got going. Either I'm used to it or it wasn't so bad to begin with.

 

 

 Most of the items obtainable in those Alerts (Weapon wise) are only obtainable in that fashion. That really doesn't bug me much - fine - some flavor for the RNG to toss my way. Not a problem.

 

 

 Since the change to the mod system (and with it the change to Orokin items) I find that I no longer absolutely NEED anything from an Alert. Even Orokin items are in a state where I desire them but being without wont hurt me. When I first joined not having at LEAST an Orokin Reactor meant that your Warframe's skills where stunted. I hated this with a passion .Just that part particularly - stunting the growth of the skills.

 

 They fixed it. I didn't even think they would - but they did. 

 

 

 In this case it is just the nastiness of that weapon being added being both extremely desirable AND sold in that way. It makes the problem with selling in that fashion more obvious. Draws attention to it so people have to pay attention to how much they dislike it.

 

 You don't see people fuss over the Heat Dagger - but that isn't exactly 'new' or 'highly desirable . It goes lonely and unnoticed - so no one is seriously upset about it being an offender of this type too. I think that is part of why it slips peoples mind that it has been doing this longer then Glaive.

As i remember. Heat Dagger (besides it's a bad weapon) wasn't available in the market day1. Only after weeks of weeks got introduced in it. Before that, it was an Alert exclusive weapon.

[Mak_Gohae]

 I'm saying that myself and plenty of other people are clearly unhappy with this release.

 

 

 The Reinforcement Update before this one, Grakata and Ankyros, do you happen to remember an uproar like this over those weapons? I'm willing to bet you didn't - mostly because I have been browsing the forums and playing the game since then and didn't see it.

 

 I bet you understand why there wasn't - those items where straightforward.

 

 "Pay or grind Materials and wait 12hrs."

 

 It was simple, reasonable. Nothing to complain about. This clearly never bothered anyone.

 

 

 However this release was "Pay or wait some unknowable amount of time and THEN grind materials and wait 12hrs."

 

 And this causes an uproar. This is what people consider unreasonable. It is where the line would seem to be drawn for many people.

 

 

 On one hand you have the hype train problem - which leaves many people pretty disappointed and angry because they got so excited just to be brick walled.

 

 On the other you have people saying "I simply wont support this. The rest is fine, this is not." - which is pretty normal. Hopefully DE does the cool thing and doesn't do this to the players again. They typically to the cool thing so I'm not too worried. I will speak up, every time, if it continues however.

 

 

This isnt the only item that is available in this fashion.

This is just fake outrage because you want a free item.

[Blatantfool]

The people making significant choice ARE aware. They're paid to be aware.

 

As far as I can tell, Steve and Rebecca are not. They're community management (or community something else, or PR -- all of these do not deal with the press and generally don't deal with hype-vs.-interest and marketing stuff, though in some cases (like my company) there's overlap). I'd wager a guess they run the livestreams mostly without any kind of serious oversight of the marketing-related variety, or they'd be a LOT more staged -- less joking, less nervous people, and more WHOOSH and BAZOOM.

 

That said, you and I seem to agree on the factual side of this, my assumptions regarding the rest are purely assumptions based on my experience and I COULD BE WRONG. I really could. That means that I have no more to discuss here with you, because we're largely on the same page -- I'm only trying to defuse a volatile community and steer them towards reasonable discussion which is the ONLY THING that can help DE fix this and avoid doing it again. You seem to feel that arguing my points is necessary, and that's perfectly valid because DE can't come in to see us all acting like nothing's wrong, or nothing will change. So I don't feel like we need to argue on this. We agree on the details and disagree on the what-if. That's going to go nowhere.

 

 How could DESteve or DERebecca NOT be aware when they are swimming in it?

 

 You SEE it. Plain as day. DERebecca has probably even posted in threads revolving around hype over statements they've made.

 

 They even livestream. Just as much as those Livestreams are us seeing and hearing them it is them seeing and hearing us directly.

 

 

 And yeah, I am on board with the idea that hype is a bad thing and that it isn't DE's fault players get hyped. It is something that happens regardless of the actions of their employees. The only way to curb it is to never open up to the community and honestly I'd say that'd be a much worse choice then the risk of disappointing us. After all - they can take steps to avoid future mistakes that disappoint or don't deliver. If they close up they might develop a reputation of being deaf and even when they open up players will be hard pressed to drop the thought that they don't care. Quiet Devs are often accused, sometimes wrongly, of not giving a sh*t.

 

 Just crossing my fingers here. I'm fine sitting tight and asking for DE to simply go back to the way previous weapons where introduced via updates. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Fjarri]

I think the source of the issue is that people are frustrated with lack of stuff, and a bit of content is now not so easily gained in comparison to what we have been getting. 

 

Yeah I was annoyed that there is no bp, but it's at DE's discretion to do with weapons what they want.

[Blatantfool]

As i remember. Heat Dagger (besides it's a bad weapon) wasn't available in the market day1. Only after weeks of weeks got introduced in it. Before that, it was an Alert exclusive weapon.

 

 This is accurate to my memory as well. I feel like it slips under the radar because there really isn't anyone going "DAMN. I REALLY WANT THAT HEAT DAGGER. IT LOOKS SO GOOD!"

 

 This whole thing with the Glaive is made worse because you can't particularly ignore it - being new and unique in function.

 

 That is part of the issue where the hype train simply makes matters worse. Still, I feel there is plenty of merit to the customers saying "You did it right in previous updates. Stick to that method."

 

This isnt the only item that is available in this fashion.

This is just fake outrage because you want a free item.

 

 You post a lot and somehow find it in yourself to say very little. In that way your posts never disappoint. I eagerly look forward to the next time you choose to resort to a strawman argument and expect others to agree.

[CaligoIllioneus]

This isnt the only item that is available in this fashion.

This is just fake outrage because you want a free item.

 

Please stop being so wrong? Why do all video game complaints turn into a strawman marathon?

[nullCassielle]

 How could DESteve or DERebecca NOT be aware when they are swimming in it?

 

Oh no, nonono. You misunderstood.

 

They're most certainly aware. But they likely aren't PAID for that, and they likely aren't paid to DEAL with that. Most probably they're paid to liaise between community and designers. That's a bigger job than it seems, they're the bullS#&$filters and the ones that tell us anything that gets told to us. They have to use discretion on multiple levels, and adding a new one? They don't have the time or the paychecks.

[Quetzhal]

  I hated it at first but the Alert system isn't QUITE as painful as it was when I got going. Either I'm used to it or it wasn't so bad to begin with.

 

 

 Most of the items obtainable in those Alerts (Weapon wise) are only obtainable in that fashion. That really doesn't bug me much - fine - some flavor for the RNG to toss my way. Not a problem.

 

 

 Since the change to the mod system (and with it the change to Orokin items) I find that I no longer absolutely NEED anything from an Alert. Even Orokin items are in a state where I desire them but being without wont hurt me. When I first joined not having at LEAST an Orokin Reactor meant that your Warframe's skills where stunted. I hated this with a passion .Just that part particularly - stunting the growth of the skills.

 

 They fixed it. I didn't even think they would - but they did. 

 

 

 In this case it is just the nastiness of that weapon being added being both extremely desirable AND sold in that way. It makes the problem with selling in that fashion more obvious. Draws attention to it so people have to pay attention to how much they dislike it.

 

 You don't see people fuss over the Heat Dagger - but that isn't exactly 'new' or 'highly desirable . It goes lonely and unnoticed - so no one is seriously upset about it being an offender of this type too. I think that is part of why it slips peoples mind that it has been doing this longer then Glaive.

Well, it would be more accurate to say that I think that the alert system is completely fine with regards to --

... okay what? Warframe just made a really weird sound. o_O Did they change it so that it kicks idle players? I think I might have been idling in solo, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, it's probably less painful now because as you said, it's somewhat better than it was before. I'm fine with the alert system being used for badass looking weapons, like the Dark Sword and the other Alert only stuff. Orokin items I'm a bit more on the fence - I'd be happier if you could grind for blueprint parts, even if it was a very rare reward akin to the Banshee parts. Still, it's okay as is, and nothing about it particularly bothers me. As you said, the game is playable without Orokin items.

Now that I think about it, it's not just that the Glaive was extremely desirable, or even entirely about the hype (though both are extremely important factors and the latter was what put me off so much about the way DE handled the situation in the first place, don't get me wrong) - the Glaive is a new type of weapon that, if you will allow me the slight exaggeration, can be gameplay-changing. Having the Glaive is somewhat akin to having a new type of gun that staggers, does ridiculous amounts of damage, richochets, and has infinite ammo. Making something like that (gameplay-changing) alert only for the stated reasons (RNG) is pretty unfair to the free players that won't necessarily be online regardless of their dedication to the game.

Free players are important. They may not directly support the game, but if they like a game, they're a source of recruiting new players who might pay, acting as a playerbase for the paying players to play with, etc... Although I will be honest in that I hate distinguishing between free and paying players. If you ask me, they're all just people who love a game. If it's a true fan of Warframe that doesn't pay for whatever reasons, so what? It's not like his advice would carry any less weight; if he loves the game then he's giving feedback he thinks will truly make the game better. Not necessarily good feedback, not necessarily bad, just the same as with paying players.

Anyway, that was a mini-rant of sorts, not directed at you. I pretty much agree with you.

 

This isnt the only item that is available in this fashion.

This is just fake outrage because you want a free item.

I don't think your attitude will do anything but harm the game.

[Destrobael]

How dare a F2P game try to make money. Those monsters!!!

[Blatantfool]

Oh no, nonono. You misunderstood.

 

They're most certainly aware. But they likely aren't PAID for that, and they likely aren't paid to DEAL with that. Most probably they're paid to liaise between community and designers. That's a bigger job than it seems, they're the bullS#&$filters and the ones that tell us anything that gets told to us. They have to use discretion on multiple levels, and adding a new one? They don't have the time or the paychecks.

 

 You'd think they'd at least give the other guys a heads up for the sake of smooth sailing - but I understand what you meant better. I probably did misunderstand or misread. My bad.

 

  DESteve and DERebecca seem to do just fine for themselves. I guess I don't find it unlikely that they are able to make sure the right people know things that could result in an uproar of this type. 

 

 I do happen to lack experience behind the scenes - but 15 years of experience seeing this sort of hard work laid out I feel like they would jump through hoops to try to ensure as little disappointment as possible. You can't please everybody - but you can make sure you don't set yourself up to start displeasing more and more.

 

 

 Of course - that is a tad unfair, it would imply I thought DE is hard set on a course like this. I don't think that. In fact I'd argue they've probably seen enough talk by now to know that this kind of thing is rustling feathers and I've seem them take information like that and make good of the situation before, even when I thought they wouldn't.

[Sikab]

How dare a F2P game try to make money. Those monsters!!!

I really don't want to be rude... but i have to ask.

 

After all the Pros and Cons we delivered in 14pages, that's the best you can come up with?

[Zyfe3rX]

I fully agree with the OP.

 

As far as i know.

 

This is the not the company i was supporting so far and i wanted to support....Its changed and so do i !

DE is now Greedy. We supported them and now they got enough money and now what... they are letting us down ?

Really if they are gona continue doing this... we have to find a new game... and thats it !

 

If there was multiple throwing melee weapons... making of them Platinum exclusive would be OK. But making the ONLY THROWABLE weapon to be Platinum exclusive is kinda extremely crappy idea !

Edited April 27, 2013 by Zyfe3rX

[Venarge]

How dare a F2P game try to make money. Those monsters!!!

 

Yeah. The dark empire strikes back i guess. How can they make a weapon plat only? i mean, its not like there are any other weapons you could use for free.... no.... Since I dont see any heat dagger threads around here, which was introduced in the same way, I can only laugh about this....

[.Monarch]

that's also my point. DE knew how high the weapon is anticipated. no matter how hard it is for me to acknowledge, the Alert mission choice was pure money grabbing decision while the "hype" still have it's effects. 

 

Money grabbing or not, please acknowledge the fact that - Comparing DE with other F2P company, they're doing a pretty great job.

Considering 90% of the items in game can be crafted and gained through simply grinding/wasting time. Not many other F2P games allow or provide that.

 

And all in all, plese DO remember that DE isn't a charity, it's a company that HIRES people. They're spending loads and loads of money to make the game better for all of us to enjoy. But there are no guarantee that there will be a steady income, they're just human, they all got family to feed.

 

Just because they released ONE weapon that's only Plat/ Alert Mission available, you shouldn't be raging already. 

[nullCassielle]

Free players are important. They may not directly support the game, but if they like a game, they're a source of recruiting new players who might pay, acting as a playerbase for the paying players to play with, etc... Although I will be honest in that I hate distinguishing between free and paying players. If you ask me, they're all just people who love a game. If it's a true fan of Warframe that doesn't pay for whatever reasons, so what? It's not like his advice would carry any less weight; if he loves the game then he's giving feedback he thinks will truly make the game better. Not necessarily good feedback, not necessarily bad, just the same as with paying players.

 

This is why I despise the "entitled" being thrown around here. Our best supporters at my company are totally free.

 

I don't think your attitude will do anything but harm the game.

 

And I agree here. Let's be civil?

 

EDIT: Pooptyping is my middle name tonight. Blah.

Edited April 27, 2013 by nullqasael

[Sikab]

Yeah. The dark empire strikes back i guess. How can they make a weapon plat only? i mean, its not like there are any other weapons you could use for free.... no.... Since I dont see any heat dagger threads around here, which was introduced in the same way, I can only laugh about this....

Heat Dagger wasn't introduced the same way.

[Blatantfool]

I fully agree with the OP.

 

As far as i know.

 

I AM NOT GOING TO GET MASTER PACK UNTIL THEY INTRODUCE GLAVE BLUEPRINTS TO MARKET.

 

This is the not the company i was supporting so far and i wanted to support....Its changed and so do i !

 

DE is now Greedy. We supported them and now they got enough money and now what... they are letting us down ?

 

Really if they are gona continue doing this... we have to find a new game... and thats it !

 

 This is a bit extreme. I'm against the idea of the way this was introduced too but a total boycott over the first real problem like this is a bit unfair. They've been more then reasonable more times then they've been unreasonable.