Rhino Cannot Block During Iron Skin.

[Ronyn]

When Rhino has Iron Skin active he cannot actually block.

The first part of the block animation plays but he is unable to effectively block any incoming attacks or projectiles.

Instead they hit Rhino as if he had not blocked and tick away at his Iron Skin Counter.

With the way the animation only sort of plays out and since every other defensive ability (Hysteria, Turbulence, Shatter Shield) still allows the full function of the block button...... I don't imagine this is intentional.

 

Obviously in early levels it's easy enough to simply not care about blocking as iron skin will allow Rhino to plow through whatever he likes. However this greatly lessens how effective a melee rhino build can be beyond the level 30 mark.

It also negates the ability to counter attack.

 

As far as I know this has been this way since melee 2.0 came out. I would really like this fixed ASAP. If I remember correctly this has been brought up before but I am not aware of any official DE response.

 

I'd like to be able to play a melee rhino build and rely on Iron Skin as an "If I get hit" not as a "Take everything to the face because block doesn't work" 

 

A DE response would be most appreciated.

[Brimir]

I think that the issue is that technically he isn't getting hit; the Ironskin is. So there is nothing for him to block.

I'm not sure if it is per design or simply a limitation by the engine.

[ENIAK_Prime]

This has actually been an issue for as long as Rhino has existed so I can only imagine it's "working as intended".

... don't like it much, myself, either.

[Ronyn]

This has actually been an issue for as long as Rhino has existed

That's not quite accurate. Rhino existed in Warframe long before there was even a block button in the game.

[ENIAK_Prime]

That's not quite accurate. Rhino existed in Warframe long before there was even a block button in the game.

Really? Huh, I wasn't aware.

Well, I know it's been an issue for a long time, at least. At least before Melee 2.0, even.

[Ronyn]

Really? Huh, I wasn't aware.

Oh yeah. Rhino was one of the very early frames created in the game while the first version of a block button wasn't introduced until months, possible even a year or so later.

 

Well, I know it's been an issue for a long time, at least. At least before Melee 2.0, even.

Right. The block button that existed pre-melee 2.0 was inconsistent and messed up all around.

According to DE they were experimenting and sorting out how they wanted to implement blocking.

It only blocked certain portions of damage and the majority of the player base wasn't even aware it was in the game yet. lol

So at that phase it didn't work right in a lot of ways....and since it was just experiments I don't concern myself much with how it played out.

[ENIAK_Prime]

Right. The block button that existed pre-melee 2.0 was inconsistent and messed up all around.

According to DE they were experimenting and sorting out how they wanted to implement blocking.

It only blocked certain portions of damage and the majority of the player base wasn't even aware it was in the game yet. lol

So at that phase it didn't work right in a lot of ways....and since it was just experiments I don't concern myself much with how it played out.

Oooh I remember that. I was here before Melee 2.0. Before Melee 2.0 the only melee I did was Spin Attack with my Dual Kamas. Blocking was pretty dumb and stupid and dumb, yeah.

I think the only thing Melee 2.0 did wrong was prevent you from being able to block while you have your guns out, but it did so many things RIGHT I can't complain too much about it.

[Ronyn]

De...can you guys weigh in on this?

[cannonfodder1982]

i read somewhere that this was intended, i couldn't point you to a source, it might have even been a patch note, but blocking to preserve iron skin kinda seems daft to me anyways, 

[Ronyn]

i read somewhere that this was intended, i couldn't point you to a source, it might have even been a patch note,

I'll take that under advisement and see what I can find.

 

but blocking to preserve iron skin kinda seems daft to me anyways, 

You missed the point. 

[Brimir]

but blocking to preserve iron skin kinda seems daft to me anyways, 

 

Agreed.

 

However, it irks me that I can't pull off fancy counter finishers with Iron skin active...

[Ronyn]

Agreed.

You missed the point too.

How many hit's can iron skin take once you pass the level 30's? Not many.

How many hit's can a melee spec rhino block once you pass the level 30's? Quite a few more than iron skin.

Now combine both the reliance of iron skin and smart blocking together...

you have a pretty sturdy melee frame for the higher levels.

 

However, it irks me that I can't pull off fancy counter finishers with Iron skin active...

That too. But it doesn't irk you that you have to burn a bunch of energy re-activating iron skin over when you could have just blocked the damage instead? Energy may be plentiful but wasting it simply because the block doesn't work is foolish.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Ronyn

[Brimir]

Blocking as a way to mitigate damage isn't really viable past Earth anyway; the Stamina drain scales far too high, far too quickly. Even if you handicap your Warframe build with Stamina mods it doesn't really work either.

 

Give me the ability to block in order to trigger counter finishers and I'll be satisfied.

[Ronyn]

Blocking as a way to mitigate damage isn't really viable past Earth anyway; the Stamina drain scales far too high, far too quickly. Even if you handicap your Warframe build with Stamina mods it doesn't really work either.

My experience has been quite different.

I use Block quite a bit in my melee builds in later planets, T3 and T4 void missions for certain frames.

I don't consider stamina mods "gimping" my frame when I am specifically making a melee build.

Note: This only really works on frames with a solid base stamina number to work with.

 

But hey even if blocking did fall off so quickly that it isn't viable past earth it isn't supposed to based on what "melee 2.0/the sword alone" is meant to offer. If and when DE gets around to adjusting the stamina drain it will change the viability of blocking across the board.

[Brimir]

You are gimping you Warframe, it is as simple as that.

 

Stamina mods are a crutch for a broken block system and take up slots that could be used for mods that would make your Warframe vastly more powerful and/or potent instead.

 

Not to get all off-topic on you, but the problem is the way the Stamina drain works: it is all based on the damage blocked. If instead, for example, a Lancer bullet always took X Stamina to block regardless of the level of the Lancer then Blocking would be consistently useful. Currently it is a fun gimmick.

[Keiiken]

Blocking as a way to mitigate damage isn't really viable past Earth anyway; the Stamina drain scales far too high, far too quickly. Even if you handicap your Warframe build with Stamina mods it doesn't really work either.

 

Give me the ability to block in order to trigger counter finishers and I'll be satisfied.

 

 

I disagree. I main Loki with no shield or vitality mods only quick thinking and flow.

With the exception of AoE/explosives my blocking usually keeps me from harm so well that I have on occasion not realized I had switched to my alt build for invisibility that doesnt have quick thinking. I play high wave T3/4 without needing to have my squad pick me up constantly.

[Brimir]

..and Invisibility.

[Keiiken]

..and Invisibility.

 

Actually I rarely go invis with my main Loki build.

Thats why I rely on blocking.

[Ronyn]

You are gimping you Warframe, it is as simple as that.

 

Stamina mods are a crutch for a broken block system and take up slots that could be used for mods that would make your Warframe vastly more powerful and/or potent instead.

 

Not to get all off-topic on you, but the problem is the way the Stamina drain works: it is all based on the damage blocked. If instead, for example, a Lancer bullet always took X Stamina to block regardless of the level of the Lancer then Blocking would be consistently useful. Currently it is a fun gimmick.

How do I put this....

1: a lot of stamina is needed to keep the combo meter high. Some melee weapons are very stamina hungry.

So even if I wasn't going to block id still require stamina mods.

2: most of mods I have to leave out of my melee builds would be the stuff id use for caster builds.

I don't mind the trade off generally speaking. But I will acknowledge that gunplay doesn't need mods to be viable and I find that to be poor balance of choice.

3: the current block system could use some work. I even like your idea for it.

But as it is I get a lot of fun out of it. You don't and that's ok.

At the end of the day a lot of things in warframe need work.

I'm just trying to point out one problem in this one thread.

Rhino should be able to block normally while iron skin is active.

[Brimir]

Not really. There is no penalty for attacking when you have run out of Stamina after all.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure DE are very much vary of wanting to buff Rhino in any shape or form these days, so I doubt we'll see a fix for this (sadly).

[Ronyn]

Not really. There is no penalty for attacking when you have run out of Stamina after all.

No stamina means no special combos and no sprint based actions to move between enemy groups.

Obviously one needs stamina to get the full potential out of melee. That's not even a debate.

[Brimir]

Actually it very much is. You can slide attack at zero Stamina. The only "Sprint-based" action limited by Stamina is sprinting itself - and you should be slide attacking between foes, not sprinting. There is absolutely no penalty to meleeing at 0 Stamina.

Stamina has never mattered in Warframe; the only system that has tried to do so is blocking and it has failed due to the Stamina drain scaling with damage.

[Ronyn]

Actually it very much is. You can slide attack at zero Stamina. The only "Sprint-based" action limited by Stamina is sprinting itself - and you should be slide attacking between foes, not sprinting. There is absolutely no penalty to meleeing at 0 Stamina.

Stamina has never mattered in Warframe; the only system that has tried to do so is blocking and it has failed due to the Stamina drain scaling with damage.

Special weapon combos increase damage output and require stamina.

Depending on where the next enemy group is....

Actions other than slide attack may be required to reach them at peak efficiency.

Like wall running in certain spots.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Ronyn

[Brimir]

Uhm no. That's blatantly false; you can perform stance combos just fine at 0 Stamina.

Wall running is parkour, not melee.

[Ronyn]

Uhm no. That's blatantly false; you can perform stance combos just fine at 0 Stamina.

Wall running is parkour, not melee.

I was under the impression that stamina was required for stance combos-ill have to check when I get back to the computer.

And wall running may be parkour but it factors in to closing the distance to actually do melee.