Vauban's Current Augments Are A Missed Opportunity

[Eyeless]

Easily one of the most interesting CC'ers in this game, the playstyle of a Vauban player tends to vary from person to person, but even my friend who only uses him for the occasional infested defense can see that his current augment mods are utterly redundant and bring nothing new or even reliable to his kit. 

 

Does he necessarily /need/ anything else in his current state except for a buff to Tesla's proc? Not really, but a few other frames get some genuinely useful and neat augments and I had hope that a frame as well thought out as Vauban would get equally well thought out augments. 

 

Tesla Link: DE nerfed it so we can no longer have an unlimited number of links, but rather we can only connect up to 4 at a time, though it seems you can create more links with another set of Teslas the linking process itself is incredibly buggy and inconsistent. 

 

All for what? 100 Slash Damage? This wouldn't even be remotely useful in a T3 or 4 and it goes against Vauban's more techy based damage types (Electrical and Magnetic) 

 

Suggestion for rework: Teslas are only really good when they're used in groups. This is a given and it's heavily encouraged thanks to their incredibly cheap casting cost and speed. Why not encourage the CC aspect of Vauban instead of his utterly negligible damage output (at least with the powers themselves) and do the following: 

 

For every tesla on the ground the proc chance of that and all other teslas stack by 10% up to a max of 100% chance to proc an electrical shock from each tesla within a certain radius. Not too close but not too far away so you'd still need to group them along certain areas accordingly. 

 

OR ALTERNATIVELY every 4 tesla casts can be linked together to form an electrical trip wire with 100% chance for an electrical proc. 

 

 

Repelling Bastille: Upon reaching max capacity the Bastille simply knocks enemies down rather than completely forcing them out half the time and it doesn't proc on those enemies again until they leave and re-enter the bastille. 

 

Any Vauban worth his salt in most runs will simply put down another Bastille to clean up the excess enemies more reliable and consistent CC, making this augment the epitome of redundant and a wasted opportunity when you consider all the other neat ideas the community threw at the polls. 

 

I understand that the entire community voted for this one by a fair margin but come on. Does no one actually play this frame? THIS is what you all voted for? 

 

Revolving armor plating, throwable supply stations, or even trapped enemies getting hit by MORE projectiles, THAT didn't sound better? 

 

Ugh! 

 

Any one of those would be infinitely better than how redundant this power currently is unless you really want to limit yourself to a one-bastille cast build despite the existence of Vortex and the cheaper cost of throwing down multiple bastilles instead over relying on a single cast... 

 

Suggestion for rework: Just pick one of the other ideas! They were good! They gave the power something else that would have added to its utility to the team instead of something utterly redundant! 

 

/endrant - feedback

 

It just grinds my gears that such an interesting frame with such a well made set of powers (and the one I was most eager to see augments for) is sadly among the frames getting the short end of the stick with what was such a promising offer made by the Syndicates. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by Hastur609

[Octoknightx]

LET THE CULT OF BOOBEN SAY AMEN!

[LordxTempest]

TBH honest I don't want to talk about augments in general most of the new abilities are novelties,lol. And if that was the case rather allow us to select new abilities in the abilities tab just saying since we got rid of ability polarity slots 

[Tali]

LET THE CULT OF BOOBEN SAY AMEN!

Aye

 

Tesla link should allow at least 20 to connect to each other and the bastille augment should just throw excess enemies away... far away please.

but else i agree, there is a lot interesting aspects of him and there is a lot possibilities for his augments

Edited December 15, 2014 by Aeon66

[Eyeless]

Aye

 

Tesla link should allow at least 20 to connect to each other and the bastille augment should just throw excess enemies away... far away please.

but else i agree, there is a lot interesting aspects of him and there is a lot possibilities for his augments

 

The problem with Tesla Link in its current iteration is even IF it had all of its links restored we'd still be stuck with the negligible amount of slash damage which flies in the face of Vauban's consistent and scaling utility. This is the problem here. 

Vauban is a utility/CC frame DE! Not a damage frame! Dealing slash damage just doesn't fit and is at odds with his sleek high-tech vibe of scaling utility and consistency! 

 

100 slash isn't utility, it isn't consistent, and it isn't CC! 

 

Edited December 15, 2014 by Hastur609

[Icebreccer]

I'm currently trying the Bastille Repeller out to find it it can have some usefulness/safety or not. This is an experimental build ATM:

 

 

With this I can get 8 enemies in the Bastille, max range, max efficiency and normal duration. The Repeller is there just add some safety in case I won't be fast enough to kill the enemies or my Energy somehow depletes. Haven't tried to solo T4S with this build yet, but I think it's just a safer version of the build I've used before. Well, with shorter duration that is, but then again I move a lot in missions and find the normal ~15s to be enough so that enemies don't get stuck for different places for too long.

 

Could be that the whole build is just load a horse crap and I end up reverting it for something else. Adding Vitality for example or the Constitution I took off. After all energy will never be an issue as long as you have either restores or use a Syndicate weapon. &!$$ easy to just spam the Bastilles around and keep yourself safe that way.

 

Then again Bastille without the repelling mod is most of the time good enough if you just mod it properly. Easy to throw around and keeps everything immobilized. Kinda sad that they didn't make the augment to be more interesting. What were the exact suggestions anyway?

 

Here is a random clip without the Repeller. Gonna try my "new" build laters to see if it's any better:

 

 

I understand that the entire community voted for this one by a fair margin but come on. Does no one actually play this frame? THIS is what you all voted for? 

 

Oh, I pretty much only use my Vauban. But sadly I have no access to design council as I didn't pay enough dough. Nowadays I wish I had...

Edited December 15, 2014 by Judqment8

[quietcanary]

Repel is a much better idea than the other suggested ones. We don't need a ammo station when ammo pa KS are more than enough. We don't need a snowglobe. We don't need a damage buff. We need bastille to do the job it was intended for. Using that mod elimitates the need for power strength mods and gives hI'm a chance against infested again now that they don't instantly fill cap. Tesla was interesting and cool and gave him something he didn't have which was damage. Not much but a good amount. More cc would be redundant and repetitive. The proc from te a large happens often enough that it would barely change the overall proc chance. Now with the repel and the tesla you can force them back through the same link dealing more damage (sorta) seems interesting unlike more cc

[Icebreccer]

Tesla was interesting and cool and gave him something he didn't have which was damage.

 

Yeah it WAS cool until they nerfed the crap out of it. Now you are just better with filling the mod slot with something else. Maybe it needed a little tweaking but nerfing to the ground was ridiculous.

 

And synergy between Tesla Link and Repel Bastille? Pfft, yeah right. Pretty much impossible to execute.

[quietcanary]

Yeah it WAS cool until they nerfed the crap out of it. Now you are just better with filling the mod slot with something else. Maybe it needed a little tweaking but nerfing to the ground was ridiculous.

And synergy between Tesla Link and Repel Bastille? Pfft, yeah right. Pretty much impossible to execute.

Maybe but has anyone tried placing a link over a bound target? Does it tick alot? I wish I knew before deciding it's completely dead but I agree and dislike the cap as well

no point crying over spilt milk if nobody had time to waste format on it though. (Metaphor then non metaphor, confusing sentence does make?)

even if teslas a bit of a lost cause repel is bound to be infinitly useful on its own. The other suggestions where lousy in my opinion unless you think otherwise? I'm at least glad the ammo thing didn't happen. Vauban wasn't meant to be the trinity/nekros of penta lovers

Edited December 15, 2014 by quietcanary

[Icebreccer]

I'm still doing tests with the Repel Bastille, but I'm just mad that it's so hard to decide what to sacrifice to fit it in. It's a lovely augment for sure, but I would love it even more if we'd just have the one augment slot per Warframe at least. It's a tough choice sometimes...

[Eyeless]

Repel is a much better idea than the other suggested ones. We don't need a ammo station when ammo pa KS are more than enough. We don't need a snowglobe. We don't need a damage buff. We need bastille to do the job it was intended for. Using that mod elimitates the need for power strength mods and gives hI'm a chance against infested again now that they don't instantly fill cap. Tesla was interesting and cool and gave him something he didn't have which was damage. Not much but a good amount. More cc would be redundant and repetitive. The proc from te a large happens often enough that it would barely change the overall proc chance. Now with the repel and the tesla you can force them back through the same link dealing more damage (sorta) seems interesting unlike more cc

 

The friends I run with are normally hurting for ammo when they bring full auto weapons. A flat damage buff to enemies (enemies absorbing more bullets while trapped augment) sounds incredibly useful, and allowing Bastille to patch team members up would have been welcomed.

 

100 damage isn't much at all and you don't need to mod Vauban for power strength when you can just use another cast of Bastille, leaving the slash damage negligible. No, Vauban did NOT need damage, that's never been what he's about, and him lacking any damage in his kit is never a downside so long as you bring a good weapon or two along. The infested I could see a use for repelling Bastille but you have to realize Vortex exists specifically to deal with large incoming hordes effectively. 

 

 

 

Oh, I pretty much only use my Vauban. But sadly I have no access to design council as I didn't pay enough dough. Nowadays I wish I had...

 

 

Yeah I went and made myself a negative power strength build for a mid-level survival run just to see how it functioned and if I could get some use out of it. So far I've only seen it be useful at late-game content once and that was when I forgot to cast a cheap easy second Bastille and it knocked a Heavy on its ! next to me. 

 

Despite my profile icon Vauban is my most played frame, though after playing him for months I've branched out into Oberon and Hydroid who I've been enjoying quite a bit. 

 

DE will invite random forum goers to the Design Council so long as you're active and contributing something to the forums. Ranty-style feedback or otherwise I suppose. They still don't give you the in-game Council chat for some reason though, not that we're missing out on much with that. 

 

 

Anyways, as a serious Vauban main, I'm really disappointed with his augments. They don't really add anything useful or cool to the powers in my opinion because if one skill of his falls short in an area he has another skill to do it, like with how Vortex makes Repelling Bastille redundant if you're really having an issue with enemies over-flowing just one of the stasis fields. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by Hastur609

[Icebreccer]

DE will invite random forum goers to the Design Council so long as you're active and contributing something to the forums. Ranty-style feedback or otherwise I suppose. They still don't give you the in-game Council chat for some reason though, not that we're missing out on much with that. 

 

Good to know. Perhaps I get a chance some day...

 

Also the ammo resuply would have been interesting. My two primary weapons are Braton Prime and Akstiletto quite often and they run dry if I'm staying more than 1 hour in T4 Survival for example.

 

I think my favorite one would have been the damage buff on enemies that are trapped in Bastille. Would have made the Bastille just perfect.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Judqment8

[Zyion]

Repelling Bastille: Upon reaching max capacity the Bastille simply knocks enemies down rather than completely forcing them out half the time and it doesn't proc on those enemies again until they leave and re-enter the bastille. 

 

Any Vauban worth his salt in most runs will simply put down another Bastille to clean up the excess enemies more reliable and consistent CC, making this augment the epitome of redundant and a wasted opportunity when you consider all the other neat ideas the community threw at the polls. 

 

That sounds more like a problem with a bug or it being designed differently then what everyone on the design council thought it was supposed to do. I voted for it because it sounded like a great way to corral enemies or block off paths to force enemies into one location. Which would be awesome if combined with AoE or punch through weapons.

 

I understand that the entire community voted for this one by a fair margin but come on. Does no one actually play this frame? THIS is what you all voted for?

 

Actually, it lost to the supply stations idea by 3 votes, so I wouldn't call that winning by a fair margin. Was actually kinda surprised that this augment was put into the game before the supply station one.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Zyion

[Eyeless]

Actually, it lost to the supply stations idea by 3 votes, so I wouldn't call that winning by a fair margin. Was actually kinda surprised that this augment was put into the game before the supply station one.

 

Hm, that so? I've been wrong before, admittedly I was too irritated that this thing won to even go back and check the polls again. 

[quietcanary]

Well vortex just plain makes bastille redundant so it's sort of a moot point. Recast isn't as viable as a single repel augmented one should be (theoretically if it worked properly) or even 3 since a single toss at a choke point means a unpassable choke point. The damage is something he could use as he has so much cc to make use of it properly. Imagine if you place it across a vortex and it still counts as passing through links *whoosh whoosh whose death*. If repel worked I'd place bastille on the roof and use bounce to fill it and then pushe enemies sideways off the sides for kicks. If you can't think of uses that beat out some lame damage buff (once it's working correctly) then experiment more. Also ammo restores dude. Don't want a augment that just saves me credits and nanospores lol

[quietcanary]

Okay really I'm soooo glad it lost. Cannot comprehend why anyone would waste a mod slot for 2 gear slots

[Icebreccer]

Spamming ammo restores is boring as heck and I don't even want to use them.

 

How does Vortex make Bastille redundant? Voretx is only good against hordes of enemies and infested. I don't get what's the big deal with people. It's just awkward to use. Bastille is easy to spam in any mission you want. And it's darn effective in what it does. I can breeze any mission with Bastille. Repeller is simply not that useful 80% of the time. I don't stack enemies in Bastille I shoot them as soon as I can. Sure it's lovely to have an extra safety in case you reach the cap, but that's about it.

[quietcanary]

You just... I was... nvm. Spamming restores is boring? Then dont? No different than a boring augment.

[Eyeless]

Well vortex just plain makes bastille redundant so it's sort of a moot point. Recast isn't as viable as a single repel augmented one should be (theoretically if it worked properly) or even 3 since a single toss at a choke point means a unpassable choke point. The damage is something he could use as he has so much cc to make use of it properly. Imagine if you place it across a vortex and it still counts as passing through links *whoosh whoosh whose death*. If repel worked I'd place bastille on the roof and use bounce to fill it and then pushe enemies sideways off the sides for kicks. If you can't think of uses that beat out some lame damage buff (once it's working correctly) then experiment more. Also ammo restores dude. Don't want a augment that just saves me credits and nanospores lol

 

No offense but do you not understand why flat damage abilities are normally frowned upon? A measly 100 slash doesn't scale even with Strength Mods. Just because a utility frame lacks damage doesn't mean it's required to make up for something, when Vauban really isn't lacking anything for lacking a pure damage ability. Rather it's what makes him excel over pure damage frames like Ember or Saryn, because utility scales far more than a flat damage ability ever could. 

 

 

 

It's not about giving something the frame lacks if the frame doesn't need it, nor should it add something a frame already has plenty of. 

 

Vauban is the shining example of this. He didn't need damage, he didn't need additional CC. He needed something to make his abilities different in a way yet still retain the versatile utility he shines at. 

 

Hydroid on the other hand is a great example of what a set of augments SHOULD be, providing great team-oriented utility that scales indefinitely thanks to providing something he never had before and scales because it benefits everyone; in the form of proc removal/immunity and consistent health recovery for those standing in his puddle. 

 

 

 

The Tesla mod is a wasted opportunity that adds something that he not only never needed but doesn't provide anything useful past Mercury unless you really need the eye candy the links might provide. 

 

Also c'mon. Vortex and Bastille are clearly geared towards different forms of CC.

 

-and here's a refresher on how for those of you who aren't convinced!

 

Bastille has range and instant mob-pausing while leaving them easily prone for the exploitation of enemy weakspots. The added range and nigh instant deployment make it much more quick and convenient for tight and spread out situations. It's also cheaper to cast.

 

Vortex is great for condensing large hordes into a single mass ideal for ammo conservation and efficient spread of your damage output or clearing crammed/crowded areas while missing out entirely on the weakspot exploits, less range, and it takes a second to fully deploy which can be the difference between life and death in later level scenarios. 

 

The powers are plenty different is the point. 

 

At the end of the day Quietcanary you and I have different opinions. But do you main the frame to make a sound judgement on which augment would bring more to the table or is Vauban just the frame you equip when no one else will for an ODD? 

 

This isn't a question wrought of condescension, but one trying to see if you can understand Judqment8 and I's frustration when our favorite frame gets redundant or lackluster augments decided on by players who probably never use him outside of infested defenses.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Hastur609

[Icebreccer]

You just... I was... nvm. Spamming restores is boring? Then dont? No different than a boring augment.

 

I have to craft ammo restores and I don't intend to camp in the Foundry to build them. Also I'm really bad at wasting stuff like that so I'm not really keen on the idea of running missions and spamming a finite resource. While if Bastille could act as an ammo station then maybe I wouldn't need the ammo mutation on Akstiletto/Braton Prime perhaps. Or at least I wouldn't have to worry about running dry even with the ammo mutations in long survivals. But really I would have loved an "Amplifying Bastille" instead.

 

Not everyone uses Vauban solely to go pound some infested defense. Not to mention that I would still pretty much use Vortex in there anyway... I use Vauban everywhere and I love to use him. Both augments that the Vauban got were not exactly what I needed in the first place. Well. except for the Tesla Link before the nerf. I loved it because it looked AMAZING and I could do all sorts of magnificent laser mazes with it. Surely it was't that useful most of the times, but it was hell of a lot fun and it looked rad.

 

If DE decides to add that augment slot then I will accept the Repelling Bastille with open arms, but in it's current state it's hard for me to keep it in my builds. And that still doesn't mean that this would have been my pick for the augment. Like I said before Bastille is already damn strong and effective at CC.

[RealPandemonium]

I find it amusing that people are casting Vauban as a highly sophisticated, alternative play-style "CC specialist" when in reality all you do is turn of all the enemies on the map by spamming 3 and 4 (by the way, the augment to 3 lets you do that better than ever with a max range build!.)  The idea that Vauban also shouldn't be able to do damage because "he's not a damage frame" is stunning to me. 

[quietcanary]

Very quickly this has become a strange discussion so this is probably gonna be the last time I post here depending on how it goes from here. First let's get something straight. "Geht gud" has no bearing here as neither you or I are experts on the new mods we are discussing, and they are not working properly anyway. I'm definitely going to take it as condescending because it is, but the way you have said it tells me it's not meant to insult me. Its its just to give your argument more value and I don't mind since I feel your maining bias is a hindrance to you gaining anything from this discussion, while at the end of the day I won't lose sleep if you dismiss my points because I'm not l33t enough for you. Besides haven't you ever heard that people who try other things and become more well rounded gain a wider, and better perspective? My comment about redundancy was to see if we I could nail down what you think the word actually means since from the first bit in the first post it has been thrown around several times to describe opposite sides of the same thing a bunch of times.(read the paragraph right below where you said "ugh" to catch my drift) I'll explain that in a second though. Enough of the measuring contest let's discuss something valid like the reasoning of your proposals.

The subject is that you dislike both mods since you feel like the aug's are "redundant" because they don't bring something new to vauban. You want a electric proc mod, and a ammo/shield/damage amp instead. This is where I'm confused. You say he's a cc frame, and he needs more cc from his teslas and not damage which he is lacking in. At this point I don't disagree but your use of the word redundant has thrown me off since you actually want him to be more cc based with teslas aug which is "redundant". I repeat don't mind the idea you gave, but I also don't dislike the tesla mod yet either so it breaks even. This is because I haven't used it yet and the stuff I want to try may or may not work, especially with its nerf already which I didn't like.

Next you talk about the repel Aug which you dont like because the cc is to much. It's also because it's buggy and useless but you clearly point out you don't like the concept in general and would prefer the 3 other options.... which are the definition... of redundant. Ironically enough though they are simply redundant to the game itself and not to vauban, and even more ironically none of them add cc. At this point I'm questioning you since if you were there for the bastille nerf you would understand that this was us telling DE to shove off with the nerfs. It's a amazing thing we did for vauban undoing the bastille nerf which caused so much anger, and you want it to be ammo restores instead... it's broken sure but it theoretically should be even better than old bastille (pushing mechanics making for some fun shenanigans with pits) but you want more damage of the most generic sort? I straight up don't get it. You just wanted cc and this has amazing potential, but no snowglobe is better? Wut?

My first post was to pick your brain and see what you where thinking, while maybe letting you know this stuff has potential. Judgement dismisses that. Mod is nerfed is a thing... yep got it. I'll try again to see if they have actually thought about it. Try again. You shut it down and make a comparison to how vortex handles it. How bastille is redundant to vortex. Redundant. Then I agree and point out yet again that the augment would be interesting and make it less redundant. Then apparently judgement no longer agrees with himself and says it's not redundant. Im so confused im just like wut? Then you do the same thing while "not" being condecending. Also you use redundant again.

At this point I'm pretty sure neither of you actually have any reasoning behind wanting a change besides a tesla cc, and bastille damage amp both being easier, and more straight forwardly op. Sure stuffs nerfed or broken but why wait let's just blow it off for obvious buffs. I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm not sure you have the privilege to check my credibility if you need to look up what redundant means. See how that still sounds condescending? It's really not though I assure you.

[Icebreccer]

I was just saying that I would have loved something else instead. I don't think I never said that Repelling Bastille or anything else Vauban has is redundant.

 

So I never said that Repelling Bastille is bad, quite the opposite. I was just saying that there might have been more interesting options for me personally.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Judqment8

[Eyeless]

-snip-

 

Nowhere have I tried to imply I am a better player than you, don't put words in my mouth. However I can't help but get exasperated when you don't seem to understand the point of why what he has is redundant and WHY the Tesla Link mod adds nothing and is not needed. 

 

What's the point in giving him damage when the damage is so negligible it'll barely last through Mercury? 

 

The Tesla needs more electrical proc so it can be consistent like it used to be in Damage 1.0 and give it the CC it used to have.

 

The Bastille augment is redundant not because it adds additional CC but because the way it does so simply isn't needed when you can just throw down either a second Bastille or a Vortex. 

 

Is that clear enough? 

[Ragak]

Could be good:

 

Charged Tesla: Agument 150% Shield Recharg

 

Last Bastille: When time gone out , Bastille exploid Knowed Down enemy's in a 10m Radius, Time Knowed down 5 sec's

 

Sorry For my english

Edited December 17, 2014 by Ragak