Frost Feedback / Discussion

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Let's try and get this into the community hot topics guys, DE needs to see it badly. They've ignored him for the most part.

[AlphaHorseman]

Let's try and get this into the community hot topics guys, DE needs to see it badly. They've ignored him for the most part.

Should the topic continue to be hot, we can hopefully see this happen.

[Dokusi]

Then let's light this thread up!

Poor frost has been waiting patiently to be worked on for quite a while. He's a battlemage/tank, yet he has no more power or armor then the next tank.

Give him added something. Make him have more speed, 100 or more armor, or innate power strength. He needs more polish so ppl can see his charm.

[AlphaHorseman]

Then let's light this thread up!

Poor frost has been waiting patiently to be worked on for quite a while. He's a battlemage/tank, yet he has no more power or armor then the next tank.

Give him added something. Make him have more speed, 100 or more armor, or innate power strength. He needs more polish so ppl can see his charm.

Let's also remember that we don't want him way too specialized to where players can't really diverge from the vanilla path. The rework should ensure that he has a solid foundation, but his variation and specialization is something players can work with. That being said, a good foundation is a kit of powers that have scalability, utility, and crowd control, as he's a heavier frame whose theme is of an element that feels more like an area lockdown kit. Scalability in the form of utility would include his freeze/ice procs occuring through maybe all 3 of his offensive powers. I've stated above ideas on how to do this, and so has the OP.

 

For your second line, those sound more so like passives, or stat boosts, and I do hope they give these to Frost Prime and give Frost some additions to his run speed, as even Rhino can outclass him with the Arcane Vanguard Helm.

[XToxinator]

I think this is how frost and frost lrime stats will be like

Frost

Sheilds: 150

Health: 100

Armor: 350 ( For temporary armor buff)

Speed: 0.9

__________________________________________

Frost prime

Sheilds: 200

Health: 100

Armor: 400( Same reason for the top one)

Speed: 0.9

Well I don't think it needs speed buff cause frost is a armortic defensive warframe.

[AlphaHorseman]

I think this is how frost and frost lrime stats will be like

Frost

Sheilds: 150

Health: 100

Armor: 350 ( For temporary armor buff)

Speed: 0.9

__________________________________________

Frost prime

Sheilds: 200

Health: 100

Armor: 400( Same reason for the top one)

Speed: 0.9

Well I don't think it needs speed buff cause frost is a armortic defensive warframe.

For comparison, what are the current armor levels? Of both Frost/Frost Prime and Rhino Prime, the other male advertised Frame of the game. It would be interesting to see how these two compare.

[XToxinator]

For comparison, what are the current armor levels? Of both Frost/Frost Prime and Rhino Prime, the other male advertised Frame of the game. It would be interesting to see how these two compare.

Frost do needs armor for snowglobe. While rhino prime seems indestructible with iron skin. If iron skin is affected by ferrite armor than I should say he needs slightly or significant armor buff. So frost do needs more armor than rhino.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Xtoxinkilla

[Holeypaladin]

Frost shouldn't really be more tanky than the rhino... he just just needs a useful array of abilities like Rhino has.

 

Really he'd be fine if Avalanche had a bigger radius with a freeze affect on all enemies hit for 10 seconds or so.  Can even reduce the damage on it... doesn't need to be a damage-oriented ability, since the freeze will scale better into endgame.

 

I wouldn't mind if frost's armor was buffed, but you'd need to buff Rhino's armor to match.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Dokusi]

Frost shouldn't really be more tanky than the rhino... he just just needs a useful array of abilities like Rhino has.

 

Really he'd be fine if Avalanche had a bigger radius with a freeze affect on all enemies hit for 10 seconds or so.  Can even reduce the damage on it... doesn't need to be a damage-oriented ability, since the freeze will scale better into endgame.

 

I wouldn't mind if frost's armor was buffed, but you'd need to buff Rhino's armor to match.

Iron skin is all he needs. Anymore armor would kinda be putting too much water in a cup decently full.

Frost needs a little more to make him viable. And to add to my point; just play any amout of levels with the community's and the frost to rhino ratio is way one sided. I would love to see more frost in modes besides defense

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Anyone know when the community hot topics are coming up again? As you can all tell, I'm pretty desperate to get DE to look this way at our thread about or beloved icy tank.

[Kidkilla]

Been using frost prime for a week now and I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. Yeah he's a bit slower than most warframes and casting speed could be a bit faster but overall I'm happy with him. Certainly a lot happier with him than I am with Rhino...

[dmkrodan]

Honestly, i always found it odd that avalanche was executed the way it was. It sort of feels out of place. I think it would be interesting to see it get a treatment in two different directions. I would like to see either:

 

Reducing damage to radial disarm levels, increasing status proc rate, increasing range, and making it into more of a mass battlefield stun, with a slow duration at the end from the proc. it wouldn't even have to be terribly long, 8-10 seconds at max rank. it would remove the focus on damage, and with it, they could change snow globe to strictly duration based. Limbo can fairly efficiently do everything that Frost SHOULD be able to on paper, with no energy issues, so why can't frost have a strictly duration based globe? but if you remove the damage focus, and the hp growth of the globe, Frost could find a successful niche as  a crowd control and support/defense frame, especially if combined with your ideas for frost, and the augment mod for ice wave. 

 

OR:

giving avalanche the energy drain treatment, a la absorb, peacemaker, prism, etc. But, make it unique, in that where most of these skills leave you stationary, make it so that its a toggle ability that creates a slowing, freeze proc, damage over time cloud around frost for a respectable range. you could effectively have a damage focused build with a snow globe that removes its duration and goes for a purely hp based lifetime. it would give him the capability to plant his feet, with snow globe, or actually go on the move, creating a mobile bubble not unlike arctic eximae. My biggest complaint with frost is that you either stand somewhere and don't get hurt, or go somewhere and never make it fast enough to not get hurt. This would give him a bit of balance, and the capability to further increase the WHOLE teams longevity, making him a viable option that provides something useful and interesting to the table.  Edited for spelling.

Edited January 2, 2015 by dmkrodan

[TwiceDead]

Frost really should be a lock-down frame.

I could see damage being removed entirely from his arsenal and turn him into a really heavy CC/Lockdown centric frame.  

Avalanche for instance could have it's damage removed entirely and instead of dealing damage it could gradually slow down enemies in an area to the point where they actually freeze up. 

 

Could be OP as S#&$ though, maybe not the best idea. 

[Aimop95]

I agree with frosts first skill, making it break due to damage is sort of useless since people will never stop shooting at things.

 

Globe I think is fine as it is,

 

Avalanche should leave an icy area after it ends, slowing down any enemy still left alive Like the mod for Ice wave (frankly that should be an inherent ability anyway)

[AlphaHorseman]

Buffing his kit would have to include making sure his skills scale. Currently, Ice Wave only scales with the new augment (which I again am reiterating should have been an innate trait), so having a knock back or freezing enemies that survive the ice wave would help its current lack of utility.

 

I don't think we should hinder his damage output, as his diversity comes from his ability either to be a tank or a mage with his ice theme. Though I must say, the ideas given like the ones above do offer some interesting ideas on how he could be reworked. Such reworks as those proposed above in this page would make him extremely scalable, give his powers utility, CC and great functionality, even at the cost of his damage output.

 

It is interesting to see a diversity of ways that the community thinks to rework him, and not just focusing on the damage output/armor or buffing the kit in certain ways.

[XToxinator]

So frost freezes needs to have a largr aoe damage and if cast on floors or walls it will become an icy envoriment. Ice wave needs to have pure range and knockback. Ad for snowglobe remove timer, max health to 5K and have a meduim raduis blast if health is 0, Snowglobe should also heal allies shield 5X faster than normal and maybe a very slow health regenerate and energy. For avalanche, everyones idea. If enmies are 5m away from frost avalanche, then they will be pulled in. As for frost stats, it needs more armor and a slightly increase speed, for catching up to teammates. As for frost passives, easy, have frost immune to ice and will increase 25% damage on all and a 15% increase stats.

[AlphaHorseman]

So frost freezes needs to have a largr aoe damage and if cast on floors or walls it will become an icy envoriment. Ice wave needs to have pure range and knockback. Ad for snowglobe remove timer, max health to 5K and have a meduim raduis blast if health is 0, Snowglobe should also heal allies shield 5X faster than normal and maybe a very slow health regenerate and energy. For avalanche, everyones idea. If enmies are 5m away from frost avalanche, then they will be pulled in. As for frost stats, it needs more armor and a slightly increase speed, for catching up to teammates. As for frost passives, easy, have frost immune to ice and will increase 25% damage on all and a 15% increase stats.

Whoa there, haha, that's a lot of increases, maybe a bit much my friend, haha. I agree with the Freeze thing because it helps with how meager the skill is now. Could you clarify what you mean by "pure range"? And maybe not knockback, as it may interfere with the new augment. If they incorporate some new mechanic to the power, then maybe knockback might be a good thing. I don't think the globe should heal shields outright, as that would make it a bit too OP, especially if it was 5x. Maybe an armor buff? Having a range above the range of what avalanche is sounds a bit too OP my friend. Those passives seem a bit too strong to be just passives. What would you mean by "increase 25% damage on all and 15% increase stats?" All his stats outright? That's a bit far.

 

Though I agree that his kit needs buffs for Utility, CC, and Scalability, we still need to ensure that there is some balance here.

Edited January 3, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[XToxinator]

Whoa there, haha, that's a lot of increases, maybe a bit much my friend, haha. I agree with the Freeze thing because it helps with how meager the skill is now. Could you clarify what you mean by "pure range"? And maybe not knockback, as it may interfere with the new augment. If they incorporate some new mechanic to the power, then maybe knockback might be a good thing. I don't think the globe should heal shields outright, as that would make it a bit too OP, especially if it was 5x. Maybe an armor buff? Having a range above the range of what avalanche is sounds a bit too OP my friend. Those passives seem a bit too strong to be just passives. What would you mean by "increase 25% damage on all and 15% increase stats?" All his stats outright? That's a bit far.

 

Though I agree that his kit needs buffs for Utility, CC, and Scalability, we still need to ensure that there is some balance here.

I did said armor buff. Oh my mistake for ice wave, im trying to say it needs to have a longer range. Snowglobe was ruined since update 12 until they fixed it. And that passives you'rr pointing at it is a suggestion, not an expected buff. So since you said im making frost too OP than fine, Frost only immune to ice and has ice damage on him. Well yeah frost do needs some balance.

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Just think of how bad*** it would be to bring a properly put together Frost T4. I mean just think, putting the whole area on lock-down and just overall slowly reducing enemies to absolute nothingness. That's pretty much what Canada's weather does to you..

[Holeypaladin]

Armor buff really isn't the way to make frost more viable.

 

He needs better powers.  That's the only thing he really needs.  Inside his globe he's the most tanky frame in the game, outside he's as tanky as a Rhino minus iron skin.  Trade iron skin for snow globe and have other abilities that are about as good as Rhino's roar and stomp, and Frost is viable once again.  Those are the only changes necessary.

 

Perhaps a debuff to make enemies take more damage (like M-prime minus the explosions) and a crowd control ability (like rhino stomp) and he's back to a top tier warframe.

[Tymerc]

@dmkrodan

 

They probably won't make Frost's Snow Globe strictly Duration-based. That's how it used to be before it got adjusted. People deemed it as both "overpowered" (which I agree to an extent, especially in the case of wide Snow Globes) and "boring".

 

However, something does need to change as I stated in my earlier post on this thread. It should not be plagued by both a time limit, and an invisible health bar. The latter of the two seems less "overpowered", so it would probably be oriented towards health only if it did get changed.

 

As for his other abilities, I already posted an opinion on what I think. I also like most of the other ideas in this thread.

[FrostboundFlame]

Am I the only one who thinks Frost's abilities are useful as they are right now, augments be damned?

 

His 1, believe it or not, makes a WONDERFUL CC in that it removes any one target from the fight for a while. might not be as useful in full firefights, but incredibly helpful for stopping heavies long enough to get your bearings and clear out some trash mobs.

 

His 2 has innate slowing and a wide effective range when buffed for range, with decent enough damage to take a chunk out of Grineer.

 

His 3 is the most busted of all, because it has a guaranteed period of invulnerability (around 5 seconds) in which it gains health equal to the amount of damage it takes, making it only harder to break.

 

His 4 has another guaranteed proc, but of stagger instead of cold. one would think this wouldn't do much, but this completely stops heavies in their tracks, specifically Heavy Gunners and Techs.

[AlphaHorseman]

Am I the only one who thinks Frost's abilities are useful as they are right now, augments be damned?

 

His 1, believe it or not, makes a WONDERFUL CC in that it removes any one target from the fight for a while. might not be as useful in full firefights, but incredibly helpful for stopping heavies long enough to get your bearings and clear out some trash mobs.

 

His 2 has innate slowing and a wide effective range when buffed for range, with decent enough damage to take a chunk out of Grineer.

 

His 3 is the most busted of all, because it has a guaranteed period of invulnerability (around 5 seconds) in which it gains health equal to the amount of damage it takes, making it only harder to break.

 

His 4 has another guaranteed proc, but of stagger instead of cold. one would think this wouldn't do much, but this completely stops heavies in their tracks, specifically Heavy Gunners and Techs.

The thing about his Freeze is that there is a long travel time, even longer than bow shots. Also that his Freeze has a life bar and a duration, thus, if an enemy unit shoots it by accident and destroys the already small HP, the enemy within is freed. Not to mention that by the time you might have gone through the trash mobs, the heavy will be out of the duration. Or, more so is the case, enemy units block your Freeze shot from hitting the Heavy by accident because it's so slow.

 

For Ice Wave it's a matter of how his new augment for it feels like it should've been added to the power innately, as it helps it to scale. The enemies that survive the Ice Wave are only Ice Proced for a short time, but still fire at the same rate. The new augment does what Ice Wave should have already, slowed enemies and their fire rates and ensured that those who survived weren't fast.

 

For Snow Globe, its limitations come in with it's Duration and also its HP. Even as I would rather have Duration, as it was before, some do not. If we are to go down the path of HP, we would need to buff its HP to ensure that it's job as a large ward isn't destroyed by its meager HP bar. Even with the 5 seconds of HP, the duration based builds suffer from enemies shredding through it too fast, or the efficiency based builds suffer from the globes full HP not being realized and stunted. Though this may be a direct correlation on how DE wanted it to be, it still hinders his signature move greatly.

 

Avalanche, man, that stagger you speak of only lasts as long as the animation, and also leaves Frost vulnerable to enemy units outside his range. Thus, that short stagger is overshadowed by a casting vulnerability and very little CC/Utility. Enemies that survive the cast are free to continue firing at the caster, while enemies outside of cast range have continued to do so. In short, his Avalanche does not scale, nor does it have any palpable sense of CC or Utility outside its normalized casting time. For an ultimate, this is a very staggering weakness.

 

To sum it all up, his powers have either very little CC/Utility outside of Snow Globe, and what is there is small and can be overcome quickly. Not to mention his powers do not provide a strong foundation for builds as there is little CC, utility, or Scalability outside of Snow Globe, and even for Snow Globe the Scalability is limited to 5 seconds of hopeful HP gains.

[_FrostPrime_]

His 3 is the most busted of all, because it has a guaranteed period of invulnerability (around 5 seconds) in which it gains health equal to the amount of damage it takes, making it only harder to break.

 

Can you cite this information? Because nowhere in the entire game does it say the globes effective "health" is based off the damage it took from its invulnerability period.

 

Seriously. I went out of my way and checked. So where did you get that crock? Rank 3 Snow Globe at base has 3,500 HP, increased further by Power Strength and it receives less damage based off Frosts armor (although that may be false to... that's actually hard to prove).

Edited January 3, 2015 by littlewomba

[ZukaBazuka]

Can you cite this information? Because nowhere in the entire game does it say the globes effective "health" is based off the damage it took from its invulnerability period.

 

Seriously. I went out of my way and checked. So where did you get that crock? Rank 3 Snow Globe at base has 3,500 HP, increased further by Power Strength and it receives less damage based off Frosts armor (although that may be false to... that's actually hard to prove).

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Frost_(Warframe)

 

It says on the wiki. DE might just have forgotten to put that in the abilities section which do happen.