Frost Feedback / Discussion

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Anyone know when the next community hot topic comes out? And again, thanks so much guys, I really appreciate it (:

[XToxinator]

Oh I don't mind anything with what the augment does for this, even though I can't really see people using it all too often. I agree with your travel time and AoE, and also the stats thing, but what I saw which would be another good solution could be:

Yes, Freeze is just currently too weak now, but is just okay. DE pls fix frost.

[XToxinator]

Anyone know when the next community hot topic comes out? And again, thanks so much guys, I really appreciate it (:

This thread won't die but once DE has read it and decided to buffed frost, then frost stays alive and the thread made frost alive again! The thread may die, but frost never

[XToxinator]

C'mon DE is our frost buff coming soon or sooner? I can't wait to see a buffed frost in thr future

[VDeorsum]

agree +1

[Frost.Umbra]

+1 for Frost Buff.

[XToxinator]

agree +1

+1 for Frost Buff.

Im glad you two approve this thread. Frost be the king of ice again...

[Dokusi]

Bump for great justice

[XxMAGGOTxX]

I'm sorry, I keep looking desperate by commenting on this to keep it alive, but I feel it's quite justified. It's been too long since Frost has gotten any attention, and that needs to be fixed. Plain and simple. I love all the work DE puts into this game, and I really appreciate it. But this is just one part of the game they just haven't touched sadly. 

[Tymerc]

Don't feel bad. It's not being desperate. You simply desire a buff, as we all do.

 

Hopefully, with any luck, they will give us what we're asking for at some point. Until then, bump this thread as much as necessary.

 

Ciao.

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Don't feel bad. It's not being desperate. You simply desire a buff, as we all do.

 

Hopefully, with any luck, they will give us what we're asking for at some point. Until then, bump this thread as much as necessary.

 

Ciao.

Then bumpedy-bump-bumpedy-bump-bump.

[XToxinator]

Then bumpedy-bump-bumpedy-bump-bump.

Its okay man. Frost will get it sonner or later. I hope it woukd be an awesome buffed on frost and people starting to play it again

[JoxerHD]

adding my voice tot his, buff frost, he's not in a happy place right now.

[CapedBaldy]

Like I said before, Frost's 4th stuns himself longer than mobs hit.

 

Personally, I don't think Frost is underpowered. He's just very badly balanced. The only reason you pick him is Snow Globe and nothing else. That makes him somewhat bland to play as. Some other frames like Ember and Saryn suffer from this problem as well. The augments make them less bland, somewhat, but the base abilities shouldn't be this bland. It makes them in general quite unattractive to play as for most of the community.

Edited January 6, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[Dokusi]

His powers need to utilize the whole ice theme a lot more. Make them all freeze enemies longer not just cold proc, I mean freeze solid.

[Frost.Umbra]

+2

 

Bring Balance to the Frost.

[XToxinator]

I just hope DE will bump to this thread and read it. Well yeah frost is unbalanced, freeze has slow time travel, Ice wave may need some too but I don't know what it would be, globe is everything and avalache a duartion frost, a better uce theme.

[Dokusi]

+2

 

Bring Balance to the Frost.

+2 for this comment.

[AlphaHorseman]

If they were sticking with a Theme for him, then I would say most (if not all) his abilities should have some CC/Utility in the form of Slowing/Freezing enemies.

 

For the most part, his kit has this, Ice Wave slows enemies, added with the augment (still annoys me), Freeze does this (with horrid travel time and some bad aim can cost you the target you were trying to hit), and Enemies who enter Snow Globe also do this, but Avalanche, his supposedly most powerful ability, has nothing of the sort. It's just a flat out damage ability.

 

Of all his powers, I'd say the most used is Snow Globe for its ability to provide a safe haven and area lockdown. If we stick with the Ice theme, I'd say this kind of synergy is what they should go for. There's another thread talking about re-tuning the frames by ArchWizard, and his suggestions for Frost are a massive step forward in creating synergy throughout his kit.

 

One suggestion for Ice Wave was to give it knockback, as both a tool for area denial, but also to keep enemies out of the Globe. Giving Avalanche some utility in the form of freeze procing enemies that survive it would go leaps and bounds in making it an ult that can scale well into late game. It would balance out his kit and synergize well with his theme of ice and area lockdown. I understand some people like the Freeze ability, but its clunky functionality makes it lower tiered to other 1 abilities. Making it hit-scan to wherever the player is aiming would be an ideal solution, also buffing the radius of the freeze to help with the AoE lockdown theme.

 

Thus, all his abilities follow a theme of Ice and AoE lockdown, but also do not detract a player from going for the Offensive Frost build (as I do) or Defensive Frost build. This synergy throughout his entire kit allows him to once again be a force to be reckoned with in late-game or extended content without relying solely on Snow Globe.

 

He becomes a tank for the team, rather than a tank for himself, and also works as an offensive AoE pushback/lockdown mage, but can also be built to hold a position against even very powerful foes without relying on the Globe all the time.

[DeusXmakina]

I have mixed feelings about changing frost.  I don't feel he is neglected at all.

 

His CC capabilities are incredibly amazing.

With the new Ice Wave Impedance mod, I felt that frost's CC capabilities went up a lot.  He's still one of the few frames that I can take into any mission to survive and cc enemies to oblivion, and survive well beyond 40 minutes in most higher tier mission, solo or with team.

 

Here's how I use him, Maxed range, maxed efficency, and as much duration as possible without hendering range, along with steel fiber to boost globe and health for tankyness.

 

The slow of icewave stacks with snowglobe, rendering almost all enemies immobile when struck by both,  at the cost of very minimal power(12 power each). With max range, the horizontal and vertical range of ice wave is just unbelievably large, and the size of the globe can be used to CC. The slow of ice wave lasts for 8-10 seconds, which is more than enough time to deal with almost everything thrown at you, or you can always cast it again for more cc.  Frost's snowglobe(lasts ~30 secs) has innate 4 sec invincibility, which makes having less power strength not to much of a burden with overextended, but even with lower power strength, it still scales 500% hp on his defense stat, making it beefy enough for most usage.  If anything breaches the rather huge snow globe(slowly) and ice wave bombardment, his avalanche acts as a last resort huge aoe stun.  While his damage is lacking, his overall cc kit is actually quite amazing, along with his survivability.  I believe he is far from neglected and underpowered.  Some frames are better than others when built certain ways, frost for one, excels in cc capabilities.  He lacks damage in his abilities, but guns take care of that, that's why warframes use weapons right? to kill stuff...  He's far from perfect, but as of now, he brings a lot to the table when choosing frames to play.

 

IMO, he lives up to his name, Frost.

Edited January 7, 2015 by DeusXmakina

[AlphaHorseman]

I have mixed feelings about changing frost.  I don't feel he is neglected at all.

 

His CC capabilities are incredibly amazing.

With the new Ice Wave Impedance mod, I felt that frost's CC capabilities went up a lot.  He's still one of the few frames that I can take into any mission to survive and cc enemies to oblivion, and survive well beyond 40 minutes in most higher tier mission, solo or with team.

 

Here's how I use him, Maxed range, maxed efficency, and as much duration as possible without hendering range, along with steel fiber to boost globe and health for tankyness.

 

The slow of icewave stacks with snowglobe, rendering almost all enemies immobile when struck by both,  at the cost of very minimal power(12 power each). With max range, the horizontal and vertical range of ice wave is just unbelievably large, and the size of the globe can be used to CC. The slow of ice wave lasts for 8-10 seconds, which is more than enough time to deal with almost everything thrown at you, or you can always cast it again for more cc.  Frost's snowglobe(lasts ~30 secs) has innate 4 sec invincibility, which makes having less power strength not to much of a burden with overextended, but even with lower power strength, it still scales 500% hp on his defense stat, making it beefy enough for most usage.  If anything breaches the rather huge snow globe(slowly) and ice wave bombardment, his avalanche acts as a last resort huge aoe stun.  While his damage is lacking, his overall cc kit is actually quite amazing, along with his survivability.  I believe he is far from neglected and underpowered.  Some frames are better than others when built certain ways, frost for one, excels in cc capabilities.  He lacks damage in his abilities, but guns take care of that, that's why warframes use weapons right? to kill stuff...  He's far from perfect, but as of now, he brings a lot to the table when choosing frames to play.

 

IMO, he lives up to his name, Frost.

That's the thing, his Ice Wave is viable with the augment equipped. Augments should not be the thing that makes powers viable or scale able. Powers need to have this outright outside of their damage output in the form of CC and/or utility. Ice Wave, ONLY NOW with that augment equipped makes it a power that can help you when the damage output isn't doing it anymore. It, in an of itself, needs some type of scale ability, WITHOUT the augment attached to it. Thus we gave suggestions for giving Ice Wave Knockback to help it synergize with his kit as an AoE lockdown frame (in my opinion). Powers shouldn't be dependent on Augments to be scale able or have CC/Utility, they should have them outright to ensure their use isn't only a damage output. Augments should be meant to add an interesting dynamic to a power, but not necessitate a trait to which only with the augment, makes it viable.

 

Avalanche itself is also another ability that can't hold its ground in higher level missions or even in endless missions. Not (only) because it has lackluster damage output, but also because the ability itself has no form of CC/Utility for the cost of using it. On top of that, the animation for casting the ability is a long one. So, to put it shortly, you have an AoE ability that's supposed to be a "nuke" (which it would be even less of with your Overextended Build) that just stuns enemies (and the caster) for the duration of the cast. This leaves Frost vulnerable the entire animation to enemies outside his range, and also enemies who survive the cast (which would be quite a few depending on where in the game you are and your overextended build). This presents a problem, because the very ability that is supposed to be his most powerful, also is the close second in his kit, to not have any form of use able CC/Utility. It's literally a straight damage output ability that detracts when armor is factored in or even Overextended is thrown into the kit.

 

How to solve it? Solutions have been proposed throughout this thread, I personally believe we should either go with enemies that survive the cast being frozen in place/cold proced, or having it leave an area of cold on the ground similar to how Ice Wave has in that augment. That area of cold should not be an augment on Avalanche DE! These traits allow the power to be useful outside of its damage function, as, I think all our powers need to be without augments.

 

Oh don't get me started with Freeze. You yourself hadn't mentioned it, but that ability has more flaws than it's casting is worth. Slow travel time, an ability to miss a target or hit one you weren't aiming for, it has clunky functions all over. Propositions for making it hit-scan would help a lot, as there wouldn't be travel time to an area/target. Maybe even giving that small area that the projectile hits an AoE of cold, thus synergizing even more with the rest of his kit.

 

And Snow Globe, ah the crown jewel of the powers. I will admit, even after the Frost nerf, this power is still the best out of his kit to fit his theme as a frame of Ice. But even then, the globe itself has its flaws. To put it simply, if you remove Snow Globe from Frosts' kit, then what is he? How does his role as an AoE lockdown frame still function? How does his role as the "Defense King" work now? It doesn't, because Snow Globe is his signature move, and I'm ok with it being his signature move, every frame has one. It's what people call the best ability in the kit, some people call it their 4, but in Frosts' case its his 3. But just because this is supposedly his "best" ability, doesn't mean the rest of his kit has to be lackluster, even when this ability got its nerf.

 

After much deliberation and reading through multiple threads on this, I would have preferred either making it timer only or HP only, just to help with it being limited by two options. Maybe buff the HP of a maxed ranked Snow Globe, since it's the crown jewel of his kit. This would also help with your Snow Globe build, since Overextended seriously hinders your damage output with all abilities. Maybe remove the animations of cold winds inside the Globe too. I mean seriously, where the Vay Hek is that wind coming from? We're inside a Snow Globe! Just have falling Snow Flakes or something, that would better fit his name and theme and not obstruct our view.

 

In essence, there's glaring problems with his kit, and you'll notice none of the changes I wrote about has anything to do with damage output, simply the inability for his abilities to function outside of damage output, or very minimally at that. He should live up to his name, and quite frankly, he does not. He doesn't have to be the perfect frame, but he should be very good at what he does. Now, if you remove Snow Globe from his kit, then he can't even be ok at what he does.

 

His kit should not be dependent on one power alone, his kit should have his powers synergize with one another, but also be good independently. Having Freeze be hit-scan/leave a cold proc area (not as an augment) allows him to slow down incoming targets. Having Ice Wave provide some respite with Knockback (not as an augment) helps keep enemies outside of an area. A maxed out Snow Globe can provide a more sustainable defense. And, with Avalanche providing CC/Utility through enemy slows for the survivors, and/or a cold proc area (not as an augment), allows for him to keep the enemies out or protect his allies from hordes if it gets that far. To sum it all up, Frost now becomes what his element is, an AoE deny and sustained defense point kit. That's how he lives up to his name.

 

With a sustainable kit like the ones I, and many others have proposed, Frost can not only go into his Defensive builds as many go with him, but also his Caster Build, which I think you have made a permutation of, with a solid foundations of powers that function not only without the need of augments, but is a concrete slate to build either way.

Edited January 7, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[XToxinator]

But DE still neglect often.

[Dokusi]

They said in their last devstream that this year would have redos of the old so frost better be in that. I definitely know frost needs work when I'm complimented for being a solo melee frost user(who also loves shotguns that need reworks but that's a whole new thread)

[XxMAGGOTxX]

Do you guys think we can hit 5000 views by the end of this week? My goal is to blow this thread up, get it huuuuuuge. Then, our long time goal could come to life. A perfect Frost.

[Dokusi]

Hopefully this thread gets some attention for the devstream this week