Nullifier Nerf

[kells_2]

its challenging i like it o.o

[dragonkingdx]

every time I enter one of these threads I see a common trend here, "adapt or get lost scrub!" Well I'm here to tell you something

 

Adaptation =/= making only a single loadout viable

 

I shouldn't HAVE to use *Rhino Prime, Boltor/Soma Prime, Brakk/Marelok and Dual Ichors* just to kill ONE enemy type. That is not adaptation, that is a gear check, and gear checks are neither fun nor challenging.

 

*slight exaggeration

 

Adaptation comes in stages and needs at least a start. (nullifiers can be a nice start as it kills a portion of those who rely on that push 4 to win mentality and those who use weapons that usually kill in 1 shot) It changes the way you deal with enemies. Many are afraid of change, because it would mean the game that they have played for 0-2 years isn't as easy anymore. (the only difficulty is dealing with higher lvl opponents/having a bad team and compensating for it)

 

They could make more challenging opponents to hinder the most used tactics and weapons causing people to adapt or just admit defeat. (honestly how many times do people actually fail missions once they have half decent weapons and some mild manner of teamwork?) Id love to see rooms that lock down and stop all powers, rooms with generators/machines that give mags bullet attractor rendering all weapons that dont have AOE/beam firing useless until the machine/generator is destroyed. Heck even melee units that if they get too close they disarm you take your weapon teleport backwards and blast the crap out of everyone with it. Each situation makes something less viable/useless and adds some priority of what to deal with first and promotes teamwork. It adds difficulty in missions that we normally speed through and makes the game last longer. Though there will always be people complaining about it because it seems too hard to them. But unfortunately thats what warframe needs, something that makes missions more difficult. Heck if they added more difficulty in the stages they might be able to increase the payouts on certain items in the drop table to compensate. So its a bit less grindy and more about handling the mission correctly .

[inappropriatename5818]

Ummmm no. >.> you obviously do not know how to handle them.

 

 

Not everyone is Rhino Prime with Boltor prime. The damage they do is absurd. wave 10 in T4 defense 1 mistake and you're dead. Heck, not even a mistake, there are so many of them 1 is bound to hit you before you can unload 50 bullets into their shield.    

 

They do too much for 1 unit. They have a bullet shield that doesn't have Health, but instead needs a lot of bullets to deplete (better than snowglobe) for everyone around, they block warframe abilities and they do a ton of burst damage.     

 

They are the definition of imbalanced.

[dragonkingdx]

Not everyone is Rhino Prime with Boltor prime. The damage they do is absurd. wave 10 in T4 defense 1 mistake and you're dead. Heck, not even a mistake, there are so many of them 1 is bound to hit you before you can unload 50 bullets into their shield.    

 

They do too much for 1 unit. They have a bullet shield that doesn't have Health, but instead needs a lot of bullets to deplete (better than snowglobe) for everyone around, they block warframe abilities and they do a ton of burst damage.     

 

They are the definition of imbalanced.

o.o I normally run around with mirage/ember/excal/limbo/mesa. (rhino is just plain too easy/same with ash/loki) And keep opticor usually as a weap if im not lvling some MR fodder weap (which I usually am, usually followed by brakk (seriously love that weapon)/S. gammacor for energy regen again if im not lvling mastery fodder secondary) But as I have said throughout the thread the difficulty is welcome IMO. They carry a sniper, people want snipers to 1 shot things yay they do. (the only real difference is that its the player getting 1 shot) Its difficulty is welcome and can lead to more mission fails if you dont use proper teamwork/handle it correctly. (its so boring to run through the missions to know everything is gonna die but you and that they are so trivial that lotus should just give you the reward for showing up)

[-CM-Shymaw]

I actually find Nullifiers easy to handle. There is only one thing that frustrates me on killing them. The bubble negates abilities completely instead of just canceling them for a moment. Using only melee in corpus missions is almost impossible or frustrating with some frames that rely on some ability. When i go inside the bubble while using Loki´s invisibility, it should continue the ability that has been negated instead of completely nullifying it.

 

Same problem is with Mirage for me. Using max strength/duration eclipse+HoM costs 100+ energy but lasts for over half minute. After even touching the bubble will negate this huge energy costly buff and you need to set it up again, while wasting energy. 

 

Otherwise I have no problems with them. I recommend using a heavy/ high damage melee and simply do a timed slide attack to take down the nullifier fast and easily with a one hit.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Yeah, sure "Adaptation". Let's call it that way. Sure. I am seeing all those Boltor Pr lovers "adapting" so much. Oh wait!.. Nearly nothing has changed for them at all! What a bummer, eh?

 

This "Adapt or get lost, scrubs" mentality amuses me to no end. I wonder if it's coming from all those MR17 Rhino Pr I have to revive all the time when going on high-difficulty missions on pub games?

The whole "adaptation" boils down to:

1. Get mainstream, you hipsters. High-ROF + tank frames all the way!

2. Get inside and try slide attack! What do you mean your weapon doesn't do it well? Huh, I though everything was as good as my dual ichors! What do you mean "it's a suicide on T4"? What is T4 anyway?

 

"Oh but you can run around and dodge their shots"

Except for when you are hosting/solo you can't.

 

Try out T4D mission. You will like it around wave 15. Oh wait, you won't.

 

dragonkingdx

As for encouraging skill. I've beaten many older games starting with Doom series. Let me explain to you what skill is because right now you seem to believe that skill = Dark Souls aka die, die and die again until you'll be lucky enough.

- You stand still or let yourself get cornered so, say, cyberdemon blasts you with rockets. Your fault. Get moving, use map. That's skill.

- You run in the open in Battlefield game so that LAV-25 mows you down with an autocannon. Your fault. Use cover, be sneaky. That's skill.

- You charge headfirst into a bunch of german soldiers in Sniper Elite. They proceed to wreck you at middle-close range. Your fault. Be sneaky, use traps and enviroment. That's skill.

- You run around like crazy, dumping your ammo pool into seemingly invinsible shield filled up with highly damanging mobs. Then the shield owner (known as -=XXX360N0ScoP3=- online I bet) proceeds to remove your face from existence with a couple of near-hitscan shots after bombard's rocket knocks you down. That's not your fault. Cover doesn't work because they have punch-through. Moving doesn't work because of accuracy fix implemented ever since archwing. Being sneaky? GLHF doing that on Surv/MD/D. That's NOT skill.

Edited December 31, 2014 by EvilChaosKnight

[Pizzarugi]

Bring a secondary and destroy the bubble, problem solved.

Sticking primarily to one playstyle has never been something you can do on warframe. You can't effectively snipe in any game, due to enemies sneaking up on you for example.

Always have a 'plan B', or you're going to have a bad time, like you're having right now.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Bring a secondary and destroy the bubble, problem solved.

Except for, well, you don't have those 2 seconds switch time + 2-3 seconds to destroy the bubble in the most cases. Of course it works when there's 1 nullifier. Even 2 or 3 might still work. 4+? That's when it becomes a damn big problem. With your suggestion I might as well use secondary-only (S. Gammacor or T. AkBolto it is apparently).

[dragonkingdx]

dragonkingdx

As for encouraging skill. I've beaten many older games starting with Doom series. Let me explain to you what skill is because right now you seem to believe that skill = Dark Souls aka die, die and die again until you'll be lucky enough.

- You stand still or let yourself get cornered so, say, cyberdemon blasts you with rockets. Your fault. Get moving, use map. That's skill.

- You run in the open in Battlefield game so that LAV-25 mows you down with an autocannon. Your fault. Use cover, be sneaky. That's skill.

- You charge headfirst into a bunch of german soldiers in Sniper Elite. They proceed to wreck you at middle-close range. Your fault. Be sneaky, use traps and enviroment. That's skill.

- You run around like crazy, dumping your ammo pool into seemingly invinsible shield filled up with highly damanging mobs. Then the shield owner (known as -=XXX360N0ScoP3=- online I bet) proceeds to remove your face from existence with a couple of near-hitscan shots after bombard's rocket knocks you down. That's not your fault. Cover doesn't work because they have punch-through. Moving doesn't work because of accuracy fix implemented ever since archwing. Being sneaky? GLHF doing that on Surv/MD/D. That's NOT skill.

 

I havent played dark souls/other games you played so I dont get many of the examples. (basic idea yes I get) However there is always a way, nullifiers are combated with high rof atm/sliding/keeping ranged and shooting as a team instead of trying to cover an area yourself. This game has dying but as it stands nothing really triggers that atm except foolish moves that dont occur often enough. Not dying =/= skill. But living through everything without a certainty of some challenge =/= skill either. There is no real difficulty until your cluster f'd by eximus/heavies/ loads of regular enemy fire. Nullifiers actually make the simple minded and easy missions like ext/cap/sab/spy etc a little more exciting. While at the same time adding more difficulty in numbers in the endless missions.

 

What skill is there currently in wf? there is none its so absent minded and simplistic. There should never be 1 setup fits all, 1 weapon fits all, 1 tactic fits all. Nullifiers start a limit to that and hell I enjoy that. There is no real danger for the tenno when they run through missions until mass spawning overtakes them. I think thats a shame, its all for the reward at the end. Not for the danger of the mission. Warframe is so fixated on getting x reward and making x gun OP. That you hardly ever get a challenge/move out of your comfort zone besides when mass enemies of higher lvls gun you down. There is no object of end game in warframe which is a point your not meant to cross because its suicidal. But because nullifiers can 1 shot you and more and more appear later that could lead to an endgame concept. Which promotes a sign "go past here and your screwed, but hey try if you want we warned you" Id welcome more hindrances over waiting 40 mins for it to get tougher.

Edited December 31, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[Pizzarugi]

Except for, well, you don't have those 2 seconds switch time + 2-3 seconds to destroy the bubble in the most cases. Of course it works when there's 1 nullifier. Even 2 or 3 might still work. 4+? That's when it becomes a damn big problem. With your suggestion I might as well use secondary-only (S. Gammacor or T. AkBolto it is apparently).

If you let nullifiers get that close to shred you before you swap weapons, then thats your problem. If I see a big blue (or gold, if in the void) bubble come into sight, I immediately prioritize all firepower on their face. If you encourage your teammates in T4D to focus on nullifiers on sight, you'll last a great deal longer because they don't make it to the cryopod.

And you don't need a heavy hitting weapon to break the bubble, you just need a weapon that fires really fast. Akfuris alone should suffice if necessary, or a detron. If you want firepower as well, get brakk.

I will admit though, people who main Limbo suffer the most against nullifiers, since they cancel all of his abilities.

[Rehero]

And you don't need a heavy hitting weapon to break the bubble, you just need a weapon that fires really fast. Akfuris alone should suffice if necessary, or a detron. If you want firepower as well, get brakk.

I want to assume you read the whole thread but suffice to a vastly TLDRed version, higher rate of fire weapons are already more efficient than the vast majority of slower rate of fire weapons so there is no reason for the shield to continue to use this mechanic if all it is doing is expanding the gap between inefficiency and efficiency.

 

All the shield is doing at the moment is promoting the use of boltor prime, synoid gammacor, some prime and other such weapons which are already really common. If they really wanted to make players "adapt" the mob would have been more prone to things like snipers and other inefficient/less common weapons.

 

Edit: I should clarify. We don't want the mob nerfed as the title implies. We want it changed so that it takes the same amount of time for slow firing weapons and high rate of fire weapons to deal with them. But as evident from another post, which I will link below, the shields are not working the correct way.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/373346-nullifiers-bubble-isnt-affected-by-damage-and-heres-proof/

Edited December 31, 2014 by Rehero

[Feallike]

New idea: When the status effect Magnet procs, the sheild is destroyed instantly. Their now magnet is more viable in endgame.

[TaylorsContraction]

I you insist on keeping the shields requirement of x number of hits, I demand shotgun pellets count add individual hits. I have to empty 2 effing 15 round clips to break that god damn shield. When I shoot an enemy with my boar, the screen is flooded with damage numbers, it should decimate that damn shield. Give my sh177y shotgun some love.

[IlluminaZero]

I you insist on keeping the shields requirement of x number of hits, I demand shotgun pellets count add individual hits. I have to empty 2 effing 15 round clips to break that god damn shield. When I shoot an enemy with my boar, the screen is flooded with damage numbers, it should decimate that damn shield. Give my sh177y shotgun some love.

My Hek concurs good sir.

[kalown]

I have been playing fo a long time (rank 16) and rank 6 on my other account. the nullifier just needs to go away, with the ammount of negative posts on this, the best thing to do is to keep it? the bubble goes threw walls and floors takes away our powers and we are instantly down. COME ON man!                 I have clan members that quit playing the game because of this, and the bobmadier in the void... whats next an instant disconnect from the game??? set off by a "disconnecter villan", we already put up with a lot of crap like nurfing our weapons that we spent time and money on to level up     ( where is my money back for that)? just to come out with other weapons that are crap like the soma prime= poop on a stick... get your crap streaight DE. I enjoy the game but displeased with the new BS enemys and weapons I am recieving!!!!!!!

                                                                    Displeased consumers.....

                                                                                  PLEASE RESPOND BACK A.S.A.P. we are all waiting.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Klown-in

[UltimateSpinDash]

I have been playing fo a long time (rank 16) and rank 6 on my other account. the nullifier just needs to go away, with the ammount of negative posts on this, the best thing to do is to keep it? the bubble goes threw walls and floors takes away our powers and we are instantly down. COME ON man!                 I have clan members that quit playing the game because of this, and the bobmadier in the void... whats next an instant disconnect from the game??? set off by a "disconnecter villan", we already put up with a lot of crap like nurfing our weapons that we spent time and money on to level up     ( where is my money back for that)? just to come out with other weapons that are crap like the soma prime= poop on a stick... get your crap streaight DE. I enjoy the game but displeased with the new BS enemys and weapons I am recieving!!!!!!!

                                                                    Displeased consumers.....

                                                                                  PLEASE RESPOND BACK A.S.A.P. we are all waiting.

While there are issues with the Nullifiers, they can be managed. For now, take a high RoF weapon until Bows/Snipers/etc. become viable against them.

 

Really, Corrupted are supposed to be the most difficult faction, achieved by combining Grineer, Corpus and Infested units. Previously, there were six different units, now there are nine.

 

People stop playing the game because of corrupted bombards? I guess those guys also avoided everything with Grineer in it.

[EmptyDevil]

Not sure if anyone else experienced this or noticed this but nullifiers seem to bypass the quick thinking mod and kill you regardless of having it on. Hoping this is a bug that needs fixing because as they are now, they have very high damage, block powers/immunity, and ignore a life saving mod when shooting. Nullifiers need their damage toned down and their quick thinking bug fixed.

[kalown]

Really Ultamaitspindash??  its obvious that corrupted are the most "difficult" in the game. the combination of the bombardier and nullifier as well as the Moa that can run up and burn you while your invisible, not only that but you don't even have to fire a shot and they find you. It wasn't like this before. But the harder they make the game the more money we are to spend on it to try to get weapons to the point that thay can handle these enemies. We all need to consider this in the equation. All your words are empty. because the fact is that the majority of the people don't want the BS nullifiers in the game.. I know they can be beat and I'm not saying that they cant. I'm saying that they are to much of a pain in the butt to adequately enjoy the game. think I'm full of it????/ then why are we in here posting our discontent??  why.....say something smart please...why is this post full of people with disappointment.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Klown-in

[dragonkingdx]

Really Ultamaitspindash??  its obvious that corrupted are the most "difficult" in the game. the combination of the bombardier and nullifier as well as the Moa that can run up and burn you while your invisible, not only that but you don't even have to fire a shot and they find you. It wasn't like this before. But the harder they make the game the more money we are to spend on it to try to get weapons to the point that thay can handle these enemies. We all need to consider this in the equation. All your words are empty. because the fact is that the majority of the people don't want the BS nullifiers in the game.. I know they can be beat and I'm not saying that they cant. I'm saying that they are to much of a pain in the butt to adequately enjoy the game. think I'm full of it????/ then why are we in here posting our discontent??  why.....say something smart please...why is this post full of people with disappointment.

 we need good pain in the butt enemies though. they provide a challenge to tenno who just bring some weapon and expect to kill everything with a few clicks/skill. All factions honestly need some buff to make it more exciting so people aren't waiting 40+ mins for some actual challenge. (once you get a good weap or 2 getting there isnt a problem at all)

[UltimateSpinDash]

Really Ultamaitspindash??  its obvious that corrupted are the most "difficult" in the game. the combination of the bombardier and nullifier as well as the Moa that can run up and burn you while your invisible, not only that but you don't even have to fire a shot and they find you. It wasn't like this before. But the harder they make the game the more money we are to spend on it to try to get weapons to the point that thay can handle these enemies. We all need to consider this in the equation. All your words are empty. because the fact is that the majority of the people don't want the BS nullifiers in the game.. I know they can be beat and I'm not saying that they cant. I'm saying that they are to much of a pain in the butt to adequately enjoy the game. think I'm full of it????/ then why are we in here posting our discontent??  why.....say something smart please...why is this post full of people with disappointment.

The MOA one should probably get fixed, because there is no reason it can see through your cloak.

 

Regarding the rest of your quote: This game was stupidly easy for way too long. I agree the Nullifiers need tweaks, especially regarding low-fire rate weapons. The bubble also be stopped by walls. Their Lanka is stupid too, with way too high damage and fire rate.

 

And if you are trying to tell me that this game is turniing pay to win (which you are implying) because it gets more difficult, let me tell you this: Most weapons in this game can handle T4, although some need more Forma than others. You don't even need Primes. Synoid Gammacor takes a few weeks to grind if you are starting from stretch, and has no RNG. There are also a few good Clantech weapons.

Even then, older primes are relatively easy to get, like the Paris Prime and even the Boltor Prime, both of which are some of the best weapons in the whole game.

 

Also, note that Corrupted Nullifiers (and I think bombards) only appear in T3 and T4, the two hardest void difficulties. Nobody said it's supposed to be easy there.

 

Oh, and never assume that you are in the majority unless you have something to back it up with. And no, this thread does not count. Most people who are on the forums haven't written their opinion here (else this thread would be MUCH bigger), and a lot of people are not voicing their opinion on the forum at all. Some write PMs to the devs, some make Youtube videos, and others keep their opinion to themselves.