Simple Fix For Void Rng That Does Not Devalue Prime Access.

[geninrising]

I am looking to have a feature implemented that will be a stop gap preventative measure due to the fact that Void RNG will continually become worse and worse for every single Tower.

 

The fact that the devs have not discontinued the weighted rng mechanic guarantees that eventually every player will become uncaring of new prime releases. The fact of the matter is that prices will become higher and higher for the new primes in trade and eventually it will just plain become an utter nightmare for anyone that cannot afford PA.

 

Nova Prime at her inclusion was sold for 1k platinum in trade channel REGULARLY due to the amount of forced GRIND to acquire her it honestly just made more sense to buy her. As more primes are added it will cause an increase from what previous primes have cost due to dilution of the RNG pool becoming greater.

 

As is, we are having a large exodus of players leave WF due to the fact that they do not have days and days to dedicate to acquiring one item.

Pardon I miss stated that, days and days to dedicate to acquiring one PIECE of an item. That is to say nothing of acquiring the other pieces.

 

Something must eventually be done to alleviate this insanity of RNG(grinding a key) RNG(weighted factor) RNG(random reward roll,not exactly as weighting further influences this) that's three different factors we have working against us at all times to acquire one specific piece needed when on average getting a particular prime requires 4 parts(bp; barrel,helmet; stock,systems; receiver,chassis) that equates to no less that 12 different instances of factors working AGAINST us to acquire one weapon/frame.

 

So What we have here is a game who's entire design is to prevent you from obtaining what you want without a TREMENDOUS amount of factors working AGAINST you.

 

At least throw us a bone DE. Give us ONE reason to not just give up on the future of this game. Anticipation of new content is not enough of a reason to have us grind our keyboards to death.

[geninrising]

Something has been around for a very long time...

 

This thing is known as trading. DE has already solved the grind/RNG for prime parts, the only difference being that trading uses plat.

My point is that if trading becomes the only way to get the best gear in the game, it becomes pay 2 win. That is not okay. Already because of the high amount of grind necessary to get the items you need to become strong the game has a bad reputation of being pay 2 win.

 

Just because you CAN get things without spending money does not equate to pay for convenience as DE has stated tons of times.

The necessity of putting in 100 hrs to get a single mod (hello lethal Torrent) makes it prohibitive to acquire for a large portion of the community.

 

Now when we factor in continual additions to the void the percentage chance that you acquire the item that you want becomes less and less, thus increasing the already prohibitive nature of farming for a part/mod. 

 

What all this RNG does at this point is drive players out that might have deigned to support DE with platinum purchases in the future.

 

I buy plat all the time honestly so this is usually not the case with me, however if I just take the stance that everyone should just buy plat like me, then I accept the game as P2W and that is something I will fight against tooth and nail because it is ALWAYS the death of a game to get that reputation as a whole.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

My point is that if trading becomes the only way to get the best gear in the game, it becomes pay 2 win. That is not okay. Already because of the high amount of grind necessary to get the items you need to become strong the game has a bad reputation of being pay 2 win.

 

Just because you CAN get things without spending money does not equate to pay for convenience as DE has stated tons of times.

The necessity of putting in 100 hrs to get a single mod (hello lethal Torrent) makes it prohibitive to acquire for a large portion of the community.

 

Now when we factor in continual additions to the void the percentage chance that you acquire the item that you want becomes less and less, thus increasing the already prohibitive nature of farming for a part/mod. 

 

What all this RNG does at this point is drive players out that might have deigned to support DE with platinum purchases in the future.

 

I buy plat all the time honestly so this is usually not the case with me, however if I just take the stance that everyone should just buy plat like me, then I accept the game as P2W and that is something I will fight against tooth and nail because it is ALWAYS the death of a game to get that reputation as a whole.

1. Pay to win against what? The grineer?

2. The rarity of a mod raises its demand, and therefore its price. Platinum has to be bought somewhere, so DE gets cash for plat. Its all been planned.

3. Once again, this raises the price on prime parts, therefore getting players to buy more plat. DE gets the cash.

4. I have not paid a cent yet

5. See 1 and 4

[HuzzelMuzzel]

I like this idea, bumping for more attention.

[geninrising]

Sounding the call for more Feedback, don't forget to +1 the OP to ensure the DEVS see the communities idea regarding this feature without the need to run through endless walls o' text!

Edited January 8, 2015 by geninrising

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

+1,

u deserve a cookie

[geninrising]

Read this topic and upvote if you agree PLEASE folks, help save us from the RNG monster!

[geninrising]

Wow, the number of complaints I see about RNG grows daily, I wish more people would look at the forums. le sigh.

[geninrising]

Bump for more feedback!

[Loswaith]

Honestly DE may not want to go the ducat method for exchanging parts, as this could mean that you never have to get parts for the rare alternatives instead just farming high ducat return parts.

 

An alternative is simply to have an exchange on a complete item basis.  By this I mean trade say 4 parts (number is just a sugestion) from one piece of gear for another part of that same gear. 

In the case of nova prime you could trade say 3 nova prime chassis and a nova prime system for a nova prime helm, or 2 nova prime helms and 2 nova prime systems for a nova prime chassis.  However you could not trade say 2 rhino prime chassis, a frost prime helm and an ember prime systems for a Nova prime chassis or any other prime part, becuse they are not all from the same completed item.

 

This would mean you will have to farm for parts for that specific prime gear, however if you get lots of parts for that gear item, you could trade those excess parts for the missing piece you need to actually make the set.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Loswaith

[geninrising]

Honestly DE may not want to go the ducat method for exchanging parts, as this could mean that you never have to get parts for the rare alternatives instead just farming high ducat return parts.

 

An alternative is simply to have an exchange on a complete item basis.  By this I mean trade say 4 parts (number is just a sugestion) from one piece of gear for another part of that same gear. 

In the case of nova prime you could trade say 3 nova prime chassis and a nova prime system for a nova prime helm, or 2 nova prime helms and 2 nova prime systems for a nova prime chassis.  However you could not trade say 2 rhino prime chassis, a frost prime helm and an ember prime systems for a Nova prime chassis or any other prime part, becuse they are not all from the same completed item.

 

This would mean you will have to farm for parts for that specific prime gear, however if you get lots of parts for that gear item, you could trade those excess parts for the missing piece you need to actually make the set.

good Idea I will add this to op!

[geninrising]

updated original proposal to include another option presented by Loswaith that fits perhaps more appropriately.

[Ciaus]

I really like this idea! 
Even if it is quite strongly weighted, something that gives guarantee, playing against RNG really does feel like a crapshoot, but if you know your 5-10 random void rewards can get you what you want, there is progression and a reason to keep aiming for it. 

[geninrising]

If you like the idea make sure to +1!

[geninrising]

Heads up folks, looking for more feedback! If we do not make our voices clearly heard we cannot complain about the results!

[DSpite]

Read this topic and upvote if you agree PLEASE folks, help save us from the RNG monster!

 

 

Wow, the number of complaints I see about RNG grows daily, I wish more people would look at the forums. le sigh.

 

 

Bump for more feedback!

 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-community-rules-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/?p=3278537

 

"7) BUMPING - it is not condoned, but all cases of bumping issues will be handled case by case determined by the nature of the thread."

[SuperWeedy-EGT-]

Im going to step out of line here and say no. I think this would have a negative effect on Platinum sales (One can only speculate if it would actually be a substantial amount they sell less, but it certainly wouldnt boost sales thats for sure) 2nd it would reduce the amount of Plat I earn myself by selling the hottest prime gear up to date. Ive bought a decent enough amount of Platinum to support DE since starting Warframe and mainly earn my Plat through selling the newest Prime gear now. After a while you get used to the grind. First I get all the parts for myself, then start farming for parts to sell. And 3rd, this whole farming for rare and stronger parts IS the base concept of Warframe. If more people had all weapons and frames they would realize that there is nothing else to do. Grouping up with other players to reach a common goal is what Warframe is all about. Being able to just trade with an NPC would reduce the feeling of satisfaction that you get when your team pushed themeselves to the limit, and finally at 60 Min. T4 Survival that rare part pops up, the whole team working together like a clockwork with bullets flying in every direction and everyone is like "Hell yea!!"

[geninrising]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-community-rules-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/?p=3278537

 

"7) BUMPING - it is not condoned, but all cases of bumping issues will be handled case by case determined by the nature of the thread."

Actually, when seeking further feedback on a matter from the playerbase in order to attempt to come to a consensus among active players that utilize the forum or to ensure a matter is seen it is acceptable as I have found from my interactions with many different community moderators. Also seeing as how none of my threads have ever been locked and I have never received any kind of warning for anything I have done it would appear my idea on the matter is supported by said community.

 

Also sir I have another thing I will say, If you have nothing constructive to say on a matter then please feel free to cease and desist before you are reported for harassment. Please refrain from allowing your negativity on ANY matter from causing more individuals problems. It's fine to disagree on a point but telling people they are crying/whining/screaming is just childish.

 

Considering I have perused your posts both recent and past I can assure you that your negative attitude is far and away the reason others reported you and not your disagreements themselves. You have a nasty habit of attacking individuals simply because they post something you disagree with.

 

Please note that this post is in response to the behavior you have displayed in many posts.

Edited January 17, 2015 by geninrising

[geninrising]

Anyone else actually want to see a resolution on this dilution?

[geninrising]

Looking for additional suggestions of ways that we can work to improve gameplay enjoyment for all of us while still maintaining DE's bottom dollar folks. Speak up!

[Oberonight]

All I can say is yes. The RNG has become so atrociously dire that nearly any solution, good or not, is needed. ANYTHING is better than nightmare RNG we have now.

 

The fact that DE does nothing about RNG has infuriated me lately; there are so many amazing feedback threads with well thought out logical solutions backed by reliable scientific data yet DE completely ignores the feedback forum entirely and just lets each and every thread die as they carry on with their "false promise" policy demonstrated in nearly every Devstream.

[geninrising]

All I can say is yes. The RNG has become so atrociously dire that nearly any solution, good or not, is needed. ANYTHING is better than nightmare RNG we have now.

 

The fact that DE does nothing about RNG has infuriated me lately; there are so many amazing feedback threads with well thought out logical solutions backed by reliable scientific data yet DE completely ignores the feedback forum entirely and just lets each and every thread die as they carry on with their "false promise" policy demonstrated in nearly every Devstream.

The problem with your statement on DE letting the threads die is incorrect. It is the PLAYERS that let threads die. It is incumbent that we as players continue to make an issue known for as long as it takes to resolve said issue. Unfortunately we must treat these things like a dog with a bone and gnaw at them until they are no more.

[-Narauko-]

Two weeks wait for a trader that might...just MIGHT have something you want.

 

+1 I would like a Void Trader to do his job and trade.

[plznohurtme]

I don't like this solution from the standpoint of it not particularly fixing the real problem. This would also be a new thing they would have to balance and figure out a reasonable way to implement (because of weighted drops some items are much easier to get than others of the same set). I would much rather they spend the time to just fix the rng, because a weighted system is shady to begin with, but made infinitely worse by an expanding table.

That being said I'd like to see his inventory expanded as it seems silly waiting 2 weeks for a couple of mods and some cosmetic/weapon. Perhaps r5 legendary cores to go with the legendary mods... just something that is still going to be useful after we have the unique offerings. Otherwise he'll just be like the void... something not worth wasting time on once you have what you need.

[geninrising]

I don't like this solution from the standpoint of it not particularly fixing the real problem. This would also be a new thing they would have to balance and figure out a reasonable way to implement (because of weighted drops some items are much easier to get than others of the same set). I would much rather they spend the time to just fix the rng, because a weighted system is shady to begin with, but made infinitely worse by an expanding table.

That being said I'd like to see his inventory expanded as it seems silly waiting 2 weeks for a couple of mods and some cosmetic/weapon. Perhaps r5 legendary cores to go with the legendary mods... just something that is still going to be useful after we have the unique offerings. Otherwise he'll just be like the void... something not worth wasting time on once you have what you need.

I agree that the shady rng system is a problem that SHOULD be addressed but DE is against changing how they operate RNG as it is part of the system that generates them plat. RNG begets frustration which causes a desire to buy plat to mitigate the frustration. I understand all too well exactly why it is there and why it won't be changed. What I am trying to do is get us some way of alleviating it without marginally hurting their bottom dollar.

 

On the last comment I agree wholeheartedly. There will soon be nothing at all that we veteran players have to acquire from him that is worthwhile, unless they literally prime every 5 rank mod in the game to 10 ranks. For that matter they may prime the higher ranked mods like Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, and Reflex Guard as well.