Energy 2.0: The Anti-4 To Win And A Bit Of Balancing

[SageBanshee]

In my own opinion, freedom is privilege that is fought for. In other words freedom turns privileges into rights. The players do have the right to decide how they will play the game, but developers decide how effective said strategy is. When I ignored the frame abilities, everyone looked at me and said, "he chose... Poorly". Casters are too powerful, no matter how you slice it alpha.

[geninrising]

In my own opinion, freedom is privilege that is fought for. In other words freedom turns privileges into rights. The players do have the right to decide how they will play the game, but developers decide how effective said strategy is. When I ignored the frame abilities, everyone looked at me and said, "he chose... Poorly". Casters are too powerful, no matter how you slice it alpha.

 

This is kind of my stance as well.

I refuse to accept the fact that one player can completely cause another player to be unable to participate in the manner they find meaningful or fun.

 

Before anyone else chimes in that they can't or that ideal is obscure or overstated actually THINK about it.

 

Player A chooses AOE nuke style.

Player B chooses to go sword alone with emphasis on upping survivability.

 

Player A Zoren copters from point A to point B ults and continues the pattern.

Player B has no choice at this point but to follow along and end the mission asap.

 

It makes no sense to then force said player into segregating himself into a private lobby to avoid said behavior.

It's virtually a form of discrimination. Which is not an exaggeration, and is a clear reason why the proposal to make changes to energy or ultimates is asked for.

 

Unfortunately not all players see it as discrimination(because said players support spam) and therefore refuse to see the matter as such.

Changing enemies is not the issue and has little to no bearing on the subject as has clearly been shown by the spam not being alleviated since implementation of any of these supposed "soft fixes" such as nullifiers or eximus enemies. 

[AlphaHorseman]

In my own opinion, freedom is privilege that is fought for. In other words freedom turns privileges into rights. The players do have the right to decide how they will play the game, but developers decide how effective said strategy is. When I ignored the frame abilities, everyone looked at me and said, "he chose... Poorly". Casters are too powerful, no matter how you slice it alpha.

DE is slowly implementing enemy units that can't be finished off so easily. Eximi have been here before, draining energy, now with aura's on Disrupters that dampen 90% of AoE damage, I think, and Healers that shore up whatever damage we do to allied units. Now we have the introduction of Nullifiers. It's a start to making sure pressing one button repeatedly isn't effective. However, they're just a start to creating situations that are interesting for players to deal with, if we can continue to roll out enemies that can counter not just our powers, but make their encounters tactical, it's a far better solution than nerfing the player base, in my opinion. Another option was one I posted here in this thread, giving Corpus units a deploy able shield like how Alad V has in his Mutalist boss fight. A larger version, that once deployed allow a Corpus squad to use it as cover against our powers (CC immune) and guns. Outgoing Corpus projectiles would be buffed for damage output. Tenno squads would have to either shoot down the shield, or run around/vault over it and kill the squad from behind. Powers of course would only damage the shield, rather than hurting the units inside or applying CC.

 

Caster abilities have their own limitations, by nature and self imposed by player modification. Granted, highly built powers are going to wreck anything that isn't end-content, that's how we've built these powers. Guns have high single target damage (or even CC with the addition of punch through), flat out higher than all powers. For area damage, yes, powers have the potential to outclass guns in total damage, depending on the number of targets hit.

 

 

This is kind of my stance as well.

I refuse to accept the fact that one player can completely cause another player to be unable to participate in the manner they find meaningful or fun.

 

Before anyone else chimes in that they can't or that ideal is obscure or overstated actually THINK about it.

 

Player A chooses AOE nuke style.

Player B chooses to go sword alone with emphasis on upping survivability.

 

Player A Zoren copters from point A to point B ults and continues the pattern.

Player B has no choice at this point but to follow along and end the mission asap.

 

It makes no sense to then force said player into segregating himself into a private lobby to avoid said behavior.

It's virtually a form of discrimination. Which is not an exaggeration, and is a clear reason why the proposal to make changes to energy or ultimates is asked for.

 

Unfortunately not all players see it as discrimination(because said players support spam) and therefore refuse to see the matter as such.

Changing enemies is not the issue and has little to no bearing on the subject as has clearly been shown by the spam not being alleviated since implementation of any of these supposed "soft fixes" such as nullifiers or eximus enemies. 

 

Genin, remember that we don't always get people whose play styles complement our own. Best we can do is ask them to tone it down, or vault ahead and take in the enemies before they can. Or, y'know, join another PUB or create another group. Remember also that someone whose got a weapon maxed out with damage mods could also do that to a melee player. They could spray and pray a room before a melee player gets into range of the enemy units and zoren copter to the next room and do all the same.

 

Pretty much if you're going melee it's going to be difficult getting hits in with your allies being ranged combatants that can zoren ahead and clear the room before you can delve into the fight.

[geninrising]

Genin, remember that we don't always get people whose play styles complement our own. Best we can do is ask them to tone it down, or vault ahead and take in the enemies before they can. Or, y'know, join another PUB or create another group. Remember also that someone whose got a weapon maxed out with damage mods could also do that to a melee player. They could spray and pray a room before a melee player gets into range of the enemy units and zoren copter to the next room and do all the same.

 

Pretty much if you're going melee it's going to be difficult getting hits in with your allies being ranged combatants that can zoren ahead and clear the room before you can delve into the fight.

I realize this man but to be quite honest I just don't think that my being able to play the way I want should ever be predicated on being allowed to do so. Unfortunately the reality is that atm if I want to play how I enjoy it I must ask permission.

[AlphaHorseman]

I realize this man but to be quite honest I just don't think that my being able to play the way I want should ever be predicated on being allowed to do so. Unfortunately the reality is that atm if I want to play how I enjoy it I must ask permission.

Well, another avenue you can take when you're in a PUB is that you all can talk it out before the mission starts to see how you can play together nicely. After all, if you're in a co-op setting, it would be smart to be cooperative and talk to each other before the mission to plan things out. That way, voila, you all play well together and enjoy your time together because you all agreed to play together as such.

[(PSN)DanceOnUrGav3]

Something that I think would help prevent it spamming, is ability combos. If I knew that casting ice wave on my friend's hallowed ground would add a freeze proc to the hallowed ground, I'd use that combo alot in defense. Part of the problem, is that it's easy to just press 4, but another part is that there's no reason not to

[geninrising]

Well, another avenue you can take when you're in a PUB is that you all can talk it out before the mission starts to see how you can play together nicely. After all, if you're in a co-op setting, it would be smart to be cooperative and talk to each other before the mission to plan things out. That way, voila, you all play well together and enjoy your time together because you all agreed to play together as such.

Hence my statement that I must ask permission. I'm well aware how cooperation works Alpha, but there should never be any tactic that removes my choice in playstyle from participating. And please don't bring up the "but you can choose to leave if you don't like it" because you know good and well I should not have to segregate myself completely when it is not my style causing another person misery.

[AlphaHorseman]

Hence my statement that I must ask permission. I'm well aware how cooperation works Alpha, but there should never be any tactic that removes my choice in playstyle from participating. And please don't bring up the "but you can choose to leave if you don't like it" because you know good and well I should not have to segregate myself completely when it is not my style causing another person misery.

Haha, that actually was going to be my response. Sometimes the group you join a pub with isn't gonna jive with you. Sometimes you just gotta tough it out, or find a group that you do jive with. Who knows, that new group that you find might become your friends and clan mates if you guys like playing together so much.

 

One of my fears is that if they do touch powers that the community finds lacking, they'll "buff" it like how they did with Ember.

[geninrising]

Haha, that actually was going to be my response. Sometimes the group you join a pub with isn't gonna jive with you. Sometimes you just gotta tough it out, or find a group that you do jive with. Who knows, that new group that you find might become your friends and clan mates if you guys like playing together so much.

 

One of my fears is that if they do touch powers that the community finds lacking, they'll "buff" it like how they did with Ember.

Oh dear lord I will take a trip to Canada and burn this motherfuc|<er down. Ember is to me what Frost is to you man. I have over 300hrs on her alone and since WoF revision 1.0 I have not been able to play her without feeling sick. Literally getting nauseous.

[AlphaHorseman]

Oh dear lord I will take a trip to Canada and burn this motherfuc|<er down. Ember is to me what Frost is to you man. I have over 300hrs on her alone and since WoF revision 1.0 I have not been able to play her without feeling sick. Literally getting nauseous.

It's a growing fear now, first I wanted them to buff him, but if their definition of "buffing" was that, I fear for all our abilities. Her new ult has limitations not only in duration, but power efficiency and range and still has only a small amount of active target hits. I've seen people writing threads on how if you mod for duration the costs of using the power go up, and if you mod for efficiency the costs go down immensely. This wasn't what I hoped for. They built the power now to be so limited that it's functionality is dependent on efficiency, it seems. I was hoping that the buff would be a strong foundation, be a way to allow players to go for duration, damage, range, or efficiency. They could build in any direction, but with this...I don't know. I haven't play tested it yet, but everyone I've spoken with so far just tells me they can't build for it because there's so many limitations on it that improving one aspect of her WoF also gimps it in one way or the other.

Edited January 22, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Astrotrap]

However much you might disagree with the suggestion, you guys have to admit... it would make Flow's name make more sense.

[RiouHotaru]

Honestly, spamming 4 only works on a handful of frames and is only sustainable if you have energy to spare, even with efficiency, you'll eventually run out.  That is, unless you have Trinity, but let's be honest, Trinity utterly breaks the game anyway.

 

There are plenty of frames with 1, 2, and 3's that are useable and worth using.  Nyx, Loki, Volt, Frost, Mesa, etc.

[geninrising]

It's a growing fear now, first I wanted them to buff him, but if their definition of "buffing" was that, I fear for all our abilities. Her new ult has limitations not only in duration, but power efficiency and range and still has only a small amount of active target hits. I've seen people writing threads on how if you mod for duration the costs of using the power go up, and if you mod for efficiency the costs go down immensely. This wasn't what I hoped for. They built the power now to be so limited that it's functionality is dependent on efficiency, it seems. I was hoping that the buff would be a strong foundation, be a way to allow players to go for duration, damage, range, or efficiency. They could build in any direction, but with this...I don't know. I haven't play tested it yet, but everyone I've spoken with so far just tells me they can't build for it because there's so many limitations on it that improving one aspect of her WoF also gimps it in one way or the other.

Honestly I feel like they are testing the waters to see just how far they can go with a rework of one of the constant use ultimates. There is no way in hell they would have ever tried previously to straight up nerf a power that the community already told them was pure sh|t. You may have more to fear than you expect. I mean DERebecca came on and implored people to try it  before complaining but honestly anyone with any experience with Ember can see that just on paper alone it is already a huge nerf to her ultimate and in no way can be seen as a positive change.

 

If you build her for duration, efficiency is horrible. If you build her for efficiency, duration is horrible. If you build for Duration counter with efficiency and counter the duration negative from narrowminded with overextended you burn your DPS to the ground. They literally built this iteration of the ult to get WRECKED by corrupted builds. The problem is that they built it to get wrecked by normal builds as well.

 

There is literally no positive means of setting up this frame which makes her ult viable in any way.

Edited January 22, 2015 by geninrising

[--Q--uaint]

I think a large part of this whole issue would be fixed by making the affinity/kill grow much more linearly with level than it does now, so higher level content is more appealing.

Then all you have to do is add a difficulty slider, and viola.

 

This will result in people who want to farm affinity doing survivals starting at level 50 or whatever, and not just fapping pressing 4 for minutes on end.

 

 

An addendum: Perhaps DE could pick a "balance point" in enemy level, and from there look at the damage done by each ability to an average enemy.

Once this is done, they could make the skills have a scheme like:

1st power: 100% percentage-based damage

2nd power: 75% percentage-based damage, 25% base damage

3rd power: 50-50 split

4th power: 25% percentage-based damage, 75% base damage

 

This would, if implemented, mean that a Slashdash modded to the point where it would be lethal to an enemy at the "balance point" right now would be able to kill any standard enemy in one hit. This would promote use of damage skills late-game, and give people the tools they need to do well in that (now more desireable and easier to access) high level content.

Edited January 22, 2015 by ChronoEclipse