Bring Back Iron Skin Face Tanking

[SIDESTRE4M]

Hall of mirrors doesn't protect you from bombards. I tried it on Ceres, just running around and taking hits. The enemies sneak in some damage. At thst 'some' can sum up pretty fast, especially later in T4.

[Renegade343]

Hall of mirrors doesn't protect you from bombards. I tried it on Ceres, just running around and taking hits. The enemies sneak in some damage. At thst 'some' can sum up pretty fast, especially later in T4.

Of course it cannot protect you from AoE damage, but for the most part (i.e.: 90% of enemies), you just divert fire away from the actual Mirage. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

Here we are again... comparing Rhino to Mirage.

 

Why don't we switch her with Mesa or Trinity for some variety.

[Renegade343]

Here we are again... comparing Rhino to Mirage.

 

Why don't we switch her with Mesa or Trinity for some variety.

Which we kind of already did?

 

I mean, you could compare Rhino to just about every other Warframe that has some form of tanking ability, and I think we are quite well into that in some of the posts. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

The thing is: 

 

We all did comparisons. You guys only compare one skill, others compare the whole frame.

 

And in the end, either is used as argument pro or con.

 

Holeypaladin said, it's no problem finding dark spots, thus Mirage tanking is reliable. Some pages later, he states the same, but in the end he had to adjust his playstyle, because it's not so reliable.

 

This thread is dead for me. I recommend the others to start a fresh topic with their ideas.

[Holeypaladin]

It's not unreasonable to assume the bare minimum skill required to play each frame.

 

It takes practically no skill whatsoever to keep Mirage in the shadows.

 

It takes practically no skill whatsoever for Mesa to focus on killing melee units before they get close, or duck out of the way of the occasional grenade.

 

It takes practically no skill whatsoever to stay out of nullifiers and kill them before they step too close to you.

 

It takes practically no skill whatsoever to spam 4 to win as Valkyr.

 

As far as Trinity goes, she has two skills.  Stackable DR.  And an unlimited energy loop.  With no drawbacks to any of these skills.  And it takes practically no skill whatsoever to use any of these skills and outclass the DR of just about anything, including Rhino.

 

It doesn't take any skill to use iron skin, sure.  But it's not like it takes a crapton of skill to exceed iron skin's DR, either.  All of the above frames can do it with ease, at least 80% of the time, with a bare minimum skill requirement.

 

As a tank, Rhino should exceed the DR of all of them, 100% of the time.  He doesn't.  That means he's broken.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[SIDESTRE4M]

Then how about you provide some actual info, what exactly you want to be able to tank and how long?

 

(I hope you won't tell me T4 40min for several seconds.)

[Holeypaladin]

That question is entirely too situational.

 

I should not have to use iron skin more than once every 30 seconds on any mission where the enemies are between level 40 and 45.

 

Why 30 seconds?  Because Link lasts 36 seconds.  Shatter shield lasts 70 seconds.  Eclipse lasts 56 seconds.  Hysteria lasts 77 seconds.  30 seconds is shorter than all of them.

 

Considering how much enemy fire iron skin draws (or is supposed to draw), in order to last a full 30 seconds it needs to have some very effective DR.  1200 doesn't cut it at all in the 40-45 range, end up recasting it every 3-5 seconds or so when you start taking hits.  While it's true that iron skin is not currently duration based, it's inferior to everything that is duration-based except on very low level maps.

 

But a simple maxed redirection is sufficient to survive all those lower level maps without taking any damage anyway since Rhino has nearly 1200 shields with no ferrite armor penalties to shield damage.  He doesn't even need to use iron skin if he has maxed redirection.  So it's a pretty redundant skill at high levels.

[geninrising]

Here we are again... comparing Rhino to Mirage.

 

Why don't we switch her with Mesa or Trinity for some variety.

Because it does not matter. Veterans will tell you that Rhino is the best tank of any frames for good reason. He has all the tools necessary to handle damage mitigation which is what constitutes a tank in this game. He has the ability to get where he needs to and stop incoming damage in several ways. Just because people play him incorrectly they think he is bad at this. I can tell you from over 1k hrs experience with all iterations of Rhino that this is not the case, however I can say I wish they would bring back Blast instead of his current roar. Blast was an integral part of my skill set that is sorely missed and I feel like something massive was stolen from Rhino when they combined his 3 and 4.

 

tl;dr why not look at replacing Roar instead if you guys want a strict tank?

[geninrising]

That question is entirely too situational.

 

I should not have to use iron skin more than once every 30 seconds on any mission where the enemies are between level 40 and 45.

 

Why 30 seconds?  Because Link lasts 36 seconds.  Shatter shield lasts 70 seconds.  Eclipse lasts 56 seconds.  Hysteria lasts 77 seconds.  30 seconds is shorter than all of them.

 

Considering how much enemy fire iron skin draws (or is supposed to draw), in order to last a full 30 seconds it needs to have some very effective DR.  1200 doesn't cut it at all in the 40-45 range, end up recasting it every 3-5 seconds or so when you start taking hits.  While it's true that iron skin is not currently duration based, it's inferior to everything that is duration-based except on very low level maps.

 

But a simple maxed redirection is sufficient to survive all those lower level maps without taking any damage anyway since Rhino has nearly 1200 shields with no ferrite armor penalties to shield damage.  He doesn't even need to use iron skin if he has maxed redirection.  So it's a pretty redundant skill at high levels.

Actually you should and here's why. Combat is balanced for facing level 30 enemies and is not balanced in any way for combat beyond that point.

 

Beyond that mark is is incumbent upon the player to use SKILL to survive. Skill as in actual mechanical mastery not p#2W. Thus CC skills will be far more useful than straight damage mitigation or damage abilities.

 

Another thing, stop trying to bring other frames down to get Rhino into some top tier place that unfortunately only exists in your imagination.

 

Rhino is in fact in a healthy place that requires a large amount of skill to utilize beyond the star chart. In fact I feel that most frames are in this sweet spot where successful use of said frames is predicated on player skill primarily. We should actually be looking at what skills that need to be changed versus what need improvements. IMO Roar does not fit Rhino thematically ATM.

 

What if we made Roar into an AOE aggro draw within 20m that provides X amount DR that applies to IS, as well as Rhino's shields, and his health?

Thus preventing IS from becoming too powerful as a singular ability and requiring synergy of various abilities to properly tank. This would in a way prevent p22w. 

[Holeypaladin]

 

What if we made Roar into an AOE aggro draw within 20m that provides X amount DR that applies to IS, as well as Rhino's shields, and his health?

Thus preventing IS from becoming too powerful as a singular ability and requiring synergy of various abilities to properly tank. This would in a way prevent p22w. 

That's quite possibly the best suggestion I've seen so far.

 

Just make the DR scale to power strength, and it's perfect.  Even if it's just an augment mod that adds this aggro and DR to the current roar, it's still perfect.

 

The other way I was thinking is to greatly increase the EHP of iron skin... but have it expire after a given duration.  Similar to the old iron skin that wore off after a base 15 seconds, or the new snow globe which has both EHP and duration.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[SIDESTRE4M]

Because it does not matter. Veterans will tell you that Rhino is the best tank of any frames for good reason. He has all the tools necessary to handle damage mitigation which is what constitutes a tank in this game. He has the ability to get where he needs to and stop incoming damage in several ways. Just because people play him incorrectly they think he is bad at this. I can tell you from over 1k hrs experience with all iterations of Rhino that this is not the case, however I can say I wish they would bring back Blast instead of his current roar. Blast was an integral part of my skill set that is sorely missed and I feel like something massive was stolen from Rhino when they combined his 3 and 4.

 

tl;dr why not look at replacing Roar instead if you guys want a strict tank?

 

I think you got something wrong. I'm with ya.

[Ronyn]

Because it does not matter. Veterans will tell you that Rhino is the best tank of any frames for good reason. He has all the tools necessary to handle damage mitigation which is what constitutes a tank in this game. He has the ability to get where he needs to and stop incoming damage in several ways. Just because people play him incorrectly they think he is bad at this. I can tell you from over 1k hrs experience with all iterations of Rhino that this is not the case, however I can say I wish they would bring back Blast instead of his current roar. Blast was an integral part of my skill set that is sorely missed and I feel like something massive was stolen from Rhino when they combined his 3 and 4.

 

tl;dr why not look at replacing Roar instead if you guys want a strict tank?

 

Actually you should and here's why. Combat is balanced for facing level 30 enemies and is not balanced in any way for combat beyond that point.

 

Beyond that mark is is incumbent upon the player to use SKILL to survive. Skill as in actual mechanical mastery not p#2W. Thus CC skills will be far more useful than straight damage mitigation or damage abilities.

 

Another thing, stop trying to bring other frames down to get Rhino into some top tier place that unfortunately only exists in your imagination.

 

Rhino is in fact in a healthy place that requires a large amount of skill to utilize beyond the star chart. In fact I feel that most frames are in this sweet spot where successful use of said frames is predicated on player skill primarily. We should actually be looking at what skills that need to be changed versus what need improvements. IMO Roar does not fit Rhino thematically ATM.

 

What if we made Roar into an AOE aggro draw within 20m that provides X amount DR that applies to IS, as well as Rhino's shields, and his health?

Thus preventing IS from becoming too powerful as a singular ability and requiring synergy of various abilities to properly tank. This would in a way prevent p22w. 

I don't think all veterans are in full agreement on much of anything. LOL

And I still don't think it's that simple to say where the endgame level really should be set to...

 

I don't have an issue with roar thematically nor do I think that a true tank has to forgo all other potential utility.

But at any rate, your idea for roar is quite interesting. Making sure roar has some synergy with tanking would be great.

Though I reiterate, I use the other three abilities in concert for tanking. Initiate, withstand, control>That's good tanking. 

And on that note I saw a suggestion by someone that Charge could deflect incoming damage from the front while active.

Would make initiating on attacking enemies better and worse based on timing...and I'm all for adding skill to effectiveness.

 

Oh and hey, as another person who misses blast I find iron shrapnel to be quite similar in function when used that way.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ronyn

[Holeypaladin]

So iron skin can be left alone if this augment is added to the game:

 

Challenging Shout

When Roar is activated, all enemies (or perhaps up to ten) within Roar's radius are affected by Taunt, forcing them to attack Rhino.  Rhino gains 7.5% DR for every enemy taunted, up to a maximum of 75% for ten enemies.  This affect expires when roar expires, and is affected by power strength, providing a maximum DR of 95% (unless power strength scaling is removed from eclipse and shatter shield, in that case it can be removed from this augment as well).

 

 

 

By the way, I'd consider Ronyn and myself to be Veteran Rhino players.  And he's right in saying we don't necessarily agree on the same things.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Bobtm]

So iron skin can be left alone if this augment is added to the game:

 

Challenging Shout

When Roar is activated, all enemies (or perhaps up to ten) within Roar's radius are affected by Taunt, forcing them to attack Rhino.  Rhino gains 7.5% DR for every enemy taunted, up to a maximum of 75% for ten enemies.  This affect expires when roar expires, and is affected by power strength, providing a maximum DR of 95% (unless power strength scaling is removed from eclipse and shatter shield, in that case it can be removed from this augment as well).

 

 

 

By the way, I'd consider Ronyn and myself to be Veteran Rhino players.  And he's right in saying we don't necessarily agree on the same things.

 

95% is, when placed atop a shielding which denies damage to the player while blocking all cc, far and away too much damage resistance.  The suggestion noted in your post would make Rhino literally invulnerable.

 

Not gonna be longwinded this time, it's not worth the effort.  Stop asking for invulnerability, it will never happen.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Bobtm

[(PSN)GreenSoup2HoT]

Rhino needs face tank. I liked the old ironskin. It was fun. If they made it so he pulled aggro it would make playing as a group way better.

Frost also needs bubble back. People with frost just spam bubble for 4 second immunity. So theres iterally no difference. Just makes gameplay for frost terrible. he sits there and spamms snowglobe. People say its op and unfair.. its fun. Just ramp up the energy drain or make other sheild units have a invincible sheild aswell. Its funner gameplay. Like vaubans vortex is just as op to infested as snowglobe was to corpus and grineer.

Pvp will be revamped completely in time so these abiltys wont work the same. Look at the latest devstream.

[geninrising]

I don't think all veterans are in full agreement on much of anything. LOL

And I still don't think it's that simple to say where the endgame level really should be set to...

 

I don't have an issue with roar thematically nor do I think that a true tank has to forgo all other potential utility.

But at any rate, your idea for roar is quite interesting. Making sure roar has some synergy with tanking would be great.

Though I reiterate, I use the other three abilities in concert for tanking. Initiate, withstand, control>That's good tanking. 

And on that note I saw a suggestion by someone that Charge could deflect incoming damage from the front while active.

Would make initiating on attacking enemies better and worse based on timing...and I'm all for adding skill to effectiveness.

 

Oh and hey, as another person who misses blast I find iron shrapnel to be quite similar in function when used that way.

The problem with your statement is that DE has already clearly stated their balance points and thus we must adhere to said philosophy as well.

DE refuses to balance anything for places beyond the normal star map so anything else is all skill. That's a fact and one we must deal with.

 

 

So iron skin can be left alone if this augment is added to the game:

 

Challenging Shout

When Roar is activated, all enemies (or perhaps up to ten) within Roar's radius are affected by Taunt, forcing them to attack Rhino.  Rhino gains 7.5% DR for every enemy taunted, up to a maximum of 75% for ten enemies.  This affect expires when roar expires, and is affected by power strength, providing a maximum DR of 95% (unless power strength scaling is removed from eclipse and shatter shield, in that case it can be removed from this augment as well).

 

 

 

By the way, I'd consider Ronyn and myself to be Veteran Rhino players.  And he's right in saying we don't necessarily agree on the same things.

Ronyn I can accept as a Veteran Rhino player. You I will not. The simple fact that you want everyone else dragged below Rhino tells me that you are not in touch with how the game is SUPPOSED to be played at all. Further more your constant exaggerations are quite sickening and therefore your suggestions will be totally ignored by me from this point onward. The bold portion is your biggest mistake. Every frame should be balanced and handled separately, having no effect on design choices implemented on other frames.

 

Those other frames are not getting in Rhino' sway. They do not impact him in any stretch of the imagination, nor are they as effective as a tank and damage mitigator.

Edited January 24, 2015 by geninrising

[Holeypaladin]

There's no such thing as "balance" when every thing is "handled separately."  That's pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

Nothing is an island.  Every change to every frame relates to how every other frame is played.  Otherwise, there's no logical reason to ever choose a given frame when others can outperform it.  I've already mathematically proven that they outperform him as a damage mitigator.  

 

960 * 20 = mathematical proof that Eclipse is better damage mitigation than iron skin.  

1680 * 4 = mathematical proof that link is better mitigation than iron skin.  

ANYTHING times INFINITY = mathematical  proof that hysteria is better mitigation than ANYTHING

600 * 20 = mathematical proof that shatter shield is better mitigation than iron skin WITHOUT EVEN USING HEALTH AND SHIELD MODS!

 

How can you still argue with mathematical proof?  It just proves your ignorance when the truth is right in front of you and you call it a lie.  Two of the above powers require very minor play style adjustments that any idiot could make, while the other two are just outright better in every single circumstance.

 

Veteran means "have played a lot and have extensive experience."  So I qualify by the very definition of the word.  Different experiences produce different results, but experience is experience and it's the only defining factor in the definition of the word "Veteran".

Edited January 24, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[geninrising]

Rhino needs face tank. I liked the old ironskin. It was fun. If they made it so he pulled aggro it would make playing as a group way better.

Frost also needs bubble back. People with frost just spam bubble for 4 second immunity. So theres iterally no difference. Just makes gameplay for frost terrible. he sits there and spamms snowglobe. People say its op and unfair.. its fun. Just ramp up the energy drain or make other sheild units have a invincible sheild aswell. Its funner gameplay. Like vaubans vortex is just as op to infested as snowglobe was to corpus and grineer.

Pvp will be revamped completely in time so these abiltys wont work the same. Look at the latest devstream.

Actually Frost's snowglobe if utilized properly does not need to be spammed in order to be effective. My build utilizes quite a bit of duration and all of it's other effective mods. When enemy fire actually starts to hit the pod is when you should pop snow globe so that it is given damage for absorption. Pretty much only people that have no duration in build need to spam and that hurts frost in the long run in my experience. I utilize a blind rage build for my frost and perform quite well to wave 75 without spamming the invulnerability period through skillful timing of application of the globe.

 

Honestly I could see giving Rhino's IS the absorption factor from Frost's snow globe IF and it's a big if, that was the only change whatsoever to IS. That would give Rhino SOME scaling ability and reward skillful application over activate and make sure it's on constantly. It would require Rhino players activate it when under fire rather than PRIOR to any engagements. Additionally through the use of Iron Shrapnel Rhino would get an additional CC ability to add to his already amazing kit.

 

So I envision combat like this...

Rhino charges into range pops roar immediately followed by an IS. Once the absorption time is ended Rhino can pop IS through Iron Shrapnel to cause MASSIVE damage in LoS due to the absorption or he can keep the larger IS to allow picking up friendlies or handling larger targets that Iron Shrapnel would not have killed. There would be a massive skill component added to Rhino's kit and make him flat out awesome to use!

Edited January 24, 2015 by geninrising

[geninrising]

There's no such thing as "balance" when every thing is "handled separately."  That's pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

Nothing is an island.  Every change to every frame relates to how every other frame is played.  Otherwise, there's no logical reason to ever choose a given frame when others can outperform it.

 

Veteran means "have played a lot and have extensive experience."  So I qualify by the very definition of the word.  Different experiences produce different results, but experience is experience and it's the only defining factor in the definition of the word "Veteran".

Veteran indicates a player that is SKILLED in application of existing mechanics. A portion of that is time and experience yes, but you have clearly shown through your various exaggerations that you do not qualify on the skill portion, otherwise you would not make such grossly inaccurate statements.

 

Also lets clarify your point of balance. Balance in this game regarding frames is derived from balancing said frames skill set versus enemies of a certain level and has nothing at all to do with other frames. FRAMES ARE NOT BALANCED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. Now once the conclave/pvp team gets really rolling on their pvp balances for Dark Sectors and conclaves THEN frames will be balanced against one another IN PVP ONLY.

 

Otherwise it is not possible for you to use one frame versus another for issues of balance because the developers do not regardless of what you want.

[Holeypaladin]

FRAMES ARE NOT BALANCED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. 

When this is the case, it's a serious, major design flaw.  One that should be corrected.  Because every frame should have its place, none should ever be considered obsolete, useless, or overshadowed by a superior frame.

 

But because they aren't balanced against one another, I have already stopped playing Rhino in favor of better frames.  I'd like to return to playing him some day, but until his design flaws are corrected and he's balanced against OTHER FRAMES, there's no freaking point.  Because other frames out-perform him.

 

It's impossible to determine my skill in anything if you've never played with me, by the way.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[geninrising]

95% is, when placed atop a shielding which denies damage to the player while blocking all cc, far and away too much damage resistance.  The suggestion noted in your post would make Rhino literally invulnerable.

 

Not gonna be longwinded this time, it's not worth the effort.  Stop asking for invulnerability, it will never happen.

Oh I'm not suggesting 95% or even 90% honestly. I would suggest starting at 50% and scaling it up from there to a healthy point if necessary. 50% would be a far improvement over where he is currently especially considering it would apply to shields as well.

 

However What would be necessary is having a highly skilled Rhino player that is very capable of surviving just fine with the current kit without issue perform the testing. I do not in any way want another invulnerable frame and currently I feel that almost anything else we give Rhino puts him back to godtank status.

Edited January 24, 2015 by geninrising

[geninrising]

When this is the case, it's a serious, major design flaw.  One that should be corrected.  Because every frame should have its place, none should ever be considered obsolete, useless, or overshadowed by a superior frame.

 

But because they aren't balanced against one another, I have already stopped playing Rhino in favor of better frames.  I'd like to return to playing him some day, but until his design flaws are corrected and he's balanced against OTHER FRAMES, there's no freaking point.  Because other frames out-perform him.

 

It's impossible to determine my skill in anything if you've never played with me, by the way.

I'm going to address the last statement first. Clearly sir due to your exaggerations and demands you appear to be quite an unskilled player at utilizing a frame you are taking it upon yourself to critique and try to balance. In my experience in WF the only players that cannot use Rhino as a whole are the ones that try to "facetank" or eat bullets. Such a person is quite commonly the least skilled player in a mission and constantly complains about how IS is not enough to tank with Rhino, or that IS is waaay too weak. We have continuously broached ideas here that are balanced and quite strong and every time you continue to make suggestions that are imbalanced and over powered. Often you make said suggestions and in the same idea present severe nerfs to other frames all to "feel like a top tier tank". Get this through your head first before you speak about skill, the very concepts that you present TELL me that you are unskilled and do not have the capacity to accurately gauge the worth of abilities. Thus far the only thing you seem to take into account is the numbers on paper and not their physical application. 

 

Once again what you are asking the dev's to do would cause just that. By balancing versus content instead of other frames the devs are able to ensure that the vision of each different frame remains intact without concerns like "but rhino's not as good as the others".

 

Each frame serves a niche which needs to be maintained no matter what. Mirage and Mesa are damage frames while Rhino is a tank/support that helps his team through various methods of damage mitigation and has a way to reach locations that cannot be prevented by enemies body blocking. His Roar also serves as an abstract form of damage mitigation because it allows his teammates to end various threats more efficiently.

 

tl;dr Your ideas prove you do not have the experience and skill to be making decisions on revisions for frames, nor do you even understand how balance works in this game.

Edited January 24, 2015 by geninrising

[Holeypaladin]

Mirage and Mesa are damage frames while Rhino is a tank/support that helps his team through various methods of damage mitigation and has a way to reach locations that cannot be prevented by enemies body blocking. His Roar also serves as an abstract form of damage mitigation because it allows his teammates to end various threats more efficiently.

Everything you described Rhino as is outclassed by Nova.

 

Nova can easily reach locations.

 

Nova mitigates damage by slowing enemies.

 

Nova also makes it easier to kill threats by making the enemies take a lot more damage.

 

So you contradicted yourself, since Rhino obviously has no niche to himself, everything you described him as being good at, Nova is much better at.

[Bobtm]

Oh I'm not suggesting 95% or even 90% honestly. I would suggest starting at 50% and scaling it up from there to a health point if necessary.

However What would be necessary is having a highly skilled Rhino player that is very capable of surviving just fine with the current kit without issue perform the testing. I do not in any way want another invulnerable frame and currently I feel that almost anything else we give Rhino puts him back to godtank status.

 

I know, you've got sensible numbers and a good approach.  I directly quoted Holey there as he specified having it reach 95%, it's a number he's locked in on purely because another frame has a way of reaching a conditional 95%.  Everyone with a lick of sense knows tossing a hard 95% atop IS without any other conditions of meritable downfall is absurd  XD

 

There's no such thing as "balance" when every thing is "handled separately."  That's pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

Nothing is an island.  Every change to every frame relates to how every other frame is played.  Otherwise, there's no logical reason to ever choose a given frame when others can outperform it.

 

In a poetic way, you're countering your own arguements here.  You're saying you can't isolate things and must take all facets of a given frame into account, thusly also comparing frames to other frames in terms of inherent effectiveness within varied realms.  We actually agree here, and it's strange to say I agree with you after having effectively disagreed with you at every turn up till this point.

 

However, thus far throughout the entirety of this very thread, you are isolating things and comparing them as though they're individualized "islands".  Take your own advice and broaden your scope here, instead of looking at only the variables you want to look at, otherwise you're never going to make any headway towards your intended goal.

 

On numerous occasions you have vehemently and adamantly demanded that Rhino has no less DR% than any other DR%, when only looking at each as though it were an "island".  This is what you just said not to do, and it's why I've been entirely against your ideas this whole time.  For one you're always ignoring every facet of each individually noted "tank" skill, and beyond that you're also ignoring all facets of each given frame to which these skills belong.

 

To start, let us actively look at Iron Skin in detail in its current state.

 

• It provides a barrier which is destructible 
• This barrier, whilst active absorbs any and all damage incurred to the player 
• The player is also granted immunity to proc and CC effects whilst wearing this barrier 
• The barrier bears no negative effects from Duration loss 
• The barrier cannot be refreshed whilst active 
• The casting animation speed for this ability is of a comparable speed with other defensive abilities 
• This ability's animation doesn't hamper momentum to a large degree 
• This ability can be cast while airborne 

 

 

That... well that's a long list of advantages with no real disadvantages to note.  For the most part Rhino's Iron Skin would be classified as a non-conditional shielding ability.  He really suffers no drawbacks at all whilst activating it, but greatly increases his own survivability.  Combined with its modest casting speed the shielding it provides can more than serve to allow Rhino to survive much longer than most other frames.  A lot of players make the mistake of comparing Rhino's EHP value to Valkyr for instance, however if you take into account the ability of Rhino to repeat cast succcessive IS instances... well he even outpaces her in this realm.

 

Now let's take a look at Mesa's Shatter Shield 

• Provides Damage Resistance as a % 
• This skill's DR value is modified by Power Strength 
• The ability's mitigation only applies to specified ranged attacks 
• Grenades will not have reduced damage when hitting the user of this ability
• This skill does not indemnify the user from any form of CC or proc effects
• The casting animation of this ability is in-line with that of other defensive abilities of comparable usability 
• This ability's animation doesn't hamper momentum to a large degree(to my knowledge) 
• This ability can be cast while airborne

 

So there's that, a fine ability but with notable drawbacks.  Note here, you Holey have time and time again claimed that Rhino needs to be able to reach the same 95% as Mesa is able to in order to be "effective" yet there's a lot more to note than that.  Rhino has quite a few more advantages when you look at the two, while having none of the drawbacks that Mesa does.  This is a direct instance of the literal opposite of the supposed mentality with which you claim to approach balance.

 

I could further paramount the example by doing the same breakdown for Mirage, and for Trinity, but for now I'll stop here.  Of course I'm only stopping on this specified front, as there's more to the issue than just one ability in comparison like this.

 

As already noted;  You need to look at what the frames are capable of in their entirety when compared to one another.

 

Rhino has access to a more than viable CC ability in his 4.  This is something that none of the other "tanky" frames you compare him to can lay claim to.  Of course they have their own abilities which serve their own purposes as well, as does Rhino.

 

Suggesting the numbers you've continued to suggest throughout this thread do not, in any light, follow suit with your alleged balancing mentality.  Take a step back and reevaluate your stance on this issue accordingly.