About Void Keys From Syndicates - A Suggestion

[Krak_Nihilus]

Let’s say at the beginning that the previous system was too cheap ineed, but what we got on voting is going from one extreme to other. And both of those propositions are a straight !@#$%^&* (finish this part yourself, I won’t write this here to keep good taste of this thread) to players. So I decided to make my own proposition and see what people think about it.

We should start by giving syndicates more than one key tier. Because really, tier 4 is supposed to be the rarest there is, but it’s the only they can spend for you? So let’s give them  all four tiers. What about prices? My propositions:

 

5x t1 – 5k standing

5x t2 – 10 k standing

5x t3 – 15 k standing

1x t4 – 10k standing

 

So now the prices for one key of a given tier are:

 

t1 – 1k

t2 – 2k

t3 – 3k

t4 – 10k

 

Alternatively t4 may cost 15k standing if you feel like 10k for one key is too cheap. But I’d like to point out that making it 10k is already multiplying  the previous price by 10.T3 may cost 4k if you like it more.

Keys for t1-3 can be sold individually for prices per one key or in a pack of 5, which ever you, DE, prefer. But personally I’d like individual keys. Or maybe both, so that buyer can decide.

 

Tiers of keys should be unlocked with your rank at syndicate. So at rank 2 you get acces to t1 keys, at rank 3 you can buy t2 keys, and so on. At max rank, rank 5, you can finally buy t4 keys. After spending all the time, credits, resources and prime parts, you’ve rightfully earned it, but it’s still not cheap.

 

Which mission typ eis determined by syndicate as before, but make the mission types rotate between syndicates in time. They don’t have endless keys for one mission type while not having a single one of others, right? Mission type in one syndicate may vary by tiers.

 

Off topic – if you like this idea like it and possibly bump it, so that more people and possibly someone from DE will see it. And God help maybe they’ll change their mind. Also maybe we can make it a hot topic this way.

 

And as always - let me know what you think.

Krak_Nihilus

 

Edit: I forgot to mention - it also helps with RNG in getting keys, but doesn't make running missins for keys obsolote due to daily standing gain cap. It helps with one of the grind walls while still letting it be there and have a reason to exist. To make running missions not obsolote even with this you could keep sabotage out of offers. But there really is nothing so awesome about void sabotage ever since we don't get second chance for end mission reward for the third cache.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Krak_Nihilus

[Tyrian3k]

Sounds good.

I just feel like DE has a bad habit of dual wielding ther nerfhammers. Nerf the gain and buff the price, both at once.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

I totally disagree. Option 2 with the 3 keys is a great way to get the keys while keeping them reasonable. The simple fact that tower sabotage is in the mix makes it all worth it IMO.

[Krak_Nihilus]

I totally disagree. Option 2 with the 3 keys is a great way to get the keys while keeping them reasonable. The simple fact that tower sabotage is in the mix makes it all worth it IMO.

 

Yes, and your chances of getting it will be 1:20 with our belowed weighted RNGesus.

[geninrising]

The problem I'm having period is the inherent RNG that all of the options present. No one has stated anything about the fact that they will probably be weighted like void key rewards are. All signs point to getting screwed but meh whatevs. RNG is our supreme god in this game and the only difficulty we face, wish it were not true but it is. Hopefully the new Raids they are working on will be an utter s@#tstorm where players win or fail based on skill alone without them being dumbed down to where just anyone can participate and complete it with spam of bullets or powers.

[geninrising]

Yes, and your chances of getting it will be 1:20 with our belowed weighted RNGesus.

However your given idea still does not address the whole infinite loop of t4 runs that made DE remove the keys in the first place. With prev method you got 5 keys for one run, with your method you can get 2 keys with one determined run which means the whole party can get 10 free runs(total) for expending 1 key. 

[Krak_Nihilus]

However your given idea still does not address the whole infinite loop of t4 runs that made DE remove the keys in the first place. With prev method you got 5 keys for one run, with your method you can get 2 keys with one determined run which means the whole party can get 10 free runs(total) for expending 1 key.

True, but only partially. The " infinite loop" never actually existed due to daily standing gain cap. And getting 10k standing in one run is not easy, let alone 20k, even if you're using exp booster. Also such standing gain is possible only in endless modes, and come on, who plays 10 t4 survival to 40 min (around where you can get 10k standing with exp booster) in one day? I doubt that even hardcore grinders do that.

[Lypiphera]

When they allowed rep to be gained at 10x their original balanced value they really messed up for not increasing the cost of the keys. True, a direct 10x cost increase could have been a bit overboard, since they created a daily cap, but the cost really needed to be drastically increased. With the exception of sprinting through the T4C, using a set of keys could provide nearly enough rep to buy another new set or in the case of the endless missions greatly exceed the amount.

I would have no problem with 10k for a T4 key, but think the others are too cheap given how easy it is to obtain rep. Those who run Cap and Ext for credits would simply buy 3 T3s for less than a T4, same could be said of farming for Ducats (assuming you needed to). I think it should be something like:

T1 - 4k

T2 - 6k

T3 - 8k

T4 - 10k

Or perhaps even only 1k difference between tiers, starting with T4 at 10k down to 7k for a T1. Getting the opportunity to purchase those other tiers is invaluable as we would no longer have to farm them and only have to spend rep that we would get through normal playing. Even a MR4 player would be able to get any key he/she wished each day.

[Krak_Nihilus]

T1 - 4k

T2 - 6k

T3 - 8k

T4 - 10k

Even a MR4 player would be able to get any key he/she wished each day.

My propositions for t1-3 prices might have been a little too low, true. But I don't think the difference between each tier should only be 1k. After all t4 is supposed to be special and rare.

As for mr4 getting acces to all keys, mind the key restriction behind syndicate rank. I doubt a mr4 can spend 800k creds, potatoe, 2 prime parts and some resources to max the syndicate. Also he would get only 10k standing each day.

[Airwolfen]

True, but only partially. The " infinite loop" never actually existed due to daily standing gain cap. And getting 10k standing in one run is not easy, let alone 20k, even if you're using exp booster. Also such standing gain is possible only in endless modes, and come on, who plays 10 t4 survival to 40 min (around where you can get 10k standing with exp booster) in one day? I doubt that even hardcore grinders do that.

 

Pluto, cerberus. Wave 4 with booster gets me 11k rep. And that is with a non organized group in a mid tier interception. There are missions that give people their entire max rep in a single mission. Ok. Not a lot of people get to that level of rep gain. But it's possible. Its all about maximizing the amount of mobs that spawn by just killing stuff as soon as it spawns and making room for even more spawns.

[Loswaith]

Given the loot given and the potential rep gain on each type of mission having all keys the same cost is actually a much better idea.

All keys are worth about 5k standing per key.

 

Because of a few reasons:

1. Prime parts are distributed across all void missions, and each part is 'worth' just as much as any other in that you need 1 of each to make the gear (some are doubles but it is still typically 4-5 parts total).  It is the tier of the mission and drop chances that make the value of each part different, not the key to access the mission itself.

2. Lower tier keys give less return on the reputation spent to buy the key.

3. T4s are harder thus only generally easilly done by veterans who have already put in a lot of time on Warframe (a bonus for time spent)

4. New players can earn less rep per day,

5.  it takes a good chunk of reputation to even get to buying keys and there are many other things to buy for rep (thus keys are only cheap for those that have spent 100,000s or rep already anyway, again bonus for time already spent).

6. There is only a finite amount of rep one can earn, thus a limit to the number of keys they can gain in a day (ie 8 keys per day at a 40k cap, this would mean top mastery and syndicate missons to reach the 40k mark, not certain players can even get 45k per day in rep yet)

 

 

... After all t4 is supposed to be special and rare. ...

Actually the factor is T4 keys are the easiest to actually farm for of all keys.  T1 would be next easiest (mostly due to endless giving multiple of them), and T2/T3 being roughly about the same (as being the hardest to get) given they tend to drop in the same missions (T2 may be slightly harder to gain than T3, though only slightly).

Edited January 12, 2015 by Loswaith

[Lypiphera]

My propositions for t1-3 prices might have been a little too low, true. But I don't think the difference between each tier should only be 1k. After all t4 is supposed to be special and rare.

As for mr4 getting acces to all keys, mind the key restriction behind syndicate rank. I doubt a mr4 can spend 800k creds, potatoe, 2 prime parts and some resources to max the syndicate. Also he would get only 10k standing each day.

I initially proposed a 2k difference between the ranks, but also stated 1k would be acceptable because how easy rep is to obtain. I think that 4k may be too low for T1, perhaps starting at 5k, 7k, 9k, 10k. Truthfully, low MR players don't need the the keys that early, as they have the entire system to explore yet, but I pointed out that at MR4 they could earn enough to buy a key a day. Keys are more of a rep sink than anything, without some sort of consumable, then rep becomes meaningless after you get your weapon and few mods from them. They are a great way to obtain the keys needed for farming particular parts, credits or R5 cores. This saves them from going to regular missions to farm the keys with RNG only to hope that when they get their key RNG cooperates again to get what they are looking for.

 

To get to Syndicate Rank 2 for keys, assuming they will be in the same place as before, requires only 90k credits, a Forma, and some resources. Given I know someone who had over 1mil at MR4 this is possible, especially given how credits are thrown around with dark sector conflicts. Given my structure of 10k for T4 then a MR4 could earn exactly 10k, excluding alerts, which is enough to purchase any key.

[Krak_Nihilus]

To get to Syndicate Rank 2 for keys, assuming they will be in the same place as before, requires only 90k credits, a Forma, and some resources. Given I know someone who had over 1mil at MR4 this is possible, especially given how credits are thrown around with dark sector conflicts. Given my structure of 10k for T4 then a MR4 could earn exactly 10k, excluding alerts, which is enough to purchase any key.

 

Low mastry having acces to any key tier is not a bad thing, I hope you don't disagree here. But they still can only get one t4 key from syndicate daily, while farming interception can get them a lot more. And again, t4 keys should be unlocked with highest rank, rank 5, of syndicate. Lower keys can be acquired earlier and are a bit cheaper. Four thousand standing for t1 key does not sound that bad considering that I myself have quite a lot anyway and I didn't play this game for long.

[Lypiphera]

Low mastry having acces to any key tier is not a bad thing, I hope you don't disagree here. But they still can only get one t4 key from syndicate daily, while farming interception can get them a lot more. And again, t4 keys should be unlocked with highest rank, rank 5, of syndicate. Lower keys can be acquired earlier and are a bit cheaper. Four thousand standing for t1 key does not sound that bad considering that I myself have quite a lot anyway and I didn't play this game for long.

I'm not saying its a bad thing, but its a thing that is not required. At lower mastery ranks they really have no need as they have plenty of other stuff to do. Unless they purchase plat and trade or get stuff donated to them they don't have the gear for the higher tiers anyway. While they can be dragged to a high level interception to get the high tier keys, that is not where they should be playing the game at low rank. They could buy platinum and then buy a million keys, but just because they can doesn't mean they should. I find 4k might be a little low as I can earn 12 if not 13 per day, not counting medallions. I'm trying to balance this towards endgame for two reasons, first as that is what Syndicates were intended for and second as that is who is most affected by this. Lower rank players would want to rank up to get their mods for their rank appropriate weapons and ideally for their frames.