Why Not Remove Multishot Instead?

[Hypernaut1]

I honestly dont have a problem with serration(or the other required +dmg mods). IMO, it feels like a progression tool for all of my weapons. Its the first mod i slot in that gives me a jump in power when my weapons get to a certain level. I kind of like that.

what i dont think is necessary is multshot mods. Its easily maxed, and it just an extra +dmg mod without drawbacks. I dont even like the idea/logic behind "multishot- two bullets out of barrel at once" wha?

i also think that elemental dmg mods should be toned down. I feel like i lose a lot of potential damage if i DONT use an element. It shouldnt be that way. Not only that, i feel like i have to always combine elemental mods for max efficiency. So no pure fire damage unless i'm ok with losing out on anothet +90% dmg elemental mod. Elements should be more about the proc effect and enemy weakness than being a way to increase your dmg by 90%.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Ishki88]

I wouldn't complain if they got rid of it...or treated the multishot with crit levels...meaning u can crit multishots

But I dunno......this would give enemies such a leap in offense

[Archistopheles]

Look at Archwing. Multishot is another type of "proc" that can be similar to crit chance. Done correctly, it becomes a choice, but when it's 90% or more... it becomes a necessity.

[vaugahn]

Look at Archwing. Multishot is another type of "proc" that can be similar to crit chance. Done correctly, it becomes a choice, but when it's 90% or more... it becomes a necessity.

 

This.

 

The Archwing multishot mod is what all multishot mods should be. Do you want to spend those points for the chance of double damage, or use them to instead guarantee a smaller but more reliable increase in damage? That's choice. That's how modding should work. That's also why flat +damage mods should be removed, but that's a topic for another thread.

[DarkLordX2]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

[Archistopheles]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

This statement ignores the fact that enemies were buffed across the board a little while after Forma was introduced to the game.

[Hypernaut1]

Look at Archwing. Multishot is another type of "proc" that can be similar to crit chance. Done correctly, it becomes a choice, but when it's 90% or more... it becomes a necessity.

Exactly this. It would be much easier to give up 30% fire dmg for faster reloads compared to the 90% increase in dmg it is now. It the same reason why i have combined elements on most of my weapons. having a pure electric proc is not worth giving up the power increase by combining elements. Edited January 17, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[JakeRobber]

Look at Archwing. Multishot is another type of "proc" that can be similar to crit chance. Done correctly, it becomes a choice, but when it's 90% or more... it becomes a necessity.

 

Good point.  I would still use the multishot mod on any 8 mod build for a fully auto or semi auto weapon, but for a one-shot weapon like Velocitus, there is a good argument against using it.  I like that.

[Eldnacpeek]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

 

This in particular is what I'm not understanding about people who want damage mods nerfed/removed. I don't at all see their thoughts forming into a conclusion like that. What is the point of it? What would be fun about that? How do these kinds of people come up with things like this?

Edited January 17, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)IMainTheMains]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

[size=5] THIS [/size]

[sickness24]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

This arguement is exactly why they are hesitant to outright remove them, i am indifferent to the whole debate of forced choice and such. But like steve said if they are going to re-evaluate the mods and/or removing any of them the enemies are going to have to change with them. As such the arguement that we wont be able to deal with the enemies is a void one, since noone is talking about leaving enemies the same but removing the mods. Please for the future dont use an arguement that can be so easily defeated.

[vaugahn]

This in particular is what I'm not understanding about people who want damage mods nerfed/removed. I don't at all see their thoughts forming into a conclusion like that. What is the point of it? What would be fun about that? How do these kinds of people come up with things like this?

 

Remember what they said in the devstream about how if they were going to change damage mods they'd change everything and not just one part?

 

Getting rid of damage mods would also mean changing the way enemy scaling works. Which is something that should happen either way, but people aren't saying we should remove damage mods and just leave it at that. Other changes still need to happen.

 

Edit: ninja'd

Edited January 17, 2015 by vaugahn

[Tsuso]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

Removing/nerfing damage mods allows for DE to rebalance weapons and mob scaling.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Tsuso

[Hypernaut1]

So...you want to nerf all the damage mods? Then tell me how are we going to deal with high level content?

no, its not that i just want a nerf to all damage mods. I just think multishot is redundant and elemental damage mods should be less focused on damage and more on the element.

all damage is relative anyway, if they change anything at all, im sure enemy armor/hp will be adjusted too.

[LittleNooby]

1 - I agree that there are too many "Must have" mods that doesn't give you many choices.

2 - I partially agree that it's basically another crit mod with the exception of a few weapons (angstrum & co).

3 - There is a small drawback which is a loss of accuracy. Not exactly accuracy but try it on Angstrum to understand, you'll never hit your reticule anymore.

4 - Your solution need to be balanced.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LittleNooby

[Hypernaut1]

 

1 - I agree that there are too many "Must have" mods that doesn't give you many choices.

2 - I partially agree that it's basically another crit mod with the exception of a few weapons (angstrum & co).

3 - There is a small drawback which is a loss of accuracy. Not exactly accuracy but try it on Angstrum to understand, you'll never hit your reticule anymore.

4 - Your solution need to be balanced.

 

i think my solution would be, like another poster said, to just lower the % on multishot. I would also lower the +dmg on elemental mods. i'd drop it to around 30%. I could easily give up the extra 30% toxin damage if i wanted only 1 element or if i wanted to go pure physical damage and utility.

[Rakosta_Kai]

There is a literal ton of balance adjustments that would have to be made in conjunction with a change of this type. or even the type associated with removing or making serration obsolete.

 

Would it foster diversity? Yes, sort of.

 

It'd be a new cookie cutter setup on a much smaller sampling of weapons because the job balancing EVERYTHING to the loss of those mods would, likely, get botched.

 

Damage 2.0 had hidden nerfs and buffs, so did Melee 2.0.

 

Something like removing Multi-shot, or +Damage mods is a whole order of magnitude more involved, imo.

 

Damage per shot, crit chance, crit X% modifier, armor, shields, health, reload, status effects, status chance, and ammo count for everything would all be affected off the top of my head. The mods in question seriously impact TTK so it all has to be looked at.

 

Just the bugs after implementation would be enough to make me nuts.. That's not counting the realities of the changes.

New players would be at an immediate and even larger disadvantage than they already are because other players have access to dual stat elemental mods where they would not without spending plat on the market.

 

The mods in question represent the concept of attribute stacking... Would that extend to weapon elements? Warframe attributes?

What else would be on the list? Why would some things be affected and not others?

 

In order for them to implement something like this, I would want to see a full blown PTR run for a few months before it was implemented in game.

[FireSegment]

DE new concept of mods - aka Mods 2.0  (as in the first devstream of the year ) is that all the necessary mod (such as serration, and in this case - split chamber) will become  stats of the weapon and can be upgrade without taking mod slot.. So let stay and see how they make it look like.

 

However, u post make me think of a ideas of use Muitishot as the balance factor between different type of guns, like between a riffle and a shotgun (u dont suprise of extra bullet from a shotgun right?). Nerf the riffle's mutilshot, buff the shotgun multishot (or keep it as now) whould be nice effort for balance.

 

About the elemental damage, i do think that DE want us to ALWAYS equip different element mod and change them when go from faction to faction so it should be fine. But as of now, the elemental damage and puncture damage dominating all over the game, leave too little choice on actually choosing the damage u want to deal (and a mod such as Prime Heavy Trauma become a abandoned child when it just being born @@, if not thank to the fact we only have Bo p as impact weap).   So, the solution is : Buff every weapon impact,puncture, slash.... Nerf the Element damage mod. 

 

The game will be much more balance between weap and weap in this way.

 

That being said, i doubt that any of the change i suggest will coming anytime soon (or if it ever happen) .... cuz u know ... it's DE, they still keep something up there sleeve (may be the Focus system that could make all this irrelevant )..

[Venus-Venera]

i don't use rifles anyway. after nerf it will be even more pointless to use it.

[DarkLordX2]

The problem is that by nerfing the Elemental mods, you will be killing the whole damage 2.0 system.

 

Right now the Physical damage is quite useles if you compare it with the elemental damage. If we change the damage mods to just proc/status mods, then tell me how would Corrosive damage differ from Magnetic damage?

 

If you change the elemental damage to status-only mod, weapons with a low status (exam. Furis) won't have any benefit from them. Again, changing the elemental mods will kill the damage 2.0 system.

Edited January 17, 2015 by DarkLordX2

[Hypernaut1]

 

The problem is that by nerfing the Elemental mods, you will be killing the whole damage 2.0 system.

 

Right now the Physical damage is quite useles if you compare it with the elemental damage. If we change the damage mods to just proc/status mods, then tell me how would Corrosive damage differ from Magnetic damage?

 

If you change the elemental damage to status-only mod, weapons with a low status (exam. Furis) won't have any benefit from them. Again, changing the elemental mods will kill the damage 2.0 system.

im not sure i follow you.

1. why is physical dmg useless

2.how does added dmg make magnetic different from corrosive? you stil have status effects and you still will have elemental weaknesses.

[vaugahn]

The problem is that by nerfing the Elemental mods, you will be killing the whole damage 2.0 system.

 

Right now the Physical damage is quite useles if you compare it with the elemental damage. If we change the damage mods to just proc/status mods, then tell me how would Corrosive damage differ from Magnetic damage?

 

If you change the elemental damage to status-only mod, weapons with a low status (exam. Furis) won't have any benefit from them. Again, changing the elemental mods will kill the damage 2.0 system.

Except not really.

The cornerstone of damage 2.0 is that different damage types perform differently against different targets, and that those damage types can be combined into even moar damage types.

The values attached to the mods won't change that.

[Filas312]

Leave my multirocket Angstrum alone!

 

Now, more seriously: the Multishot mechanic is actually pretty unique to Warframe and pretty interesting, but it should be more, uh, consistent? across different types of guns.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Filas312

[Ionus]

Or they can make multishot actually use ammo for every extra shot you get. This will create a drawback and encourage the use of ammo mods.

Of course, some people won't like that. *equips flame repellant*

Edited January 18, 2015 by Ionus

[Hypernaut1]

Or they can make multishot actually use ammo for every extra shot you get. This will create a drawback and encourage the use of ammo mods.

Of course, some people won't like that. *equips flame repellant*

Then it will just be a +fire rate mod. They should tone it down or get rid of it.