Wiegraf Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I guess the problem is the difference in scale between the capacity to deal damage and the capacity to take damage being exponentially different. Take an unranked player who just finished Vor's Prize, got a few unranked mods and perhaps 1 or 2 that have a few ranks in it. If he had an Excalibur, he'd have around 200~300 Health and Shields, his weapon would deal about 12~15 damage per shot. Now take a top MR player, using the same Warframe but having maxed mod builds : he'd have near 700~800 Health and Shield, enhanced power damage/duration/cost/range, and even if he used the basic Braton, it would probably average its damage over 200 if not more. Warframes tend to be able to take up to 2 to 3 times the amount of punishment from Rank 0 to Rank 30 while weapons deal way over 10 to 20 times their regular damage, if not more in certain cases. I have one clan member who tested a build for the Soma Prime that regularly deals near or over 16k damage per crit. That's incredible damage going out compared to what a Warframe could take. So yes, the problem would be that removing Serration (and its similar equivalents) would probably (mostly) &!$$ off a lot of long time players who invested in those mods (myself included; I'd feel sour for a while to be sure but then, like always, the key would be to adapt). Sure, a compensation would be nice but even so, it doesn't compensate for the time invested in it. It's like telling your player base that those 40~100+ hours they spent getting credits, fusion cores and duplicates to max a single Serration were for nothing. Now, don't get me wrong; I'm actually for the removal (or, as they suggested, the replacement with 'situationnal mods') of base damage mods like Serration. However, if they do so, it's not likely to happen overnight simply because it would also require balancing all enemies to fit the new damage model. If they could tame the damage curve of players to something less explosive while giving each and every weapon a meaningful use other than just mastery fodder, I'd say 'go ahead'. As much fun there can be in seeing ridiculous damage numbers, in my humble opinion, I'd prefer to see 'meaningful' damage over 'explosive' damage. Edited January 19, 2015 by Wiegraf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainEras Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Aquiring and levelling mods is a fundamental part of this game and is probably one of the best indicators of progression. Being able to transfer this progression from gun to gun is also unique. You start to mess with this system and you start to mess with what makes Warframe Warframe. Remember when you first get into the game and hear about mods like serration, hornet strike, split chamber etc? How much you want them for your weapons, how their acquisition drives you on in the game, gives you motivation? just because some people have forgotten the thrill of first finding a rare(ish) mod and the sense of acheivement when you finally get to max it doesn't mean these mods should now be scrapped because you're now bored. Same goes for the people who can't be @$$ed to actually strive for their power increases and just want it handed to them by having the weapons damage increase while its strapped to their back on Sechura. I could have written this . . . totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahadaya Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Remove Serration? Is it a variety change? No. Now you see many people with Boltor Prime, because it have a high DPS, but now without Serration? Soma Prime, or any other gun with high crit % will be heavily used, the weapon with a higher DPS will be the main one then, there WILL NOT be many guns variety, there will be ALWAYS a single one. Its a faking weird to see developers in every faking game trying to balance game (and failing!) and trying to force people to use multiple weapons. Take this: There will be ALWAYS a single gun BETTER than the rest, and everybody will use it, ALWAYS, you can change the game as many times as you want, and this will happen again and again, the main weapon will change, the 1-weapon-domination WILL NOT. This happen in every game, and people will get frustated with that weird changes and will leave the game, you are warned. So, why to remove serration? This will change NOTHING, I disagree. Again, I genuinely believe you didn't read the OP. Nobody ever said anything about gun variety - that's simply fixed by adding more content. This is about build variety. And if people get frustrated and leave over changes in a beta game, well that's their problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerc Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 *People just want Serration gone for legendary cores fixed Which is the least they could do, and even then it's barely on the line of "fair". One Legendary Core per Damage Mod removed will be tolerable. It's extremely time consuming to max a single one out, let alone all of them, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Can we stop making all these threads about serration's possible removal? All i'm seeing in them are people that don't know what they are talking about because they didn't watch the devstream, people whining and crying at the suggestion of 5.5% damage per lv on every primary, and people wanting legendary cores regardless of what happens to damage mods. At the very least watch the part of the devstream at when they talked about it, understand it, and then make your threads jeez. @OP An extra slot free for people to make whatever build they want is the point of the possible removal. A damage increase with no additional effects or drawbacks is somewhat flawed. Edited January 19, 2015 by EmptyDevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoeskioeh Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 is: will it affect primed point blank, too? i mean, those are essentially the same mods (serration/point blank), and whatever argument holds for the removal or non-removal of one, also holds for the other... so, do i invest the cost to upgrade the primed mod or is it a waste of perfectly good cores? i mean, it is basically just freshly introduced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rechot Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) im almost 100% positive they wont remove serration any time soon. It would take a lot of work to make up for it. And if they even make the slightest mistake in the change the community will burst into flames of rage and anger. When nulifiers where added (1 ENEMY) a lot of people got mad. imagine what happen on a much larger scale. Edited January 19, 2015 by rechot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestral9999 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yes, yes it will. On the upside? Legendary cores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastikator2 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yes, yes it will. On the upside? Legendary cores. Oh yay, now I can upgrade my Serra... oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainEras Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Don't you get it ? . . . the vast majority who want serration removed are the lazy buggers called "NEWBIES". I say that they haven't been here long enough to make the call and any major change should require a qualification of being MR 10 and above. It's absolutely ridiculous, listening to people trying to make decisions when they have only been here for 5 minutes . . . the world's gone bloody mad. Edited January 19, 2015 by CaptainEras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Don't you get it ? . . . the vast majority who want serration removed are the lazy buggers called "NEWBIES". I say that they haven't been here long enough to make the call and any major change should require a qualification of being MR 10 and above. It's absolutely ridiculous, listening to people trying to make decisions when they have only been here for 5 minutes . . . the world's gone bloody mad. MR 13 here and i have a 9/10 serration with enough cores and credits to max it but i'd rather have the mod removed, cores refunded, and the damage integrated into all primaries at 5.5% per lv. I think the majority are people that look forward to these new mods DE would put in place of serration/damage mods, and would like a little more freedom with their builds so they don't feel like they are gimping themselves by not using damage mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swihart91 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 People dont read through a thread anymore, yes I know they wantnto make seration a passive but that isnt some quick fix they can do that requires a entire game rebalance or the power creep is way to strong yeah lets give an mr 1 that has a lvl 30 mk-1 Barton a full seration because that makes the most sense in the world the whole point of moding is to actually slow down your progress and it actually makes sense if you think about it and to all the people angry at me because my topic isnt true well good for you, you are one of the people who want this game improved and not powercreep. But damage isn't broken it's not something that needs fixing for the game to continue working, other areas of the game need attention before this happens but everyone is rallying behind it to the point where they may make de think about dping it and it isn't need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainEras Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You mean how I rolled my eyes when I realized that in order to get a gun to the damage level it was supposed to be at, I had to find and level a mod? And upon finding that mod I found out that I had to dump every resource I had into it for far, FAR too long compared to the level I was at the time? Yeah, I remember that. I remember how I was over three hundred hours into the game before a split chamber finally dropped for me, and how I was far and way behind the curve without it, or how I burned myself out so hard grinding specifically for it that I quit for several months after finally getting the damned thing? No, I remember it perfectly well. All this to get the things that brought the weapon up to "normal". It wasn't thrilling at all, it sucked. It's not that I don't understand your point, either(and big congratulations to anyone that got that nice feeling from the mandatory mods, truly). When Seeker finally dropped for me I was doing the mutalist survival event and proceeded to immediately extract, event rewards be damned. I was stoked that I got this mod that wasn't an essential, must have just to make the mechanics work item, rather it was the quality of life mod that I really wanted, and there it was! Which brings me into these topics in the first place. Building my "base" was not exciting. I've been a gamer for almost three decades(yes, I'm getting old), and for a majority of that time the "level grind" has been my least favorite part of the journey, a preparation for end game. The acquisition and maxing of the "staple" mods is the equivalent of reaching max level in this game. Not level 30, not any particular mission, and certainly not mastery rank. Having those mods maxed is the point in which you now have freedom to min/max(or not, your choice), go where you want, do what you want. It's the target location, and in my opinion it's both cumbersome and too far off. And the way it's done means that the cost is diversity of choice. My favorite Vasto(single Vasto, yes really) builld has a semi-ranked reload mod(not my main secondary, not full forma) on it because a .8 reload speed on the six shooter plays out really cool. Would be even cooler if I could toss Seeker on it too and kill things. In order to do this I'd have to relegate it to significantly lower level content because I'd have to give up too much of the damage stack. Just imagine how cool it'd play out if we didn't have to sacrifice effectiveness to use stuff like that. S#&$ . .how depressing, why do you bother playing this game ? What is with this "end game" crap ? . . is the concept of "no end game" too much to understand. Kindly elucidate, the quoted piece in your post is spot on when it comes to one part of the game yet you seem to - in a rather childish sarcastic manner - include it so that you can deride it, why ? However, I can see why you would want levelling up mods to be easier, you can't be bothered to polly your weapons so that they will accommodate a full compliment of mods. Not being funny but why the hell are you playing this game ? . . and why pick on a post stating just facts to be an example of something, what ? god, and you, only knows. BTW, I've been in gaming since "Ping Pong" (about C1972), so am an "old bugger" whose been on every ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 If they get rid of Primed Point Blank, I will legit lose my s***. I'm one rank away from maxing it for my Carrier and if they take that away from me, then there will be a news report on my arrest upon the end of the massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerc Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 A damage increase with no additional effects or drawbacks is somewhat flawed. So is forcing people to use a Mod to make their weapon good. Mods should be things that add different elements to gunfights, not necessities to stand a chance against enemies past level 5, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 So is forcing people to use a Mod to make their weapon good. Mods should be things that add different elements to gunfights, not necessities to stand a chance against enemies past level 5, lol. Wait what? Why are you quoting me with that reply? Your reply is basically part of what i'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoeskioeh Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 If they get rid of Primed Point Blank, I will legit lose my s***. I'm one rank away from maxing it for my Carrier and if they take that away from me, then there will be a news report on my arrest upon the end of the massacre. Start with slapping silly anyone involved in approving the GUI design and you have my moral support! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 People need to cut the BS and just admit they want the Cores and extra Slot. Don't fix what ain't broken to begin with. The community has voted and we want to keep Serration. All this is showing is that we have a very vocal minority group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestral9999 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 People need to cut the BS and just admit they want the Cores and extra Slot. Don't fix what ain't broken to begin with. Can't deny that I'd like both of those, however calling the current system not broken is a just naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Start with slapping silly anyone involved in approving the GUI design and you have my moral support! :-D I have no idea what a GUI is... People need to cut the BS and just admit they want the Cores and extra Slot. Don't fix what ain't broken to begin with. The community has voted and we want to keep Serration. All this is showing is that we have a very vocal minority group. I don't want the Cores. What, a few Legendary Cores? Do you know how many Cores I put into these mods to make them what they are? I could have maxed my Vitality and Redirection with them a LONG time ago. I could have maxed every mod I've come into contact with if I didn't put EVERYTHING into these mods. A few Legendary Cores won't cut it. I'd only be able to insta-max a few mods, or, we could keep it how it is so I didn't just waste every Fusion Core ever. IF everything I put into the Rank 10 mods were refunded, I would seriously be able to max everything I haven't currently maxed. If you gave me a few Legendary Cores, I would need to sell them because everything is almost maxed anyway ._. And even if they weren't, I'd only be able to use it on a few mods. Not all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymerc Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) im almost 100% positive they wont remove serration any time soon. It would take a lot of work to make up for it. And if they even make the slightest mistake in the change the community will burst into flames of rage and anger. When nulifiers where added (1 ENEMY) a lot of people got mad. imagine what happen on a much larger scale. The whole Nullifier thing was because people could not adapt to an enemy being able to effortlessly counter ability spammers. We need more enemies like them. Especially ones that can mind control similar to Mutalist Salad V. On topic: Damage mods should be removed. Modding is meant to make tweaks to bring different elements to a fight. Mods like Serration and Hornet Strike are boring necessities. You need them in order to stand a chance against enemies past level 5. That's not modding at all. Hope U16 removes them. Edited January 19, 2015 by Tymerc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)torvahn Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm really hoping they remove hornet strike as well so i can put steady hands on my gammacor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm really hoping they remove hornet strike as well so i can put steady hands on my gammacor. What? Gammacor has literally 0 recoil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoeskioeh Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I have no idea what a GUI is... [biting-back-obvious-stab-at-the-developers] *nggggg* Graphical User Interface... My one and only grievance with this game since U14... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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