Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[(XBOX)Sgt Batman MD]

...

 

You're right, I'm wrong. 

[Azawarau]

Loki only has 4x damage if they don't know you are there, but if you only bump into an enemy thy know where you are and even shoot at you, and even with the 4x melee you still don't even come close to Nova's damage.

Valkyr in forced into melee when invulnerable and if you don't kill all the targets that are shooting you, inside a radius, you will take all the damage tbey did to you in Hysteria.

I know im not helping here but with Hysteria the damage thing is only enemies within 5 meters.... and being in melee mode isnt exactly a drawback

 

You're right, I'm wrong. 

Thats really not helping anything....

 

Editing your posts is really going too far .-.

 

Ill feel bad about it now

Edited January 24, 2015 by Azawarau

[taiiat]

No wave 100 actually, if u people bothered even trying

Enemies do not become immune to Abilities based on Level.

 

and since that shouldn't be far enough for Endless Missions to break (as it takes atleast 240 Minutes in Survival for it to break, and presumably Defense would break around that point as well) then this is patently untrue.

 

Enemies haven't increased their AI Speed forever into space with no clamping since a loooooooooooooooong time ago. haha, boy do i remember those speed demons at later Waves.

and even if they did, you'd still be affecting them the same amount when you work with Final Percentages.

 

 

so unless you're suggesting at some point in a Mission a bug occurred and the Ability(ies) were not working correctly, and therefore should be something to be reported and fixed, that is not the case.

[nekrojiji]

While we're at it, why don't we make Loki only half invisible? It's not a challenge going around, smashing people with a 4x Stealth Multiplier. And make Radial Disarm a timed thing.Don't make Valkyr invincible while in Hysteria and take away her life steal.Reduce Rhino's Iron Skin even further because invincivility isn't a challenge, and take away the stasis from Rhino Stomp These Frames are made to be this way. If you nerf Nova's power, then you have to up her stats. Do you have any idea how squishy she is? She may be a glass cannon, but she's also made of glass. You seriously need to put a "Fragile. Do Not Drop" sticker on her, that's how squishy she is. So to counter her very poor stats, she has very strong powers. She doesn't need a nerf at all. If you can play Nova and make her a viable glass cannon in endless game modes and still live through all the punishment, then you deserve all that power. 

 

Quick Thinking + Primed Flow ... don't act like you don't use these!

[shoryukensama]

what kind of mission are we talking about? grineer? infested? t1? t2? pretty sure there are bombards hiding inside  nullifier bubbles. somewhere.

does the name nova mean nothing? just go play excal 4 4 4 4 4 then for more challenge

[ThePresident777]

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4: "The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one."

[Inez]

Playing past wave 50 of defense shouldn't be as easy as the first few waves. 

 

The rewards are exactly the same. Look up 'orokin void rewards' on the wiki. There's a rotation in defense. 

 

Given that the rewards are the same, why would it bother you the difficulty isn't increased?

 

 

And if nova bothers you so much, why not quit playing/playing with Nova? Does your 'abort mission' option not work when a Nova is in your party? Can you not break up the group when you're hosting a void key and a Nova joins? Or is your arsenal broken and you are stuck playing Nova?

[PickleMonster21]

Loki only has 4x damage if they don't know you are there, but if you only bump into an enemy thy know where you are and even shoot at you, and even with the 4x melee you still don't even come close to Nova's damage.

Valkyr in forced into melee when invulnerable and if you don't kill all the targets that are shooting you, inside a radius, you will take all the damage tbey did to you in Hysteria.

... and Nova is a squishy plush toy...

 

Quick Thinking + Primed Flow ... don't act like you don't use these!

... I don't xD Quick Thinking? Let me see... I only have one copy, and it's up to Rank 1, and as for Primed Flow, I don't have it because I was on holiday when he came to visit a Relay near me ;-; But even so, I've found I don't even use normal Flow a lot these days.

[nekrojiji]

Perhaps a removal of the firerate decrease effect would make her work. But everything together makes her ultimate like three abilities rolled into one. It should require team synergy to do what she does alone.

 

She needs the atk speed debuff ....but as I said before .... the duration has to be lowered and the effect must decay over time ....so if you want them to stay slowed ..... you must cast it continuously ......  so you actually need to know when and if you need to cast molecular prime.

Edited January 24, 2015 by nekrojiji

[Azawarau]

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4: "The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one."

Im sure everyone understands that

 

The issue here is some stand out far beyond others

 

The rewards are exactly the same. Look up 'orokin void rewards' on the wiki. There's a rotation in defense. 

 

Given that the rewards are the same, why would it bother you the difficulty isn't increased?

 

 

And if nova bothers you so much, why not quit playing/playing with Nova? Does your 'abort mission' option not work when a Nova is in your party? Can you not break up the group when you're hosting a void key and a Nova joins? Or is your arsenal broken and you are stuck playing Nova?

Just stop

 

Thats entirely beside the point

 

She needs the atk speed debuff ....but as I said before .... the duration has to be lowered and the effect must decay over time ....so if you want them to stay slowed ..... you must cast it continuously ......  so you actually need to know when and if you need to cast molecular prime.

The effect decayinng over time is actually a great idea

[ThePresident777]

If people truly understood the following:

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4: "The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one."

 

... then, they wouldn't be trying to destroy the core of the game.  They would be trying to build up the bosses and the desperate scenarios.

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4 specifically rejects "balance" as the core of the game.

[Azawarau]

If people truly understood the following:

 

... then, they wouldn't be trying to destroy the core of the game.  They would be trying to build up the bosses and the desperate scenarios.

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4 specifically rejects "balance" as the core of the game.

No, it didnt

 

That didnt reject anything in terms of balance

 

He said gears of war is balanced more on 1 VS 1 where warframe is balanced on one against many

 

First that didnt say anything about rejecting balance as the core of the game and balance as the core of the game

 

Second that has nothing to do with the topic of Nova compared to other frames

 

Third every boss is literally trivialized by novas 4 so shes not even balanced there

[Thaumatos]

she was the first nerf that started so many others

You weren't around for the Iron Skin nerf were you?

 

DE has been nerfing frames for a long time.  Warframe balance is in constant flux.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

She needs the atk speed debuff ....but as I said before .... the duration has to be lowered and the effect must decay over time ....so if you want them to stay slowed ..... you must cast it continuously ......  so you actually need to know when and if you need to cast molecular prime.

I actually really like this idea.

[Thaumatos]

If people truly understood the following:

 

... then, they wouldn't be trying to destroy the core of the game.  They would be trying to build up the bosses and the desperate scenarios.

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4 specifically rejects "balance" as the core of the game.

1. You posted a link to a devstream that was put up nearly 2 years ago?  Do you know how much has changed since their initial vision?

 

2. Balance is specifically stated as part of the game, just differently than other games.  They meant it's a '1 v horde' game not a '1 v 1' game and players have to be given a challenge by either getting more powerful enemies thrown at them or by having a dynamic change in scenario.

 

They're not saying they don't want to balance their game...are you effin nuts?  In fact, that's Scott's job now.  Whether you agree or disagree with the OP, you're way off base here.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Thaumatos

[RealPandemonium]

Nova is the EZmode frame, and it seems that's how DE wants it to be.  Best to leave the OP design on Nova and the peanut gallery of exploitable frames and hope that the newest frames aren't as poorly designed.  

[Thaumatos]

And if nova bothers you so much, why not quit playing/playing with Nova? Does your 'abort mission' option not work when a Nova is in your party? Can you not break up the group when you're hosting a void key and a Nova joins? Or is your arsenal broken and you are stuck playing Nova?

That's the same as forcing players to play a specific way.  People shouldn't have to kick or drop group because specific frames impede gameplay and others shouldn't be kicked or dropped because of their gear (frame included).

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but this is just a wrong-headed point to make.

[Sanjyushi]

You still don't give me any idea why instead of Nerfing/Changing Nova, you simply don't just not play her. Nova is a niche frame. Yes, Niche. She specializes in a certain task, and that is slowing down her enemies, and increasing the damage dealt to them. This is what is known in video games as a debuff. Just like how Nyx's niche is to lessen the chance of her allies getting shot. Or Trinity's niche of restoring her team's assets. A Niche. Nova just so happens to be a debuff.

 

I would like you to go run a T4S solo with  a Nyx/Trin/Loki/Rhino first, and then run it with it solo with a Nova. 

I can already see that your imagination is telling you where I am going with this.

See? She isn't stupidly OP. She just particularly performs well with a team. And you're saying screw her because she's a teamplayer.

 

And I just love how you think "Increasing the range on Mprime's explosions" is actually useful. lol. Fun Fact, it isn't. No one really cares about the explosion. Yes, it can cause chain reactions, but as you said, in higher end missions, its nothing more than a tickle to a Corrupt Bombard with an effective 40k Health Pool. What you are suggesting is giving Nova a small bandaid after getting hit by a dump truck and somehow that magically makes up for it. I'll be honest with you, I run a build that actually forces me to run negative range, to the point where an enemy could be a meter away, and the explosion still doesn't reach them. I COULD put on stretch to counter this, but guess what? It's worthless.

Nullstar is also so worthless that I won't even talk about it.

 

That's the same as forcing players to play a specific way.  People shouldn't have to kick or drop group because specific frames impede gameplay and others shouldn't be kicked or dropped because of their gear (frame included).

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but this is just a wrong-headed point to make.

It's not the same. Infact, it's the total opposite. What we are telling the OP himeself, is that, in fact, he DOES have the choice of not playing Nova, and he should take that goddamn choice instead of whining.

[Astrotrap]

I reiterate, why is everyone obsessed with nerfing all our good stuff? Why not buff our lame stuff instead? Then we can be overpowered, and the game will be highly enjoyable.

 

Of course, I personally just play Warframe to wreck S#&$.

[Azawarau]

It's not the same. Infact, it's the total opposite. What we are telling the OP himeself, is that, in fact, he DOES have the choice of not playing Nova, and he should take that goddamn choice instead of whining.

Your concept of force is more twisted in your favor than Kentucky law

 

>Referencing relatively recent events

[Ronyn]

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4 specifically rejects "balance" as the core of the game.

No. That's false. It means the game is balanced around the idea of 4 tenno VS enemy army.

And it does not at all mean that every frame should not be equall in terms of the capability to take on the enemy.

 

 

It's not the same. Infact, it's the total opposite. What we are telling the OP himeself, is that, in fact, he DOES have the choice of not playing Nova, and he should take that goddamn choice instead of whining.

Who someone personally brings in to a mission is not the whole point though.

In Co-op situations the frame each person takes will have an effect on the others.

Too strong and it trivializes content for others, too weak and it puts extra pressure on others.

Ideally, each frame would about the same in terms of usefulness but different in how they are useful.

This one of the reason why balance among frames is important.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ronyn

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

what? Damage Mitigation?

*laughs*

Rhino has no Damage Mitigation.

 

if you're talking about Roar, Roar is mediocre even with absolute maximum possible Power Strength.

 

Nyx?

Nyx doesn't have any Damage Mitigation.

 

Mind Control makes one Enemy not shoot you. that isn't Damage Mitigation.

Psychic Bolts is like a backup Chaos. isn't Damage Mitigation.

Chaos makes Enemies attack random targets. this isn't Damage Mitigation. and if something shoots at you, it's the same as if it was shooting at you while not affected by any Abilities.

Absorb isn't Damage Mitigation. you Absorb it. at a 100% rate (except for Magnetic because someone decided to make it 90% Resistant to Magnetic instead of just making Absorb have poor efficiency of Absorbing Damage from another Absorb, so that Magnetic Damage from Enemies and Players wouldn't get screwed)

yes, you yourself don't take Damage, and it has a high Threat Level, so Enemies generally focus on it. but it doesn't Mitigate any Damage.

 

Damage Mitigation means to reduce the effect of incoming Damage. meaning, making less severe. Absorbing it and then returning it back to them doesn't Mitigate it, it reflects it. it's certainly very useful, but it's something different.

 

 

as for Nova, Molecular Prime can have a maximum amount of 75% DPS Mitigation. i admit, for slow shooting Enemies, it doesn't technically reduce their Damage, since it's an Enemy based on power hits.

but, for most Enemies, who rely on shooting often for little Damage, it does make for Damage Mitigation.

 

I think you have a different definition of damage mitigation than everybody else that uses the term.

[taiiat]

I think you have a different definition of damage mitigation than everybody else that uses the term.

i don't use blanket terms.

when you're vague in conversation, you're asking for confusion and misunderstanding.

 

to Mitigate something is to reduce it's effectiveness.

to not be affected by it at all, should be classified as avoiding or reflecting, or whatever.

 

because that makes sure that there's clarity. no room for misunderstanding.

[Azawarau]

i don't use blanket terms.

when you're vague in conversation, you're asking for confusion and misunderstanding.

 

to Mitigate something is to reduce it's effectiveness.

to not be affected by it at all, should be classified as avoiding or reflecting, or whatever.

 

because that makes sure that there's clarity. no room for misunderstanding.

If you reduce it to 0 its mitigating whether it falls into a broader category or not

[Sanjyushi]

i don't use blanket terms.

when you're vague in conversation, you're asking for confusion and misunderstanding.

 

to Mitigate something is to reduce it's effectiveness.

to not be affected by it at all, should be classified as avoiding or reflecting, or whatever.

 

because that makes sure that there's clarity. no room for misunderstanding.

Well, taiiat, isn't that contradictory?

Yes, Mprime reduces shooting by 75% theoretically.

But, let's look at at this way:

If an enemy hits you, they are still dealing the exact same damage with or without Prime. Therefore, it wouldnt be any less effective. It jut happens at a laesser rate. And at this point, wouldn't you yourself say that Mprime is avoiding damage, rather than reducing it?