Vital Sense + Point Strike = Too Much Space Taken :(

[LisRestall]

don't forget to uncheck Crits and then calculate yourself what's likely to happen.

Crits are averaged on Warframe Builder. that means that a mean is taken for the middleground of what's possible to happen on each shot.

 

the problem is the Crit Chance, not Crit Damage. unlike say, Latron Prime, Shotguns don't have the benefit of having a very high Crit Damage Multiplier to compensate for having lowish Crit Chance.

also can't take advantage of Weakpoint Crits past one pellet hitting due to luck.

 

 

or, we could play this game of only partially accurate paper.

 

do you feel silly yet? you average 8% more Damage per shot. however, it's super random, so some shots are going to be horrible, and some shots actually pretty good.

 

is huge RNG worth 8% average more Damage?

hmmmm?

It would still technically have higher overall damage dealt in the long run opposed to just having a lower DPS build. There's no huge RNG here, it would just be a matter of some bursts which deals heavy damage and some doesn't.

 

Basically, from the way you're talking, you would result to a higher damage dealt overall in a single run by having a constant damage output but even if you turn the world upside-down, that would never happen.

 

The only time where paper calcs are screwed up is due to something like high-recoil, very low accuracy, etc. but none of those applies to Boar Prime since it's a shotgun and is meant to be fired at point blank.

 

Do you feel silly yet?

[Ashnal]

Well they did it with Bite so why stop there? at mas rank the mod should be just 150%chance and 120%damage not asking to change the damge multipliers but just merge to mods with 1. I mean really? what would happen with just ONE more mod slot? 

People would put Point strike into that slot :)

 

Since DE doesn't remove mods usually, if they did introduce a combined mod it would leave point strike or vital sense to fit into that slot :)

 

All you would end up with is numerically stronger crit weapons.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Who here thinks that it might be a good idea to get rid of point strike AND vital sense and be introduced to a new mod which is basically vital sense and point strike but as ONE mod not two. This can leave one extra slot to mod and even that can help a lot. For instance, lets take the Amprex. This weapon eats ammo faster than Scooby and Shaggy can chug down a buffet. Getting rid of the 2 mods we will be left with 1 extra mod slot where one would put rifle ammo mutator to help save ammo. Anyone here with me on this one? Or this going to be a one man army thing? (Cause' I'm going to lose if that's the case)

No need for that really, Crit mods are awesome beneficiary mods or at  least they are in my eyes. When your having issues with ammo consumption and a lack of mod space to deal with it in your build they STILL have alternatives to help you in auras which dont take a mod space as they have their own. I hear you though - i feel a lot of the more niche mod benefits will never get seen or used with such limited mod space (wall running taking less stamina? more time to hack security panels?) could benefit more just being absorded onto other mods, perhaps even other niche ones.

 

Less stamina wall running could also dual with faster stamina recovery and become a new nightmare mod, likewise with faster frame speed could also dual with faster travel through the air and so forth.

[taiiat]

The only time where paper calcs are screwed up is due to something like high-recoil, very low accuracy, etc. but none of those applies to Boar Prime since it's a shotgun and is meant to be fired at point blank.

Crits are averaged, which displays them quite skewed.

you can easily have a Bow hitting for 60,000 on almost every single shot. yet Warframe Builder would never tell you that, it'll tell you Bows deal ~20,000 Damage on a body shot.

 

but we certainly know otherwise, with it ranging between more like 3000 and 80,000.

[belcebub]

Imo these two mods are actually fine taking two spots. If you go crit, you shouldn't also be able to stick all elementals on it on top. It's a trade-off.

[LisRestall]

Crits are averaged, which displays them quite skewed.

you can easily have a Bow hitting for 60,000 on almost every single shot. yet Warframe Builder would never tell you that, it'll tell you Bows deal ~20,000 Damage on a body shot.

 

but we certainly know otherwise, with it ranging between more like 3000 and 80,000.

Didn't I say it already. I know the crits were averaged but the burst given by crits were enough to outdps non-crit builds. It's a matter of bursts and non-bursts.

 

There are much more advantage in having a crit build than non-crit builds. There would be lifesaver moments where the burst actually saved you from most likely getting knocked down by a heavy hiding behind a door.

 

It doesn't matter if an enemy is overkilled or not by crits because eventually, if you are aiming for real challenge, the higher DPS your gun can produce the better since it would not fall-off quickly on endless missions.

 

Lastly, producing unnecessary element combos is an obvious disadvantage. Just take a look at having Blast because you already used Toxic and Elec for Corrosive. Blast only does more damage against Fossilized enemies which are the ancients, Corrosive already does alot to ancients, that means you are overkilling ancients which isn't even necessary because the real threats are the heavies. Viral + Radiation for x4 corrosive aura setup, same as my argument on Corrosive + Blast, better just focus on increasing Viral than adding Radiation combo which is only useful killing robots since bombards are already stripped off their armors having only their cloned-flesh left. That being said, adding the dual stat elems to produce more corrosive or viral means another reduction to the overall dps.

 

Now if you would excuse me.

Edited January 25, 2015 by LisRestall

[taiiat]

8% higher theoretical nonapplicable DPS is better than Damage that doesn't kill things sometimes resulting in your death

 

Corrosive against Infested

so then, what happens when a few shots don't get good Crits, whatever it is doesn't die, and you do instead.

 

 

using Corrosive against Infested is moderately scrubby. if you're playing against low Level Enemies, then i guess it doesn't matter, but if we assume Enemies will be more difficult to kill and actually be 'tanky' at some point, you're really going to miss Blast if you didn't bring that as a main Damage Type.

you definitely will appreciate the extra CC from knockdowns when you stop killing everything with one bullet.

 

unless your Weapon(s) have terrible Status Chance, then i guess just stand there and unload some more Ammunition, brocookie.

[LisRestall]

so then, what happens when a few shots don't get good Crits, whatever it is doesn't die, and you do instead.

 

 

using Corrosive against Infested is moderately scrubby. if you're playing against low Level Enemies, then i guess it doesn't matter, but if we assume Enemies will be more difficult to kill and actually be 'tanky' at some point, you're really going to miss Blast if you didn't bring that as a main Damage Type.

you definitely will appreciate the extra CC from knockdowns when you stop killing everything with one bullet.

 

unless your Weapon(s) have terrible Status Chance, then i guess just stand there and unload some more Ammunition, brocookie.

Lol? Who in the right mind appreciates blast procs? Well maybe that's you, but im more into focusing on headshots than relying on blast when my damage starts to fall-off. No wonder why you build that way. Nevermind me then cause you'll never understand my level of play from yours.

[taiiat]

but im more into focusing on headshots than relying on blast when my damage starts to fall-off. 

unless you have a 100% slow at all times, i don't see that as being practical. they're going to destroy your Defense Objective (since you're probably talking about Defense) before you kill them if you think Damage is the crutch that will always save you.

 

this is a PvE game, we all survive and play until we get bored with Crowd Control. because then you don't lose the Mission before you kill your level unobtainium Enemies.

[LisRestall]

unless you have a 100% slow at all times, i don't see that as being practical. they're going to destroy your Defense Objective (since you're probably talking about Defense) before you kill them if you think Damage is the crutch that will always save you.

 

this is a PvE game, we all survive and play until we get bored with Crowd Control. because then you don't lose the Mission before you kill your level unobtainium Enemies.

It's never practical indeed, for some players that is, and that is understandable especially those who heavily relies on teammates or such procs like blast.

[Spargeus]

Someone give this man a cookie

[Racercowboy]

Two slots to multiply your damage by some ungodly amount?

 

I think it's a fair trade.

[Oberonight]

If Serration is indeed removed then I say no due to one more mod slot being available.

If Serration stays then I say yes.

[LasersGoPewPew]

a combo mod that made it so you can't equip point strike/vital sense-but gave bonuses of both, so 140% crit damage,150% crit chance.; they could increase the mod cost to double-as its' the full power of two mods that sync up.-so instead of 9 points at max, 18 points at max rank, could still be a 5 rank mod.;

 

the point being one bonus mod slot and still gaining bonuses of both mods....

[Apex_Nemachode]

Lol? Who in the right mind appreciates blast procs? Well maybe that's you, but im more into focusing on headshots than relying on blast when my damage starts to fall-off. No wonder why you build that way. Nevermind me then cause you'll never understand my level of play from yours.

I...I...I appreciate....b-b-blast procs :(

[DeadlyBard676]

if there are a mod that was a combined version of vital sense and point stike i would see people using it with both those mods on a soma prime to get red crits, which i firmly believe should only be caused by bows and snipers. we dont need a red criting assault rifle

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'd rather them add another mod so I can stack those crits. So sure as long as the prior cards remain in my inventory.