Excalibur As A Proper Melee Frame/space Ninja

[jmforeman02]

Not sure why this thread exists. It seems to be a duplicate of one I was making. Moderator please delete this or merge it with the one by the same title on the front page.

Edited January 27, 2015 by jmforeman02

[Eric1738]

if anything DE should first make his syndicate mods not suck... i'm fine if DE want excalibur to be melee-focused, but those mods are simply too bad to accomplish anything

Edited January 27, 2015 by Eric1738

[TheOnlyWarBear]

In all honesty, just because Iron Skin is awesome and Stomp stops everything from moving, doesn't make Rhino an "all-around" frame. I'd say Volt is a pretty balanced all-around frame, but not Rhino. But I see your point about Excal :D

[Bobtm]

I don't really want to see Excalibur be unnecessarily shoe-horned into a hardlined melee focus.

 

Ash hits home more in a specified melee focus area, as does Valkyr.  Excalibur is a frame who's good at melee, but good at other things too.  Basically I just don't quite think he needs to exist in that specialist realm.

 

He speaks more to an allrounder role in a "non-defensive" route.  Whereas everyone's favotire* Rhino is a more devensive allrounder.

 

Edit;  While on that note, Volt would, in my opinion, fall into allrounder "tactical".

Edited January 27, 2015 by Bobtm

[shut]

I don't really want to see Excalibur be unnecessarily shoe-horned into a hardlined melee focus.

 

Agreed.

Excalibur is designed as the frame that's approachable by new players, but a melee specialist doesn't exactly fall under that definition. I'm fine with Excal being a melee specialist, just as long as it doesn't detract from his role as an all-rounder. (A role that he currently fits very well, thank you very much. Good amount of mobility, decent raw damage at lower levels, wonderful offensive/defensive crowd control, and three panic-button abilities for any situation.)

 

Excalibur could use a few touch-ups here and there (e.g. the oddly low Stamina value, the animation-lock during Super Jump, etc), but he's great as is, and is already more than viable using pure-melee builds.

Edited January 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[OniDax]

Agreed.

Excalibur is designed as the frame that's approachable by new players, but a melee specialist doesn't exactly fall under that definition. I'm fine with Excal being a melee specialist, just as long as it doesn't detract from his role as an all-rounder. (A role that he currently fits very well, thank you very much. Good amount of mobility, decent raw damage at lower levels, wonderful offensive/defensive crowd control, and three panic-button abilities for any situation.)

 

Excalibur could use a few touch-ups here and there (e.g. the oddly low Stamina value, the animation-lock during Super Jump, etc), but he's great as is, and is already more than viable using pure-melee builds.

 

I don't think any frame should be just a new player frame. The frame still needs to be viable in end-game as the balanced frame. Being a melee specialist doesn't detract from that. Honestly, what I want: increased stamina for Excalibur, and increased a little more than that for Excalibur Prime, Slash Dash and Radial Javelin to count as a melee attack, Super Jump to do a radial stun effect (the same stun that Wyrm/Wyrm Prime can do).

[Bobtm]

Sometimes it gets old being a guy that constantly disagrees with what appear to be countless Excalibur change suggestions for a myriad of reasonings.  Thankfully...

 

I don't think any frame should be just a new player frame. The frame still needs to be viable in end-game as the balanced frame. Being a melee specialist doesn't detract from that. Honestly, what I want: increased stamina for Excalibur, and increased a little more than that for Excalibur Prime, Slash Dash and Radial Javelin to count as a melee attack, Super Jump to do a radial stun effect (the same stun that Wyrm/Wyrm Prime can do).

 

There's my unicorn right here.  A list of ability changes for Excalibur that I've got literally no issues with at all.  Even further that I think they'd be straight up good ideas to have.

[geninrising]

let me just leave this here. It's from an Augment change thread and feel it sits here quite nicely.

These are my ideas and I want them posted on every thread I see his name on. 

 

Excalibur

The first change that I would suggest be implemented is that all of Excalibur's strikes through power use be counted as melee strikes(and thus obtain the damage bonus from melee multiplier). We already know this is a mechanic in game as illustrated by Ash's Blade Storm and I feel this should definitely be an integral part of Ecalibur's kit as he is essentially the melee frame. 

 

Slash Dash 2.0

Excalibur Rushes forward damaging all targets in a 8m wide path adding to his combo counter based on the number of enemies struck(damaging range width is not affected by power range to prevent OP slash dash builds that are immortal, in addition only slash dash has this mechanic, RJ does not). Melee combo counter would increase the damage dealt. This would incentivize players to utilize this ability often and cement Excal's role as the melee frame.

 

Surging Dash 2.0

At the end of Slash Dash Excalibur produces a pulse of energy knocking all targets back from him to a range of 10 meters. Enemies knocked will deal a small amount of physics damage to other enemies also pushing them back to the maximum range(range of the pulse is not affected by power range). Considering the damage dealt would be minimal I see no issue with providing the combo counter damage bonus here as well.

 

 

I feel Super Jump should be removed from Excal's kit entirely and be implemented as a sort of charged jump to every frames kit. Allow players to expend X amount of stamina in order to charge a jump that will increase it's height and speed.

 

Excal's new 3.

Empowered strikes

for 50 energy Excalibur gains double scaling on all additions to his melee combo counter for 20 seconds(affected by duration)in addition Excalibur gains a bonus 20% damage to all melee hits(I thought about adding power str scaling to this as well but thought that with the combined 2x combo multiplier it would be insanely strong, as it stands it would be more than worthwhile to his kit).

 

Augment: Stunning Strikes

While Empowered strikes is active Excalibur's attacks will stun a target for 2 second thus allowing him to allow melee in extremely dangerous situations if tactically applied to high threat targets.

 

Furious Javelin 2.0

Changed to further reinforce the melee dynamic through another means that Excal lacks. 

RJ now produces an additional shield for Excal made of blades that deflect incoming damage for 5 seconds allowing him to close the gap with enemies without fear of being instantly destroyed once levels escalate.

 

Through careful synergetic use of these abilities Excalibur is able to always ensure that his entire kit is viable and truly impactful throughout the entire game.

Edited January 27, 2015 by geninrising

[Holeypaladin]

Excalibur really does need to be redesigned into a melee frame.  As well as given passives to bonus his sword damage.

 

Currently his only melee power is slash dash, which is in slot 1 and therefore pretty weak later in the game.

 

Jump is terrible.

 

Blind is terrible because it requires AOE.  All other CC is better.

 

Radial javelin is the only power that's useful, and only for rep farming type stuff.

 

Excalibur is meant as a sort of jack of all trades type warframe, but he's really a "Terrible at all trades except rep farming" right now.

 

I'd kinda like to see javelin's range reduced to 20 so that he's not considered the only viable frame for rep farming, too.  But we'd need to justify this by making his other powers amazing.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[shut]

I don't think any frame should be just a new player frame. The frame still needs to be viable in end-game as the balanced frame. Being a melee specialist doesn't detract from that. Honestly, what I want: increased stamina for Excalibur, and increased a little more than that for Excalibur Prime, Slash Dash and Radial Javelin to count as a melee attack, Super Jump to do a radial stun effect (the same stun that Wyrm/Wyrm Prime can do).

 

I didn't say that Excalibur shouldn't be good at melee or anything; just that the all-around concept is top priority. I'd have absolutely zero complaints if DE made a few tweaks to make Excal both the perfect beginner frame and the perfect melee frame (as long as he didn't become overpowered somehow). XD

 

 

By the way, Slash Dash already adds to the combo counter now (1 per hit, I believe, without the augment mod). Not sure if it scales from it, although it would be really cool if it did.

As for the Javelin thing, I'm a bit against having it add to the combo counter since it would just encourage Range+Efficiency+NaturalTalent builds for spamming, with the nuke becoming increasingly powerful as you hit 4 more often. We don't need P42W to be any more of an issue than it already is. XD

I'd much rather have it so that Javelin scaled from the current combo counter, without adding anything to it. So it becomes a perfectly viable tactic for players to charge into a fight, rack up a combo to effectively "charge up" their ultimate, then unleash it when the time was right. It would also open up some opportunities with Surging Dash builds and low-damage melee builds, which would be interesting to see.

 

 

 

Changes to Excal that I'd personally love to see:

Slash Dash

Just let its damage scale from the combo counter. Maybe stagger enemies at a 100% rate; nothing too powerful like a knockdown or a stun, though.

 

Blind

Just fix the LoS mechanics in this game so it works more reliably. Also cause the LoS to come out of the tip of the sword as well, so you can blind enemies by poking the top of your sword out of cover.

That aside, this ability is darn near flawless.

 

Super Jump

1. Decrease the post-cast delay, and officially support wallrun-jumping for this ability. Right now it can only be done by releasing Jump while holding 3, which I assume is a glitch.

2. Slightly increase the takeoff AoE stagger range. Maybe around 8-10m at base, affected by Range.

If the Invisibility must stay, then just leave it as it is, I guess. It feels arbitrary as hell, but there's no denying that it's amazingly useful. One of the best panic buttons in the game as it is.

 

Radial Javelin

As I mentioned above, just allow it to scale from combo multipliers without adding to them or refreshing them.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. Since we're using disposable ethereal Skanas anyway, perhaps shorten the casting animation by cutting off the "pull sword out of the ground" part. The Skana that we just jammed into the ground can stay where we jammed it, maybe disappearing after a few seconds.

tl;dr - Direct buffs that reward a variety of gameplay strategies without disabling anything that we can currently do.

Edited January 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[OniDax]

I didn't say that Excalibur shouldn't be good at melee or anything; just that the all-around concept is top priority. I'd have absolutely zero complaints if DE made a few tweaks to make Excal both the perfect beginner frame and the perfect melee frame (as long as he didn't become overpowered somehow). XD

 

 

By the way, Slash Dash already adds to the combo counter now (1 per hit, I believe, without the augment mod). Not sure if it scales from it, although it would be really cool if it did.

As for the Javelin thing, I'm a bit against having it add to the combo counter since it would just encourage Range+Efficiency+NaturalTalent builds for spamming, with the nuke becoming increasingly powerful as you hit 4 more often. We don't need P42W to be any more of an issue than it already is. XD

I'd much rather have it so that Javelin scaled from the current combo counter, without adding anything to it. So it becomes a perfectly viable tactic for players to charge into a fight, rack up a combo to effectively "charge up" their ultimate, then unleash it when the time was right. It would also open up some opportunities with Surging Dash builds and low-damage melee builds, which would be interesting to see.

 

 

 

Changes to Excal that I'd personally love to see:

Slash Dash

Just let its damage scale from the combo counter. Maybe stagger enemies at a 100% rate; nothing too powerful like a knockdown or a stun, though.

 

Blind

Just fix the LoS mechanics in this game so it works more reliably. Also cause the LoS to come out of the tip of the sword as well, so you can blind enemies by poking the top of your sword out of cover.

That aside, this ability is darn near flawless.

 

Super Jump

1. Decrease the post-cast delay, and officially support wallrun-jumping for this ability. Right now it can only be done by releasing Jump while holding 3, which I assume is a glitch.

2. Slightly increase the takeoff AoE stagger range. Maybe around 8-10m at base, affected by Range.

If the Invisibility must stay, then just leave it as it is, I guess. It feels arbitrary as hell, but there's no denying that it's amazingly useful. One of the best panic buttons in the game as it is.

 

Radial Javelin

As I mentioned above, just allow it to scale from combo multipliers without adding to them or refreshing them.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. Since we're using disposable ethereal Skanas anyway, perhaps shorten the casting animation by cutting off the "pull sword out of the ground" part. The Skana that we just jammed into the ground can stay where we jammed it, maybe disappearing after a few seconds.

tl;dr - Direct buffs that reward a variety of gameplay strategies without disabling anything that we can currently do.

 

Honestly, the only reason I really would like for Slash Dash, and Radial Javelin maybe, to be a melee attack, as in, it counts as a melee attack, is because then it'd add to the Syndicate melee weapon augment mod's counter, and it'd count for things like the "get X number of melee kills" challenges. And, just overall, it'd feel natural, imo, if those abilities (at least the Slash Dash) counted as a melee attack instead of just upping the counter.

[Astrotrap]

In all honesty, just because Iron Skin is awesome and Stomp stops everything from moving, doesn't make Rhino an "all-around" frame. I'd say Volt is a pretty balanced all-around frame, but not Rhino. But I see your point about Excal :D

Rhino has good mobility, decent defense, a nice buff, and 4 for CC/nuke.

 

Rhino DOES have everything.

[Sta1kher]

Ill be kind this morning and just say this, anyone who says Excalibur is broken or otherwise really needs to go back and play him again. His skill set is amazing and shouldn't be touched (and like stated before slash dash bleed proc would be nice). His augment mods have different uses and should be your only argument.

 

I've stated in "many" other Excalibur rework threads, if you'd like some help I'll gladly show you how to play him.

[MDRLOz]

if anything DE should first make his syndicate mods not suck... i'm fine if DE want excalibur to be melee-focused, but those mods are simply too bad to accomplish anything

Ummm I feel I need to weigh in here. 

 

I like where Excalibur is now. He can be built in to a fun melee centric frame and easily produce high combo counters and melee damage. 

 

I feel that people are trying to slot his existing augments into their current play styles, not getting much return and then complaining. 

 

The augments you can get for Excalibur add a bit of diversity to your play. You now can take both augments and produce a high combo counting, damage boosting ninja. 

 

The problems with this however are the same problems all melee play suffers. No defence, no sustain and combo count falls off far to easily. However these are problems with the melee system and not excalibur. 

 

Also I like to check... are people still running duration builds to boost Radial blind, then equipping the slash dash augment and saying it sucks because they hit walls? Because that is being silly, take that duration off and build a sensible slash dash first and you will find it useful.

[geninrising]

I didn't say that Excalibur shouldn't be good at melee or anything; just that the all-around concept is top priority. I'd have absolutely zero complaints if DE made a few tweaks to make Excal both the perfect beginner frame and the perfect melee frame (as long as he didn't become overpowered somehow). XD

 

 

By the way, Slash Dash already adds to the combo counter now (1 per hit, I believe, without the augment mod). Not sure if it scales from it, although it would be really cool if it did.

As for the Javelin thing, I'm a bit against having it add to the combo counter since it would just encourage Range+Efficiency+NaturalTalent builds for spamming, with the nuke becoming increasingly powerful as you hit 4 more often. We don't need P42W to be any more of an issue than it already is. XD

I'd much rather have it so that Javelin scaled from the current combo counter, without adding anything to it. So it becomes a perfectly viable tactic for players to charge into a fight, rack up a combo to effectively "charge up" their ultimate, then unleash it when the time was right. It would also open up some opportunities with Surging Dash builds and low-damage melee builds, which would be interesting to see.

 

 

 

Changes to Excal that I'd personally love to see:

Slash Dash

Just let its damage scale from the combo counter. Maybe stagger enemies at a 100% rate; nothing too powerful like a knockdown or a stun, though.

 

Blind

Just fix the LoS mechanics in this game so it works more reliably. Also cause the LoS to come out of the tip of the sword as well, so you can blind enemies by poking the top of your sword out of cover.

That aside, this ability is darn near flawless.

 

Super Jump

1. Decrease the post-cast delay, and officially support wallrun-jumping for this ability. Right now it can only be done by releasing Jump while holding 3, which I assume is a glitch.

2. Slightly increase the takeoff AoE stagger range. Maybe around 8-10m at base, affected by Range.

If the Invisibility must stay, then just leave it as it is, I guess. It feels arbitrary as hell, but there's no denying that it's amazingly useful. One of the best panic buttons in the game as it is.

 

Radial Javelin

As I mentioned above, just allow it to scale from combo multipliers without adding to them or refreshing them.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. Since we're using disposable ethereal Skanas anyway, perhaps shorten the casting animation by cutting off the "pull sword out of the ground" part. The Skana that we just jammed into the ground can stay where we jammed it, maybe disappearing after a few seconds.

tl;dr - Direct buffs that reward a variety of gameplay strategies without disabling anything that we can currently do.

I too felt the need for a change in the Radial Javelin augment idea. Now the augment creates a damage reflecting set of blades for 5 seconds allowing Excal to close the gap with enemies more effectively without casting an additional ability.

[Eric1738]

-snip-

still the effect is not good enough for me. 2% damage boost for each enemy is ridiculously low. while melee counter is fun to use. it's unrealisitic to expect a constant high counter in mid-high level mission on excalibur, because like u said, he has no defense no sustain. compared to some of the "melee" warframe like ash loki and valkyr. excalibur is far away from being viable as a melee frame.