[Ooc/q&a/recruiting]The Setup, Redux & The Lounge

[XionicoRX]

It's really important?

[IceDragonofAmber]

Of course! How else shall I crush their brains with memetic hazards without the proper information?

Edited December 16, 2015 by IceDragonofAmber

[XionicoRX]

My OC's favorite colour? Brown or dark green. I hope this will be enough, to smash my brain. ^^

[Owlrrex]

Souna's favourite color? Do you really have to ask? 

Blue.

HAH! Gotcha! Just joking. It's gold, of course. 

 

Maina's favourite color is green, closely followed by skyblue.

[Rehtael7]

Orina's favorite color? The color of blood, naturally.

[Ghost333]

Hexer's is Green and Grey. Or Grey and Green. Sometimes with blue highlights.

 

Umbra doesn't have a favourite, but he does tend to agree with black/white/grey/red.

[(PSN)batman200087]

Belrev's favorite colors:

 

Black

 

Red

 

Gray

 

Navy Blue

 

White

[DellSalami]

Krenn's favorite is crimson, the blood of his enemies.

 

Alternatively, it's gold, because bling.

[Exoteran]

Ok I have to admit it: I'm dreadfully lost. What's happening with U18 and why is everyone busting a nut over it?

[Rehtael7]

Ok I have to admit it: I'm dreadfully lost. What's happening with U18 and why is everyone busting a nut over it?

It turns a lot of the lore up on its head, and answers many, many, many of the questions we've asking for so very long.

[IceDragonofAmber]

It's been revealed that the frames we've been using and getting attached to are just empty puppets being controlled by some snob of a child that just f*cks off at the back of our lisets, pretty much undermining the Tenno, what they stand for and everything they've gone through.

Like for example, all those Tenno we supposedly sacrifced millions of civilians to save during Gradivous? All just replaceable puppets.

Although it doesn't actually go that far in our RP (since our OCs still have their own emotions and personalities) it still does kinda undermine our characters.

[DellSalami]

Ok I have to admit it: I'm dreadfully lost. What's happening with U18 and why is everyone busting a nut over it?

Because it reveals that the Tenno are children, Warframes are empty, and we can make our own face and voice

[XionicoRX]

It's not so bad, when you think about it.

[Rehtael7]

It's been revealed that the frames we've been using and getting attached to are just empty puppets being controlled by some snob of a child that just f*cks off at the back of our lisets, pretty much undermining the Tenno, what they stand for and everything they've gone through.

Like for example, all those Tenno we supposedly sacrifced millions of civilians to save during Gradivous? All just replaceable puppets.

Although it doesn't actually go that far in our RP (since our OCs still have their own emotions and personalities) it still does kinda undermine our characters.

It may not. As the Lotus explained, it was like waking from a lucid, second dream, meaning the Tenno very well believed that the warframes were their true forms, so you can write that off fairly easily as the Tenno not realizing what they were.

[Owlrrex]

The problem is that the changes are too grave to adapt to them on the fly while continuing the already-running RPs. And people of course don't want to cancel those and retcon all their OCs. 

 

Getting attached to a warframe was the wrong approach from the start, in my opinion. A Tenno is not defined by his/her abilites in-frame alone, rather are the abilites one of many ways to express the personality of the Tenno. This personality should be what makes you want to play your characters - be it inside the frame physically, or only mentally.

[(PSN)qwerty1310]

Ivan likes the color of blood

Evan, yellow, because happy

[Rehtael7]

The problem is that the changes are too grave to adapt to them on the fly while continuing the already-running RPs. And people of course don't want to cancel those and retcon all their OCs. 

 

Getting attached to a warframe was the wrong approach from the start, in my opinion. A Tenno is not defined by his/her abilites in-frame alone, rather are the abilites one of many ways to express the personality of the Tenno. This personality should be what makes you want to play your characters - be it inside the frame physically, or only mentally.

I agree. It's why ALL of my frames are female. I started with Mag, and wanted to believe it could be the same Tenno in all of them. (This was around U13)

[SpaceHelicopters]

It's been revealed that the frames we've been using and getting attached to are just empty puppets being controlled by some snob of a child that just f*cks off at the back of our lisets, pretty much undermining the Tenno, what they stand for and everything they've gone through.

Like for example, all those Tenno we supposedly sacrifced millions of civilians to save during Gradivous? All just replaceable puppets.

Although it doesn't actually go that far in our RP (since our OCs still have their own emotions and personalities) it still does kinda undermine our characters.

 

Not trying to start something, but that's some pretty toxic thinking, friend.

 

Now know what I'm about to say is merely my attempt at a counter argument.

 

So first thing I'm going to shake my stick at is the whole "Tenno-Warrior Mentality." I think one of the main problems behind all this was the gutsy move on DE's end of not only introducing the Tenno as a separate entity, but as children, which brings on an assumed belief of helplessness that subtracts from the badass belief of Tenno. But remember: though a dream, the Tenno for the longest time truly believed that they were the Warframes, meaning that all the ninja parkour, masterful weapon wielding, and general badassery we've performed in-game over the years was done and ingrained into their minds. Were it not for centuries of muscle atrophy, don't you think the Tenno, even if they are kids, could perform some if not all of the things we've made our frames do?

 

Adding onto this, just because they look like children, doesn't mean they have a childish mentality. Remember, they thought they were the warframes; they were treated as warriors and therefore most likely adopted the warrior mentality. Yeah, sometimes they cut in on a mission with something goofy to say, but in all honesty it's based on what voice you choose your operator to have. Besides, as they say, "Maturity breeds immaturity." I can personally say that the more I've grown, the more immature I've gotten. It's the brains way of defying maturity, and let's face it: the Tenno may look 13, but they're actually hundreds of years old. I mean, if you've been treated like a tool for so long, you're either going to stay a tool, or take advantage of your new-found freedom.

 

And finally, the stereotype that children are helpless just isn't always true. In the news, we see stories of 10 year-olds stopping jewelry store roberies, taking the wheel to prevent their grandfather who's currently having a heart attack in order to avoid oncoming traffic, and even performing heart surgery (I'm not kidding, look it up, that story is amazing). The fact that you're a Tenno means so much more; you're not just a kid, you're the most badass kid in the solar system: you can freaking control void energy, which in most cases either kills you or drives you mad, and not only that, you've been disciplined in one of 5 (I'm pretty sure, to lazy to look up, correct me if I'm wrong) schools that have trained you to be a warrior wielding power ranging from pure, unadulterated destruction to mending and mind control. While, yes, you do seem pretty damn helpless when you fall out of the somatic link and have to be carried princess style to safety, even a grown adult would be completely helpless after not moving for centuries, meaning that this detail can't be used in the argument.

 

Now, regarding the Gradivus Dilemma, while yes, warframes are mechanical/biological puppets and we lost a lot, being on the side of the Tenno has made us forget just how difficult getting and building a warframe is, which would still explain how debilitating a loss of so many warframes would be.

 

Think about it; neither the Grineer or Corpus have access to warframes and have to result to sacrificing copious amounts of troops, credits, and resources to overpower or locate active or dormant frames. Just because we have access to them, does not by any means mean that warframes are easy to obtain. If your warframe expires on the field, do you just make another? No, you reclaim it, sacrifice a limited charge to revive it, or hope to hell someone else gets them active again. In order to build the frames, in most cases you need to kill someone very important and defended who has access to often stolen or recovered information required to view the blueprint, then you need to manipulate some of hands down the most dangerous materials in the system in order to create them. Newer frames require argon crystals, a material that decays quick and gives off deadly amounts of radiation. All frames require infestation in some form, and we know just how destructive a single spore can be. Finally, almost every frame needs one or several orokin cells, which while you may have hundreds in your inventory, are rare and highly sought after bits of orokin technology that can give off an infinite amount of power. 

 

With all this in mind, is it really far-fetched to believe losing hundreds of thousands of these metal puppets can be a severe setback? Not only that, but the people hellbent on annihilating you are taking your lovingly constructed puppets and deconstructing them to make more efficient and effective ways of deconstructing them on the battlefield. 

 

Please don't be upset with me; I'm not picking a fight, I'm merely arguing for the sake of debate. Personally, I love U18, but for reasons that some people hate it. A lot of people felt that giving the Tenno a face took "them" out of the game, and I completely agree. That's why I love it. I'm not that adorable little purple-haired girl who bears the name SpaceHelicopters and pops in every once in a while to give her two-cents on my current situation. I am the beautiful machine of death and destruction currently ankle deep in an eviscerated Grineer clad in green and red armor with silver bells attached to my fists that jingle with every debilitating hit that's about to go down because the enemies around me are upset I killed their friend.

 

They're also level 120.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Rehtael, in regards to you OC, I believe you misunderstood; by physical appearance I meant not your warframe's color scheme, but

your frame-bearer's face, not your Tenno's, as well as their out-of-frame attire.

 

I also believe that the changes I'd like to make regarding this thread and U18 have also been misunderstood.

No actual changes are required for your Oc's; they can have personalities and backstories, hell, they don't even have to have a Tenno, per se. Your OC's are independent and can think on their own, merely their consciousness' are tied to their Tenno, which can be introduce should you choose to via a separate OC. 

 

Should you not want to have a Tenno, merely come up with an excuse as to why they still haven't awoken for the second time and your OC has no idea where they are. For reasons unknown, perhaps your Tenno wasn't at the resevoir, but they're still out there, which is why you're currently conscious. Just know that because of this, you won't have access to Tenno support in thread, though I assume that if you don't want a Tenno, you've come to peace with that revelation.

 

If this still isn't clear, or you have further questions, then please, by all means, ask me. I'm still undecided on where exactly in the IC I'm going to pick up, so I've got free time to answer you inquiries until I come to a decision.

 

SIDE-NOTE! I've decided to host a sort of 'redemption' stream since no one could hear me and I didn't get to answer questions because of it. No date has been set, but I'd like to do it early next week if possible. I'd like to plan with you all in order to increase turnout, so tell me your wish-time (Converting to Central time would cut out a step for me) and day o' th' week and I'll see what I can jury-rig for ya'll. ;p

Edited December 17, 2015 by SpaceHelicopters

[Aegia-]

Space,

It's not the fact it's taken them out of the game, speaking from a strictly story-based roleplay perspective

It's almost like the biggest middle finger someone can give to a community like this.
Imagine that you, like me, and everyone else on the forum, have a myriad OCs. They all have hopes, dreams, needs, wants, emotions, and desires. Everything that makes them a believable character in this universe. Now imagine if you will in depth just what U18 has done.

It's taken every single one of those characters, crumpled them up and tossed them in the trash. Why? Because now we've got a 10 year old Operator sitting in the back of the Orbiter, effectively making them invincible. There is nothing in a Warframe, according to U18. It's just the materials you've made and flesh shoved inside. This in turn devalues them abysmally. Sure, they might have dangerous, expensive materials in them, but THAT'S ALL YOU'RE LOSING. You are no longer having to fear death, by embracing U18 in RP. Sure, it may hurt the Operators when the Warframe goes down and has to be revived. But the Warframe dying does not adversely affect them in any way. You, and by extension, the Operators no longer have to care about that Tenno in the Warframe, or whatever it is that U18 says it is, because there's no emotional attachment to it. You lost a toy. A tool. Do you mourn the loss of a tool? No. It's human nature (and arguably moreso for the Orokin, whom the Operators descend from) to attribute minimal worth to something made to be used. A tool. In one swoop, DE was able to make every single OC irrelevant and force you to make a @(*()$ child. A child, whom despite all you say regarding maturity and warrior mentality, is still a child.
This means that their value of something's worth is far lower than a rational adult's. They break their Warframe, they just send out another to go pick up the groceries they need for another one while they sit back and relax in a chair in a void-masked Orbiter, effectively invisible.

And regarding these @(*()$ children, any and ALL character interaction is now either gone or moot. Essentially, you plop down two Warframes in a room before U18, and they strike up a conversation, etc. Etc. Now, put two Warframes in a room, and nothing will happen. It doesn't need to (hell it might not even be able to). Why? Because of the Operators behind the impervious metal and void curtain. There's no need for interaction when you're essentially taking piles of credits and materials to a mission to have them do what needs to be done.
The Warframes(Tenno, your OCs) are no longer characters, but personal attack dogs for a child that cares so little about it's well-being, that they will sooner build another one than risk feeling the sensation of pain themselves to retrieve that particular Warframe.

U18 does NOT make for good RP. There is no inherent risk to anything anymore, there is no meaningful character interaction (no rivalry, no "love can bloom," none of that.)
Honestly, I'm starting to think DE is trying to get me to make Corpus and Grineer characters just to escape from this awful canon they've laid out. Thanks, but no thanks, I'm not retconning all of the characters I spent time and love making just because I now have to be limited to one amnesiac kid that sits in a god damned chair all day.

 

Not to mention that two of the foremost quests involving Warframes in game (Limbo Theorem and Mirage) now make no sense, because the fact that the original Limbo is dead because of a Riftwalk gone wrong holds no importance now that he was just a kid in a chair. And with Mirage, why the hell would the Lotus be so torn up about the fact that she lost one of the suits? That it "died" per se? Because it had no life to begin with. Mirage is sitting in a chair.

Don't mind me, it's just the fact that I'm ABSOLUTELY @(*()$ LIVID that no one seems to mind tossing their characters in the garbage for this awful revelation.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Starnsy_Warnsy

[XionicoRX]

Spacey, I dunno about others, but it would be nice if you'd do stream at 3 to 5 PM CST, because for obvious reasons when living in Eastern Europe. But if you did it at Friday or Saturday, I wouldn't mind if it would be like last time.

Edited December 17, 2015 by XionicoRX

[SpaceHelicopters]

Space,

It's not the fact it's taken them out of the game, speaking from a strictly story-based roleplay perspective

It's almost like the biggest middle finger someone can give to a community like this.

Imagine that you, like me, and everyone else on the forum, have a myriad OCs. They all have hopes, dreams, needs, wants, emotions, and desires. Everything that makes them a believable character in this universe. Now imagine if you will in depth just what U18 has done.

It's taken every single one of those characters, crumpled them up and tossed them in the trash. Why? Because now we've got a 10 year old Operator sitting in the back of the Orbiter, effectively making them invincible. There is nothing in a Warframe, according to U18. It's just the materials you've made and flesh shoved inside. This in turn devalues them abysmally. Sure, they might have dangerous, expensive materials in them, but THAT'S ALL YOU'RE LOSING. You are no longer having to fear death, by embracing U18 in RP. Sure, it may hurt the Operators when the Warframe goes down and has to be revived. But the Warframe dying does not adversely affect them in any way. You, and by extension, the Operators no longer have to care about that Tenno in the Warframe, or whatever it is that U18 says it is, because there's no emotional attachment to it. You lost a toy. A tool. Do you mourn the loss of a tool? No. It's human nature (and arguably moreso for the Orokin, whom the Operators descend from) to attribute minimal worth to something made to be used. A tool. In one swoop, DE was able to make every single OC irrelevant and force you to make a @(*()$ child. A child, whom despite all you say regarding maturity and warrior mentality, is still a child.

This means that their value of something's worth is far lower than a rational adult's. They break their Warframe, they just send out another to go pick up the groceries they need for another one while they sit back and relax in a chair in a void-masked Orbiter, effectively invisible.

And regarding these @(*()$ children, any and ALL character interaction is now either gone or moot. Essentially, you plop down two Warframes in a room before U18, and they strike up a conversation, etc. Etc. Now, put two Warframes in a room, and nothing will happen. It doesn't need to (hell it might not even be able to). Why? Because of the Operators behind the impervious metal and void curtain. There's no need for interaction when you're essentially taking piles of credits and materials to a mission to have them do what needs to be done.

The Warframes(Tenno, your OCs) are no longer characters, but personal attack dogs for a child that cares so little about it's well-being, that they will sooner build another one than risk feeling the sensation of pain themselves to retrieve that particular Warframe.

U18 does NOT make for good RP. There is no inherent risk to anything anymore, there is no meaningful character interaction (no rivalry, no "love can bloom," none of that.)

Honestly, I'm starting to think DE is trying to get me to make Corpus and Grineer characters just to escape from this awful canon they've laid out. Thanks, but no thanks, I'm not retconning all of the characters I spent time and love making just because I now have to be limited to one amnesiac kid that sits in a god damned chair all day.

 

Not to mention that two of the foremost quests involving Warframes in game (Limbo Theorem and Mirage) now make no sense, because the fact that the original Limbo is dead because of a Riftwalk gone wrong holds no importance now that he was just a kid in a chair. And with Mirage, why the hell would the Lotus be so torn up about the fact that she lost one of the suits? That it "died" per se? Because it had no life to begin with. Mirage is sitting in a chair.

Don't mind me, it's just the fact that I'm ABSOLUTELY @(*()$ LIVID that no one seems to mind tossing their characters in the garbage for this awful revelation.

 

I'm genuinely enjoying this discussion. I'm also afraid of it.

See, my problem with this mentality is that it's not the case. At least, it doesn't have to be. This is all subjective, which is the beauty of it all, really.

 

If you'll allow me, let's pick apart your argument:

 

All we know for sure about warframes is that they are not worn by the Tenno. And while yes, we do know the components that go into a warframe, nowhere in the U18 did they say they were empty. All Alad says is that he's opened one up before, and if the heart isn't in its chest, then where is it? It's cryptic, and perhaps not meant in a literal sense, but even if it is, it's one organ, albeit an important one. Though based on human anatomy, perhaps the internal design is a bit different; containing redundancies in order to compensate for internal damage. Like instead of a singular, dedicated bundle of muscle to circulate blood, it has a complex system of autonomous muscle clusters that can still remain functional even with serious damage.

 

Anyway, back on topic, next we come to losing a frame, and one detail I have to credit IrishHades with bringing to my attention. So we know that regardless of whether there's a person in the suit or not, there's biology in there which justifies their need for cryo-sleep. Assuming that a dormant Tenno is only bound to one frame, and said frame is destroyed, what then? The Tenno is made completely helpless, incapable of building another since you need a warframe in order to gather the components to make a warframe. 

 

Also, you forget that the Zariman children were experimented on by the Orokin, but they themselves are not Orokin. Tenno are descendants of humans, tainted and warped by void energy exposure. It seems like a small detail, but it comes with something very special and means the Tenno possess probably the most important thing they could have inherited from humanity; our mentality.

 

You say we don't get attached to inanimate objects, but that's wrong. It's that very attachment that's given birth to this argument in the first place. Human's possess the uncanny ability to impose our thoughts and beliefs on objects and grow attached to them. I'm guilty of it; many people are. It's kind of a stupid thing about us, but only we can do it, and that's what makes it so amazing. We can become so obsessed with objects that it physically hurts us when they're damaged or destroyed. Hell, you would not believe how angry I get when someone simply puts a drink dangerously too close to my laptop.

 

Age also isn't a valid determining factor in appraising value. It varies from person to person, regardless of age or level of development. Besides, warframes are one of the only items of value they possess, and they certainly aren't easy to come by, so why wouldn't they value them? You break a Noggle, that may disappoint you because you have to bust out the plat to replace it. You bust a warframe, and that's a whole different beast. All the hoops you have to jump through, plus you're one warframe short, means a lot more hassle than just buying a new one. Unless you do, but that requires you to bust out the big bucks, and in most cases, you don't have access to that kind of dosh. (Unless you do, but enough of that. We can save plat arguments for later.) 

 

This is only an issue if is empty, and though little, their is evidence against that though it's heavily debated. I'm referring to the moment of potential autonomy that the warframe shows in sacrificing it's body to save it's operator in destroying Hunhow/War. Read into that as you will.

 

Now, social interactions with warframes is not moot, in fact this also further credits the Tenno's reliance on the frame. I mean, it makes sense that a Tenno wouldn't risk going out in person, it's a gutsy move that is liable to end badly. Lot of people would love nothing more than to capture a Tenno, whether it be to advance science, or make a quick and rather hefty buck. This means that the frames not only serve a purpose as self-defense, but as a social interface; kind of like sick kids who use those tower-y looking robots to attend school. You sit two warframes together, and even if they aren't conscious themselves, at least you have two Tenno speaking to each other.

 

The fact that they aren't willing to go out and personally retrieve their fallen warframe isn't a callous act in and of itself, it's one seeped in an understandable amount of caution. If Tenno would personally go after their frames, then it would turn into and easy way to lure the, out of safety and over-time push the race of balance to extinction.

 

I mean, let's say I were a wanted criminal. Shoot-on-sight severity. You, in your infinite mercy, both sympathize with me and have agreed to pick up some much needed groceries to fuel my life-on-the-run. Somehow, the authorities discover your allegiance with me and tackle you in the center of the supermarket. You know I'm watching this go down on the news, but think about it; could you really blame me if I, knowing full well that it would end in my death, didn't come to your aid? It doesn't mean I don't like you any less, but after your attempt to prolong my life through the acquisition of life-extending food, wouldn't it be counter-productive if I died to reclaim you? (This is a terrible example, but do know that I'd do it anyway. Can't vouch for how successful I'd be, however, but isn't it the thought that counts?)

 

Now, I would like to point out that the Orbiter is not an absolute safety. Though void-masking does hide you from sensors, it leaves trails that can be tracked with Corpus technology as is evident in the radio conversations. This is why the Orbiter is called what it is: it's constantly moving in order to keep from being found.

 

Without a warframe, it's pretty much just a matter of time before your Orbiter is boarded and Tenno contents harvested.

 

To conclude, from an RP perspective, U18 is only a problem if you make it one. You said it was a middle finger. I saw potential. New challenges to overcome, new situations to explore. Where some saw less, I saw more. In answering who the Tenno are, they increased the importance of the answer behind the question of just what a Warframe is. I'm not trying to anger you, though I'm probably doing a great job of doing just that.

 

We don't have to throw out our OCs. We just need to be a bit more flexible. All I need to do is change a couple words and come up with a new Tenno OC. My OCs just can't be called Tenno, and I'm okay with that. It's just a title. They change. Their histories don't have to change simply because there isn't any definitive evidence saying they have to. 

 

I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong. Like I said before; it's subjective. Interpret it how you want.

 

Spacey, I dunno about others, but it would be nice if you'd do stream at 3 to 5 PM CST, because for obvious reasons when living in Eastern Europe. But if you did it at Friday or Saturday, I wouldn't mind if it would be like last time.

 

Noted! :)

[Rehtael7]

 

Rehtael, in regards to you OC, I believe you misunderstood; by physical appearance I meant not your warframe's color scheme, but

your frame-bearer's face, not your Tenno's, as well as their out-of-frame attire.

I was trying to say they're one in the same. Quite truthfully the one and only difference between the Tenno and the "Frame wearer" would be a slightly different haircut, and maybe jet-black hair as opposed to black with green tints. Under the assumption that the frame-wearer CAN leave her suit, I'd assume she'd be wearing simple white clothes, somewhat similar to the Loka leader, minus the funny hat.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Rehtael7

[(PSN)TheCrimsonTuckr]

Tbh guys, do we REALLY Need to be kept up with the Canon? Can't it just be non Canon?

To me RP is just something we make up in the Warframe universe, Spacey you've made a lot. The Chichleds whatever they're calledI forgot, Waystations, Crimson Lotus and so on. Omnipotence that Maine made could not be a Sentient at all and Humans don't exist anymore I think, James Worthington.

RP is just something I think that lets us be in the world WE want to be in with Warframe, not DE's way.

[Rehtael7]

Tbh guys, do we REALLY Need to be kept up with the Canon? Can't it just be non Canon?

To me RP is just something we make up in the Warframe universe, Spacey you've made a lot. The Chichleds whatever they're calledI forgot, Waystations, Crimson Lotus and so on. Omnipotence that Maine made could not be a Sentient at all and Humans don't exist anymore I think, James Worthington.

RP is just something I think that lets us be in the world WE want to be in with Warframe, not DE's way.

Keeping a consistent world for all the players in one RP setting helps create a clear and concise tone, as well as determines what can and cannot happen in that world, which helps combat god-modding and allows for interesting events. Let's say we break cannon and one section of people in an RP session work out a treaty with Alad V (Somehow) where does that leave everyone else?

[(PSN)TheCrimsonTuckr]

Well it'll have to still be fair yes but not everything has to be canon, I've seen Tenno who work for Corpus and so on in RP, as long as it isn't too OP.

Also Corpus Tenno does make it an interesting rival if done well.