A Try At A Civil Take On The R5-Cores-In-T4-Surv Issue

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

OK i will try to sum up the whole issue as civilly and constructively as i can:

First of all this doesn't concern frills and furbelows like syndicate reputation, this is about a very core element of the game (pun intended). Cores equal full mods equal power. Gaining power is one main motivation throughout the whole game progress, doesn't matter if you're a beginner and dreaming of your first maxed serration or a vet trying to max out primed mods.

As it stands the most reliable source for this kind of power is no more. And the thing is, noone even KNOWS why. All we are left with is some rather confusing release notes. So please, DE, be upfront and provide us with an official statement about the following:


"Added a 3 x Orokin Cells to TIII Survival Rewards."

Is this merely a typo?


"Increased the amount of Fusion Cores you get in Void Survival Rewards depending on tier of Survival being played."

What is this supposed to mean? How is this represented in the actual game at the moment?
(Edit: OK from what i gathered new core-pack rewards were indeed added with quantities corresponding to the tower they're found in, which is nice... as an addition. not an adequate compensation, though.)

Now for sake of argument i will just assume this is on purpose and well-intentioned and you just want us to spread out, playing this beautiful game more diversly. I do applaud that.

 

But:

Right now we are left with no real alternative at all. Sure, i will build Akjagara and finish the new quest. Then all there will be left to do is tweak my loadouts again and farm cores to be able to do so. But where?

Some people seriously claim 20~30 r5 cores in an hour was OP: Really? Are you seeing maxed rares and primed mods flying around like nothing? Even "just" maxed rare rank 10 mods can go for 600p. That is a LOT. Even the way it was before maxing one meant weeks of playing one mission type exclusively almost resulting in "work". Alas that pretty much was our endgame. The mission type, monotonous as it got, was fit for it: Being able to go the distance in this mission means to have the best possible loadout, frames, teamplay. At the moment it IS the pinnacle of warframe challenge. So why should one not be rewarded accordingly? Again: It was tedious the way it was before, now it is practically impossible to actively work towards the maximization of a rare/primed mod without getting burnt out. Also survival missions are great fun to me and i'm sure i'm not alone. Well, then again alot of people don't seem to enjoy them. That's O.K., different tastes, that's why i think it would have been a splendid idea to give us more mission types to choose from to accomplish those goals. But we are left with nothing really.

I firmly believe one factor in this idea of cores being available too easy is the omnipresent abundance of T4 keys because of the former syndicate bundles for 5k rep. Yes, THOSE were ridiculous and the nerf more than warranted. But even those would have run dry in the long run anyway. Before long T4 surv would have been something special again.

(Edit: I also think your handling of that nerf was better: We were informed it was inbound a were given a choice for a prospective solution. This isn't the case here.)

Regarding the decision to add cells in itself: Thank you but we don't need them in T4. Sources for cells were manifold already: Multiple bosses drop em quite reliably, we got Semeini etc. ... I have built all prime weapons by now. Sure, i remember sometimes gathering enough for a Dakra Prime e.g. felt a bit like a chore. But in DS you could farm credits at the same time which one could never have enough of anyway... You know what else someone never can have enough of? Cores. The amount of farming required to max mods made the quest for cells look like a walk in the park... And that was before the recent change.

Also we are swimming in core sinks by now. I haven't even considered maxing all (or even one) sentinel and / or archwing rank 10 mods yet since i'm far from done with "regular" stuff and i'm well over 1200 hours of playtime now. More primed mods are inbound every other week. How is someone with a full time job supposed to be able to keep up?

tl;dr:

1. Please be honest and inform us where we are headed.

2. Please reconsider diluting T4 Surv reward tables with Cells. An alternative to the usual core farm would be welcome to everyone. But not nothing.

Thank you.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Althran]

Agreed.

 

I'd much prefer a better chance at prime parts than receiving 3 cells.

[Kthal]

T4 Survival Fusion Core payouts were only 'broken' by comparison to all other gametypes.

 

Given the huge increase in the number of 10 rank mods, Fusion Cores need to be obtainable in much larger quantities. Even ignoring Primed mods, we have Sanctuary, Transient Fortitude, Bite, Maul, Link Health, Link Shields, Link Armour, Hyperion Thrusters, System Reroute, Bleeding Edge, and Lasting Sting, of which, 5 are rare, meaning an additional 1500 rare Fusion Cores are needed for completion.

 

Nerfing T4S down to the level of other gametypes, so as to not force players to grind one mission is perfectly reasonable, but either cores need to be much more frequent (they are slightly as a byproduct of ability mods being removed), or the fusion mechanics need to be reworked. Perhaps something involving Forma to upgrade at the cost of making the mod untradable...?

 

Adding packs of 3x Orokin cells though, that is an extreme letdown.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Kthal

[Hopakkiin]

Agreed. Give us dem Cores. Orokin Cells are great but we need neural sensors..[.]

OK, here is a to do list for DE:

Ban Sheldon From PvP and any other tests.

Add Legendary cores as Reward in T4 (packs of 10)

[Kthal]

Agreed. Give us dem Cores. Orokin Cells are great but we need neural sensors..[.]

OK, here is a to do list for DE:

Ban Sheldon From PvP and any other tests.

Add Legendary cores as Reward in T4 (packs of 10)

 

L3-5 cores would be nice to get added into drop rotations...

[Z0D0M]

@Kotsender_Quasimir: Thank you mate, you just said exactly what a lot of vet players think

My freinds and i didnt wanna make a topic because lot of ppl here doesnt seem to know what's up and lot of them are just trolls jumping on topics just to show up and troll other ppl, even some of them got more then 18 000 replys! so we thought its a wast of time but thank god ppl like you do still exist, so yeah Thank you again and keep it rocking baby.

Edited February 7, 2015 by sacuro

[CarlitoB]

I agree with the OP.

[dashashou]

i agree - that the cores nerf was wrong  and makes t4s pointless 

 

and with 1-2 new primed mods coming out every 2 weeks  well we need  those r5 cores . 

 

OFC - veteran tenno are primarily doing t4s  it's the one stage left that still challenges us  and at the same time rewards us , and due to syndicate formerly having t4 keys , and suda  the most popular syndicate  selling  t4s keys well alot of vet tenno have over 200 T4S keys  so we have access to it .

 

and this lefts call stealth/bugged  nerf   to t4s  basically destroys my main reason to go there , as well as my hope to even try to keep up with the void trader

 

without the 5- r5 core the primed mod treadmill just goes way too fast  , to fast to even  run in place  

[Haukai]

Also we are swimming in core sinks by now. I haven't even considered maxing all (or even one) sentinel and / or archwing rank 10 mods yet since i'm far from done with "regular" stuff and i'm well over 1200 hours of playtime now. More primed mods are inbound every other week. How is someone with a full time job supposed to be able to keep up?

While having over 2.2k hours of gameplay in a year and a half, and being at college (a lot less hours than a full time job), I still ask myself that question : How the hell am I supposed to keep up ?

Credits aren't an issue for me, I farmed back when the Dark Sectors weren't INSANELY TAXED and you could actually make some money easily, but cores just keep disappearing at an insane rate, and I save them as much as possible, I rarely use them to fuse up stuff, I try to only use duplicates with matching polarities, but even that isn't anywhere near enough for these insane Legendary mods.

 

[Jukantos]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218412-time-to-remove-fusion-cores-from-survival-drop-tables/

WE ASKED FOR IT DIDN'T WE? xD

Archived or not, with this change, hey, maybe some people will start buying cores for platinum again (HOPEFULLY NOT BECAUSE THAT WOULD VALIDATE ****ING OVER VETERANS AS A MONETIZATION OPTION)

Edited February 7, 2015 by Jukantos

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

IDK ...DE's decisions are baffling . Removing/Nerfing the cores makes one think that the players are maxing mods at an insane rate.That is not the case.

 

Just have a look at the trading chat. The prices for maxed mods are trough the roof .

I've tried to buy maxed primed mods at a very high price ; 1000p and over.No one would sell.Because,they're simply not there.

 

I guess that DE saw the latest prices people pay for a max Heavy Caliber and such ,and they thought they can push it even higher.

 

I mean,DE  ,just how much more would you want from us? Just put a monthly subscription and be done with it .

 

These cheap tactics won't help anybody. 

Edited February 7, 2015 by Mr.Cristian

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Either give us better methods to earn cores or make the fusions costs less ludicrous. Making cores harder to get is not in any way helpful to making the game more enjoyable.

[Mudfam]

The amount of R5 cores needed to max rank 10 mods was already too high in my opinion. For those of us who haven't been playing for years ranking all those rank 10 mods represents an almost insurmountable barrier. Now it is literally impossible. Now If you consistently did ~4 hours of T4S a week (which btw if you have any kind of life outside of WF is a quite a lot) it would take 6 months to rank a single primed mod. If you can't make any progress then there's obviously no point in playing the game. How is this not obvious?

[Masakoto]

Kotsender Quasimir is a very smart man.

[VDeorsum]

it's very difficult be civil with this uncivil change but +1 OP

Edited February 7, 2015 by VDeorsum

[PRiMATES]

To be honest, the change goes in a completly wrong direction. They should have added more cores to other modes/mission, instead of taking them away from the only mission, where we could get them reliably...

 

How about introducing T10 (OVER 9000 lvl enemies :P ) or something where decent reward actually drop, like legendary cores or packs of 50 R5 Cores. Or some ridiculously hard to beat boss which isnt meant to be beaten by just any run of the mill "recruiting chat squad", but by a good team.

 

As a veteran of almost MR19 (just missed some event weapons) who already maxed the new weapons from the last update, i dont see any value in playing right now. There arent any good rewards in any kind of game mode...  T4S was one of the few instances (and i dont got 100+ keys) where i could play for 1-2 hours once or twice a week with friends and get some stuff that actually felt like a reward!

 

Right now, i dont really feel any point to play, besides the weekly mastery fodder, which gets old really quick...

Edited February 7, 2015 by PRiMATES

[HibikiGanaha]

+1 to OP even though I've never played a T4S before

 

 

T4 Survival Fusion Core payouts were only 'broken' by comparison to all other gametypes.

 

Given the huge increase in the number of 10 rank mods, Fusion Cores need to be obtainable in much larger quantities. Even ignoring Primed mods, we have Sanctuary, Transient Fortitude, Bite, Maul, Link Health, Link Shields, Link Armour, Hyperion Thrusters, System Reroute, Bleeding Edge, and Lasting Sting, of which, 5 are rare, meaning an additional 1500 rare Fusion Cores are needed for completion.

 

Nerfing T4S down to the level of other gametypes, so as to not force players to grind one mission is perfectly reasonable, but either cores need to be much more frequent (they are slightly as a byproduct of ability mods being removed), or the fusion mechanics need to be reworked. Perhaps something involving Forma to upgrade at the cost of making the mod untradable...?

 

Adding packs of 3x Orokin cells though, that is an extreme letdown.

You forgot quite a few mods like Blind Rage, Narrowminded, Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, the sentinel versions of those 3, Serration, Heavy Caliber, and so on.  I'm sure I'm missing a bunch too!

[Kthal]

You forgot quite a few mods like Blind Rage, Narrowminded, Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, the sentinel versions of those 3, Serration, Heavy Caliber, and so on.  I'm sure I'm missing a bunch too!

 

I was listing just the 'new' R10 mods, making a point about how the game was expanding in terms of costs. Prior to the mods I listed, it was barely balanced, but a line has been crossed at some point...