Balancing The Marelok

[Vanadium]

TL;DR: The Marelok needs to have some mechanics included to balance it with other secondaries to justify its over the top levels of damage. It should have a reload between shots mechanic, much higher recoil, and maybe a damage reduction (or buff the Grinlok over the Marelok) to reflect that it is a cut-down/carbine version of a full-sized rifle. 

 

So, going over the stats, we pretty much have a gun that does it all, better than everything else. Its only drawback is that small mag, which is thrown out by the Vaykor, making that pretty much the there's-not-a-single-thing-in-the-solar-system-I-can't-handle-gun.

 

It can crit, it can status, and its damage can bulldoze through damn near anything, nevermind that it does mostly impact. Just means you will never have to worry about shields. The firing speed is deceptively low, since it just means that you wont empty your mag too fast and your reticle will settle right back on a Heavy Gunner's head after the first shot (if they're not already dead; they probably are). Accuracy=10? What does that mean? Nothing. When ADS, I can still get headshots (or something close) on the largest tiles in the game (like that one Corpus bridge defense tile). Stat-wise, accuracy should be crap, but it's a lie.

 

In short, nothing but good. It puts out accurate shots, that hit like a train car, at a decent, controllable rate.

 

And I like the Marelok. I almost like it better than my Brakk (it's a struggle).

 

So how could the Marelok be balanced? I actually don't mind it's huge damage that much (a small reduction would be nice), but there has to be some trade-off somewhere for the enormous damage. I think the answer lies in the IRL Mare's Leg the gun is based off of.

 

Here's a concise video on the history of the Mare's Leg in the modern market and how it's fired.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI7nVdneBkw

 

With Lethal Torrent, you can shoot the Marelok so fast that it completely skips the cocking animation. This should not happen.

 

My idea is that the Marelok should function kind of like the Vectis, where you have a cocking animation between each shot. The speed of this action would be affected by Quickdraw. You still have 6 shots in the mag, but you have to cycle between each shot. Also, the gun should have a much higher recoil.

 

Also, I think the ADS grip for the Marelok is strange. When ADS, I think the Tenno should assume a rifle-like grip:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7-UhWhR0os

 

Obviously, when off-handing, the Tenno would still use the famous/balls-up-the-celing spin-cycling animation:

 

skip to 5m48s

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgphD_ZO_jI&t=5m48s

(Yes, I know the 1887 is a shotgun, not a pistol-carbine; same action, similar dimensions)

 

Obviously, this action should also extend to the Vaykor and the Grinlok (which is in serious need of a buff).

 

I think this will help balance the gun and give it some character that RoF mods take away from the gun.

 

P.S.

Please, buff the Sicarus Prime's magazine to 21. Thank you.

 

(The profanity filter won't let me spell c-o-c-k, as in, the action of cycling a manual firearm; understandable)

Edited February 8, 2015 by Vanadium

[ZxpferTH]

TLDR

 

NO

 

go buff sniper don't mess with secondary to the trash

Edited February 8, 2015 by VioletX

[NovusNova]

Better if you buff snipers to be actually usable than just nerf something just because it does better than the Vulkar, which by the way most things are better than. Vulkar is the weakest sniper as I remember, all the other snipers are better than it. 

 

Also most people these days use the synoid grammacor over the marelock and Vaykor marelock since its just better.

 

Only part I can really agree with is the "Please, buff the Sicarus Prime's magazine to 21".

[Rakosta_Kai]

TLDR

 

NO

 

go buff sniper don't mess with secondary to the trash

This ^

 

No disrespect to OP....

You are talking about balancing a weapon against a category of weapons that we know is UP and in line for buffs.

[-Hallow-]

TLDR

 

NO

 

go buff sniper don't mess with secondary to the trash

 

 

Better if you buff snipers to be actually usable than just nerf something just because it does better than the Vulkar, which by the way most things are better than. Vulkar is the weakest sniper as I remember, all the other snipers are better than it. 

 

Also most people these days use the synoid grammacor over the marelock and Vaykor marelock since its just better.

 

Only part I can really agree with is the "Please, buff the Sicarus Prime's magazine to 21".

Uh. Grinlok isnt a sniper guys.

[Simaka_Wolf]

yeah i would like to see someone fire a shotgun 1 handed like that and not break their wrist due to the recoil. GG

[NovusNova]

Uh. Grinlok isnt a sniper guys.

 

He edited out the stuff we are talking about in our posts after they were made.

[Vanadium]

He edited out the stuff we are talking about in our posts after they were made.

 

Yeah, because you guys were making weird parallels that I wasn't. Don't make try to make me sound dodgy.

Edited February 10, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Cleaning

[vaugahn]

While I might agree with some parts (forced cocking animation between shots, differing grips) of this, good luck trying to make the case for any nerf of any degree around here.

 

This community is one of the more irrationally nerf-phobic I've been in.

[MechaTails]

What a bunch of reasonable suggestions you've made, Van. Too bad this community is allergic to reason.

 

You try to give guns personality and all you get is "STFU EVERYGUN SHULD BE TEH SAME"

[Vanadium]

While I might agree with some parts (forced cocking animation between shots, differing grips) of this, good luck trying to make the case for any nerf of any degree around here.

 

This community is one of the more irrationally nerf-phobic I've been in.

 

What a bunch of reasonable suggestions you've made, Van. Too bad this community is allergic to reason.

 

You try to give guns personality and all you get is "STFU EVERYGUN SHULD BE TEH SAME"

 

OMG, thank you guys...I thought I was having a horrible hallucination where only trolls and grinders were logged into the forums...

 

Thought I was going nuts.

[NovusNova]

I can understand wanting to balance it, but the only reason for the nerf that seems to be presented is "its better than the Grinlock therefore nerf it".

 

Maybe instead we should look at buffing the Grinlock to a better place? 

 

See? This is pretty much trolling. I don't give a damn about the Grinlok, and as I said, these changes would extend to it (thus kill its DPS even more). It has nothing to do with "In relation to the Grinlok..."

 

It's in relation to every other secondary. Ok? Happy? You trolled me successfully and made me a little flustered. Good for you. Go troll someone else, I'm busy trying to get DEScott-senpai to notice me or whoever types these numbers into these weapons.

 

Good to know, always wanted someone to start throwing troll around just because someone keeps coming back to their thread and responding to what they say.

 

Also, I was referring to this "(or buff the Grinlok over the Marelok)", which lead to my question: "Maybe instead we should look at buffing the Grinlock to a better place? ", As in why don't we buff the Grinlock to be a viable rifle with sniper elements instead of just nerfing the marelock to make it not so good, most players have already migrated to the synoid grammacor since its better than pretty much all secondary weapons. Maybe we and DE should focus on bringing the OP weapons in line first by making more weapons viable at the higher levels instead of taking one of those weapons away.

 

Its a valid question, you talked about the Grinlock, you complain at people that they are not reading your post but when they do, you still complain and accuse them of trolling. 

 

Yes I admit when I made the post about snipers, I probably didn't totally get what you were talking about, but calling people trolls and grinders aren't going to win you many supporters.

Edited February 8, 2015 by NovusNova

[Vanadium]

I can understand wanting to balance it, but the only reason for the nerf that seems to be presented is "its better than the Grinlock therefore nerf it".

 

Maybe instead we should look at buffing the Grinlock to a better place? 

 

See? This is pretty much trolling. I don't give a damn about the Grinlok, and as I said, these changes would extend to it (thus kill its DPS even more). It has nothing to do with "In relation to the Grinlok..."

 

It's in relation to every other secondary. Ok? Happy? You trolled me successfully and made me a little flustered. Good for you. Go troll someone else, I'm busy trying to get DEScott-senpai to notice me or whoever types these numbers into these weapons.

[(PSN)jFresh215]

I do believe the grinlock received a buff, not to the main gun but it has a augment mod. it doesn't touch base damage but +200% crit chance isn't bad at all. Plus the sequence effect procs radiation and restores shields. 

[CaveCricket48]

yeah i would like to see someone fire a shotgun 1 handed like that and not break their wrist due to the recoil. GG

 

Brakk, Pyranna, Detron, Broncos

[(PSN)jFresh215]

Brakk, Pyranna, Detron, Broncos

i believe he was referring to the video provided. 

[CaveCricket48]

i believe he was referring to the video provided. 

 

In which case,

 

 

Looks painful but doable for regular humans. And we're Tenno.

[Vanadium]

I'm...amazed by these comments.

 

Where did I go wrong? I don't even know where people are getting these conclusions from what I said. I don't even know why people are talking about the Grinlok or any other gun.

[vaugahn]

The Grinlok/Marelok thing is a point of contention for many people.

The Marelok is supposed to be a sawn-off Grinlok that trades accuracy and range for increased damage, but in practice the Marelok is a better rifle than the Grinlok is.

[Rakosta_Kai]

With the revisions to your OP I can see where you are wanting the Marelok to go and it makes a measure of sense.

That said though I still view it as an issue best addressed by improving the Grinlok.

 

Adding tedium or punishing mechanics to the weapon after it's launched to explain it's damage is destructive.

 

It takes the weapon from a good general purpose weapon that takes a measure of skill to use and rewards that skill accordingly to a purely niche weapon for those players willing to put up with the drawbacks.

 

That's really not the province of any player and it definitely shouldn't be done after the weapon is introduced.

 

For my part, I'd rather see DE actually implement a weapon closer to the one you've shown like a cut down Sybarus.

 

Even in that case though I'd much rather DE develop new methods for how Secondaries are handled.

 

Examples would be:

 

Akimbo

Mesa has this now in her 4 but is forced to be stationary , enjoys massive damage and accuracy during it.

Other players should be able to enjoy similar gameplay without the extra damage, accuracy, and the stationary requirement.

Accuracy could be a derived average between the individual weapon totals.

 

1h melee and 1h secondary

Players would enjoy the ability to use melee blocking (at an increased stamina cost) and Pistol use (at a reduced accuracy rate) while having both weapon out at once.

 

1 secondary

Players enjoy increased accuracy and reload modifiers but have fewer options than they would with other systems.

 

 

Something like that would make ideas like yours sit easier because the players are given options.

[(PSN)XxDaKiDD420]

Help me understand this... What is the point of nerfing weapons in a PvE game?

When the enemies scale infinitely in endless missions?

[letir]

Help me understand this... What is the point of nerfing weapons in a PvE game?

When the enemies scale infinitely in endless missions?

The point is... difficulty.

 

Yeah, it is mostly artfical difficulty, but this is the only sort of challenge in Warframe right now.

[Vanadium]

Help me understand this... What is the point of nerfing weapons in a PvE game?

When the enemies scale infinitely in endless missions?

Well, what's wrong with a little balance in a PvE game?

Also, it kind of sounds like you play nothing but endless game modes. Just humor me and assume the meta is level 40-45 enemies.

[BerelHawdos]

Balancing the marelok while we have synoid gammacor seems silly.

[Setsuna_Major]

People, in my experience, have an extraordinary ability to adapt to the circumstances they're given.

 

What's the point of these nerfs? Those who enjoy using the Marelok will simply keep using it. Why would they care about a slower fire rate and more recoil? All they'd have to do is minutely compensate, and at most be irked that they aren't killing as quickly as they normally would. They're not going to be sacrificing a damage mod for Quickdraw, unless the spin animation is unbearably slow.

 

Those who simply use it for the damage? Well, they're off to get a Synoid Gammacor. In fact, they're probably already eyeing the SG.