Does Increasing Enemy Levels Make It Endgame ? (Devstream 47)

[Stormandreas]

The raid looked terrible. looks like you HAVE to have 8 people for it, meaning it'll be impossible to solo, or even do with a small team, and it's just a 2 missions strung together.... that's not what a raid is. A raid is when a large group of players attacks a large boss, or boss/type team of enemies, not going around solving a stupidly easy puzzle, then doing a standard missiontype.

[Angus_JTV]

Nobody liked the nullifiers so there is the feedback from increasing difficulty by mechanics.

True story, most don'like but i liked, They makes T4 for exemple more challenging. At least there's something to look at with care. 

[Feallike]

The raid looked terrible. looks like you HAVE to have 8 people for it, meaning it'll be impossible to solo, or even do with a small team, and it's just a 2 missions strung together.... that's not what a raid is. A raid is when a large group of players attacks a large boss, or boss/type team of enemies, not going around solving a stupidly easy puzzle, then doing a standard missiontype.

 

1. You don't have to have 8 players. (which proves you didn't watch the stream)

 

2. Its 3 missions 

 

3. They are randomly selected mission types (most likely this is the case)

 

4. The DE confirmed on making the puzzels harder. 

 

5. Work in progress. -.-

 

6. They are making something unique.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Feallike

[Ishki88]

Increasing enemy levels is not even half of the pie.

 

 

Keep increased enemy levels, but it's more to it than that in regards to end-game.  But enemy levels HAS to play a part. 

 

Level 1 and Level 30 should not be the same difficulty wise.   Even in sonic the enemies got alil harder.....and Mario...even if they were 1-2 hit kills

[SoulDust]

I don't feel like reading anything before this post so excuse me um,,,,,,

Most of my half assed weapons and frames run "end game" without any problem at all. End game right now is technically 30-40? I believe that level increased by survival and defense doesn't count. Therefore our current end game really isn't any problem at all. The only thing that most vets get a thrill of is attempting to go high into def/surv/inter because end game is indeed no real end game. Even level 80 enemies can be one shot so yeah the current end game is straight boring. 

 

One thing destiny has that I like is the "Very hard" mission settings and what not, I'd like a feature where I can get a challenge without having to go hours on in into a survival or defense mission just to go "oh let me actually pay attention now" I understand warframe technically is still in development but really there needs to be harder things without having to waste half a day in three types of missions.

[Feallike]

I don't feel like reading anything before this post so excuse me um,,,,,,

Most of my half assed weapons and frames run "end game" without any problem at all. End game right now is technically 30-40? I believe that level increased by survival and defense doesn't count. Therefore our current end game really isn't any problem at all. The only thing that most vets get a thrill of is attempting to go high into def/surv/inter because end game is indeed no real end game. Even level 80 enemies can be one shot so yeah the current end game is straight boring. 

 

One thing destiny has that I like is the "Very hard" mission settings and what not, I'd like a feature where I can get a challenge without having to go hours on in into a survival or defense mission just to go "oh let me actually pay attention now" I understand warframe technically is still in development but really there needs to be harder things without having to waste half a day in three types of missions.

 

You should have read fiiirrrsssttt!!!

 

Level 80 enemies are needed to make it harder than a void mission so ya its required. Puzzels are going to be very hard, they are makign the ones DERebecca did much harder, people are saying the mission types in the raid are going to be randomly selected, and eventually Archwing is going to be implemented in the raid. :D

[MrKage]

So basicly you can do survival for 3 hours where enemies are 200+ does that become Raid aswell? Do you get legendary gear from it ? No this way off thinking is bad for the game to be honest. I rather have challenging enemies. The reason I want that is that it makes the game more fun to play. The only boss I can think off that has challenging mechanics are the hyena pack they are mobile have great teamwork and can be diffucult if you solo it. And thats why I like them the most and consider them a boss.

I want bosses dat arent just u stand there and shoot until it dies, but raids are what i said high level enemies dat need good gear to kill them, most of the time awesome bosses dat drops even better gear dat will drop only in dat raid. staying 3+ hours in suvival dont make it a raid , can make u crazy but its not a raid its just a kill house, but raids are high level mobs. sometimes the room its a boss itself, bosses arent bullet sponges, but people crying because of level 80+ mobs ,those are mobs to be expected in a raid so stop it, not in a infinite amount like in warframe, and these mobs are going to be in ur way to the boss,but bosses in raids are another beast, u need to think to defeat them not just shoot them, but of course people will find a way to kill everything in seconds including the boss because warframes are op

[NinjaSnipe11]

x4 Corrosive Projection + x4 Energy Siphon.

 

 

Oh look, i just solved raids.

Hahaha I laughed harder than I should have.

[Velmarshal]

It's just a lazy way to dish out "endgame" content. Kick up the numbers and players should be happy.

Unless there is some really good loot like powerful weapons or mods, this mode is just going to die out in a couple of weeks.

 

Though spy missions are a step in a good direction, I give them that. xD

[TeaBegging]

Increasing enemy levels is not even half of the pie.

 

 

Keep increased enemy levels, but it's more to it than that in regards to end-game.  But enemy levels HAS to play a part. 

 

Level 1 and Level 30 should not be the same difficulty wise.   Even in sonic the enemies got alil harder.....and Mario...even if they were 1-2 hit kills

Yes enemy level does has a part in this. And yes sonic and mario did get their difficulty increased but you have to keep in mind that a majority in the diffuculty came by the amount off enemies and teamwork they had. I'm not a fan off seeing 8 boltor primes with 8 synoid gammacor being used in every raid mission. Neither should you because I rather have difficult enemies than just a higher enemy cap based enemies. 

[Ishki88]

Yes enemy level does has a part in this. And yes sonic and mario did get their difficulty increased but you have to keep in mind that a majority in the diffuculty came by the amount off enemies and teamwork they had. I'm not a fan off seeing 8 boltor primes with 8 synoid gammacor being used in every raid mission. Neither should you because I rather have difficult enemies than just a higher enemy cap based enemies. 

I see ya point.

 

Would you be a fan if one or two of the enemies in Raids were resistant to darts/laser weapons?  That would off set DE from nerfing our good weapons.  

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

*SIGH* Just put on 4 CPs and Deal with it.

[TeaBegging]

I want bosses dat arent just u stand there and shoot until it dies, but raids are what i said high level enemies dat need good gear to kill them, most of the time awesome bosses dat drops even better gear dat will drop only in dat raid. staying 3+ hours in suvival dont make it a raid , can make u crazy but its not a raid its just a kill house, but raids are high level mobs. sometimes the room its a boss itself, bosses arent bullet sponges, but people crying because of level 80+ mobs ,those are mobs to be expected in a raid so stop it, not in a infinite amount like in warframe, and these mobs are going to be in ur way to the boss,but bosses in raids are another beast, u need to think to defeat them not just shoot them, but of course people will find a way to kill everything in seconds including the boss because warframes are op

 

Did you try the hyena pack solo? You don't stand still and wait there untill it dies. They constantly move they slow you down they work together making it harder for you to keep up with them. But then agian certain warframes are overpowered and so are weapons having them in a 8 man group will make these 80+ enemies mean nothing. But if we get diffucult enemies or raid specific bosses that aren't affected by certain overpowered abilities that weakens them to much to make it to easy then that would be another story. 

[letir]

I see ya point.

 

Would you be a fan if one or two of the enemies in Raids were resistant to darts/laser weapons?  That would off set DE from nerfing our good weapons.  

Are you really serious?

[RoboDoge]

I see ya point.

 

Would you be a fan if one or two of the enemies in Raids were resistant to darts/laser weapons?  That would off set DE from nerfing our good weapons.  

Its not about making mobs immune to damage or specific ammo type, its about making whole mode challenging in interesting way. Whats the point of making Raids if we can make workaround with frames that are used as workarounds for current content?

 

 

Raid should be something that forces us to adapt no matter the frame, not something that requires same old "exploit" setups. If Raid mechanics can be countered with few frames, whats the point in having 20+ frames in game?

 

 

DE needs to make Raids so every frame can have role in there.

[TeaBegging]

I see ya point.

 

Would you be a fan if one or two of the enemies in Raids were resistant to darts/laser weapons?  That would off set DE from nerfing our good weapons.  

No, Not ressistant. But no nerfing is needed either. If these so called raid enemies/bosses, Could work agianst that traveltime off the bolts and the range off the synoid gammacor. That would make the raids interesting then to see the average overused weapon there and meaning that you should have a diffrent way off vision to kill these enemies or bosses. 

[Ishki88]

No, Not ressistant. But no nerfing is needed either. If these so called raid enemies/bosses, Could work agianst that traveltime off the bolts and the range off the synoid gammacor. That would make the raids interesting then to see the average overused weapon there and meaning that you should have a diffrent way off vision to kill these enemies or bosses. 

I imagined an enemy that could quickly dodge darts and lasers.  A enemy that knows not to get in the radius of our laser weapons.  A enemy that is faster than our dart travel.   My mind...creates happiness....

 

Now if DE could step up their AI this could work wonderfully...it's already kind of in the game..sometimes runners will roll left or right when you aim at them...(which needs to be buffed because their roll is still slow as hell...but that's another topic)

 

+1

[Ishki88]

Are you really serious?

You haven't fought the Grineer with the Amphis have you?  Don't come at me like I'm pulling orokin cells out my butt.

Its not about making mobs immune to damage or specific ammo type, its about making whole mode challenging in interesting way. Whats the point of making Raids if we can make workaround with frames that are used as workarounds for current content?

 

 

Raid should be something that forces us to adapt no matter the frame, not something that requires same old "exploit" setups. If Raid mechanics can be countered with few frames, whats the point in having 20+ frames in game?

 

 

DE needs to make Raids so every frame can have role in there.

I think that could be said with the entire game in general.   But yeah...

 

Edit: Sorry for double post, I'm not used to this old school way of multi-quoting.  This forum needs an update XD

Edited February 21, 2015 by Ishki88

[TeaBegging]

I imagined an enemy that could quickly dodge darts and lasers.  A enemy that knows not to get in the radius of our laser weapons.  A enemy that is faster than our dart travel.   My mind...creates happiness....

 

Now if DE could step up their AI this could work wonderfully...it's already kind of in the game..sometimes runners will roll left or right when you aim at them...(which needs to be buffed because their roll is still slow as hell...but that's another topic)

 

+1

Most AI are so obvios they aren't suprising the players. All they do is run towards you to get killed. This is what I don't want to see in the raids or in the game general. If enemies had that suprise counter attacks the game would take a diffrent direction then just giving it a higher level cap. Enemies doing wall runs, Jumping etc, Crawling, Teleporting, Diffrent ways to make it challenging. But the final release off the update isn't here yet so we have to wait on that part. I really hope that it isn't just increased enemy levels because I can see people being let down by this. 

[Kuestenjung]

I get a feeling that this update is been rushed to keep the veterans happy.

 

Lol, what?

 

This update is rushed, yeah right.

 

 

DE did always take that way when increasing difficulty. Its easier ( lazier ) to pump up enemy levels than create new mechanics.

 

If DE implements new mechanics via new enemies, see the Nullifier or all the latest infested, almost everyone is crying because they are to hard.

 

Most of the people want it this way and not different.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Kuestenjung

[RoboDoge]

Most AI are so obvios they aren't suprising the players. All they do is run towards you to get killed. This is what I don't want to see in the raids or in the game general. If enemies had that suprise counter attacks the game would take a diffrent direction then just giving it a higher level cap. Enemies doing wall runs, Jumping etc, Crawling, Teleporting, Diffrent ways to make it challenging. But the final release off the update isn't here yet so we have to wait on that part. I really hope that it isn't just increased enemy levels because I can see people being let down by this. 

Fixing AI isnt the issue here, basic game mechanics are. As long as we can clean whole rooms of mobs with one press of the button, AI doesnt matter. Smart or stupid mob, they will die in the same way anyway.

 

 

What game needs is something that can challenge those "press42win" mechanics, something that makes even the top tier frames users think about their tactics. Something that gives every team setup similar challenge, and where one frame or two specific frames dont make big difference.

Edited February 21, 2015 by RoboDoge

[Rorgal_Sina]

Warframe difficulty needs working on before Raids are implemented.

 

Cus we'll really like proper enemies instead of fodder fodder fodder and stronger fodder.

 

And nope, I don't mean Nullifiers. Like someone that will charge at you. If he hits you, then S#&$ gets real. If he misses, then he's screwed.

 

Oh yeah, wonder how the Grineer Manic would be like.

 

Edit: Remember the Juggernaut? I think DE said they were resistant to most abilities.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Rorgal_Sina

[Ishki88]

Most AI are so obvios they aren't suprising the players. All they do is run towards you to get killed. This is what I don't want to see in the raids or in the game general. If enemies had that suprise counter attacks the game would take a diffrent direction then just giving it a higher level cap. Enemies doing wall runs, Jumping etc, Crawling, Teleporting, Diffrent ways to make it challenging. But the final release off the update isn't here yet so we have to wait on that part. I really hope that it isn't just increased enemy levels because I can see people being let down by this. 

 

Parkour 2.0

A.I. 2.0

 

Skooooooon

 

Ironically I believe most of us once a upon a time wanted more complex enemies.  Enemies that run against the walls or has some type of parkour element added to them.  Maybe even really synergistic teamwork...

 

The irony is we got those enemies........But they are a boss.........on 1 node..........fun...maybe the new Grineer will do a front flip into the people's elbow 

and the new corpus will shovel me up and then proceed to jump on my back or something

[TeaBegging]

Lol, what?

 

This update is rushed, yeah right.

Are you saying it is not? Did you watch the stream ? They are completly adding a new game mechanic in like 1/2 months. Something that is been hyped to. Something so big been released in a short time is considered rushed in my eyes. I'd rather give them more time to work upon and make it perfect then just a update that lets down players. 

 

[Feallike]

Ok... I think the real problem here is that people are to focused on Level 80 enemies! DE doesn't listen we don't want bullet sponges we want hard content herp derp.

 

Everyone completed ignored the fact that their are puzzles, that it requires teamwork. Level 80 enemies are the least important part of the raids. Yet everyone is focused on that aspect and ignoring everything else.

 

Other than the fact its Work in progress, what they have shown is a difficulty that requires you to protect yourself while staying stationary. This is suppose to be a easy puzzle!

 

What will happen when the DE buffs it to be much harder?!?! Saying that this is just going to be just like Void is so narrow minded that it makes you look like your full of blind rage. (ha puns)

 

Random mission types will destroy the whole -need X frame or GTFO- mindset since if you bring a Nova MP spammer to a spy mission your going to fail. Wardens are alerted as soon as the power hits them. 

 

Then theirs Archwing which forces you to completely rework your strategy. Remember how HARD Archwing Interseption was? What happens when you take away level 30 enemeis in archwing and put level 80? Other than cool gimmicks and puzzels isn't that terrifying? 

Edited February 21, 2015 by Feallike