Rhino And Rhino Prime Buffs/changes?

[Morgax]

Iron skin needs a change in scaling (preferably of enemy level), frankly i'm thinking about making it party wide buff would make it more interesting.

 

We get tanky support, i would be fine with that. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Morgax

[Gelkor]

I don't  really trust him for Nightmares now... Too much stuff sneaks it's way in under IS nowadays.

I've actually been killed with IS on from procs... Something you shouldn't be getting with IS on.

 

The Detron Crewman has gotten me a couple of time with IS above 60%... Only to find myself as an IS clad corpse laid out.

 

I think that's one of the reasons I've really fallen in love with Valkyr as my tanky/melee frame.  So much damage these days ignores shields and Iron Skin, so what's the point of them?  Valkyr's synergy with her stats and abilities and the way damage is dealt these days just makes her perfect.

[victor_victory]

The problem with Rhino is everyone do his job better than he does.

You want a tank, use Valkyr.

You want a AOE CC. Use Nyx, irritated loki etc.

You want damage buff. Use Bansheen, Eclipse Mirage or even Mesa.

It makes sense because Rhino is design to be a starter frame. But the current Rhino doesn't really look like a manly buffed tank, which is what he suppose to be.

[spaceninjaaaa]

It makes sense because Rhino is design to be a starter frame.

That's not true at all, if anything, it's the opposite. It's the only warframe locked behind a mastery requirement.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Hitmonho

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[TheOniStixx]

Truthfully, I would like it if they reworked his first two abilities so that:

 

A) Rhino Charge wasn't a Slash Dash clone

 

and

 

B) Iron Skin was more balanced in scaling so that early game it isn't OP but late game it isn't tissue paper, which can be difficult

 

I also personally think Iron Skins augment is kinda pointless.

[KingTaro]

Rhino is one of the well balanced frames, but like many frames out there, he has a skill or two that don't scale too well.

 

I don't use Rhino Charge. It's fun to play around with the

once in a while, but that's about it for me.

Iron Skin does well up untill lvl 90-100 depending on your playstyle and the faction you're fighting. But I'd guess most people don't rely on it past lvl 60.

Roar and Stomp are great.

 

What I'd suggest for Iron Skin is make it something like the current Snow Globe. So 5 seconds of invincibility during which the Iron Skin aggros all the enemies and absorbs the incoming damage. And after those 5 seconds, the absorbed damage is added to the Iron Skins HP pool. Also, the frames armor value is applied to the Iron Skin.

To balance it for the low levels, reduce the initial HP pool of Iron Skin to around 500.

 

As for Rhino Charge, I'd increase its damage radius during the charge to 5m-8m. Meaning the enemies 5m around Rhino while he's charging will be knocked down. Or even "better", they'll be blasted away while Rhino is charging through them.

[TheOniStixx]

What I'd suggest for Iron Skin is make it something like the current Snow Globe. So 5 seconds of invincibility during which the Iron Skin aggros all the enemies and absorbs the incoming damage. And after those 5 seconds, the absorbed damage is added to the Iron Skins HP pool. Also, the frames armor value is applied to the Iron Skin.

To balance it for the low levels, reduce the initial HP pool of Iron Skin to around 500.

 

I really, REALLY dislike this idea for Iron Skin. First you have to stand still in a big group of enemies to let you get the max health for Iron Skin, and to do that you have to wait to use it until a large number of people are shooting at you, which in high level play, usually orokin void missions on a non-event mission, means Nullifiers, which will remove it before it is of any use. Factor in the risk of dying before getting into the group due to many, many enemies shooting at you, you got a very bad design for Iron Skin. There is also the fact that you are moving most of the time in Warframe, enemies are going to miss and you'll just end up with a weaker Iron Skin.

 

This system works for Snow Globe because it is a massive bubble that they try to shoot through to get to either you or the target you are protecting, With a Warframe, you are a relatively small target that they have trouble hitting, so you won't get much damage in the time alloted for the damage absorption.

 

Iron Skin needs a rework, but this isn't it.

[Tykune]

Well, hopefully the devs are watching this thread so they can think of some ways to help improve his late game and balance him out nicely. I really love prime rhino, and want to see him become fully capable as any other warframe can at that stage of content.

[Vargras]

I've also heard that his damage falls off late game as well

Rhino's not really meant for damage. He shines as a CC/support tank -- Charge has a knockdown component, Iron Skin keeps him healthy and allows him to revive allies in the thick of it, Roar buffs himself and his buddies to do more damage, and Stomp has always been a phenomenal crowd control skill.

 

I don't use Rhino Charge. It's fun to play around with the

once in a while, but that's about it for me.

Charge is actually really good with the Ironclad Charge augment. I've topped out at over +900% armor, and the buff lasts roughly 10 seconds or so.

 

It makes him incredibly durable.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Vargras

[RexRgisIocus]

Why doesn't anyone consider the fact that IS having damage reduction by a % would be a bit broken since IS also prevents KD, staggers and procs?

 

Protecting against damage isn't the only thing it does. Link is the only other DR ability that protects against procs and KD's as well and it costs 75 energy and is a timed ability while IS costs 50 and is unlimited until broken.

[spaceninjaaaa]

Why doesn't anyone consider the fact that IS having damage reduction by a % would be a bit broken since IS also prevents KD, staggers and procs?

 

Protecting against damage isn't the only thing it does. Link is the only other DR ability that protects against procs and KD's as well and it costs 75 energy and is a timed ability while IS costs 50 and is unlimited until broken.

The only times I get knocked down are from corrupt machine gunners, corpus laser doors, or the shield guys from the grineer, and I can only remember a handful of times iron skin saved me

 

the issue is this effect goes away far too quickly in high levels since it's getting shot through like tissue paper

[RexRgisIocus]

The only times I get knocked down are from corrupt machine gunners, corpus laser doors, or the shield guys from the grineer, and I can only remember a handful of times iron skin saved me

 

the issue is this effect goes away far too quickly in high levels since it's getting shot through like tissue paper

 

It still has those advantages even if you don't find them useful or don't actually need them. Unless you would prefer a timed ability with decent but not high DR like Link, having immunity to KD's, staggers and procs is a pretty big advantage in an unlimited ability.

 

Shatter Shield: Caps at 95% but only protects against projectiles and hitscan ammo. Melee and AoE's can still harm you. No protection vs KD's, stagger or procs. Costs 75.

 

Turbulence: Deflects pretty much any non hitscan projectiles and reduces accuracy vs hitscan. Does nothing vs melee or KD's, staggers or procs. Costs 75.

 

Eclipse: Caps at 95% DR and works against any kind of incoming damage. Reduces accuracy. Doesn't protect against KD's, staggers or procs. Only works in shadows if the game feels like registering any. Duration can be refreshed. Costs 25.

 

Link: 75% DR against everything. Protects against KD's and procs only if linked with at least one enemy. Can only be activated in the ground. Costs 75.

 

Iron Skin: 1200 ferrite armor. Immunity vs KD's, staggers and procs. Cant block. Costs 50.

 

 

 

[xca0]

IMO, iron skin should scale with the health and armour of Rhino, just like how Snowglobes HP scales somewhat with Frost's armour.

[TheBrsrkr]

I tried to address the rebalancing of Rhino in another thread, take a read if you think you have the time, it's rather wall of texty

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/410642-hopefully-the-last-thread-about-rhino-and-his-abilities/#entry4529318

[as3mbus]

hmm the only problem with rhino is his iron skin that cant keep up with higher rank of enemies.
but still if u play it properly i think he is still tank enough,fun and easy to play.

well his charge is alrdy looks like the other frame skill, slash dash, tailwind, tidal surge, etc.

his iron skin is not completely flawless with it own limit. but . . .
it's flaw r filled with high armor, and high shield that defend him for a moment when the skin run off. and he doesnt hav to consider about duration to tank unlike the other frame. so do you like all frame hav same mechanics for tanking ? it'll be a waste to make other tank frame instead if you want all tank frame hav same mechanic.

his roar is great support to entire team also with his new augment that weaken enemy also considered as making rhino more tanky

his stomp delay enemies long enough to let team recover from enemy shots

my opinion to make rhino more formidable is make iron skin regenerate like shield(still able to break & recasted). and he alrdy hav the tank skill everyone admire.

[Tykune]

Well technically, he is advertised as a warframe with both offensive and defensive capabilities.. so he should have some solid offense as well.

[Vargras]

Rhino is my favorite frame! Give him an Iron skin boost! He needs one desperately.

 

Nowadays it's just more cosmetic than functional.

 

Just Sayian.

Immunity to knockdown and procs is just cosmetic?

 

Okay.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Immunity to knockdown and procs is just cosmetic?

 

Okay.

If only it still had it....

 

Procs are getting through while it's still active now... Started happening around the same time Tar Moas got released.

 

First it was just Tars being able to slow, now the only thing I'm not getting is slash/puncture proc'd they just eat up the IS.

 

I'd have to check to be certain of the percent.... But Scorp, Ancient grab attempts are costing 5-10% (it's one of the 2) of the shield.

Likewise the Moa stomps.

 

So even the stuff it does still stop is stopped at a high cost.

[Fragkos]

buff iron skin !!!

[Djego27]

Has there been any word on if Rhino and Rhino Prime may get buffed or changed? I want to play him in tactical alerts and late game content, but people refuse to take my rhino prime along for being rhino prime... which I find to be completely unfair.

 

Then just host a game for the TE with your rino prime. Nobody wants a frost for the event as well, however I hosted 3 successful escalation runs with my frost all but one on first try successful(we had to wipe out one run because the loki disconnected in the 3. wave), not because I don't have a lot of other frames for it, but because how effective and easy it is with a frost. A rino or two with overextended and stretch could probably lock down the hole map as well while keeping rino stomp up and clear towers with the knock back of iron shrapnel very easy(we used loki for that).

 

As for late game, lack of survivability is not the reason why people don't want a rino(you can double iron skin and this wouldn't change). The reason is that most people that want to play a rino there don't build the frame around or even use roar and stomp effective, what makes the slot wasted compared to another DD, support or CC frame. I did a 50 waves T2 def 2 days ago with my frost, a loki, nova and a roar rino as pug from recruitment without any issues. That is not bad at all, actually very good given that we did not set up any weapon, frame or aura(we only had 2x CP) before the run with completely random people.

[Holeypaladin]

Well it seems more people are becoming aware of how ridiculously weak iron skin is compared to other damage reduction skills... but there's also a lot of hate regarding Rhino in general, and he feels like an abandoned frame scrapped or just placed into noob-tier tank.

[KingTaro]

I really, REALLY dislike this idea for Iron Skin. First you have to stand still in a big group of enemies to let you get the max health for Iron Skin, and to do that you have to wait to use it until a large number of people are shooting at you, which in high level play, usually orokin void missions on a non-event mission, means Nullifiers, which will remove it before it is of any use. Factor in the risk of dying before getting into the group due to many, many enemies shooting at you, you got a very bad design for Iron Skin. There is also the fact that you are moving most of the time in Warframe, enemies are going to miss and you'll just end up with a weaker Iron Skin.

 

This system works for Snow Globe because it is a massive bubble that they try to shoot through to get to either you or the target you are protecting, With a Warframe, you are a relatively small target that they have trouble hitting, so you won't get much damage in the time alloted for the damage absorption.

 

Iron Skin needs a rework, but this isn't it.

 

You say that you'd need to stand still, but that's not true, because, as mentioned above, the skill will aggro all the enemies during the 5 sec invincibility. Against high level enemies, just a few bullets will be enough to outperform the current Iron Skin. But it's not just light unit bullets, you'll have grenades, rockets, sniper-bullets flying your way.

Besides, as you've mentioned yourself, you'll be overrun by a lot of enemies in endless missions once you reach the point where you can no longer spawn-kill them. Meaning that taking cover for 1 sec to activate the skill and then rushing directly into the crowd will provide you with an Iron Skin that is exponentially more powerfull than the current one.

Knowing that the current Iron Skin can handle lvl 100 enemies (depending on your playstyle), I can imagine the possibilities with one that scales up like the Snow Globe. Not to mention that that has Rhino's armor value applied to it.

 

Nullifiers you say? When you cast the skill, you'll have 5 sec of invincibility. Enough time to get rid of the bubble without having to worry about dodging his sniper. Once the bubble is down, you'll be rushing at the nullifier with a massive Iron Skin HP pool.

 

PS: I also mentioned that the Iron Skin could take the Rhino's armor into account.

There was once a bug a few months ago, where the armor got applied to Iron Skin. It was insane.

When I did a test run against lvl 30-40 Corpus units, I could simply walk through the mission, taking in all the incoming damage, feeling like a Rambo. That's why I suggested to lower it to 500 if the Armor value gets applied.

 

I'd never want Rhino, my favourite frame, to receive "worthless" buffs/changes.

So I'm not just posting whatever is floating my mind, if that's what you believe I'm doing.

 

As I've been running pretty much only Rhino for over 2 years now, I'm pretty confident about that suggestion.

Rhino + Rhino Prime: 75% of total playtime in over 2 years.

[Muinocriz]

I soloed the tactical alert on my rhino, on the first try, to get the stance mod. I then tried the 100-150 one time with a pug. We probably would have won, but one of our members quit at wave 2. Three of us held out for a good while. Almost beat it too, but both my other team members kept getting downed, and I had to choose between capturing nodes or saving my team mates. Repeated saves lead to them taking over all the nodes and eventually we lost. I never got downed.

 

I imagine if I joined another pug I'd have that sigil, but considering sigils do nothing and I still have mods to farm for, I opted for farming for mods. Because they actually improve my frames.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, solo them if no one wants to group with you or learn to use a frame that's more likable. Frames aren't a world of warcraft character that you're stuck with. They're just tools. Just like the weapons one brings or the mods one chooses to bring. When it comes to defense missions I normally use frost if solo. Sometimes I use rhino for solo defense missions. When I do, I bring tons of large energy cans and just spam 4 while rolling my face on the keyboard to win.

 

It sucks when people are like that towards a certain frame, but it's best you don't associate with people like that. Their "holier than thou" mentality is contagious and you would eventually become like them.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Muinocriz