Dislike The Eight Player Raids

[MurakumoVance]

     So I got a taste of the new 8 player raid crap just earlier, and needless to say I am EXTREMELY angry. DE not only dropped the ball on this one, but they made it down right ridiculous and a mess to even play.  If you ever manage to get some type of rhythm going, believe me, you will be shutdown in NO time.  It's not even that the mission itself is hard, its that there is no cooperation because there is too much to do and nobody knows where to go or what they should be doing. 

 Before I continue on with the rant, I will explain my experience and tell you why this needs COMPLETELY removed from the game. Right out the gate, the nostalgia is REAL. You've got 8 tenno dropping down and you're instantly met by level 72 enemies.  No biggie right?  Well then you get to this double terminal place where people hack and a battery is dropped.  The first time we played this, nobody knew what to do with this battery. We also didn't know that it drained your energy as you carried it and 5 seconds after its dropped because you have ran out of energy it explodes.  You've gotta get it through these doors that are triggered by 2 people standing on a plate at a time. Once through you have to stand on 2 more plates. ALL WHILE  the carrier of the battery prays to god his energy will hold out long enough to get to the injectors on the other side of the door.  Once you make it to the injectors,  SURPRISE SURPRISE,  there's 4 additional terminals to hack and you have to wait for the bomb to arm itself before you can even think about hacking because the injector is only vulnerable for a limited time after you hack.   How the Hell are new players supposed to know this.  In a fast paced frantic shooter like this, there shouldn't be any puzzle solving.

But wait it gets better.  You finally complete the thing and let out a sigh of relief...  Ok that was tough,  not cause the enemies were high level and CONSTANTLY attacking you all while you completed those stupid objectives, but it was just genuinely hard to get EIGHT PEOPLE on the same page. So it says mission complete, but its a complete lie!  It loads you into a Ceres tile set now where you have to hack certain terminals and look up at a screen displaying a symbol.  Somebody has to stand on the pressure plate with the matching symbol. You do this continuously until everyone is standing on plates.  My team and I couldn't even get past this part due to the fact that Grineer were CONSTANTLY downing us knocking us off our plates. The bombards and even worse, the damn scorpions yanking you off! If even 1 person goes down it resets the ENTIRE THING.  The level of frustration was so high we all began cursing each other.  Up until now,  I honestly felt like Warframe wasn't one of those games that people could get mad at each other in.  However tonight I've been rubbed the wrong way by MANY players.  So many people who are just as lost and confused as I was my first play through.   You want to desperately blame somebody but the only person you can blame is DE.  Shame on DE for putting PUZZLE SOLVING in a fast paced frantic shooter.    

 I surely hope this gets fixed or better yet just thrown out completely because its a BAD IDEA. Anyone who has played this or will play it will know exactly how I feel now. You WILL rage, you WILL die, and you WILL hate your co-op partners. All this trouble and for what?  Arcane benefits on your helmets or syandanas? If you ask me, that's not worth it.  Now I would've been more interested in seeing an 8 player defense where there's maybe 2 points to defend sort of like an interception where the enemies start out high leveled.  Maybe have a Survival where you're collecting resources prior to the defense that way if its a 3 part mission it somewhat makes sense and people know what to do immediately.  The confusion here is just too much.  I've said it before and I'll say it again. The enemies aren't even the problem. They're not hard.  It's these stupid crap objectives that just require too much work.  DE needs to understand that this isn't a World of Warcraft game, and I personally didn't start playing Warframe to have that type of experience.  I play shooters because I hate solving puzzles and that's exactly what this is.  And omg if you guys don't have TeamSpeak Skype or you're neglecting the Voice chat...... GOOD LUCK!  With all the choas going on, I couldn't find the time to even read the chat let alone protect my team-mates and myself. 

In closing, this SHOULD have been an easy to do objective but hard enemies to provide seasoned veterans a challenge. It SHOULDN'T have been impossible which is pretty much what it is. If it were a 3 tiered mission with survival leading up to defense and finally a boss battle.  I'd play that for 5 hours.  However, that's just me....  Some people out there have jobs and a busy lifestyle. Kids to take care of. They can't be expected to sit there and figure that mess out.  If 2 people go afk  it causes this HUGE mess that nobody can deal with.  No amount of power combinations can save you.  We had a Limbo, a Vauban, a Hydroid, Rhino, Trinity, Valkyr, Loki, and Ash but all of our time and efforts were completely wasted and I'm left so angry.  Update 16 is a disappointment entirely.  I'm sick of seeing these updates come out and them being less than advertised. The last time I REALLY loved a major update was melee 2.0  The syndicates were nice, but now they've just gone too far.  It's all complicated gibberish you won't really understand. The new Cephalon explains it somewhat decently but while he's trying to talk fancy you'll just be like O_o  and the conclaive offerings aren't even worth it given the trouble you'll go through trying to aim at players who are moving ENTIRELY TOO FREAKIN QUICK!!!  They need to slow it down a lot. Especially the carriers making off with your goal.  There's NO team cooperation what so ever. Update 16 is just a huge clusterjunk of garbage.  The new Ogris model is a little better than the last, and the new weapons are surely nice, but arguably the only thing GREAT about u16 was Chroma.  He is VERY interesting. It's such a shame he had to come during the worst update to date. 

Please DE, I STRONGLY advise you to just throw it the raids out entirely until a proper raid that's EASY TO COMPREHEND falls in its place, because this is a mess. People are angry and confused and I've never wanted to quit Warframe this bad. I've never wanted to quit Warframe at all in-fact. I understood that there were going to be some disappointments along the way, but this is way beyond a disappointment.  This feels more like DE has a vendetta against us the players. The raids are so painful to play its like DE wants to anger us. Do we owe you money?  Let me know what you guys thought about your experiences in the comments below.  Hopefully some ignorant fool isn't going to come along and say that these raids are good when they're clearly crap. 

[DBugII]

Out of respect for those involved in this particular raid (including you), any swearing I did against people wasn't mean to insult them as much as it was expressing my frustration and I'm sure everyone in that raid (especially those who stuck it out until I gave in) are maybe more sour than I am about it.

 

There does need to be an explanation of the objectives provided to the players. The lack of explanation created far too many problems for this raid and many attempts like it.

 

It's pretty sad that we have to get everyone to stop during a mission, sit them down like children, and then explain everything. Isn't this what the Lotus is supposed to be doing? Oh wait, she's being jammed.

Edited March 20, 2015 by DBugII

[Absens]

I agree the puzzle is not a good opinion in a fast paced 3rd person shooter.

Dont know about the rest, ill wait a couple of days before i do a raid probably, people seems to hate it as it is now.

[thetruninja]

 Let me know what you guys thought about your experiences in the comments below.  Hopefully some ignorant fool isn't going to come along and say that these raids are good when they're clearly crap. 

So basically share your opinion as long as it is the same as mine.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

Sounds like a lot of *@##$ing from a casual who doesn't like puzzles.

This was their first raid. As their experience progresses they'll learn to add more instructions through visual and sound ques.

Edited March 20, 2015 by (XB1)Caon Vadam

[DBugII]

So basically share your opinion as long as it is the same as mine.

More like "Don't share if your opinion if it has nothing to do with the content of the raid itself."

[-Narauko-]

There Raids...I ran the first part and honestly can't say I see a full clan run having difficulty. Check the leaderboards out some people finished in 53mins.

 

Your group make up is all wrong. Trinitys + Lokis with strong CC keep the enemy subdued and play the objective, kill when its needed.

[locojuan]

http://content.warframe.com/dynamic/raidStatsArchive.php

click on records.

[Tymerc]

They need to make them soloable, period. Co-op is pathetically unreliable. No one listens.

 

Stop forcing me to play with people who are a hindrance, DE.

 

Other than that, I like the puzzles and objectives.

[Solandis]

Isn't that the entire idea of raids though? That they're crazy hard puzzles to figure out on your own so the first few people to do it have a nightmarish time? That sounds like a proper raid to me.

 

Also, "How are new players supposed to do this?" They're not. It's why there's (theoretically at least) an MR requirement.

 

Yeah, from the sounds of it you've not done an MMOFPS raid before. Yeah, that's basically how they work. They're supposed to only be accomplish-able by a team made ahead of time with a strategy. It's kind of the entire thing that makes them different from standard gameplay.

[kswong98]

We've played it, and we were stucj at the second injector, only 2 consoles, and no matter what we can't deal with it

[thetruninja]

More like "Don't share if your opinion if it has nothing to do with the content of the raid itself."

Well I can't state my opinion on Raids as I'm forbidden from saying anything positive about them and doing so would make me ignorant apparently. 

The biggest negative I would say is that it is hard to coordinate people in game but I'm sure that will be much easier to do with clan members.

[MurakumoVance]

So basically share your opinion as long as it is the same as mine.

No not at all.  You could tell me you liked it. You could tell me it was fun.  Just don't tell me it was good.  I was having fun killing the enemies but the objectives keep you focused on all the tasks instead of killing.   I really thought the 8 player raids were gonna be this wide open huge tile set where thousands of enemies descended upon your tenno army..... instead we get a lot of enemies and even more objectives. The enemies were good, but the raid itself was just total S#&$.  Tell me what you thought though.

[MurakumoVance]

http://content.warframe.com/dynamic/raidStatsArchive.php

click on records.

I don't really see why you're posting records. Especially given the fact that most of the people who tried this failed.  And I feel like nobody would have failed given they understood what was going on.  But there is NOTHING telling you what to do. The minimap is utterly worthless here. It only tells you were the next objectives are.  I can't believe there's anyone that's ok with this.   100 out of 100 people should just hate this.  This mode doesn't belong in a fast paced 3rd person shooter. PERIOD! And if it did have some belonging, it would be alongside a nice set of instructions making it simple for random people to get on the same page. 

[Solandis]

I don't really see why you're posting records. Especially given the fact that most of the people who tried this failed.  And I feel like nobody would have failed given they understood what was going on.  But there is NOTHING telling you what to do. The minimap is utterly worthless here. It only tells you were the next objectives are.  I can't believe there's anyone that's ok with this.   100 out of 100 people should just hate this.  This mode doesn't belong in a fast paced 3rd person shooter. PERIOD! And if it did have some belonging, it would be alongside a nice set of instructions making it simple for random people to get on the same page. 

Man, yeah. You've got no experience when it comes to raids. It's how it goes man. The thing is? This is what we expected and wanted when we asked for raids.

 

The idea of it is a major challenge that you can't bumble your way through. A mission where you actually have to play with people you know, and to have a strategy ahead of time just to have a chance. AKA fun.

[Noble_Cactus]

Isn't that the entire idea of raids though? That they're crazy hard puzzles to figure out on your own so the first few people to do it have a nightmarish time? That sounds like a proper raid to me.

 

Also, "How are new players supposed to do this?" They're not. It's why there's (theoretically at least) an MR requirement.

 

Yeah, from the sounds of it you've not done an MMOFPS raid before. Yeah, that's basically how they work. They're supposed to only be accomplish-able by a team made ahead of time with a strategy. It's kind of the entire thing that makes them different from standard gameplay.

 

Unfortunately, solo q/playing with randoms is going to suck in any game. Ever.

 

I haven't tried any raids and likely won't since I have nobody to play with. So I can't say how the content of the raids could better fit WF's playstyle. But raids are the kind of deal I need at least a few people I know to play with.

[MurakumoVance]

Man, yeah. You've got no experience when it comes to raids. It's how it goes man. The thing is? This is what we expected and wanted when we asked for raids.

 

The idea of it is a major challenge that you can't bumble your way through. A mission where you actually have to play with people you know, and to have a strategy ahead of time just to have a chance. AKA fun.

Well then in that case I should be aiming my anger and frustration towards you then right?  Warframe was my Ninja Gaiden meets Halo  shooter hack and slash, and you're telling me that League of Legend nerds and WoW players screwed it up for me.   Are you even reading into anything I'm saying at all? This is a FAST PACED THIRD PERSON SHOOTER!!! Why would anyone want this crap in a shooter?  That's exactly what it is......... crap.  If this is the future of Warframe then count me the F%#K out.  I first fell in love with Warframe because I could backflip off a wall and snipe a guy across the map, now its boiled down to a battery draining your energy as you attempt to carry it to it's proper place. Needing team-mates to open doors while you're constantly dying? What's up with that?  I wanted the raids to be TOTAL war.  I would not have minded objectives being present that required everyone to pull their weight but how is ANYONE ok with the 2nd part where you gotta stand on the pressure plates and eventually everyone has to?  That is indeed NOT FUN.  I come from a very strategic background with shooters. I'm a die hard fan of the Tom Clancy games, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, and Splinter Cell, but this isn't worthy of a Tom Clancy mention.   I get angrier and angrier as I see people sticking up for DE here.  They deserved to be shunned for this until they fix it, and even if you like it, you have to admit that there's not instructions laid out for you to follow.  Random people on Warframe aren't the smartest people, so even if I were capable of doing all the work and I CERTAINLY did all the damage, I couldn't win that thing on my own.  There should of been some sort of balance happening.  There should of been a little room for error so more experienced members could pick up the slack of others.   It's just sad to see this be the only integration of 8 players when I would've been more than happy to play an 8 player exterminate.    I got my hopes up and thought we'd see some Halo Big Team Battle shenanigans but I guess I have too high of expectations. Still...vehicular battle would've been much more proffered. I know my opinion isn't the most popular one, but I know its how the majority of the community feels and I pray you don't get your way!  It's people like you who ruin good games like this trying to bring your mobas into it.  I'm probably being an A****** because I'm assuming but if this is what you pushed for YOU RUINED MY GAME!!! 

[Solandis]

Well then in that case I should be aiming my anger and frustration towards you then right?  Warframe was my Ninja Gaiden meets Halo  shooter hack and slash, and you're telling me that League of Legend nerds and WoW players screwed it up for me.   Are you even reading into anything I'm saying at all? This is a FAST PACED THIRD PERSON SHOOTER!!! Why would anyone want this crap in a shooter?  That's exactly what it is......... crap.  If this is the future of Warframe then count me the F%#K out.  I first fell in love with Warframe because I could backflip off a wall and snipe a guy across the map, now its boiled down to a battery draining your energy as you attempt to carry it to it's proper place. Needing team-mates to open doors while you're constantly dying? What's up with that?  I wanted the raids to be TOTAL war.  I would not have minded objectives being present that required everyone to pull their weight but how is ANYONE ok with the 2nd part where you gotta stand on the pressure plates and eventually everyone has to?  That is indeed NOT FUN.  I come from a very strategic background with shooters. I'm a die hard fan of the Tom Clancy games, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, and Splinter Cell, but this isn't worthy of a Tom Clancy mention.   I get angrier and angrier as I see people sticking up for DE here.  They deserved to be shunned for this until they fix it, and even if you like it, you have to admit that there's not instructions laid out for you to follow.  Random people on Warframe aren't the smartest people, so even if I were capable of doing all the work and I CERTAINLY did all the damage, I couldn't win that thing on my own.  There should of been some sort of balance happening.  There should of been a little room for error so more experienced members could pick up the slack of others.   It's just sad to see this be the only integration of 8 players when I would've been more than happy to play an 8 player exterminate.    I got my hopes up and thought we'd see some Halo Big Team Battle shenanigans but I guess I have too high of expectations. Still...vehicular battle would've been much more proffered. I know my opinion isn't the most popular one, but I know its how the majority of the community feels and I pray you don't get your way!  It's people like you who ruin good games like this trying to bring your mobas into it.  I'm probably being an A****** because I'm assuming but if this is what you pushed for YOU RUINED MY GAME!!! 

Man, I don't even like MOBAS. Don't have the patience for them.

 

But anyway, that wasn't your major point; Okay, even if we ignore the fact that you could...ignore the raids I think you're missing my major point. Which is that for some people, a lot of people actually, this kind of figuring out puzzles thing while constantly attack is fun. The main reason being that it requires them to communicate with their team, and no matter what you may say you've got to acknowledge that the main point of a multiplayer game is playing with other people and that these raids force you to actually, y'know, play with the other players.

 

Besides, it's not like this is the first "fast-paced third person shooter" to have raids of this nature; another recent one that springs to mind is Destiny (A game where, most players say, the raids are actually the most fun part). Honestly, you claim to come from a background of strategic shooters, you should be super into this type of thing. Getting together a group of friends so that you can all plot out how to tackle the difficulties before you. That's tactics man; the plan of "winging it" is no plan at all.

 

Final point, and it's the one I've been trying to get across the most. You say that "you couldn't win that thing on your own". That's the point. It's a multiplayer thing. Where you play with other people to figure out how to tackle puzzles that are bigger than any of you individually.

 

Also, you can direct your anger and frustrations at me sure. I don't mind.

 

Edit: Right! I forgot to mention. Raids, while a part of the future, are in no way the future. So you can still enjoy all the parts that aren't them. Those aren't going to change.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Solandis

[Emberlynx]

DE showed footage of them playing the raid before it was released and explicitly stated that the biggest challenge would be organization and puzzle solving.

 

I agree that an 8 player exterminate would be amazing, maybe even better than this, but the truth is DE delivered exactly what most people were expecting and wanted.

[Solandis]

DE showed footage of them playing the raid before it was released and explicitly stated that the biggest challenge would be organization and puzzle solving.

 

I agree that an 8 player exterminate would be amazing, maybe even better than this, but the truth is DE delivered exactly what most people were expecting and wanted.

Yeah, I won't argue there. Increasing the size of some of the standard missions could be cool...could be. They probably wouldn't honestly due to a lot of dudes just trying to solo it in a group.

 

But hey, at least this also works as a proof-of-concept that they can make missions which totally support 8 players.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Yeah, from the sounds of it you've not done an MMOFPS raid before. Yeah, that's basically how they work. They're supposed to only be accomplish-able by a team made ahead of time with a strategy. It's kind of the entire thing that makes them different from standard gameplay.

 

Probably because that's a game genre/task that barely exists?  I guess Destiny qualifies, sort of?  But that came out within the past year. 

 

So, you're coming off as arrogant &#! and admonishing someone for their lack of experience in a practically non-existent genre.  Let me tell you about how scrubby you are for not knowing the ins and outs of this Underwater-Basket-weaving game I have; you've probably never heard of it.

 

If the communication is this bad on PC.  Consoles are #*($%%@.  We don't even have keyboards, and most people don't have or use mics.  I can't even recall the last game I played where people had mics; months ago, I guess.  Without an all mic-clan, you're basically completely #*($%%@ on this one.  You can barely pull 3 more people for missions that aren't super popular in prime-time.  The odds of being able to get 7 other randoms that all have mics is zero.

 

Sounds like failed design and content, or something for some niche group of all-mic'd competetive clan gamers.

 

I guess it makes sense in a way.  The Primed Mods and such have certainly catered to that crowd, the sort that got stocks of hundreds of T4 keys back when they were in syndicates and the rep had no cap.  

 

The rest of the vets get content they can't use because it was designed around standards that don't exist for the gamers without ready-made groups of of 8 or more mic'd people ready to play at all hours.

[Inez]

Did a couple runs tonight with a group that was 3 clannies plus pugs, thought it was pretty fun.

 

Then again, I'm MR19 and used to raid in WoW pretty hardcore, so I'm hardly your average gamer. If you want challenging content where you have to actually plan and communicate, this is it. If you're looking for an 8 player exterminate mission that you can play drunk with one hand tied behind your back while watching TV, you're going to be very disappointed.

 

It was pretty bizarre of DE to release such challenging content in what is an otherwise very easy, casual game.

[Avenias]

From my experience, i did not like it as i was expecting there to be more combat, instead of just running around with bombs strapped to ur back.

[Letter13]

The point of a raid is that you go in not knowing how to beat it. You're supposed to have a team of players you're familiar with and you're supposed to fail over and over in order to discover how to beat it.

 

What would be really disappointing is if DE held our hands and explained how to do every little thing needed to beat it. That defeats the point of a raid, which is designed to be an extremely tough puzzle that players need to figure out.

 

That being said, there are players who have already figured it out, and there's a group that's already doing the whole raid at less than 20 minutes.

[GhostSwordsman]

There Raids...I ran the first part and honestly can't say I see a full clan run having difficulty. Check the leaderboards out some people finished in 53mins.

 

Your group make up is all wrong. Trinitys + Lokis with strong CC keep the enemy subdued and play the objective, kill when its needed.

The mentality that some players use for content like this is not what warframe is meant to be at all.

 

If a team REQUIRES a specific number of X frame and a specific number of Y and Z frame, because frames X, Y, and Z's abilities remove the RNG, DPS, and CC from the enemies, then something is wrong with the content.

 

Warframe should allow any combination of the 23 warframes, and/or their primes, to tackle any challenge the game throws at us. That's the whole reason for the modding system, it should allow any frame to be viable. Clearly, this is not the case, nor has it really ever been, as the game is still a WIP. I think that raids are highlighting some of the core issues with the game and in order for content like this to become more... friendly (best word I can come up with) to any team setup, then these core issues need to be addressed ASAP.

 

 

Now, don't misuderstand me here. I'm not saying that using the strategy of having X, Y, and Z frames in a team set up is bad, and I'm not saying that it shouldn't be the case that a set team of X, Y, and Z frames trend to being one of the most efficient team set ups. What I am saying is, if it is neccessary to have X, Y, and Z frames in the team, and possibly nothing else, then something is seriously wrong. Amongst the frustration that is very clearly being vented in the OP, you can tell that aside from the communication issues, they might have had team synergy issues. You're outright saying that they are wrong because they don't have X and Y frames and instead are attempting a different team synergy/set up, and that set up they are trying/were using should be completely viable.