Kohm And Synoid, Being Over-Nerfed Is Better Than Being Over-Powered

[SmilingMad]

No. This is topic about poor weapon's balance and Soma/Coma is still worse than this crippled Kohm!

The Kohm is far from crippled though. Stubbed its toe, or maybe twisted its ankle, but far from crippled. 

[Grom-84]

In comparison how it was yesterday - it got crippled XD

[Crazii59]

I disagree. Just because a weapon is very good doesn't mean everyone is shoe-horned into using it.

 

I like the Gammacors for their design. I use them because I think they're cool. Now, however, even if I run with my Synoid Gammacor (which isn't optimised for damage, by the way, because there's more to a weapon than how big you can make the numbers) I run out of ammo crazy fast.

 

The weapon was nerfed into the ground. You complain about how weapons are overshadowed by others that are way too good and say you're happy about this change.

 

Hypocrite.

 

The weapon just became one of those poor, helpless. sad weapons that you want to bring out of obscurity. The answer is not to nerf the good weapons. The answer is to buff the ones no one cares about. Maybe then we'll get some variety in the limited endgame we currently have.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

But the present nerf has made it basically unusable even though its DPS is virtually identical.

 

I think that now, the Synoid fills the same role that the Twin Wraith vipers did, where it provides massive DPS for a very limited time. Are the TWV unusable because of their ammo efficiency? Is the Amprex unusable as well?

 

And those weapons will be Mastery fodder like the Acrid atm. Do you see any1 using it? Yup, the future of current Synoid... mastery wep.

 

It's still a very powerful weapon, it just actually has downsides now.

 

A unbalanced game can be both fun and a pain, depends what you want to play.. So yea... no.

Warframe's PVE isn't competative...

Enemies AFAIK were never buffed due to Synoid(If they were, post the proof). 

DON'T tell people how to play a game. 

 

"Warframe is a PvE game, so weapon balance isn't an issue."

 

I've already told you why it's an issue. Please actually read the OP. It means that people who use the weapons that they like will have lower damage output then if they were using the weapons that they hated.

 

For the ones that didn't use it because it didn't suit their playstyle... - ummm, no. Other weapons weren't nerfed when Synoid came out and enemies weren't buffed either. No dps loss there. 

 

The Latron Wraith is the weapon that I enjoy using more than anything else. The Synoid Gammacor has well over twice the DPS of the Latron Wraith. Your argument is false.

 

I disagree. Just because a weapon is very good doesn't mean everyone is shoe-horned into using it.

 

I disagree. When a weapon has nearly twice the DPS of the next best thing, it most certainly does shoehorn people into using it.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[[DE]Momaw]

a crappy weapon is always preferable to one that makes everything else not worth using.

 

Nope. Making an outstanding weapon into a sub-par one just changes which ones are not worth using.

[SmilingMad]

 

The answer is not to nerf the good weapons. The answer is to buff the ones no one cares about. Maybe then we'll get some variety in the limited endgame we currently have.

The answer is to SENSIBLY nerf weapons that are borderline broken (and yes, this includes the Synoid, which could be considered to have been one of the best primaries despite not being a damn primary), AND buff the bad ones. I said sensibly because I disagree with the severity of this nerf. It's not so much of a step in the right direction as it is a careless bound. Fire rate a tad down, damage a bit up. Make it somewhat more potent than it currently is, while avoiding the insane ammo consumption.

 

That said, I haven't ever used the God Finger and as such am merely guessing at how bad the ammo economy is now. 

[Crazii59]

 

I disagree. When a weapon has nearly twice the DPS of the next best thing, it most certainly does shoehorn people into using it.

I have never once said. "oh I really want to use this gun but unfortunately I just can't because this other gun is so much better."

 

I will use whatever weapon I want to use. All this nerf did was remove one of the weapons that could hold its own in super-high-level content, which doesn't solve any problems. If anything, the nerf shoe-horns people away from using it because you run out of ammo 2 minutes into the mission.

 

Also, comparing this to the Amprex doesn't make sense. Amprex's ammo consumption is balanced based on crowd control capabilities. You're never going to be holding the trigger on an Amprex. The change to the Sycor makes holding the trigger the primary function. Holding the trigger means suddenly you're out of ammo and meleeing everything.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I have never once said. "oh I really want to use this gun but unfortunately I just can't because this other gun is so much better."

 

I will use whatever weapon I want to use. All this nerf did was remove one of the weapons that could hold its own in super-high-level content, which doesn't solve any problems. If anything, the nerf shoe-horns people away from using it because you run out of ammo 2 minutes into the mission.

 

Also, comparing this to the Amprex doesn't make sense. Amprex's ammo consumption is balanced based on crowd control capabilities. You're never going to be holding the trigger on an Amprex. The change to the Sycor makes holding the trigger the primary function. Holding the trigger means suddenly you're out of ammo and meleeing everything.

 

You will use whatever weapon you want to use, but you will lose out on massive amounts of DPS becasue of it. This is the problem I (and apparently DE too) are trying to solve. I can see how the Amprex's crowd control would increase its ammo efficiency and make tapfiring more viable, but the Twin Wraith Vipers don't have that advantage. I think that the Synoid should be viewed as the new TWV.

 

Aha finaly we have a root of your problem! Dont even try to argue that its not a banal jealousy and you simply coudn't live with a fact that someone has a bigger gun than you lol)

 

I could say the inverse of this non-argument to you, and it would be even more valid than you saying it to me.

 

Anything I want to say to you would get me another warning post, so I'll just let the community tear you apart with vicious personal insults for me. It looks like they're already starting.

[vindcare]

It's still a very powerful weapon, it just actually has downsides now.

 

It doesn't have downsides. It's completly unplayable and outshined by other weapons. No sane person that wants to aim for 60mins TIV survi will ever pick that weapon if he can pick a better one.

 

"Warframe is a PvE game, so weapon balance isn't an issue."

 

I've already told you why it's an issue. Please actually read the OP. It means that people who use the weapons that they like will have lower damage output then if they were using the weapons that they hated.

"Warframe is a PvE game, so weapon balance isn't an issue."

Where did I say this? I said it's not competative, and that's true.

So what if their dmg is lower? There will ALWAYS be a weapon with highest DPS. Period.

 

The Latron Wraith is the weapon that I enjoy using more than anything else. The Synoid Gammacor has well over twice the DPS of the Latron Wraith. Your argument is false.

 

 

I disagree. When a weapon has nearly twice the DPS of the next best thing, it most certainly does shoehorn people into using it.

How is my argument invalid? What you fail to see is you're doing to exact same thing to Synoid that DE did to Latron Wraith. Making it S#&$. The difference is that Latron got outshined by NEW weapons and Synoid was nerfed to the ground.

Also, guess what. My Rakta has even more DPS then my Synoid and your Latron(like 3x). I can run 30mins+ of TIV survi using only it. So going by your logic, nerf the S#&$ out of it also?

Nerfing weapons without changing the "end-game" only makes the current "end-game" closer then it was before. 

 

[f3llyn]

For every single Warframe player, even the ones that used it. For the ones that didn't use it because it didn't suit their playstyle, they received a massive loss to their damage output for using the weapons that they liked. For those who did use it because it was overpowered, but wouldn't have otherwise, they were being forced to use a weapon that they didn't like. For those who would have used it anyways even if it wasn't overpowered, they shouldn't have a problem with the nerf.

 

Interesting. It didn't cause any problems for me. And I couldn't care less what other people are using as long as they aren't doing nothing through an entire mission.

 

I guess I just have a funny way of looking at things though. Silly me thinking I enjoyed a gun so I used it.

 

Apparently I was just lying to myself.

[VanguardT-EN-]

Kohm wasn't so OP as you pointed out, the spread made it difficult to Archive that damage. About synoid, just because it was too strong before; doesn't mean the devs should simply overnerf it. Overpower is bad, overnerf is as bad as overpower.

Edit: Tenno'd

Edited March 20, 2015 by SucodeCaju

[Grom-84]

Anything I want to say to you would get me another warning post, so I'll just let the community tear you apart with vicious personal insults for me. It looks like they're already starting.

Its mutual you know) and you are pathetic, boring, and the only one thorn apart already, posting the same copypasta in each thread. Bye "100K dps on paper man" enjoy your goodies until next nerf will take them away from you)

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

It doesn't have downsides. It's completly unplayable and outshined by other weapons. No sane person that wants to aim for 60mins TIV survi will ever pick that weapon if he can pick a better one.

 

As previously stated, the Twin Wraith Vipers have a similar issue, and we don't consider them to be completely unplayable because of it. The Synoid is still good, it's just not the god king of guns anymore.

 

"Warframe is a PvE game, so weapon balance isn't an issue."

Where did I say this? I said it's not competative, and that's true.

So what if their dmg is lower? There will ALWAYS be a weapon with highest DPS. Period.

 

The statement I made was strongly implied in your post. There will always be a highest DPS gun, but it shouldn't have double the DPS of the next best thing with no downsides whatsoever.

 

How is my argument invalid? What you fail to see is you're doing to exact same thing to Synoid that DE did to Latron Wraith. Making it S#&$. The difference is that Latron got outshined by NEW weapons and Synoid was nerfed to the ground.

Also, guess what. My Rakta has even more DPS then my Synoid and your Latron(like 3x). I can run 30mins+ of TIV survi using only it. So going by your logic, nerf the S#&$ out of it also?

 

The Latron Wraith was just a personal example I pulled out of many possible ones. In a perfect world, every weapon category (assault rifle, sniper rifle, shotgun, etc.) should have at least one top tier weapon that doesn't surpass any of the other top tier weapons from any of the other categories. This is not a perfect world. The Latron Wraith is the best marksman rifle in the game, and it's not even close to top tier.

 

Interesting. It didn't cause any problems for me. And I couldn't care less what other people are using as long as they aren't doing nothing through an entire mission.

 

I guess I just have a funny way of looking at things though. Silly me thinking I enjoyed a gun so I used it.

 

Apparently I was just lying to myself.

 

The Synoid is still a good weapon. If you like its mechanics, then you should find that it's still worth using even after the nerf.

 

Overpower is bad, overnerf is as bad as overpower.

 

An underpowered weapon is simply ignored, and has almost no effect on the game. This is bad.

 

An overpowered weapon, especially one with twice the DPS of the next best thing, makes everything else underpowered by comparison, and has an extremely bad effect on the game. This is worse.

 

Its mutual you know) and you are pathetic, boring, and the only one thorn apart already, posting the same copypasta in each thread. Bye "100K dps on paper man" enjoy your goodies until next nerf will take them away from you)

 

The flame war will not happen. You want one, I'm not going to give it to you. I don't feed trolls.

Edited March 21, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Suthurn]

id just like a refund of my time, potato, and forma for my kohm honestly.

 

this is not the weapon i invested in anymore. this is some ammo consuming monster that i consider unusable.

 

id gladly revert it to unranked garbage if i could move the affinity and things over to something i still want to use.

 

 

dont mean to come off as adolescent, but i am pretty unhappy that i spent time and resources on something to have it turned into something i dont even want to own. 

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I don't give a flying **** about the damage the Kohm did, I miss the bouncy pellets and punch-through.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I don't give a flying **** about the damage the Kohm did, I miss the bouncy pellets and punch-through.

 

I would like to see an actual argument here. Saying that you don't care about its damage output is saying that you don't care about game balance. I've said this so many times already, just because you don't care doesn't mean it wasn't stupidly ridiculous. While it would have been better if the Kohm had simply received a stat nerf instead of having its unique mechanic removed, this iteration is still preferable to what it was.

Edited March 21, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Ppl were always like this, shotguns dmg falloff ruined shotguns for them, iron skin nerf ruined rhino, snow globe nerf ruined frost, blessing ruined trinity, damage 2.0 ruined acrid.

 

Give it 2-3 weeks theyll calm.

Shotguns are still in a bad place bar Phage who guess what? Hasn't damage fall off, so point still stands. Acrid is now in a fine spot as is frost, despite some complaints, i don't even read them but it must have something to do with avalanche being one of the most useless abilities in the game, which i agree, but all in all, frost is in a sweet spot too.

 

Shotguns need help as they always did, as does Rhino, halfway through the star chart it can't even be called a tank anymore, unless you call stomping every 8secs tanking.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

id just like a refund of my time, potato, and forma for my kohm honestly.

 

this is not the weapon i invested in anymore. this is some ammo consuming monster that i consider unusable.

 

id gladly revert it to unranked garbage if i could move the affinity and things over to something i still want to use.

 

 

dont mean to come off as adolescent, but i am pretty unhappy that i spent time and resources on something to have it turned into something i dont even want to own. 

Same here, one thing is the expected stats nerfs and buffs we see all the time, thing is, kohm was DIFFERENT, diffent made it fun, now it's as boring as it gets.

[f3llyn]

 

The Synoid is still a good weapon. If you like its mechanics, then you should find that it's still worth using even after the nerf.

 

 

Except for the mechanics on it are not the same. It's completely different. That's what changing it's ammo consumption does.

 

That's why I said I would have preferred if they had just straight up nerfed it's damage instead. Damage somewhere between the original gammacor and what it was pre nerf would have been fine. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by f3llyn

[Alice-in-Wonderland]

Time to nerf Boltor Prime, Soma, Soma Prime, Dread, and Paris Prime.  They are over used by many players.  Let's dumb down the overall game experiences.  We love "challenges" right?

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Time to nerf Boltor Prime, Soma, Soma Prime, Dread, and Paris Prime.  They are over used by many players.  Let's dumb down the overall game experiences.  We love "challenges" right?

 

All of the weapons you listed had under half the DPS of the Synoid Gammacor and a 4th of the Kohm. Invalid argument.

[Alice-in-Wonderland]

All of the weapons you listed had under half the DPS of the Synoid Gammacor and a 4th of the Kohm. Invalid argument.

 

Wow you are one sticky poster eh?  You have to prove your argument every time someone post counter-argument.  Your DPS logic only works on the paper.  Have you ever used any of weapons?  I am just amazed by your effort.

[dddeath]

I find it strange that DE puts these weapons out without checking the stats with maxed mods. are they only now figuring out that it was a bit OP?

lesson learned: don't waste 5 forma on weapons with too good base stats, it'll get nerfed to unusable status.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Wow you are one sticky poster eh?  You have to prove your argument every time someone post counter-argument.  Your DPS logic only works on the paper.  Have you ever used any of weapons?  I am just amazed by your effort.

 

I have maxed every single top tier weapon in this game, and both the Kohm and Synoid Gammacor were apocalyptically murderiffic. I can understand that with the Kohm not all the pellets will hit every time (although you would have to miss 5 out of 11 pellets before the DPS equals that of the Synoid), but the Synoid Gammacor's paper DPS translates perfectly over to the real game, considering that it's hitscan and 100% accurate.

 

Forgive me for being determined. I didn't know actually having some tenacity was a bad thing.

Edited March 21, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Alice-in-Wonderland]

I have maxed every single top tier weapon in this game, and both the Kohm and Synoid Gammacor were apocalyptically murderiffic. I can understand that with the Kohm not all the pellets will hit every time (although you would have to miss 5 pellets before the DPS equals of the Synoid), but the Synoid Gammacor's paper DPS translates perfectly over to the real game, considering that it's hitscan and 100% accurate.

 

Uhm... hello again.  I have maxed and FORMA'D every single top tier weapons plus many garbage mastery rank weapons such as Aklato, Drakgoon, Mutalist Quanta, Embolist, Braton, Dera, Karak, Hind, Sicarus, Akbronco P etc. etc. and I still use them quite often in low-mid level games.  I simply enjoy playing those "bad" weapons.  

 

Well, let's be honest, I agree with you about Synoid Gammacor, it was obviously over powered (not just because of DPS, also because of syndicate energy regen) and over used by players but I think the nerf was too late.  Dev should have done it while ago before it became popular.  But again, DE Devs are so weird that they can only balance weapons and warframe like computer, 0 or 1. I believe they over nerfed it bit. 

 

About Kohm, the shotgun category well deserved one good weapon player could take to long T4 Survival missions and I believe it was the Kohm. Around 45 min mark in T4S, weapons without critical chance and critical damage falls off pretty quickly and Kohm actually did fall off around that time. That is why I believe nerf was unnecessary.

 

Sincerely,

 

Alice-in-Wonderland

Edited March 21, 2015 by Alice-in-Wonderland