Too Much Energy In The Conclaves, And Overpowered Abilities.

[.Talia.]

Some of the Warframe Abilities are a bit overpowered at the moment. Specially Radial Javelin and Overload. But the main problem is that energy is too abundant, and they respawn too fast. I can farm 100 energy in half a minute and then kill the entire opposite team, with a well timed good old press 4 to win. That is skilless and unfair in my opinion.

I think DE should look into the 1-Hit kill Ults. Yeah they should be strong, but not 1-Hit kills. You should have a chance of surviving. Instead of the insta-killing, why not add some utility to them? giving the targets a chance to escape while giving the striker a chance to earn the kill. For example: If you have max Health and Shields you should be able to survive a Overload but be stunned for a second, or if you survive a Radial Javelin you should be blinded enough time to make the Excal finish his long animation. Look at the 1st abilities such as Slash Dash and Pull, and they are strong and have some minor stun, but at least you have a chance of avoiding death. I didn't mention Avalanche because of its smaller range, and Crush because of its long animation, but i think all 4th abilities should have the same treatment, a good amount of damage, and stunned or disabled for a second, instead of insta-killing. 

About the Energy i think that there is just too much energy spawn points, that would be ok if they had a slow respawn but they don't, they respawn fairly quickly, and at some point they start spawning 2 energy orbs per spawning point. I suggest either reducing the number of spawning points by half, or doubling the respawn time of the energy orbs. About the two energy orbs on each spawning point, i'm still not sure why that happens, but regardless of the reason (I like to believe its a bug) it's a bad idea, energy is already abundant as it is. I don't think the energy should have double the spawns halfway through the match.

I have an ''out of the box'' suggestion about energy, but i don't know if everyone would agree to this. What if only killed enemies dropped energy orbs? Just throwing this idea out there.

Anyways, the insta-killing abilities and the excessive amount of energy in the Conclaves needs to be looked at. I Just got Volt Prime, and his 200 energy paired with Overload, makes him a bit too good at the moment. I'm able to race through the map and deny energy to the opposing team, spamming Overloads along the way. 

[TheStag]

Abilities should be earned, not given. I honestly think it would work best as automatically rewarding a player with 25 energy once a kill is earned, and the energy does not go away (even if player dies) unless used or stolen by Mag with her augment.

Abilities provide players with cheap, easy ways to instantly kill multiple enemies at once.

See the problems?

-Cheap

-Easy

-Instantly Kill

-Multiple Enemies

Ya. Btw +1 Rex.

Edited March 25, 2015 by TheStag

[HueOfBlood]

so basically make abilities like killstreak rewards in call of duty? im kinda in for this idea

[Dojutrek]

I agree with the Offensive abilities, like Excalibur's Radial Javelin and Volt's Overload, being reduced from 1-hit kill status. However, I would like to stipulate that with energy reserves being the way they are, a player should be given a basic allotment for their first skill and Defensive skills such as Frost's Snow Globe to be cast with this basic allotment. I say this, because there needs to be Defensive side to PVP and currently it is lacking in every way possible.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Dojutrek

[Magnar21]

A potential solution would be to make PVP skills have a timer, or energy to regen naturally rather than being forced to gather it. On the other hand, one could argue that defending the energy pools is a valid strategy. A kind of "killstreak" bonus or reward is viable as well. Dunno, don't know much about PVP balance, since player skill is supposed to play a stronger outcome than character abilities.

[Dojutrek]

A potential solution would be to make PVP skills have a timer, or energy to regen naturally rather than being forced to gather it. On the other hand, one could argue that defending the energy pools is a valid strategy. A kind of "killstreak" bonus or reward is viable as well. Dunno, don't know much about PVP balance, since player skill is supposed to play a stronger outcome than character abilities.

 

The problem is that the Energy pools are too global, there should be only energy pools inside the Flag Room and in close proximity to the individual bases. That way, if an enemy were to deny an energy drop, they'd be in a position to cause a problem with the opposing team. I think this is another core reason for the problems with Coptering, as Energy can be gained nearly anywhere and isn't centralized around the objectives or bases.

 

As for Regenerating Energy, I'd say it should be viable only if it's around the Flag Room and for the proper team. The Flag should impart this and once grabbed the Regeneration effect should be removed from the zone. The Flag Bearer wouldn't get imparted with this effect, as he/she isn't a part of that team. Think of it as a localized Team Buff where energy is imparted due to the objective being in its rightful place.

 

EDITED FOR CLARITY

Edited March 25, 2015 by Dojutrek

[zerogear5]

Abilities just need a cool down 

[.Talia.]

A potential solution would be to make PVP skills have a timer, or energy to regen naturally rather than being forced to gather it. On the other hand, one could argue that defending the energy pools is a valid strategy. A kind of "killstreak" bonus or reward is viable as well. Dunno, don't know much about PVP balance, since player skill is supposed to play a stronger outcome than character abilities.

I like all your suggestions, and i agree that player skill is supposed to play a greater outcome than overpowered abilities.

[oinkah]

#4 nukes are rudiments from PvE. They add nothing to the game other than frustration. Removing or heavily reworking them is the best option here. Kills must be earned.

[onemoonlight]

oh, volt prime has 200 energy in conclave? how fair

[Lunaroh]

+1 to the energy on kill idea instead of orbs

as someone said above, it should not reset on death.

 

PD: also, remove health orbs to avoid endless running.

[DAFIRE]

You can predict and (in some cases) avoid those 2 ults they have a long casting time,and

Radial jav is LOS, so just hide and you're ok

And Overload is slOOOoooow, just Don't stay near volt

For me, they could get some tweaks but they're fine

[rockscl]

And Overload is slOOOoooow, just Don't stay near volt

 

dying to overload means bad positioning, that wave seems to be slower than moa´s stomp, so yeah, eating it means staying too close to volt, but given the excessive movement speed that has been freely granted to every player, positioning his almost entirely disregarded, because almost any misstep can be fixed with one or two spins, but that will be hardly accepted by people who disregards tactic as a valid mean to get killed

[.Talia.]

oh, volt prime has 200 energy in conclave? how fair

I know, right? Not fair at all. A good player with a Volt Prime that knows what he is doing, can completely shift the balance of the match. I can carry my entire team and monopolize the energy orbs, denying the opposing team their abilities, while spamming some free well positioned Overloads around the map... Not balanced.

 

You can predict and (in some cases) avoid those 2 ults they have a long casting time,and

Radial jav is LOS, so just hide and you're ok

And Overload is slOOOoooow, just Don't stay near volt

For me, they could get some tweaks but they're fine

The problem with Radial Javelin is that i simply have to see my enemy and cast it, once i use it all targeted enemy players are already dead, even if they are already far from my range. There is no escape, i think that's bad for PvP, skill should matter, you should have a chance of surviving Radial Javelin, hence my suggestion of adding a blind or stun effect to it instead of the insta-killing.

About Overload, yes it is slow, but it's all about using it at the right time, for example on the enemy base when they have your cephalon, most players just mindlessly rush to their base after capturing the cephalon. I've been playing with Volt Prime since yesterday and he is just too good, i can Speed through the map farming energy orbs and no one can catch me. Usually i end the matches with around 30 kills and only dying once or twice. 

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by RexSol

[Ronyn]

Certainly there are a few issues with the powers in PVP right now.

However I cannot agree with lowering how much energy we get or trying to turn powers into killstreaks

Two things to keep in mind-

1: Frames will get largely homogenized without their powers. The unique aspects of them will fall away.

2: Frames will have to rely on base stats more and not all frames are meant to be played that way.

that in mind-

All solutions be more focused on balancing powers for common use...

not to lessen how often they are used.

[onemoonlight]

You can predict and (in some cases) avoid those 2 ults they have a long casting time,and

Radial jav is LOS, so just hide and you're ok

And Overload is slOOOoooow, just Don't stay near volt

For me, they could get some tweaks but they're fine

 

cool, so when are we getting that 360 option on the fov slider?

 

overlord is indeed slow, but use in some places makes it unavoidable - all you can do is watch as that slow aoe creeps your way with no room to escape

 

plus sometimes you and an enemy volt just bump into one another as you both dashed/coptered towards a flag room, and the moment you realise what is coming, you're dead. Or should we predict that possibility and wait in the middle of the map till they do that and grab our flag? :)

[rockscl]

Or should we predict that possibility and wait in the middle of the map till they do that and grab our flag? :)

 

if the skill was reworked somehow, even without oneshooting power it should mean enough advantage for him, to make you consider this as a better option

[StonedMakak]

Why not combine some of the OP's ideas? Both cut down on energy supply, and make Ults killstreaks. So that one can still grab a energy orb and have access to some abilities but have to earn the most powerful one. Of course Ults need to be equally powerful for this to make sense (I'm looking at you Chroma). 

[Lunaroh]

Removing the orbs would make the players focus more on fighting instead of running around from orb to orb like headless chickens.

 

Remove the reason for running around and people will start PVPing properly.

 

I don't join a pvp match to copter and ignore enemies through the whole duration. I join to fight!

Edited March 25, 2015 by Lunaroh

[MumblesMcphatty]

The only problem with tying energy gain to kills specifically - is there will be almost no way to stop the steamroll deathball.

 

First kill gets juice - uses juice advantage to gain next kill - and continue.

 

Meanwhile McFlounder is zapped & crushed & spiked until he ragequits.

[.Talia.]

Removing the orbs would make the players focus more on fighting instead of running around from orb to orb like headless chickens.

 

Remove the reason for running around and people will start PVPing properly.

+1

 

 

The only problem with tying energy gain to kills specifically - is there will be almost no way to stop the steamroll deathball.

 

First kill gets juice - uses juice advantage to gain next kill - and continue.

 

Meanwhile McFlounder is zapped & crushed & spiked until he ragequits.

 

You have a good point, sir.

Edited March 25, 2015 by RexSol

[Lunaroh]

maybe we can make players always spawn with at least 25 energy?

this would counter the steamroll a little and also make the first stage of the match a little more interesting and less dependant on just weapons and warframe stats.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Lunaroh

[.Talia.]

A step in the right direction:
 

 

 

PvP Changes

• Excalibur’s Radial Javelin will now double check that enemies are within range before launching.

Thanks DE.

[elspinaczio]

Radial jav is LOS, so just hide and you're ok

So you are saying that it's fair comapred to Volt's ulti that bypasses obstacles and kills everything in range no matter the LOS? Seriously?

 

I think DE should look into the 1-Hit kill Ults. Yeah they should be strong, but not 1-Hit kills.

Only few can do this. But what about Rhino's charge that kills in 1 hit? What about Volt's 1st skill that is whole map range and chains to nearby enemies (and usually kils in 1 hit)? What about Excal 1st skill that most of the time kills in 1 hit?

 

I see you have some issues here directed only in one way.

[.Talia.]

Only few can do this. But what about Rhino's charge that kills in 1 hit? What about Volt's 1st skill that is whole map range and chains to nearby enemies (and usually kils in 1 hit)? What about Excal 1st skill that most of the time kills in 1 hit?

 

I see you have some issues here directed only in one way.

I agree with you, all the 1st abilities are a bit too overpowered at the moment, they all need to be looked at. I think abilities in general shouldn't be such an impact on the game play as they currently have. The game is basically about racing through the map farming energy to spam abilities. I mentioned the Ults because they are insta-kill and require very little skill to be used, so they are the most unbalanced ones right now. But i agree that all abilities should be revised. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by RexSol