Consider Removing Excalibur's Invincibility During Slash Dash

[Nitresco]

At the moment, Excalibur's Slash Dash is ridiculous for a 25 energy ability. It deals a hilariously high amount of damage, is relatively easy to aim and kill with compared to the first abilities of other frames due to range, and bestows invincibility upon Excalibur during the animation. Basically, if that Excalibur has Slash Dash readied and you're nowhere near cover, he's going to hit you unless you're already prepping to copter.

 

Does anybody else think it'd be a bit more fair to allow the person on the other end of the Slash Dash a chance to retaliate? Volt's Shock, Mag's Pull, Chroma's Spectral Scream, Frost's Freeze. They all allow a chance to kill the caster during any point of the animation.

 

(I haven't experienced it yet, but I think Rhino's Charge is in the same boat as this. So I feel it's only fair it gets the same treatment.)

Edited March 26, 2015 by Nitresco

[GL.exe]

Tenno PvP is fun.  Regardless of what PvE "Pros" think.

I too think it Slash Dash needs to be toned down. It has a ridiculously large AoE, hitting even those who dodged 1-2 meters to the side in time.

 

At least you can dodge Radial Javelin if you time your dodge right.

Edited March 26, 2015 by ExxeFrame

[AsahiOka]

I was going to say:

It's funny how people wants to do more nerfs to excalibur, an already useless frame.

And then I saw: PvP Feedback.

Yes, I agree OP, invincibility needs to go.

[BoomyGordo]

if rolling in this game had i-frames like in dark souls id have no issue as id see it a challenge to my reaction skills but as is i can see this being op

[Andruunicul]

And make Excalibur a total pile of %+$$ ? No thanks....

[OniDax]

At the moment, Excalibur's Slash Dash is ridiculous for a 25 energy ability. It deals a hilariously high amount of damage, is relatively easy to aim and kill with compared to the first abilities of other frames due to range, and bestows invincibility upon Excalibur during the animation. Basically, if that Excalibur has Slash Dash readied and you're nowhere near cover, he's going to hit you unless you're already prepping to copter.

 

Does anybody else think it'd be a bit more fair to allow the person on the other end of the Slash Dash a chance to retaliate? Volt's Shock, Mag's Pull, Chroma's Spectral Scream, Frost's Freeze. They all allow a chance to kill the caster during any point of the animation.

 

(I haven't experienced it yet, but I think Rhino's Charge is in the same boat as this. So I feel it's only fair it gets the same treatment.)

 

Yeah, Rhino's Charge is in the same boat, but it makes up for their other abilities not being that strong. If they're gonna remove invincibility, then they need to buff Stomp at least. Haven't tried RJ yet. Thing is, Excalibur's already pretty weak compared to other frames, so he's got that going against him in PvP. His invincibility gives him some advantage, even if a little bit. It's rather easy for Excalibur to miss someone with Slash Dash, or to avoid the ability.

Edited March 26, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[Mastikator2]

I've tried this with my friend, I think Slash Dash may (or may not) have been nerfed since.

 

However, we both had Excal and we tried to do a Slash Dash against each other at the same time, we both lost 100 shield and took no HP damage. When we tried using the rolling mechanic it didn't do much, it reduced damage by about 20% (instead of the advertised 75%).

When we tried Slash Dash against unguarded Excal it one-shotted.

 

My finding is that Slash Dash does in fact NOT give invulnerability, but it does give damage reduction, probably 50%.

 

I don't think Slash Dash needs a further nerf, it's moderately easy to use, but then again it has very limited range.

[Twilight053]

And make Excalibur a total pile of %+$$ ? No thanks....

Mag is more %+$$.

 

Then again, they need to make the width of the range smaller, it's frustrating when you know you've dodged sideways yet still got killed.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Twilight053

[Auramaru]

Mag is more %+$$, get it right.

 

Then again, they need to make the width of the range smaller, it's frustrating when you know you've dodged sideways yet still got killed.

Actually, Mag is a really strong frame right now with the use of Pull and Shield Polarize.

(A guaranteed stagger and an ability that takes ALL enemy shields and restores your own??)

[faustias]

thank god I read OP.

 

yeah... also Rhino Charge, it has the same invincibility.

[Qynchou]

Yeah, Rhino's Charge is in the same boat, but it makes up for their other abilities not being that strong. If they're gonna remove invincibility, then they need to buff Stomp at least. Haven't tried RJ yet. Thing is, Excalibur's already pretty weak compared to other frames, so he's got that going against him in PvP. His invincibility gives him some advantage, even if a little bit. It's rather easy for Excalibur to miss someone with Slash Dash, or to avoid the ability.

Exaclibur weak in pvp? Wow, which game are we talking about?

 

Slash dash requires barely any aim to hit, has insane radius, ridiculous damage and staggers aswell, RJ is relatively easy to land as long as youre not trying to land it on units that are coptering away and always results in an instant kill.

 

Meanwhile rhino charge has barely any radius and rhino stomp just staggers and it has the same range as RJ.

[StonedMakak]

I would keep the invincibility. If you remove it, Excal will still oneshot with it, the only difference being that the victim will damage him before dying. If you nerf the damage in addition to that, people will just eat Slash Dash and shot Excal resulting in useless skill. If you only nerf damage, Excal users will just need 50 energy instead of 25 for a guaranteed kill (stagger allows to chain SD on the same target for as long as you have energy).

 

IMHO give the ability more wind up time, so it is a skillshot. It's ridiculously easy to land. Tune down the damage a bit so that Excal has to finish off his target most of the time, instead of oneshoting most of the time.  

[Aggh]

I would keep the invincibility. If you remove it, Excal will still oneshot with it, the only difference being that the victim will damage him before dying. If you nerf the damage in addition to that, people will just eat Slash Dash and shot Excal resulting in useless skill. If you only nerf damage, Excal users will just need 50 energy instead of 25 for a guaranteed kill (stagger allows to chain SD on the same target for as long as you have energy).

 

IMHO give the ability more wind up time, so it is a skillshot. It's ridiculously easy to land. Tune down the damage a bit so that Excal has to finish off his target most of the time, instead of oneshoting most of the time. .

It's a straight dash, he essentially becomes the easiest target in the world when he uses it. No invincibility also allows team mates to kill him while he's using it.

[StonedMakak]

It's a straight dash, he essentially becomes the easiest target in the world when he uses it. No invincibility also allows team mates to kill him while he's using it.

 

Also true. That's why I would prefer harder to land SD over an SD that basically screams "HIT ME NAO!".

 

Truth be told Chroma is in that spot currently with Spectral Scream, meaning it exposes you and takes a bit of time to kill the target, making frost the best element in PvP for Chroma. Afterburner gives it a nice skillshot aspect where you have to charge the attack, which is obvious and puts you at risk, in order to have a chance at dealing massive damage. Wish SD was that well designed.   

[Lord_Noctus]

i agree. when a warframe does a skill like that it shouldnt be invincible no matter which frame

[Aggh]

Also true. That's why I would prefer harder to land SD over an SD that basically screams "HIT ME NAO!".

 

Truth be told Chroma is in that spot currently with Spectral Scream, meaning it exposes you and takes a bit of time to kill the target, making frost the best element in PvP for Chroma. Afterburner gives it a nice skillshot aspect where you have to charge the attack, which is obvious and puts you at risk, in order to have a chance at dealing massive damage. Wish SD was that well designed.   

A wind up will just make it easy to dodge, it won't make it harder to land, it will make it weak as hell; if you want to make it harder to land, just make the hitbox smaller; right now it's gigantic.  Doing that and taking the invincibility off it will give it more appropriate risk vs reward.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[StonedMakak]

A wind up will just make it easy to dodge, it won't make it harder to land, it will make it weak as hell; if you want to make it harder to land, just make the hitbox smaller; right now it's gigantic.  Doing that and taking the invincibility off it will give it more appropriate risk vs reward.

 

Small hitbox will make it impossible to land. See? Two can play this game.

 

How easy it would be to dodge depends on wind up time, it's obvious that a sweet spot needs to be found where it is not too long or too short. Likewise, how difficult it is to land would depend on exact size of the hitbox. 

 

But reducing the hitbox is also a good suggestion. Ideally, I would like a situation where both the ability to aim of the attacker and the ability to dodge of the attacked, play a role in deciding if the attack is successful. Yet again, Chroma's Afterburn has both wind up and tight hitbox, and is working perfectly fine. 

[Aggh]

Small hitbox will make it impossible to land. See? Two can play this game.

 

How easy it would be to dodge depends on wind up time, it's obvious that a sweet spot needs to be found where it is not too long or too short. Likewise, how difficult it is to land would depend on exact size of the hitbox. 

 

But reducing the hitbox is also a good suggestion. Ideally, I would like a situation where both the ability to aim of the attacker and the ability to dodge of the attacked, play a role in deciding if the attack is successful. Yet again, Chroma's Afterburn has both wind up and tight hitbox, and is working perfectly fine. 

No,a smaller hitbox will mean that it will require timing and aim to land.  A windup time will either get you killed or dodged, slash dash isn't impossible to dodge now as it is, any more warning and it will be too easy to dodge, which would be bad when most other frames have almost instanteous #1's

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[StonedMakak]

No,a smaller hitbox will mean that it will require timing and aim to land.  A windup time will either get you killed or dodged, slash dash isn't impossible to dodge now as it is, any more warning and it will be too easy to dodge.

 

You missed the point entirely: How easy to dodge or to land the skill is depends on numerical values which can be adjusted. Making the hitbox smaller will not automatically make it better. That depends on how small you make the hitbox. Same with wind up time. I'm not married to the idea but the grounds upon you dismiss it, are simply not logically sound. But I grow wary of this bickering, I stand by my opinion feel free to disagree and promote your own. 

[Aggh]

You missed the point entirely: How easy to dodge or to land the skill is depends on numerical values which can be adjusted. Making the hitbox smaller will not automatically make it better. That depends on how small you make the hitbox. Same with wind up time. I'm not married to the idea but the grounds upon you dismiss it, are simply not logically sound. But I grow wary of this bickering, I stand by my opinion feel free to disagree and promote your own. 

Except that certain values when added will have a negative effect unless they are nigh on negligible.  Any added wind up time will simply kill the ability's usefulness, especially as an escape.  That you cannot see this is your problem and not mine.  I'll agree to disagree here.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[Nitresco]

Actually, Mag is a really strong frame right now with the use of Pull and Shield Polarize.

(A guaranteed stagger and an ability that takes ALL enemy shields and restores your own??)

You forgot her aimbo- I mean, "Bullet Attractor".

 

 

My finding is that Slash Dash does in fact NOT give invulnerability, but it does give damage reduction, probably 50%.

It does give invulnerability. On countless occasions, I've had big fat blue zeroes pop up on my screen while shooting a Slash Dashing Excalibur.