Turning Excalibur Into A Melee Frame.

[BattledOne]

There's a lot of talk by devs saying excaliburr being, or at least being intended as a melee frame. 

As we all know, that's not the case, not even close. No forced melee themed augments will make him more melee oriented. 

To get an idea on what a good melee frame is lets look at some popular frames picked up for melee runs:

Valkyr, Chroma, Loki, Ash.

All of them have abilities that take advantage of melee by both buffing melee damage output AND survivability. Notice the bold on survivability. Survivability is bolded because it is important, I'd say imperative to successful melee.

 

Survivability. 

 

Survivability is important, doh!

 

Anyhow what I'm saying is that picking melee over ranged combat cuts your survivability at least in half. Most enemies get increased accuracy in melee range which substantially increases the damage you take. Most special abilities the enemies posses only affect players in close range of them (Heavy Gunner/Bombard/Eximus ground blast, Scorpion/Ancient grapple, eximus abilities like toxic aura). Excal doesn't really have a reliable survivability mechanism and his abilities don't really have much melee going on for them. 

 

I propose to make some tweaks to his abilities, and perhaps base stats to fix that.

 

Firstly Slash Dash 

It's a pretty simple ability and the combo multiplier effect it has is pretty neat. Only thing I'd change is make the animation faster and make the damage be affected by the combo multiplier.

 

Super Jump

This really shouldn't be an ability. And judging by the latest dev stream, normal and strong jump are going to be a thing in Parkour 2.0 so this becomes even less relevant.

What about a toggle ability that channels Excalibur's prowess draining energy while making all of his melee attacks channeling (with maximum efficiency), allowing him to block from all directions, stamina on kill and removing combo counter expiration timer while active.

 

Radial Blind

Pretty fine as far as I know, maybe make it castable while moving?

 

Radial Javelin

Make each enemy hit add to combo counter as well and/or make the damage scalable by combo counter. 

 

The combination of Radial Blind not interrupting movement and giving him ability to block from all directions would increase his survivability greatly. Also, like Mesa, he could have a base bonus with melee weapons, having +50% stamina with only melee weapons equipped, +20% range  to heavy weapons, +5% attack speed to dual weapons and 50% stamina efficiency for attacks with single light weapons.

[KlarVyvern]

I would like a shield instead of jump, like the one in Dark Sector, but otherwise these are all good and very resonable.

Edited March 29, 2015 by KlarVyvern

[Senketsu_]

I would like a shield instead of jump, like the one in Dark Sector, but otherwise these are all good and very resonable.

I would love a front facing shield like DS.

[StarScribe]

To be perfectly honest here, after all this time and countless numbers of balancing suggestions for excalibur... lets face it. DE doesnt really care nor listens to feedback related to his abilities. He is right now just considered a constant buff and nerf fodder for the masses.

 

I remember there were many great ideas and suggestions on how to make excalibur fun and effective without making him over the top powerful and providing ways to avoid nerfs and upset majority of player base that main him as a character.

 

Yet after all this time, after countless times of buffing, nerfing and buffing again... all they do is nerf "again" on his ult ability. I am not surprised the least bit.

 

But on the topic side, I definetly like to see the increased mobility to be added to his abilities like OP has suggested.

 

I think the most we can suggest is stat changes to his abilities, but I do not belive DE wishes to go far enough that would drastically change his gameplay mechanics all together.

Edited March 29, 2015 by StarScribe

[(XBOX)SkinnyANOINTED1]

Man I tell you I really like your idea to replace super jump. That is exactly what he needs. He doesn't have to be a tank to be a melee character but that ability would certainly help. I would then suggest some minor base stat bumps on top of your passives: 1.1 speed, and 250 stamina (unless the stamina system is getting reworked).

[ZzVinniezZ]

I would like a shield instead of jump, like the one in Dark Sector, but otherwise these are all good and very resonable.

count me in.

[shut]

Radial Javelin

Make each enemy hit add to combo counter as well and/or make the damage scalable by combo counter. 

 

Oh boy, that's going to be nasty. DE wanted to get rid of the whole 4-spamming issue, but letting Javelin add to the combo counter would worsen this issue tenfold.

I always thought it would be pretty cool for Javelin's damage to scale from the combo counter, but not add to or refresh the counter when cast. So you can effectively "charge it up" with melee and Slash Dash before unleashing a world-shattering javelin attack.

 

 

That aside, though, Excal isn't intended to be a pure-melee frame. He's built to be an all-rounder who's good with virtually any weapon choice. Of course he should be significantly above average at melee because of this since most other frames' ability sets take only gun&blade gameplay into account (especially those who didn't have a release or revamp since U13), but the whole point of his design is that players can use him without feeling pressured into using a certain weapon type.

[BattledOne]

Oh boy, that's going to be nasty. DE wanted to get rid of the whole 4-spamming issue, but letting Javelin add to the combo counter would worsen this issue tenfold.

I always thought it would be pretty cool for Javelin's damage to scale from the combo counter, but not add to or refresh the counter when cast. So you can effectively "charge it up" with melee and Slash Dash before unleashing a world-shattering javelin attack.

 

 

That aside, though, Excal isn't intended to be a pure-melee frame. He's built to be an all-rounder who's good with virtually any weapon choice. Of course he should be significantly above average at melee because of this since most other frames' ability sets take only gun&blade gameplay into account (especially those who didn't have a release or revamp since U13), but the whole point of his design is that players can use him without feeling pressured into using a certain weapon type.

Well values can always be adjusted. If it only adds to the combo counter but doesn't get a damage bonus from it doesn't go into the nuke. It could be used as a quick combo boost to start the fight with a 1.5-2x combo multiplier.

 

Yes he was advertised as an all-rounder but nowadays many other frames are better at the all-roundness. The same Mesa is more all rounder than Excal, as she not only excels nicely at ranged combat and nuking, but her skillset lends itself nicely to melee (Shatter shield protecting her from damage + Shooting Gallery preventing enemies near her from attacking her). Most frames have unique abilities that define them (Volt's Speed, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Mag's Pull/Shield Polarize and so on) yet Excalibur is pretty bland. 

Sure you can argue there are other frames that have a pretty bland skillset, like Saryn. But compared to Excal she's a lot more unique + her augments are quite useful. 

Only reason he had a surge in popularity is because he had the highest range on his AoE nuke, making him useful in various farm strats. That's only thing he had going for him and obviously isn't healthy for him. Nekros is often relegated to these farm strats as well, yet if you take farm aspect away he's still a unique and useful frame. 

Every frame needs a niche, something unique to them and as of now Excal's only niche is that he can jump good.

[Koujjo]

I like the Super Jump replacement idea. Survivability is definitely what he's missing and this would help that. Not to mention it would be fun to be a parry master.

[Stratego89]

Super jump replacement idea is very interesting. I could see it working. Though I say make the channeling part not take ANY energy per hit, the drain per second would be enough. I also think stamina is a completely broken mechanic, and either needs a seriously good rework or to be removed... That being said being able to block from any direction would still make it useful.

[Nox-Lamina]

What about a toggle ability that channels Excalibur's prowess draining energy while making all of his melee attacks channeling (with maximum efficiency), allowing him to block from all directions, stamina on kill and removing combo counter expiration timer while active.

YES, give him this.

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

Oh boy, that's going to be nasty. DE wanted to get rid of the whole 4-spamming issue, but letting Javelin add to the combo counter would worsen this issue tenfold.

I always thought it would be pretty cool for Javelin's damage to scale from the combo counter, but not add to or refresh the counter when cast. So you can effectively "charge it up" with melee and Slash Dash before unleashing a world-shattering javelin attack.

That aside, though, Excal isn't intended to be a pure-melee frame. He's built to be an all-rounder who's good with virtually any weapon choice. Of course he should be significantly above average at melee because of this since most other frames' ability sets take only gun&blade gameplay into account (especially those who didn't have a release or revamp since U13), but the whole point of his design is that players can use him without feeling pressured into using a certain weapon type.

I have to disagree with this. DE pretty blatantly advertises Excal as a melee-focused frame, from his powers, to his very name, to even his cinematic appearances. His 1 is a pure melee power, his 2 is not only executed with his melee weapon, but it specifically provides a melee stealth bonus. His 3 gives him additional mobility and provides an initial stun for those in melee range. And his ult summons swords and is executed with a sword. All of his augments are based entirely around melee. Every cinematic trailer he appears in, he's almost always exclusively seen using a Skana or Nikana, even in the Archwing trailer he's using pure melee. His name is a legendary sword for crying out loud hahaha.

This is how Excal is described in his Wiki entry: "Excalibur is a sword-themed Warframe. With the power to channel energy into his summoned blade, he is a mobile swordsman with potent methods of execution."

Excalibur is undoubtedly supposed to be melee focused Warframe. He's not just a melee frame, he's supposed to be (or should be) the melee frame. As mentioned by the OP, the only issue is that he lacks both the survivability and the general stats to fill that role properly.

For Excal to be a viable melee frame, he needs better stats. Perhaps a bigger health pool, slightly faster running speed, more stamina. And obviously some much needed tweaks to his abilities such as the on suggested in the OP as well as some tweaks that have been suggested by other Tenno.

Edited March 29, 2015 by (PS4)ShuhanX

[KingTaro]

Jump used to be my favourite Excalibur power, but it became pretty much useless after the introduction of "aerial" melee attacks.

I mean, jump, aim up and hit melee. There you go, a Super Jump with any frame you want.

So yes, I agree that Jump needs to be replaced.

 

As for Radial Blind, for the sake of survivability, it needs to blind the enemies the moment you hit the button and not at the end of the animation, in my opinion.

[shut]

I have to disagree with this. DE pretty blatantly advertises Excal as a melee-focused frame, from his powers, to his very name, to even his cinematic appearances. His 1 is a pure melee power, his 2 is not only executed with his melee weapon, but it specifically provides a melee stealth bonus. His 3 gives him additional mobility and provides an initial stun for those in melee range. And his ult summons swords and is executed with a sword. All of his augments are based entirely around melee. Every cinematic trailer he appears in, he's almost always exclusively seen using a Skana or Nikana, even in the Archwing trailer he's using pure melee. His name is a legendary sword for crying out loud hahaha.

This is how Excal is described in his Wiki entry: "Excalibur is a sword-themed Warframe. With the power to channel energy into his summoned blade, he is a mobile swordsman with potent methods of execution."

Excalibur is undoubtedly supposed to be melee focused Warframe. He's not just a melee frame, he's supposed to be (or should be) the melee frame. As mentioned by the OP, the only issue is that he lacks both the survivability and the general stats to fill that role properly.

 

Excalibur is the "sword frame" in the same way that Mag is the "magnet frame". It's just a theme, and it's not intended to influence the player's choice of weapons or stat builds. He's designed to be easy to pick up and play for new players, just like other stock and poster-boy characters from other games (like Mario from SSB). XD

Edited March 29, 2015 by SortaRandom

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

Excalibur is the "sword frame" in the same way that Mag is the "magnet frame". It's just a theme, and it's not intended to influence the player's choice of weapons or stat builds. He's designed to be easy to pick up and play for new players, just like other stock and poster-boy characters from other games (like Mario from SSB). XD

I think you're focusing on the "Sword theme" sentence a bit too much, as the entire paragraph before it essentially invalidated your "He's only a sword themed frame, not a melee themed frame" retort. In the same description in which you highlighted the "Sword Theme" part, it also states that he is supposed to be a "mobile swordsman". A swordsman is an individual with an aptitude for melee combat. There is a mountain of evidence pointing to the fact that Excalibur was always meant to a swordsman. Every single thing about Excal shows that DE wanted him to be a melee-centric frame. His name, his "sword theme", his powers are melee based, all of his augments are melee based, his cinematic portrayals are 95% melee based, and his description blatantly describes him as a "Swordsman". He's a melee frame. Or at least, he's supposed to be.

Mario is a very poor example considering he doesn't suffer from any performance issues when compared to the other characters. Nearly any character in SSB is easy to pick up for new players, that has nothing at all to do with Mario's moveset in-game. Mario, the "starter character" is no less viable than the other non-starter characters. Excalibur hardly falls into that category. That "he's the poster boy starter frame" logic is also a very inadequate reason to justify how weak he is as a Warframe. Mag, Volt, and Loki (Loki used to be) are all "starter frames", yet none of them face the issues that Excal does. He is not the only starter frame, yet he remains the only starter frame that does not have high levels of viability. Him being one of the 3 available starter frames is in no way an excuse for having poor usability. Providing logical buffs to this frame would in no way force players into a specific play style. Giving him faster movement speed, stamina and perhaps health (or armor) wouldn't make a new player go "welp, guess I can only melee with this one".

His powers don't need to be changed entirely, they simply need to be enhanced and tweaked a bit to provide logical and useful CC and damage. In no way would these proposed changes make it more difficult for new players to learn the game. Besides, let's not pretend like Warframe is a difficult game to play, gameplay-wise lol.

It can be said that both Mag and Volt "force players into a specific play style" because of the nature of their powers. Normally in games, they'll even have multiple starter characters for the specific purpose of representing unique play styles. Many games do this, including this one. Excalibur does not need to be restricted simply because he is a "starter frame". By that logic, Mag and Volt should be nerfed into the ground as well. Whether Excal is a Sword themed or Melee themed Warframe is beside the point. The problem is that, regardless of his theme, he is noticeably lacking even when compared to the other starter frames.