Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So I just got the BP for the ripkas, and gee willikers batman! It requires dual cleavers and an ankyros to build. The problem with weapons that require 2 other weapons to build are as follows: If you don't have 2 free weapon slots, you are forced to spend plat to buy it, they come with more wait walls than a normal weapon, it costs many times more resources and credits than a regular market weapon, and finally (and frankly worst of all) they are rarely worth the effort to make. I asked a friend of mine that has them how good they were with a build that I had planned out for them (it was a crit build similar to the dual ichor) and he said that the ripkas were not only worse than the dual ichor, but they were also less dps than the dual cleavers that you use to make the damn things. DE please, STOP MAKING WEAPONS THAT REQUIRE OTHER WEAPONS unless they are significantly better than the things used to build them. And frankly, with your track record (Off the top of my head, the tipedo is the only decent thing that came out of this absolutely marvelous idea of yours) I doubt that this will be the case in 900/901 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haukai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 But why would you want them to stop, it's such a good thing, and look, it even applies to warframe now with Chroma!Use Warframe parts to make more Warframe parts, such a good idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 But why would you want them to stop, it's such a good thing, and look, it even applies to warframe now with Chroma! Use Warframe parts to make more Warframe parts, such a good idea!! Yeah, I agree. This crap needs to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 But why would you want them to stop, it's such a good thing, and look, it even applies to warframe now with Chroma! Use Warframe parts to make more Warframe parts, such a good idea!! Oh, I didnt know that since I wasn't the least bit interested in chroma, but that wounds awful. I heard that chroma's quest is like mirage's as well where you can only find the next bp after crafting a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSpite Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Hold on, I was under the impression that as long as they were BUILT at 100% they could be used to make stuff, WITHOUT the need to be placed into inventory. If that is not the case then it should be looked at. Other then that I don't see a problem. Yeah, I agree. This crap needs to stop. No one is going to lose sleep over the fact that your totally FREE stuff takes effort to build. If you dislike that so much, then use Plat to buy it. Edited March 31, 2015 by DSpite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Hold on, I was under the impression that as long as they were BUILT at 100% they could be used to make stuff, WITHOUT the need to be placed into inventory. If that is not the case then it should be looked at. Other then that I don't see a problem. You don't think sacrificing 2 weapons to make an inferior weapon is a problem? Edited March 31, 2015 by Flowen231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blasron Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am not against this, so at least newbi don't have to throw away some of the old useless weapon, BUT i am agaisnt that 2 weapon use the same one (ie the dual skana on the redeemer and AKjagara). Those need to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorrogue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You don't think sacrificing 2 weapons to make an inferior weapon is a problem? That's a problem with the balancing of the fused weapon rather then the method, and should be looked at. Personally, I'm fine as long as the final weapon isn't awful. Looking at you panthera, I want to use you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) J's Guide To Building New Weapons Step 1: Play T4 Step 2: Kill Vor Step 3: Sell Cicero Mod for 12p Step 4: Buy Weapon Slots Step 6: Build Prereq Weapons Step 7: Build New Weapon Step Did Anyone Notice I Left Out 5: Rank New Weapon To 30 Step 8: Keep New Weapon Because I'm A Hoarder.... Step 9: Enjoy The Extra Slot You Have! Edited March 31, 2015 by (PS4)jwernecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7grims Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 There is a point in your argument, the consumption of platinum and/or using few existing slots is wrong, kinda breaks with the hole ideology of this being a free to play game. Yet, this kind of methods is way better then DE keeping on pushing weapons and weapons parts trough grinding and allot of RNG walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxriot Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Step 3: Sell Cicero Mod for 12p WOAH... who's buying cicero mods for 12p... i'm lucky to even get 10p for the complete cicero set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Hold on, I was under the impression that as long as they were BUILT at 100% they could be used to make stuff, WITHOUT the need to be placed into inventory. If that is not the case then it should be looked at. Other then that I don't see a problem. No one is going to lose sleep over the fact that your totally FREE stuff takes effort to build. If you dislike that so much, then use Plat to buy it. They do need to be placed in inventory; otherwise the game will not consider you as owning that item and you won't be able to use it as a part for another. Some other problems: 1. Most of the weapons are statistical downgrades or sidegrades. 2. Most of the weapons are made of others that make no logical sense as parts. 3. Most of the weapons, when considering the other weapons as pieces, have far too heavy a resource requirement. 4. Most of the weapons, when considering the pieces, have far too long a build time requirement. 5. There is no logical progression gain from it, even if the weapons were upgrades. New players don't have the slots or resources to spend getting one upgrade when they could get another more simply. Older players don't need them. 6. The number of parts required steadily increases. First, the early ones required things that made sense--the dual weapons required two normal ones, the Dragon Nikana required its original Nikana version. Then the Tiberon (the last one that made sense) required only a Latron. Now we have weapons like AK-Jagara that require two Bolto's which themselves require a Lato each, and Chroma which requires a Volt, Saryn, Ember, and Frost part. Yet, this kind of methods is way better then DE keeping on pushing weapons and weapons parts trough grinding and allot of RNG walls. Outside of Archwing lots of RNG walls really don't happen save Primes, which are I think excluded from this conversation for now. The grinding goes up when you consider all the individual parts which people must grind for. Edited March 31, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 That's a problem with the balancing of the fused weapon rather then the method, and should be looked at. Personally, I'm fine as long as the final weapon isn't awful. Looking at you panthera, I want to use you. Yeah... theres only been 1 weapon that has been worth sacing 2 things for up to this point, no matter how you look at it, this system is flawed because DE doesn't understand the concept of "Make final result better". There is a point in your argument, the consumption of platinum and/or using few existing slots is wrong, kinda breaks with the hole ideology of this being a free to play game. Yet, this kind of methods is way better then DE keeping on pushing weapons and weapons parts trough grinding and allot of RNG walls. Unfortunately this still doesn't justify forcing the purchase of extra slots, and even though this has been put into effect, the RNG, grind walls, and waiting walls have only increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 WOAH... who's buying cicero mods for 12p... i'm lucky to even get 10p for the complete cicero set Fine sell a barrel diffusion or split chamber or whatever...12p is EASY to come up with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Fine sell a barrel diffusion or split chamber or whatever...12p is EASY to come up with... On PC those sell for 3 plat now a days. And it does not fix the problem that is; If you want a normal weapon, and have one free slot.... great. However if you want a weapon that requires 2 other weapons you're going to have to buy slots no matter what. If you have 1 free slot, you need to buy more to get it, and if you have no free slots, you need to buy 2 and (assuming this trend continues, and it likely will) the next time a new weapon comes out, you will need to buy more since you will only have 1 free slot afterwards. The idea is that you get less for more plat because you are forced to spend it more often to make progress. Being ok with that is the same as liking when someone takes advantage of you, and tbh, I'm not surprised some people are ok with that seeing how many sheep there are in this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdenagincourt Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I agree. I understand if DE needs to increase crafting requirements to balance out developer time and resources, given that they (and we) have made farming for resources pretty trivial for frequent players. But just make the weapon cost 100,000 Alloy Plate and 40 Neurodes or something. The tedium and drudgery of the pyramid that is the AkJagara's build path would put the Ancient Egyptians to shame. And then there's the fact that Panthera requires you to either give up your level 30 Miter for what is at best a sidegrade, or go to Phobos and be permanently slash-procced for the 5-10 hours it takes to farm for a weapon that requires 5 discrete RNG drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) No one is going to lose sleep over the fact that your totally FREE stuff takes effort to build. If you dislike that so much, then use Plat to buy it. I will actually lose sleep over active attempts to handicap our ways to get items for free in presumably free game, all while showing no signs of actual need to do so in order to keep game floating. Sorry only thing that actually benefits me as customer is keeping game alive, any additional profit to company(thats important) doesnt help me in any way. If instead of handicaping us, de would come and say that they need additional funding for some extra content, that will benefit me and ill gladly pay. Edited March 31, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dddeath Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 timewalls and grindwalls is how DE makes their money.. or more money I should say. wouldn't mind a solution where they would still get their dough and these walls were lowered. paying a monthly fee is of course no solution. problem is that they would never discuss the fact that they need our money. maybe there's some smart idea out there. the use other stuff to build stuff is such a thinly veiled way of saying "hope you get annoyed or don't have time... buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) timewalls and grindwalls is how DE makes their money.. or more money I should say. wouldn't mind a solution where they would still get their dough and these walls were lowered. paying a monthly fee is of course no solution. problem is that they would never discuss the fact that they need our money. maybe there's some smart idea out there. the use other stuff to build stuff is such a thinly veiled way of saying "hope you get annoyed or don't have time... buy it. That is to be expected, this is a free to play game after all. However, as far as we know, DE is not suffering through any kind of financial trouble. In fact, we can assume that DE is doing pretty well atm with the large playerbase and the fact that everyone uses plat. No matter who... someone has to buy the plat, and a free 50 (which is further limited by it's untradability) will only take you so far at the start of the game. That's not factoring in people who buy prime access, or people who just buy loads of plat in general because they just buy everything directly from the market/trade chat to skip all of the grind and waiting. The point is that DE is turning a pretty penny from this game, more so than ever before with the rapidly growing community. So the question its... why are the grind and wait walls getting worse? The answer: DE is a greedy corporation, just like any other, and they are jumping on the opportunity to cash in more (and this is just fine, it's a business, they made and keep the game up for the purpose of getting money) as new ideas to annoy the community into paying arise. The issue with this cycle is: there will come a point where people get fed up with it, and leave en mass. And when that happens, warframe will cease to be. What I'm saying is: the grind and mandatory use of plat should not grow any bigger than it is, because the formula they had been using until recently was great for the community and it worked for them, and instead of sticking to that, they are trying to annoy more money from the community at nobody's expense but the player's. Edited March 31, 2015 by Flowen231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 the wonderful part of being on a console I guess.....lol I get to build all my prereq stuff weeks in advance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I will actually lose sleep over active attempts to handicap our ways to get items for free in presumably free game, all while showing no signs of actual need to do so in order to keep game floating. Sorry only thing that actually benefits me as customer is keeping game alive, any additional profit to company(thats important) doesnt help me in any way. If instead of handicaping us, de would come and say that they need additional funding for some extra content, that will benefit me and ill gladly pay. Handicap....lol I CAN'T WAIT ONE DAY FOR THE NEW TOYS I MUST HAVE THEM NOW!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 They should make them more like the Tiberon.... the Tiberon was perfect. It retained jut enough of the Latron's feel to know it's roots, and increased its power so that you would KNOW it was a different weapon. Even aesthetically, you knew this was a Latron, and it's now something much, much more badass. The new weapons have no relation to their components in any way, and, as some say, less powerful than their component at times.The Akjagara is NOT how you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420degreequicksopeswag Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Lets not forget the tellurium needed to make ripkas.(and forma) Mastery points not gonna earn themselves people, wake up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwy5zv47HU Edited April 1, 2015 by 420degreequicksopeswag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Shiro Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Apparently this is the new trend and according to DE the player reactions were positive. They must talk with a different player community than this though since I never once found anyone who actually liked the idea - in the end all of them only accepted it tops. Well, I'm constantly losing interest just like DE simply forgetting all their content in the dust and seemingly cannot be bothered to come back and actually pay some attention them (AW is still bugged - wall kills me -, boring, drops are ridiculous - who added keys to int droptable? slap him plz -, also boring, Kubrows - and sentinels by the way, especially the sentinel weapons most of which are useless - haven't been touched upon since ages-, weapon balance not done still - not buffing/nerfing 2 weapons, it's simple math for the love of... okay I'm annoyed, sorry). Given such a good core game, so much potential and all I see is that the development goes around like some kid who wants a dog first, when he gets it he forgets to feed it since he wants a turtle now... the attention span is kinda short, yes? Also it feels like nobody over there actually plays the game. Don't they notice how annoying it is to craft this stuff? Or I guess we should pay for Everything and buy Everything with plat. Why play even? You are free to disagree - those are my impressions after all, surely biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Apparently this is the new trend and according to DE the player reactions were positive. Positive = havent completely bashed and havent threatened to stop paying. I remember when majority of forums were disappointed with melee 2.0, back then de also said that reactions were "positive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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