Trinity Is A Problem

[jjpdn]

That in itself is my point though.  High level play SHOULDN'T need Trinity, that's not good balance or design.  If Trinity is so powerful that she is needed in high-level play, then something needs to change.  The fact that "high-end" content means getting 1-shot regardless of frame (with 2-3 exceptions), then there is a problem with the balance of the game.

Agreed.

[Khranitel]

Have you done this reliably ? Again people making claims of what you CAN do not what is done most of the time. I know the buiild qt and rage and you let your health drop and use blessing bam 99 reduction only it takes a lot of energy to keep that going reliably and in end game you can still loose all your heath and enery in 1 shot. It's not a press 4 randomly to get god mode it requires exact timing and constant management of your energy which a lot of people can't do for too long at some point people are going down.

 

 

Trinity before WAS op godmode that you could recast yeah that was too much. Now it's just a healing ability that gets you more damage reduction if you can time the heal just right and run the exact right build. People keep acting like it's the same thing it's not.

Of course he don't.

Thats the same kind of people who puts Anemic Agility and no Ammo Mutation mod on Synoid Gammacor and cries like madman about it being OP, because his beloved De-Pe-eS calculator shows some ungodly numbers.

[Kruglov]

The only sane reason to nerf blessing is if somehow Pool of Life and its S#&$ty augment are suddenly made into REALLY good spells.

 

Outside of that, any nerf to blessing effectively kills Trinity. She has no nuke, no stun, and no health or shield.

Theres a reason Rage and Quick Thinking is considered a must have.

 

Removing Blessing means changing ALL of that. It means going back to square ONE and redoing ALL her stats, ALL her abilities, or else she will go right into the garbage can with excalibur and no-pilfer hydroids and become a novelty act nobody uses outside of relays.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Kruglov

[RealPandemonium]

The only sane reason to nerf blessing is if somehow Pool of Life and its S#&$ty augment are suddenly made into REALLY good spells.

 

Outside of that, any nerf to blessing effectively kills Trinity. She has no nuke, no stun, and no health or shield.

Theres a reason Rage and Quick Thinking is considered a must have.

 

Removing Blessing means changing ALL of that. It means going back to square ONE and redoing ALL her stats, ALL her abilities, or else she will go right into the garbage can with excalibur and no-pilfer hydroids and become a novelty act nobody uses outside of relays.

Trinity can kill any non-boss enemy instantly with a minimum duration build, and her Link+explosive spam is still around, albeit more annoying.  

 

Also, the last part of your post made me want to throw up a little.  This kind of unappreciative garbage attitude is why DE shouldn't bother with player feedback and has caused much misery from DE taking it to heart in their balance decisions.  

[Sakatchi]

Wait. So you think a healer frame, that we hardly ever have in groups because shes constantly nerfed Is op and the reasion why t4 is broken.

And that she should be nerfed agian for good mesure?

 

Have you even played a t4s recently?

 

I dont think you have, cause if you did, youd know that the spawn rates stupid high, things hit like trucks, nullifiers spawn in packs upwards of 5 or more, corrupted heavys and bombards love to huddle in those bubbles, and your health is an illusion.

If you went though that, youd want trin there insta healing you, because a second later you could be farted on by something and be at double digits.

 

And no, trinity is not the reasion t4 has never been balanced. Its that way cause they put prime parts in the loot tables, and they want you to work for them. Even if she got your little nerf, t4 would still be broken.

 

tl:dgoddamnr, Despite what you may think, nerfing something for your personal idea of balance, dosent magicly make things balanced.

[Ironlixivium]

Yeah, trin is actually balanced by how selfish people are, and also by how butthurt people are that she can't instantly make everyone invincible with the press of a button. No one (figuratively) wants to use trin cause you can't cause mass destruction with her. additionally, for those of us that already lvled their trin, I recently formad mine and found out that she's hell to rank up with the new(ish) abilities system. many people attempt to make her but get her to about lvl 15 then assume that she's not much better at max rank.

     Well, if that's you(the reader, not the OP), I must inform you, you are VERY wrong. Trinity makes rhino look like a twig by comparison. If used correctly, you can easily run around with max energy and link on, trolling all the enemies by ignoring all their damage (mentally ignored, not actually, as link + QT gives plenty of time to get 99% dmg resistance).She's the most selflessly tanky frame in the game (selfish would be valk, with her 1-minute invincibility).

     I don't think trinity needs any changes at all. Sure, she helps with healing and energy, but at a cost of any real combat assistance. Please don't make a big deal over her, they FINALLY move on to excal, don't encourage more trin changes. >.<

[catastrophy]

Don't get hit and you won't need a heal...

[ShortCat]

I see that the majority of the community here didn't get the intetnion of this thread.

 

THIS IS NOT A NERF THREAD! OP tried to point out one of the many balancing issues with the game. And now it led to a happy stoning feast becouse changes are undesired.

 

The problem is not the frame, it is the the enemy system that makes frames like Trin vital for end game content. EVERY FRAME should deserve a spot in every party!

[Echowing]

Wait. So you think a healer frame, that we hardly ever have in groups because shes constantly nerfed Is op and the reasion why t4 is broken.

And that she should be nerfed agian for good mesure?

 

Have you even played a t4s recently?

 

I dont think you have, cause if you did, youd know that the spawn rates stupid high, things hit like trucks, nullifiers spawn in packs upwards of 5 or more, corrupted heavys and bombards love to huddle in those bubbles, and your health is an illusion.

If you went though that, youd want trin there insta healing you, because a second later you could be farted on by something and be at double digits.

1.  My point is not that having a healer is bad.  Healing characters are fine and healthy for the game.  However, having one healer that completely overshadows every other healing ability and augment in the game is not good.  When you factor in Energy Vampire, things get even worse, as any energy conservation decisions go through the window.  Why would Volt every use his 1, when his 4 deals more damage to more enemies?  Trinity is giving him infinite energy, so energy cost isn't the answer.

 

2.The fact that "difficult" content in this game is nothing but high spawns, packs of nullifiers, and enemies that can 1-shot you is also part of my point.  These missions are poorly designed, and the only way to get through them is with a really specific team.  Trinity isn't the only thing in this game that needs changes, but personally she does need them.

[Revel72]

I see that the majority of the community here didn't get the intetnion of this thread.

 

THIS IS NOT A NERF THREAD! OP tried to point out one of the many balancing issues with the game. And now it led to a happy stoning feast becouse changes are undesired.

 

The problem is not the frame, it is the the enemy system that makes frames like Trin vital for end game content. EVERY FRAME should deserve a spot in every party!

 

Like we are not aware?... Besides... Why would you spend 100 energy to just restore shields?

[Echowing]

I see that the majority of the community here didn't get the intetnion of this thread.

 

THIS IS NOT A NERF THREAD! OP tried to point out one of the many balancing issues with the game. And now it led to a happy stoning feast becouse changes are undesired.

 

The problem is not the frame, it is the the enemy system that makes frames like Trin vital for end game content. EVERY FRAME should deserve a spot in every party!

Well, it kinda is a nerf thread.  It is true that the "difficulty" system is just bigger numbers on everything until enemies cannot be killed, which leads to specific frames being "required" for these missions.  But at the same time, having a character that is a significantly better healer than any other in the game, and can give allies a large amount of energy (which leads to it's own balance issues) isn't very healthy either.

[Aaira]

Well, it kinda is a nerf thread.  It is true that the "difficulty" system is just bigger numbers on everything until enemies cannot be killed, which leads to specific frames being "required" for these missions.  But at the same time, having a character that is a significantly better healer than any other in the game, and can give allies a large amount of energy (which leads to it's own balance issues) isn't very healthy either.

No S#&amp;&#036; she's the better healer, she's the only _dedicated_ healer.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

Isn't there only 2 Healers so far? Except if you count Health orbs from Nekros.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Well, by the logic that she deserves a nerf because she's the best in the game. I want to say Oberon deserves a buff because he's the worst healer in the game. That's literally my opinion, anyway: Renewal needs a buff. I don't get why they made his heal toggle-able, travel time, duration and Energy Eff based. I don't know how much he heals/sec. It seems really silly.

 

I'd much prefer it if it didn't drain energy/sec. Healed constantly for the duration, even if full hp, but not creating an over health. I'm okay with travel time. Heals/sec I don't know where it stands, so I have no opinion on it.

Edited April 23, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[Thaumatos]

Yes this is why a Trinity is in every team comp...

Actually the only reason it isn't is because people can complete things at random.

 

If Warframe ever went to a 100% LFG system, you'd never escape "LF Trinity" and waiting forever...

 

You'd see groups dropping if people were invited and didn't switch to their Trinity in 5 seconds...

 

Yeah if they had a purely player-only grouping system in Warframe, it'd be pretty bad.

[Aaira]

Isn't there only 2 Healers so far? Except if you count Health orbs from Nekros.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Well, by the logic that she deserves a nerf because she's the best in the game. I want to say Oberon deserves a buff because he's the worst healer in the game. That's literally my opinion, anyway: Renewal needs a buff. I don't get why they made his heal toggle-able, travel time, duration and Energy Eff based. I don't know how much he heals/sec. It seems really silly.

 

I'd much prefer it if it didn't drain energy/sec. Healed constantly for the duration, even if full hp, but not creating an over health. I'm okay with travel time. Heals/sec I don't know where it stands, so I have no opinion on it.

Oberon's not really a healer imho, he has a healing skill but that's it, that's lik saying Chroma's a healer due to whatsitcalled aura.

He's a hybrid, which is to say he's a mess, most of his abilities have 3+ different effects that range from CC to support to damage.

 

Don't think he neds a buff tbh.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Aaira

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ Thaumatos - just curious because I may be missing the point of your comments here, but are you suggesting that if Warframe was only based on players inviting other players and not random public games then nobody would ever play a game without a trinity on their team?

 

Because I think there'd be a lot of players who would run games without Trinity. And there are a lot of game modes and mission types and levels that do not require having a trinity on your team. But I could have totally mistaken your intent, so I just want to clarify.

[Thaumatos]

@ Thaumatos - just curious because I may be missing the point of your comments here, but are you suggesting that if Warframe was only based on players inviting other players and not random public games then nobody would ever play a game without a trinity on their team?

 

Because I think there'd be a lot of players who would run games without Trinity. And there are a lot of game modes and mission types and levels that do not require having a trinity on your team. But I could have totally mistaken your intent, so I just want to clarify.

Not just Trinity, there would be specific maps where only specific groups of frames/builds are made and people would be hard-pressed to find anything diverse outside of a clan/alliance group.

 

Imagine Draco only on every single mission.  Grineer Exterminate missions would be a bunch of "LF DPS Saryn".  Infested Defense missions would be flooded with "LF Speed Nova".

 

Go check out any MMO without matchmaking where players make all the invite decisions for groups.  This is exactly what would happen.

[Aaira]

Holy S#&$, it's almost as if some frames are more specialized towards certain situations in the game!

This simply cannot stand, every frame must be the same copypasted frame with exact same pros/cons and just different animations, that will sure make everyone bring every frame everywhere, and thus increase diversity!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Aaira

[Ironlixivium]

No.....please stop...not just the OP, everyone o.0 if this thread gets too popular...it could set off an unstoppable chain of events...or at least change the thread title.

[Thaumatos]

Holy S#&$, it's almost as if some frames are more specialized towards certain situations in the game!

This simply cannot stand, every frame must be the same copypasted frame with exact same pros/cons and just different animations, that will sure make everyone bring every frame everywhere, and thus increase diversity!

Difference != OP

Balance != Clone

 

Stop with the logical fallacies because you're mad that people are arguing.  You don't like the topic, obviously, so just leave.

 

No.....please stop...not just the OP, everyone o.0 if this thread gets too popular...it could set off an unstoppable chain of events...or at least change the thread title.

 

DE doesn't nerf because there was a thread called "nerf x" ... just look at the Boltor Prime.

 

(Unless you're being facetious...in which case sorry for ruining your joke.)

[Aaira]

Keyword was "specialized" but hey, who am i to expect people to understand what i write?

And if you wanted fallacies to be your monopoly, you should've just asked.

 

To be perfectly clear (because game is updating and i have time to waste) certain classes getting taken to certain mission types far more often than others does not mean the game is unbalanced, it just means that there's proper role play (as in specialization) involved.

If there's classes with no roles, on the other hand, it becomes a problem.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Aaira

[xontix627]

As a Trinity player I disapprove, Blessing is VERY hard to use in high level play. And besides, Trinity still falls off when content hits to level 50 void.

 

Simply the damage reduction is not high enough to block all damage example, 50% damage reduction from blessing. 1000 damage, it neglects only 500 points of damage.

 

Sure, you can argue that she can heal all your hp instantly but think about the cast time. Example, say that you have instantly noticed that your teammates health is dropping and FAST, you cast up blessing, but in that cast time they've been killed.

 

To me, your argument is the same as how people ranted how Rhino was OP. Trinity is "OP" for anything until a certain point, then player skill carries over, and sometimes even that is not enough.

 

TL;DR Blessing is fine, cast time is enough of a nerf to qualify it as balanced.

[Thaumatos]

Keyword was "specialized" but hey, who am i to expect people to understand what i write?

And if you wanted fallacies to be your monopoly, you should've just asked.

 

To be perfectly clear (because game is updating and i have time to waste) certain classes getting taken to certain mission types far more often than others does not mean the game is unbalanced, it just means that there's proper role play (as in specialization) involved.

If there's classes with no roles, on the other hand, it becomes a problem.

Maybe you should learn to write what you mean instead of being so angry at people properly disagreeing with you.  

 

If two classes attempt to fill the same role, and one is taken over the other consistently, that is imbalance.  There is so much you have to learn about comprehension and vocabulary...

 

Edit:

 

And just to be perfectly clear, I'm not going to pick a side on the issue.  I'm just tired of the knuckleheads trying to argue illogically.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Aaira]

If two classes attempt to fill the same role, and one is taken over the other consistently, that is imbalance.

People taking some classes over others doesn't mean either is worse than the other.

If you think 2 classes with the exact same role aren't balanced then please, feel free to post examples, o great master of logic and lawful reasoning.

 

And, uh, i'm pretty sure im not the angry one here, just a hunch

Edited April 24, 2015 by Aaira

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I miss the old days when Blessing gave invincibility rather than damage reduction.