Mag Pull Damage Nerf Ridiculous

[Pythadragon]

Before: 150 shield damage OR ~62 health damage

After: 87 shield damage OR ~27 health damage

 

It takes what, 8 instances of pull to kill a max health/max shielded frost?

 

Comparison of warframe 1 abilities (ignoring chroma/nyx)

 

                Provides Movement?    Cast while shooting?      Rooted in place while casting?         Stagger?           Range?

Excel                     Yes                                         No                                          No                                  Yes             Medium

Rhino                    Yes                                         No                                          No                                  Yes             Medium-low

Frost                      No                                          Yes                                         No                                 Slow             High

Volt                        No                                          Yes                                         No                                   No             High

Mag                       No                                          No                                          Yes                                Yes             High

 

- All 1 abilities provide aoe potential.

- All 1 abilities except for volt provide some sort of crowd control (stagger/slow)

 

- Excal and Rhino provide movement utility (and have the potential to 1 shot full health/shield players), are counterbalanced by a shorter usable range (is this really enough of a downside?)

- Frost and Volt can cast while shooting for extremely fast kills

 

Mag now has 2 unique disadvantages among the damaging 1 abilities:

1. She is rooted in place while casting (death sentence if fighting more than 1 opponent)

2. PITIFUL damage

 

Pull's ONLY redeeming quality now is the ranged stagger, yet all other 1 abilities provide a stagger or slow as well in addition to usable damage.

 

Edit because people seem to be unaware of or are ignoring this:

 

Stagger DOES NOT WORK in the following conditions:

1. target is performing melee

2. target is coptering

3. target is using an ability

4. target is rolling

 

If the target is in ANY if those animations, stagger has no effect and pull becomes useless due to lack of damage.

 

All other stagger 1 abilities are affected by this.

 

All other CC 1 abilities have damage to fallback on when their crowd control capabilities are nullified by the above.

 

Except for Mag pull.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Pythadragon

[elele]

Mag is nerfed to the ground: 

 

energy orb spawn rate drastically decreased; Pull nerfed; Lex nerfed. 

 

Mag is weak as wet noodle without energy. 

 

Well guess it's time to whip out Frost.

[.Talia.]

It seems like we have a problem on reaching a fair spot on the balance.

For example the Lex nerf, that in comparison to the Lex Prime, it have +10% damage in exchange for -50% fire rate and 2 less shots in the magazine. It was a drastic nerf from 140 damage to 85 you reduced 40% of its original damage, that's gotta be the most drastic weapon nerf ever in the game.

Too many Bo Prime topics? Make it a copter stick then those kids stop complaining.

Something is too good? Nerf it to the ground. It's either overpowered or underpowered.

Why does it have to be like that?

Edited April 24, 2015 by RexSol

[armedpoop]

You should be using mag's Pull range rather than the damage. The damage before combined with the stagger was insane. She has incredible range on it and it hits multiple targets. If used properly in a fight where shes outnumbered, you can hit everyone for the stagger. 

 

Im surprised they have yet to touch bullet attractor tho. I mean 15 seconds on an overly huge hit box? really? 

[Aggh]

Shush, tonkor is the new "skill" weapon.  Or it would be if they hadn't added arc+grenade prediction to ads :|

 

 

You should be using mag's Pull range rather than the damage. The damage before combined with the stagger was insane. She has incredible range on it and it hits multiple targets. If used properly in a fight where shes outnumbered, you can hit everyone for the stagger. 

 

Im surprised they have yet to touch bullet attractor tho. I mean 15 seconds on an overly huge hit box? really? 

Yeah, bullet attractor has always been mag's most dirty ability imo.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Aggh

[Thalahssalyst]

You should be using mag's Pull range rather than the damage. The damage before combined with the stagger was insane. She has incredible range on it and it hits multiple targets. If used properly in a fight where shes outnumbered, you can hit everyone for the stagger. 

 

Im surprised they have yet to touch bullet attractor tho. I mean 15 seconds on an overly huge hit box? really? 

This guy know what he say.

[Kanaima]

Pull is still powerful, and people will likely continue to hate it due to the stagger. Mag is still my favorite frame in PvP so far, but if people really hate the stagger/stun effects so much, I'd be fine with a change.

 

One suggestion I can think of is to remove the damage and stagger entirely, make Pull actually pull the targets toward Mag like Nyx's augmented Absorb, and drain stamina. Doesn't take control away from the enemy, just manipulates and limits their mobility for a couple seconds. The stamina drain would also cause it to retain it's function as a block breaker, which is the best part of the ability in my opinion.

[Skaleek]

Mag is still the strongest pvp frame easily, who cares how much damage pull does? you can steal enough energy to spam it on a target and keep them locked till they die, or have no energy, in which case you have all the time in the world to shoot them cause theyre staggered. Not to mention 300 overshields, and bullet attractor. I would like to see pull's augment remove stagger in lieu of the energy vamp, so you can have one or the other, both is silly.

 

P.S. Anyone else find that psychic bolts sucks @ 50 energy nuke cost?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Skaleek

[Kanaima]

P.S. Anyone else find that psychic bolts sucks @ 50 energy nuke cost?

 

I'm pretty sure I got a kill with it every time I cast it in the short amount of time that I played Nyx.

[Pythadragon]

I have not seen this discussed and have appended it to the original post.

 

Stagger DOES NOT WORK in the following conditions:

1. target is performing melee

2. target is coptering

3. target is using an ability

4. target is rolling

 

If the target is in ANY if those animations, stagger has no effect and pull becomes useless due to lack of damage.

 

All other stagger 1 abilities are affected by this.

 

All other CC 1 abilities have damage to fallback on when their crowd control capabilities are nullified by the above.

 

Except for Mag pull.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Pythadragon

[zerogear5]

pull has insane reach I think the nerf is justified 

[Aggh]

I have not seen this discussed and have appended it to the original post.

 

Stagger DOES NOT WORK in the following conditions:

1. target is performing melee

2. target is coptering

3. target is using an ability

4. target is rolling

 

If the target is in ANY if those animations, stagger has no effect and pull becomes useless due to lack of damage.

 

All other stagger 1 abilities are affected by this.

 

All other CC 1 abilities have damage to fallback on when their crowd control capabilities are nullified by the above.

 

Except for Mag pull.

Depends on the weapon.  Not all weapons have stagger immunity while attacking.  The problem is that most of the best ones do.  Also, coptering seems to mess around with the hitboxes.  I have pulled people out of the air while they're coptering, but it's not a consistent thing no matter how on target you are.

[Dawnstrider]

Pull broke PvP. You can't do anything against a Mag in close quarters. you get pulled, they shoot you while staggering. No chance to recover, apparently no way to prevent the stagger. It was an I win button

[Pythadragon]

Depends on the weapon.  Not all weapons have stagger immunity while attacking.  The problem is that most of the best ones do.  Also, coptering seems to mess around with the hitboxes.  I have pulled people out of the air while they're coptering, but it's not a consistent thing no matter how on target you are.

 

So in your own words, Stagger is mechanic that 'most' of the best melee weapons provide immunity to. It is also inconsistent.

 

In my experience, pull has 100% chance of not staggering someone while coptering. Perhaps after the animation has finished and they are continuing to travel through the air on momentum alone.

 

In conclusion, pull relies on a mechanic that is nullified by the best melee weapons and is inconsistent with no damage to fallback on. Sounds balanced.

 

Pull broke PvP. You can't do anything against a Mag in close quarters. you get pulled, they shoot you while staggering. No chance to recover, apparently no way to prevent the stagger. It was an I win button

 

Ways to prevent pull:

1. copter

2. melee

3. roll

4. use an ability

 

Close quarters abilities?

 

Slash dash and Rhino charge can instant kill a full health/full shield player.

 

Both abilities have:

1. tremendous damage

2. great damage even if the ability misses due to large hitbox.

3. stagger

4. don't punish you for missing (not rooted in place, FAST movement away from casting point)

5. are forgiving of bad aim (pull does NOTHING if you miss)

Edited April 24, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Feyangol]

The vicious circle of nerfs.

Once something strong is nerfed, something else will become strong, than people will complain about the new thing just like they did with other things and it will be nerfed again. And now you can guess: you'll find a new strong weapon after that, which will be nerfed again.

 

It happened to so much weapons and frames, now mag has to suffer (I didn't use her btw). :/

Edited April 24, 2015 by Feyangol

[oinkah]

The vicious circle of nerfs.

Once something strong is nerfed, something else will become strong, than people will complain about the new thing just like they did with other things and it will be nerfed again. And now you can guess: you'll find a new strong weapon after that, which will be nerfed again.

It happened to so much weapons and frames, now mag has to suffer (I didn't use her btw). :/

But the new thing will be not as strong as old one. Overall level of strength will decrease.

[Pythadragon]

But the new thing will be not as strong as old one. Overall level of strength will decrease.

 

Which can be a good thing, especially in pvp. For example, Slash dash and rhino charge should not be able to instant kill full health/shielded players for 25 energy.

 

This mag nerf is ridiculous in comparison.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Feyangol]

But the new thing will be not as strong as old one. Overall level of strength will decrease.

 

Which can be a good thing. Slash dash and rhino charge should not be able to instant kill full health/shielded players for 25 energy.

 

This mag nerf is just ridiculous in comparison.

It can be a good thing. But we are already at this point where a lot dmg nerfs would only be an unnecessary increase in ttk, which move the necessary changes to the future (why do people complain about high dmg abilities? because they can't do anything against them). The nerfs will continue ...

Edited April 24, 2015 by Feyangol

[Hueminator]

Buff its range then?

[Pythadragon]

It can be a good thing. But we are already at this point where a lot dmg nerfs would only be an unnecessary increase in ttk, which move the necessary changes to the future (why do people complain about high dmg abilities? because they can't do anything against them). The nerfs will continue ...

 

You're saying that nerfing instant 25 energy kill rhino charge and slash dash to not instant kill is an 'unnecessary increase in ttk'?

 

Seriously?

[Zeally]

It already recieved a range buff, that it honestly didnt need. Quite honestly, i dread coming across mags simply because ive been killed by pull/lex shots far too many times. A lot of people play her just because you can manipulate your opponent in so many ways.

I imagine a lot of mag players will shift to frost now, as his first ability is similiar, but instead applies a slow, and his ult one shots even though its slow as well.