[Melee] Rapier

[_Chaser]

 

 

original thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39699-suggestion-the-rapier/

 

well what rapiers are?

 

rapiers are piercing swords that were used to peneterate the armor that evolved into lightweight civilian weapon for duels and selfdefence.

 

why reapiers are awesome?

because rapiers are the most agile and deadly weapons ever crafted.

 

rapiers combat:

rapiers duel consisted distracting elements like slashing opponent, parries+riposites and deadly stabbing techniques, often ending up with casualties dead.

 

what kind of weapon it should be in warframe?

1) armor piercing

2) single target

3) fast

 

normal attack animation should chain stabs and downward slash animations

charged attack should be a thrust forward (see dark souls rapier anim for proper reference)

 

all thrusting swords in dark souls

 

no lock on fencing mechanics from blade symphony

 

 

bushido blades 1

http://youtu.be/WbxmcYkmmn0?t=8m57s

 

 

look at these glorious illustrations.

Edited September 11, 2013 by n7snk

[Budu]

Pfft I want lances or sword and shields :)

[Nedwin]

It's a ninja game, not The Three Musketeers

[sylothix]

It's a ninja game, not The Three Musketeers

What makes axes and hammers (Fragor) more ninja-y than rapiers?

[_Chaser]

It's a ninja game, not The Three Musketeers

so what about axes and hammers?

 

edit: ninjad

Edited May 14, 2013 by n7snk

[sylothix]

I  think rapiers are cool overall but with the prevalence of AoE in this game, I can't help but think this will be relegated to a pretty niche role.

[Maslofski]

not really the agilest and deadliest weapon, a machinepistol as also very agil and even more deadly and better range ;) but i like the idea, rhino needs a duel helmet and im happy :3

[MoonicusMaximus]

It's certainly a different flavor of weapon.

 

But those illustrations do the idea a big favor, I'll tell you what.

 

From a gameplay standpoint, it sounds like what daggers were supposed to be before they were ignored entirely.

[Nedwin]

What makes axes and hammers (Fragor) more ninja-y than rapiers?

Ok let's make then space shields and become space knights. (not Jedi) And our enemies would be space dragins

Or space Three Musketeers who fight grineer Richelieu

[xGryphus]

What makes axes and hammers (Fragor) more ninja-y than rapiers?

Well, ninjas (shinobi) originate from Japan and in consequence are using weapons of japanese origin like:

- dai tsuchi - two-handed warhammer (that would be Fragor)

- masakari - one-handed axe (that would be Zoren)

- ono - two-handed battleaxe (that would be Scindo)

- yari - spear (soon...)

[_Chaser]

Ok let's make then space shields and become space knights. (not Jedi) And our enemies would be space dragins

Or space Three Musketeers who fight grineer Richelieu

whats your problem with rapiers? it's a historicaly proven great piercing weapon. why you don't look at fencing like you look on katana techniques? foreigner factor play it's role? i bet japanise mehh about katanas and excited about rapiers.

 

surprisingly fencing is different than it shown in movies when people clash rapiers. same myth as clashing with katanas.

 

 

 

 

Well, ninjas (shinobi) originate from Japan and in consequence are using weapons of japanese origin like:

- dai tsuchi - two-handed warhammer (that would be Fragor)

- masakari - one-handed axe (that would be Zoren)

- ono - two-handed battleaxe (that would be Scindo)

- yari - spear (soon...)

what about small arms? ninjas with guns is authentic now?

Edited May 14, 2013 by n7snk

[Nedwin]

whats your problem with rapiers? it's a historicaly proven great piercing weapon. why you don't look at fencing like you look on katana techniques? foreigner factor play it's role? i bet japanise mehh about katanas and excited about rapiers.

 

surprisingly fencing is different than it shown in movies when people clash rapiers. same myth as clashing with katanas.

 

 

 

 

what about small arms? ninjas with guns is authentic now?

Because no one is $&*&*#(%& enough to attack someone with steel armor using rapier. Rapiers were effective against targets with leather/ no armor. Rapiers were effective because heavy armor couldn't save you from primitive shooting weapons.

 

No one weared heavy steel armor in time when rapier was invented - it was useless. So then cuirass was invented to protect from pistols (not rifles). But with creating new weapons cuirasses became useless too. Nothing could save you from bullets - no need in armor. This where rapiers became popular because it could pierce the whole human body with ease.

 

But not heavy armored Grineer. Or Corpus robots.

[_Chaser]

Because no one is $&*&*#(%& enough to attack someone with steel armor using rapier. Rapiers were effective against targets with leather/ no armor. Rapiers were effective because heavy armor couldn't save you from primitive shooting weapons.

 

No one weared heavy steel armor in time when rapier was invented - it was useless. So then cuirass was invented to protect from pistols (not rifles). But with creating new weapons cuirasses became useless too. Nothing could save you from bullets - no need in armor. This where rapiers became popular because it could pierce the whole human body with ease.

 

But not heavy armored Grineer. Or Corpus robots.

i do appreciate your comment but you should probably read the OP carefull.

 

 

rapiers are piercing swords that were used to peneterate the armor that evolved into lightweight civilian weapon for duels and selfdefence.

here goes wiki

 

As armour improved, so did the methods of attacking the armour. It was quickly realized that cutting weapons were losing their effectiveness, so crushing weapons such as maces and axes were utilized. But thrusting weapons that could split the rings of mail, or find the joints and crevices of plate armour, were also employed. Long tapered swords could also be used as a lance once the lance was splintered. Thus was the estoc developed. The French word estoc translates to thrust Tuck is the abbreviated English version of the word. Many consider the estoc a forerunner of the rapier, but more likely it is a merging of the espada ropera, a civilian sword, with the effective, and lighter estoc, that produced the rapier. But the estoc was an effective weapon. The long, straight blade was very rigid and could be thrust with one hand, or the second hand could be used to deliver an even more powerful thrust.

[Lilybun]

I'd love to get a strong piercing weapon with high single target damage and no reliance on charge attacks. Rapiers with neat lunges would give me just that so YES PLEASE to the suggestion!

[firequill]

As a HEMA-fan i'd love to see this happen..

Although they might not fit the fluidity of combat in general.

A rapier lacks the mass to do much but inflict crippling injuries with slashes mainly killing by stabbing, rendering the kills visually unimpressive.

unless the devs add artery spray.. (hey, it worked in american ninja, so it must be real, right?)

 

 

Offtopic:

A proper longsword wouldnt hurt either.

dissapointed with the caveman club called the Gram.

 

Example of a longsword flourish to give some idea of what using a longsword might look like.. (not me in the vid)

(by no means perfect, but gives an idea)

[Smoke39]

As a HEMA-fan i'd love to see this happen..

Although they might not fit the fluidity of combat in general.

A rapier lacks the mass to do much but inflict crippling injuries with slashes mainly killing by stabbing, rendering the kills visually unimpressive.

 

I actually think that's a good thing.  It would lend it a "clean" and "precise" aesthetic that would help it to feel unique.

 

Think about how satisfying it is to backstab enemies with stealth attacks.  Now imagine a sword that felt like that in actual, head-on combat.  Sounds pretty appealing to me. :>

[SkyllianBlitz]

A couple of things.

 

1. It's a bit of a waste of resources to produce a whole set of animations for only one weapon. You're going to need to to come up with a whole set of weapons with a common unique feature and enough variation to warrant the effort,

 

2. You're competing with other weapon ideas which are much more unique and interesting than "precision sword".

 

Sell me on this concept. The whole package of animation, unique feature/damage mechanic, and why it deserves to made over polearms, kurisagamas, etc.

[Torguish]

It's a ninja game, not The Three Musketeers

No. It's not.

And +1, Rapier could be awesome :) but you should develop the idea further.

[RiotKitten]

Ok like legit. Imagine a thrusting rapier but to balance out the lower damage, the rappers would be a super fast hitting weapon or a multiple hitting weapon. This would be amazing I can even describe what I am thing right now but this would be absolutely amazing. And the DarkSouls referencing helps to visualize it

[ValhaHazred]

Because no one is $&*&*#(%& enough to attack someone with steel armor using rapier. Rapiers were effective against targets with leather/ no armor. Rapiers were effective because heavy armor couldn't save you from primitive shooting weapons.

 

No one weared heavy steel armor in time when rapier was invented - it was useless. So then cuirass was invented to protect from pistols (not rifles). But with creating new weapons cuirasses became useless too. Nothing could save you from bullets - no need in armor. This where rapiers became popular because it could pierce the whole human body with ease.

 

But not heavy armored Grineer. Or Corpus robots.

 

Yeah, and katanas can totally cut through tanks right? (sarcasm)

[_Chaser]

peircing weapons that were designed to peneterate armor surely don't peneterate it. but katanas that were designed to cut against unarmored targets surely peneterate armor. /sarcasm aswell

Edited May 16, 2013 by n7snk

[Slama]

As a HEMA-fan i'd love to see this happen..

Although they might not fit the fluidity of combat in general.

A rapier lacks the mass to do much but inflict crippling injuries with slashes mainly killing by stabbing, rendering the kills visually unimpressive.

unless the devs add artery spray.. (hey, it worked in american ninja, so it must be real, right?)

 

 

Offtopic:

A proper longsword wouldnt hurt either.

dissapointed with the caveman club called the Gram.

 

Example of a longsword flourish to give some idea of what using a longsword might look like.. (not me in the vid)

(by no means perfect, but gives an idea)

 

I love the idea of both the rapier and the longsword. I think that both could add another set of interesting animations and gameplay possibilities. 

 

Also, as long as the weapon is viable and desired, a unique set of animations should not be a problem. The glaive is a good example, it is both viable and desired and so was worth the effort needed to make a new set of animations. No one is suggesting eliminating the spear/polearm in favor of the rapier, just potentially adding another element to the game.

[_Chaser]

rapiers are surely more original in games compared to katanas

[Tsualla]

Not a bad idea. It does seem original. But I kinda agree, that rapier animation is hardly usable for any other weapon.

 

I would prefer more like a semi ranged melee, like bladed whip/chained morning star/ Kusarigama that might share the same swinging animation that's more efficient (though I know, this might not fit with the lore/background) :(

[Dasmir]

+1 rapier for Saryn !

 

 

peircing weapons that were designed to peneterate armor surely don't peneterate it. but katanas that were designed to cut against unarmored targets surely peneterate armor. /sarcasm aswell

 

But.. the only "katana" who can do that are the dual ethers..

Edited May 16, 2013 by Dasmir