The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[DaedricToast666]

That is just the most simple explanation people can think of but there is a lot more against the energy theory than just blood and other basic bodily needs.

Yeah I know I was just messing around. :D

About the legitmate counter-arguments, they were thought out and well said and I even patched the holes in my old theory because of those good counter arguments. It lead to the avatar theory I posted earlier on.

[EmptyDevil]

Yeah, like all the food and water Tenno consume. Oh... wait...

 

No one mentioned food or water but the other major thing to consider is that we require oxygen.

[roaddogz]

No one mentioned food or water but the other major thing to consider is that we require oxygen.

The frame requires oxygen.

[CriticalFumble]

The frame requires oxygen.

Seeing as we have yet to separate the frame from its contents, its pretty hard to prove which one needs the O2. 

[EmptyDevil]

The frame requires oxygen.

 

Why would it need oxygen though? Oxygen is needed to produce energy to live. If Tenno are energy beings then there is absolutely no need for the Warframe suit to require oxygen for it's power since the Tenno is providing it. I'd probably accept that the Warframe might need oxygen without a Tenno piloting it since there is an absence of energy. However i imagine Warframes to be similar to a highly advance tardigrade/waterbear in that it can survive without oxygen and such for awhile.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

The frame requires oxygen.

Nope, that's we the Tenno whom need oxygen.

[roaddogz]

Why would it need oxygen though? Oxygen is needed to produce energy to live. If Tenno are energy beings then there is absolutely no need for the Warframe suit to require oxygen for it's power since the Tenno is providing it. I'd probably accept that the Warframe might need oxygen without a Tenno piloting it since there is an absence of energy. However i imagine Warframes to be similar to a highly advance tardigrade/waterbear in that it can survive without oxygen and such for awhile.

 

Nope, that's we the Tenno whom need oxygen.

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, just read my previous replies because to me it seems like we're running in circle.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, just read my previous replies because to me it seems like we're running in circle.

Then stop replying. This is the 'why the Tenno are energy theory is busted' thread, not the 'it's busted but I still try to defend it' thread.

[roaddogz]

Then stop replying. This is the 'why the Tenno are energy theory is busted' thread, not the 'it's busted but I still try to defend it' thread.

We proved over and over why it wasn't "busted" but whatever, goodbye. 

[DaedricToast666]

Like roaddogz said you didn't provide any solid points as to why the energy theory is invalid. Some of the posts by others were well thought out and provided but I think the OP was rather closeminded. Thank you for the fun, I enjoyed some theory crafting with you guys.

Edited May 1, 2015 by DaedricToast666

[Jakcal]

The frame requires oxygen.

Did you seriously just say that...

[Bigbizz44]

Did you seriously just say that...

It has already been discussed that the frame itself is some type of organic, otherwise it wouldn't be a viable weapon against the sentients, nor could you fit enough 'low-tech' parts to fulfill the ability to manipulate void energy into such a handy suit.  So it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that a biological based suit would require oxygen to metabolize for energy.

[Jakcal]

It has already been discussed that the frame itself is some type of organic, otherwise it wouldn't be a viable weapon against the sentients, nor could you fit enough 'low-tech' parts to fulfill the ability to manipulate void energy into such a handy suit. So it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that a biological based suit would require oxygen to metabolize for energy.

But which is more likely, we need oxygen or the suit does? We already know we use energy cells.

To build the frame.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Jakcal

[Bigbizz44]

But which is more likely, we need oxygen or the suit does? We already know we use energy cells.

To build the frame.

it doesn't matter on "what's more likely".  The suit is of a biological nature, independent on what the Tenno itself is, thus the suit would require oxygen to metabolize as well.  It clearly can't be mechanical, since that would open it up to sentient attacks, which clearly wasn't the case due to the suit's design.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Bigbizz44

[VoidNomade]

But which is more likely, we need oxygen or the suit does? We already know we use energy cells.

To build the frame.

 

Ockhams Razor - i like that

[SilverBones]

It would be worth reading into other discussions around this subject before trying to completely debunk an opposing theorum.

 

Two words: Biomechanical Constructs.

 

Energy possessing biological machines which yes, could possess a mouth. Why not.

[Jakcal]

it doesn't matter on "what's more likely". The suit is of a biological nature, independent on what the Tenno itself is, thus the suit would require oxygen to metabolize as well. It clearly can't be mechanical, since that would open it up to sentient attacks, which clearly wasn't the case due to the suit's design.

But why? For all we know, everything we do is part of someones dreams but it's more likely that it isn't.

Besides if the Tenno use completely Technocyte suits, we've seen plenty of things to show that the infested have no need for oxygen.

Also, our suit is most likely not 100% flesh based considering we have shields, and half of our building requirements are metal or tech based (Circuits and alloys).

[Bigbizz44]

But why? For all we know, everything we do is part of someones dreams but it's more likely that it isn't.

Besides if the Tenno use completely Technocyte suits, we've seen plenty of things to show that the infested have no need for oxygen.

Also, our suit is most likely not 100% flesh based considering we have shields, and half of our building requirements are metal or tech based (Circuits and alloys).

Unless you start pointing out definitive proof that the infested don't use any kind of metabolism there is still a need for something to power the metabolic process, and there ARE organisms that metabolize without oxygen.  I can only assume that the Orokin developed the WF to accept oxygen, since it would be available wherever their soldiers were anyway.  It's either that or it's not the lack of oxygen that starts to kill of the WF, but some kind of harmful airborne chemical, toxic spores and CO/CO2 buildup comes to mind.

 

also remember that the Orokin were smart people, so it's not farfetched to assume that they could coax the technocyte to operate a kind of biological shield generator.  why wouldn't normal infested use a shield? because it would be inefficient to produce such an organ for how many infested there are when they could just grow armor.  But for such a limited number of Tenno one may assume that the Orokin developed such a shield generator to further enhance the lifetime a WF may have.  The infested don't really care about looks, but the Orokin did (hence all the gold and stuff).

 

Alloys are hardly technology dependent once produced to be susceptible to sentient attacks.  But as far as circuits go you have a point there.  But that just leads to another question about how the foundry uses these materials in the construction of weapons.  Such as why does a grakata require a neurode to build?  it's completely ridiculous to assume that a neurode would be just attached to one of the most basic and mass produced weapons in the WF universe.  Dagger axe skin? it's just an axe, so why does it need circuits? but I suppose there's a perfectly reasonable sci-fi reason for all of those holes, or it might just be a game mechanic.

[VoidNomade]

In EVERY lore piece the warframe/hull is considered as "steel"/metal not as living organism. So the theory of that the warframe needs oxygen is a very very far stretched theory. Not impossible though - just unreasonable considering the information basis we have available.

[Kaotyke]

Read in this order:

Three figures waited behind a simple table. Their attention on a single chair, bathed in light. An old woman's voice from the shadow: 'Send her in'. Across the room a security officer, stern and plain, opened the door. The outline of a young woman appeared at the door. She hesitated, but only for an instant, then crossed the room and sat.

There was a gasp as the light hit her face. Her right eye was bright and blinking, but her left was a greasy slit. Her skin had been burned moon-white. Her mouth was a sagging gash without lips or expression. Her military beret was pulled snug over a scarred and hairless scalp.

The old voice: 'Your name is Kaleen.' Kaleen nodded. 'You were the principal investigator of the Zariman?' Kaleen's voice was a jagged whisper, a rigid face. 'Yes.'

Kaleen coughed, straightened: 'The Zariman was lost making the fold from Saturn to the Outer gates. Mechanical failure. I notified families and filled a report with the inspectors. Nothing ever returns from the fold, so I closed the case.'

'But you reopened the case, days later.'

'I didn't believe it myself until I stepped aboard the ship. It was completely intact, full environmental, as if it had never left.'

'And the crew was gone.'

'Not exactly.' Kaleen hesitated. 'We thought it was empty but we began to find...' Her face twitched at remembered pain, 'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'

'And that is when you violated procedure?'

Kaleen bowed her head, a tear welling in her sightless eye. 'They were children. They were afraid. They needed comfort.'

'So you broke quarantine and this happened to you.'

There was silence as Kaleen touched her face, 'So what have you done with them?'

The old woman gestured for the officer to take Kaleen away. The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'

Red lights flashing on stark, white walls. Davis is running ahead of me, dropping his notes. We're running for our lives. The fear gives me a strange perspective - I'm out of my body. I've forgotten how I got here. I don't recognize this place.

Davis and I slam pinned against a cell door and he shouts at me. I give him a dumb look. I can't hear him, the sirens, anything, only the muffled throb of terror in my head. I turn away from Davis down the hall and I see it. The hulking mass, flickering red, glinting like steel and fresh blood. Its skin changes, flowing like mercury when I'm blinded by the sudden muzzle-flashes. They do no good. The beast surges forward and the security men become crimson mist and gore.

I'm a statue, a cornered animal. A gate opens inside me and recognition floods in. I have seen this monster before. I have cut its shell and eviscerated its brothers. I have given it pain and measured its response. I have crafted then rejected countless like it. But I've never seen this beast so close, without the shield, without restraints. I have never seen it... free.

I know I will die so I just watch with curious acceptance. The beast squats down, shovelling a heap of gore into its mouth. It is watching me with vague eyes, a sense of recognition, ancestral memory. It knows who I am and what I've done. It rears up like a bear and roars, shattering the lights and casting us into darkness. I can hear it lumbering toward me, its metal fingers rending the walls, but I know I am dead. I close my eyes and stand ready to pay.

I feel the pull on my arm and realize Davis got the cell open. He tugs me into the cell beyond and I fall on my back. I see Davis standing at the open door, waiting, as the monster tears towards us.

Suddenly I could live through this I shout, "Davis, close the goddamn door!" - But he shakes his head eyes wide as moons. He shouts, "Watch!" over the roaring and rending of metal.

Then silence. Davis is panting, laughing? The beast fills the doorway, inches from him, dripping in blood, but still without violence. It stands there, looking at its hands. Davis whispers, "No one would have believed me."

I crawl up the wall to stand, opposite the door. I've never seen this cell, a cold place with an array of shelves. A morgue? "Where are we, Davis?"

"This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." I'm thrown, what was the Zariman? The ship that never returned? "Davis, what's going on?"

Davis turns to me, a smile forming - "What's going on is..." he turns back to the beast now silent and calm.

"...big, fat promotions."

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

[Jakcal]

Unless you start pointing out definitive proof that the infested don't use any kind of metabolism there is still a need for something to power the metabolic process, and there ARE organisms that metabolize without oxygen. I can only assume that the Orokin developed the WF to accept oxygen, since it would be available wherever their soldiers were anyway. It's either that or it's not the lack of oxygen that starts to kill of the WF, but some kind of harmful airborne chemical, toxic spores and CO/CO2 buildup comes to mind.

also remember that the Orokin were smart people, so it's not farfetched to assume that they could coax the technocyte to operate a kind of biological shield generator. why wouldn't normal infested use a shield? because it would be inefficient to produce such an organ for how many infested there are when they could just grow armor. But for such a limited number of Tenno one may assume that the Orokin developed such a shield generator to further enhance the lifetime a WF may have. The infested don't really care about looks, but the Orokin did (hence all the gold and stuff).

Alloys are hardly technology dependent once produced to be susceptible to sentient attacks. But as far as circuits go you have a point there. But that just leads to another question about how the foundry uses these materials in the construction of weapons. Such as why does a grakata require a neurode to build? it's completely ridiculous to assume that a neurode would be just attached to one of the most basic and mass produced weapons in the WF universe. Dagger axe skin? it's just an axe, so why does it need circuits? but I suppose there's a perfectly reasonable sci-fi reason for all of those holes, or it might just be a game mechanic.

Here's what we know. Infested do not require oxygen. Tenno need oxygen. 2+2=4

We also know that infested are most likely likely dead therefore don't need metabolism. They are also made from nanites manipulating flesh. Nanites don't need oxygen (their also most likely technological)

The entire point of survival is that the enemy has shut off life support. That's why we don't have survival on Earth anymore.

Not because of a toxic build up that slowly kills us, but releasing oxygen can remove that toxic build up.

Unless the magnetic fields in Warframe are different, it's unlikely they sould effect a biological organ.

I was using alloys as an example that frames are not completely biological in origin, but you do make a fair point about the building requirements.

However, we still have systems unless you want to say it's like a nervous system, even though that wouldn't make any sense.

[ArcariusAero]

it doesn't matter on "what's more likely".  The suit is of a biological nature, independent on what the Tenno itself is, thus the suit would require oxygen to metabolize as well.  It clearly can't be mechanical, since that would open it up to sentient attacks, which clearly wasn't the case due to the suit's design.

It can be mechanical- guns are mechanical but yet they were effective against Sentients.

[Bigbizz44]

Here's what we know. Infested do not require oxygen. Tenno need oxygen. 2+2=4

We also know that infested are most likely likely dead therefore don't need metabolism. They are also made from nanites manipulating flesh. Nanites don't need oxygen (their also most likely technological)

The entire point of survival is that the enemy has shut off life support. That's why we don't have survival on Earth anymore.

Not because of a toxic build up that slowly kills us, but releasing oxygen can remove that toxic build up.

Unless the magnetic fields in Warframe are different, it's unlikely they sould effect a biological organ.

I was using alloys as an example that frames are not completely biological in origin, but you do make a fair point about the building requirements.

However, we still have systems unless you want to say it's like a nervous system, even though that wouldn't make any sense.

I believe this is where my argument has to end, because at this point we're getting into the very fine details that DE has refused to release to us, and thus only assumptions can be made.  I don't have any clue on what's specifically inside the WF that makes it work.  The only clue I really have is that they're somehow connected to the infested, and that they had to be developed in such a way as to be unaffected to sentient attacks.  This can include steel, alloys, possible basic circuits, and biological materials.  I say that the WF is mostly biological due to rhino codex, where the beast is clearly of a biological nature, is not a Tenno, and displays crude WF powers.  I hold onto my hypothesis because it explains some very crucial details that must be explained for the integrity of the lore, and those details seem to refer to VERY complex mechanics for explanation, rather than simple ones.

 

but there are a few things:

Birds are believed to have a sort of built-in compass, and as everyone knows a magnetic field will definitely affect that.  Plus when the human brain is subject to a magnetic field in a very specific part of the brain then people stutter when they talk.  SO, it is very possible for magnets to interfere with organisms in our own universe.

 

as far as systems are concerned.

Systems: a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.

this could literally mean anything you can possibly imagine, whether it be an electrical or neural network, and since DE still has all the goodies there isn't any hard evidence suggesting anything, only weak evidence and speculation.

 

edit:

-It can be mechanical- guns are mechanical but yet they were effective against Sentients.

 

No, a warframe really couldn't be completely mechanical, because that would require electricity and computers to ensure that the warframe could focus the void energy into an ability, and that would break lore as that technology was turned against the Orokin by the sentients, and the Tenno were VERY effective if I recall correctly.  A gun cannot create fire from nothing, it requires fuel for that, and from what I've seen ember doesn't carry around large tanks of napalm, nor is the warframe suit as large as a factor just to fit all the mechanical parts to allow such a process to happen (that is unless you're suggesting a Tardis theory, which would run into some of the same problem against sentient attacks as the previous).

Edited May 1, 2015 by Bigbizz44

[Jakcal]

I believe this is where my argument has to end, because at this point we're getting into the very fine details that DE has refused to release to us, and thus only assumptions can be made.  I don't have any clue on what's specifically inside the WF that makes it work.  The only clue I really have is that they're somehow connected to the infested, and that they had to be developed in such a way as to be unaffected to sentient attacks.  This can include steel, alloys, possible basic circuits, and biological materials.  I say that the WF is mostly biological due to rhino codex, where the beast is clearly of a biological nature, is not a Tenno, and displays crude WF powers.  I hold onto my hypothesis because it explains some very crucial details that must be explained for the integrity of the lore, and those details seem to refer to VERY complex mechanics for explanation, rather than simple ones.

 

but there are a few things:

Birds are believed to have a sort of built-in compass, and as everyone knows a magnetic field will definitely affect that.  Plus when the human brain is subject to a magnetic field in a very specific part of the brain then people stutter when they talk.  SO, it is very possible for magnets to interfere with organisms in our own universe.

 

as far as systems are concerned.

Systems: a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.

this could literally mean anything you can possibly imagine, whether it be an electrical or neural network, and since DE still has all the goodies there isn't any hard evidence suggesting anything, only weak evidence and speculation.

 

edit:

-It can be mechanical- guns are mechanical but yet they were effective against Sentients.

 

No, a warframe really couldn't be completely mechanical, because that would require electricity and computers to ensure that the warframe could focus the void energy into an ability, and that would break lore as that technology was turned against the Orokin by the sentients, and the Tenno were VERY effective if I recall correctly.  A gun cannot create fire from nothing, it requires fuel for that, and from what I've seen ember doesn't carry around large tanks of napalm, nor is the warframe suit as large as a factor just to fit all the mechanical parts to allow such a process to happen (that is unless you're suggesting a Tardis theory, which would run into some of the same problem against sentient attacks as the previous).

How do you know that the Rhino Codex was talking about the frame? Why would it be talking about the frame?

 

Yeah, I honostly think the suits are related to the infested though, but like I said before, the infested are not just zombies, they have nanites in them, which I think is technology. I would guess void shenanigans messing with the Sentients.

 

Wow lol, how could I have forgotten about bird migration. Never heard of magnetism affecting us though, I remember reading an article talking about a russian radioactive gun that did that though.

 

However undeniable that we do have technology in our frames. You've been doing some speculating about oxygen and how it affects frames.

 

Actually, Ordis has Tardis theory.

[Bigbizz44]

-snip-

uh yeah here's a vid where they use a powerful magnet to affect a person's brain.  there's others like it but that's the one that came immediately to mind.

 

but i'm still not convinced that the Orokin relied heavily on non-biological technology in the WF, since most of their technology would be victim to sentient attacks. and sentient attack shielding during that time (i think in chroma quest there was something done) doesn't make sense either since that would invalidate the necessity of the Tenno to win the war.

 

As far as the rhino codex, none of the other prime codex's have ever NOT talked about the tenno in some way, and considering how the beast can't really be considered a Tenno, it DOES resembled a proto-rhino frame through a few details.

 

as far as Ordis-Tardis theory i thought that was debunked through that extra ship that ordis connects to.  But the Tardis I was refering to was how to fit a big guy like rhino into a skinny frame like nekros, hence the Tardis theory.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Bigbizz44