The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

-snip-

I seriously doubt 'Tenno' is a rank. I see it as a form of human, like the Orokin, whom from what we can tell, were some kind of humans, with an obsession of gold.

[Soju.]

I wouldn't say the theory is COMPLETELY busted. I think it's possible that most tenno are physical form, but some are energy.

How else do you explain things like Limbo's head, and one of Frost's Althelms (I can't remember what it's called, but it has a fan in the top of it. A fan that goes down into where your brain would freakin' be if you were wearing that helmet).

 

I mean when he takes off the hat. That bit of head? That is NOT enough space for a human head in there.

 

Did you forget Limbo's theme? 

"Tapping into the Void, Limbo demonstrates his art of dimensional travel that disrupts the very fabrics of space itself"

"Limbo manipulates the very planes of existence to divide his enemies and conquer them in the rift."

"Don't blink, Tenno, Limbo is nowhere, yet everywhere."

 

He could have just "move" his head somewhere else for all I think of.

[ENIAK_Prime]

Did you forget Limbo's theme? 

"Tapping into the Void, Limbo demonstrates his art of dimensional travel that disrupts the very fabrics of space itself"

"Limbo manipulates the very planes of existence to divide his enemies and conquer them in the rift."

"Don't blink, Tenno, Limbo is nowhere, yet everywhere."

 

He could have just "move" his head somewhere else for all I think of.

That would be incredibly badass.

[Soju.]

Based on Morec0 (or someone's else I couldn't recall) about our bodies being somewhere else theory.

 

What if. What if. The humanoid figures we protect in those Warframe cryopods in defense missions, are ours?

 

Not saying I agree, it's just to put more questions to questions, because I'm a #$&(%. >_>

Edited August 3, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Based on Morec0 (or someone's else I couldn't recall) about our bodies being somewhere else theory.

 

What if. What if. The humanoid figures we protect in those Warframe cryopods in defense missions, are ours?

 

Not saying I agree, it's just to put more questions to questions, because I'm a #$&(%. >_>

Don't we get out of a cryopod in the tutorial, as a Warframe?

[Morec0]

Based on Morec0 (or someone's else I couldn't recall) about our bodies being somewhere else theory.

 

What if. What if. The humanoid figures we protect in those Warframe cryopods in defense missions, are ours?

 

Not saying I agree, it's just to put more questions to questions, because I'm a #$&(%. >_>

 

I don't think that theory's accurate at all, I've seen it before and I can't see it making sense. How does it work? Are we psychically projecting our minds? If so, then why would Lotus be so worried about losing the Tenno in the tutorial? Just send them back to their body and leave the Warframe without the Tenno Vor's after.

[arch111]

When the Tenno is bonded to the warframe it can be killed. Technically we have all lost a host of Tenno by having no Revives and being thrown back to the Liset.

This is not Dark Souls so we get new chances. And we play as One Tenno, the Operator. We control and pilot them.

The only thing remotely supporting a "remote-control" theory is Ordis.

I will keep the Orbiter hidden in the Void. Maintain the habitat. Mobolise the Tenno.

That MIGHT suggest the Operator being in the Void in the Orbiter. But we have never seen it.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I will keep the Orbiter hidden in the Void. Maintain the habitat. Mobolise the Tenno.

That MIGHT suggest the Operator being in the Void in the Orbiter. But we have never seen it.

The Orbiter is that part of the Liset with Foundry, mods, etc. which we can enter while orbiting any planet, it's not always in the Void. I'm just assuming the Void is where it goes when we head out on a mission, like how Optimus Prime's trailer detaches and disappears when he transforms in G1 :D

 

Also, those quotes do not suggest that theory at all.

[Morec0]

When the Tenno is bonded to the warframe it can be killed. Technically we have all lost a host of Tenno by having no Revives and being thrown back to the Liset.

This is not Dark Souls so we get new chances. And we play as One Tenno, the Operator. We control and pilot them.

The only thing remotely supporting a "remote-control" theory is Ordis.

I will keep the Orbiter hidden in the Void. Maintain the habitat. Mobolise the Tenno.

That MIGHT suggest the Operator being in the Void in the Orbiter. But we have never seen it.

 

Aye, but much like the "snake? snake?! SNAAAKE!" line in MGS those deaths are likely not canon - at least from a story perspective. Game overs rarely are canon.

 

Honestly, though "Orbiter" and "habitat" quotes don't really support anything. The Orbiter's the whole of the ship we use - as soon as the bloody thing gets updated (looking at you DE!) - and the little compartment we go into is identified as such during the tutorial the first time we see it. As for "maintain the habitat" - its a spaceship, OF COURSE you have to maintain the habitat.

[Coryphaus]

A majority of this thread has examples.

 

None of which are ever directly stated or mentioned in the game.

[arch111]

Yep. Hence the MIGHT part.

But the Orbiter I thought was that huge ship/station we saw concepts of. The Liset is the mission-ship.

If you suggest we are actually in the Orbiter when we go down the basement, then is Ordis really THAT screwed up that he talks nonsense about the Void?

Or is the ship between missions actually IN the void; invisible to the ships around us? I guess I can buy that.

[arch111]

None of which are ever directly stated or mentioned in the game.

You mean that the warframe bleeds, have stances, are built by using living tissues? That sort of thing?

[Coryphaus]

You mean that the warframe bleeds, have stances, are built by using living tissues? That sort of thing?

 

Yes man, where does the game say the Warframes - the suits themselves - are "alive".

[Morec0]

Yep. Hence the MIGHT part.

But the Orbiter I thought was that huge ship/station we saw concepts of. The Liset is the mission-ship.

If you suggest we are actually in the Orbiter when we go down the basement, then is Ordis really THAT screwed up that he talks nonsense about the Void?

Or is the ship between missions actually IN the void; invisible to the ships around us? I guess I can buy that.

 

It is. DE's just not been quick in updating it to something resembling of it.

 

The lower compartment isn't part of our ship, though. Where on earth would it be if it was? Ship's not big enough.

 

It's pretty clearly meant to be that as it is anyway: https://youtu.be/mlQPld2Ejnw?t=14m50s

 

As for the status of our ship/Orbiter inbetween missions, quite possibly we're still too small to be noticed by the galleons and the like. It's like you trying to spot a gnat from across the room. And sensors are likely weirded up due to that Void Shadow technology that is used to address us and our Liset.

 

It IS a Stealth ship (not a combat pod).

 

Yes man, where does the game say the Warframes - the suits themselves - are "alive".

 

I argue in the Rhino Prime Codex. Doesn't say it, but there's evidence towards it.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Morec0

[Coryphaus]

What is the "evidence"?

 

______

 

I just did a check.

 

Plastids, "A disgusting nanite infested tissue mass" is used to craft the Systems components of many warframes.

 

Mutagen Masses, living masses that can "produce weaponized toxins for weaponry" is not used to create any warframes.

 

Nano spores, "Fibrous technocyte tumor. Handle Infested tissue with caution." is used only to craft Chroma Chassis.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus

[Morec0]

What is the "evidence"?

 

The fact the narrator had no idea the Zariman had even returned, despite working on "countless" like the creature - suggesting that it and the "ones from the Zariman" had different origins, were different projects that, after this, were combined.

 

The fact that the creature used very-Rhino like abilities and only used Rhino-like abilities, fitting with the idea that it is the Warframes that focus the Tenno's void energy through them (as stated by Vor) rather than the Tenno having the power themselves.

 

And Lephantis' line "we are your flesh", which along with the fact Lotus is able to tell us that it was a creature first developed to fight in the old war would start to suggest, when taking into account the above, would suggest that the Warframes have some kind of link to the Infested's Technocyte.

[Coryphaus]

The fact the narrator had no idea the Zariman had even returned, despite working on "countless" like the creature - suggesting that it and the "ones from the Zariman" had different origins, were different projects that, after this, were combined.

 

The fact that the creature used very-Rhino like abilities and only used Rhino-like abilities, fitting with the idea that it is the Warframes that focus the Tenno's void energy through them (as stated by Vor) rather than the Tenno having the power themselves.

 

And Lephantis' line "we are your flesh", which along with the fact Lotus is able to tell us that it was a creature first developed to fight in the old war would start to suggest, when taking into account the above, would suggest that the Warframes have some kind of link to the Infested's Technocyte.

 

1. This is not "evidence". Evidence must be conclusive or it is not "evidence". Lack of knowledge of the Zariman only suggests that the researcher had not made the connection between his subjects and survivors of the Zariman that he did not know of.

 

2. Would it make sense for the creature to not use Rhino-like abilities, considering the tale appeared in the Rhino Prime codex?

 

3. Lephantis is referring to human flesh.

[Morec0]

1. This is not "evidence". Evidence must be conclusive or it is not "evidence". Lack of knowledge of the Zariman only suggests that the researcher had not made the connection between his subjects and survivors of the Zariman that he did not know of.

 

2. Would it make sense for the creature to not use Rhino-like abilities, considering the tale appeared in the Rhino Prime codex?

 

3. Lephantis is referring to human flesh.

 

1. It is evidence in the sense that it's there can inferences can be drawn from what is presented - much as is done with archaeology of paleontology - and until newer evidence comes along that shakes it...

 

2. If it was meant to be a Tenno, whose powers differ based on the Warframes they're in, then yes. But the Tenno came from the Zariman, and the narrator had no idea about them despite his "countless"-worth of creature experimentation.

 

You can claim "Orokin secrecy" as you want, but the timeframe we're offered - enough that the narrator could work on "countless" like it - is a bit insane, especially given that the narrator not ONLY was working in the same facility as where these children were being housed but the "corpus" system of family-like units we've seen the Orokin's society operate under - i.e. in the Crewman synth - would make it even harder to hide that kind of information; too many people with close relationship connections to one another.

 

3. Plausibly, but then it would have had many things that are very much like it constantly trying to kill it for a while - the Grineer were there quite a while before us, after all. You think it would have wised up to that. Not to mention there's also the quote "consume us, be reborn" - almost suggesting as though the Lephantis would be expecting the Tenno (or, perhaps, the Warframes it can actually see) to 

[Coryphaus]

1. Using the word "evidence" so loosely like you have done would get you laughed out of every archaeology and paleontology classroom and lecture, and judges will throw your cases out of the courtroom. Evidence must be conclusive in order to be evidence. If it means something only within your own head, that is not "evidence".

 

2 a) You have no time frame. You have an imagined one, but as to a real one: You have no discrete span of time and you have no clue as to the order of things occurring.

b) You don't have to know where your lab rats come from to continue your research on them. There is no link between the lack of knowledge of the Zariman and the warframes being alive and autonomous of the wearer.

c) Your claim about secrecy and their working environment is entirely your "head-canon" and what you presume to be true. However it is unsupported by any statement or reference in the entire game. See 2a i.e your lack of a real time frame.

 

3. Nothing you have written about Lephantis's words supports your argument or refutes mine. I am at a loss as to what you are even trying to say.

 

1. It is evidence in the sense that it's there can inferences can be drawn from what is presented - much as is done with archaeology of paleontology - and until newer evidence comes along that shakes it...

 

2. If it was meant to be a Tenno, whose powers differ based on the Warframes they're in, then yes. But the Tenno came from the Zariman, and the narrator had no idea about them despite his "countless"-worth of creature experimentation.

 

You can claim "Orokin secrecy" as you want, but the timeframe we're offered - enough that the narrator could work on "countless" like it - is a bit insane, especially given that the narrator not ONLY was working in the same facility as where these children were being housed but the "corpus" system of family-like units we've seen the Orokin's society operate under - i.e. in the Crewman synth - would make it even harder to hide that kind of information; too many people with close relationship connections to one another.

 

3. Plausibly, but then it would have had many things that are very much like it constantly trying to kill it for a while - the Grineer were there quite a while before us, after all. You think it would have wised up to that. Not to mention there's also the quote "consume us, be reborn" - almost suggesting as though the Lephantis would be expecting the Tenno (or, perhaps, the Warframes it can actually see) to 

[Morec0]

1. Using the word "evidence" so loosely like you have done would get you laughed out of every archaeology and paleontology classroom and lecture, and judges will throw your cases out of the courtroom. Evidence must be conclusive in order to be evidence. If it means something only within your own head, that is not "evidence".

 

2 a) You have no time frame. You have an imagined one, but as to a real one: You have no discrete span of time and you have no clue as to the order of things occurring.

b) You don't have to know where your lab rats come from to continue your research on them. There is no link between the lack of knowledge of the Zariman and the warframes being alive and autonomous of the wearer.

c) Your claim about secrecy and their working environment is entirely your "head-canon" and what you presume to be true. However it is unsupported by any statement or reference in the entire game. See 2a i.e your lack of a real time frame.

 

3. Nothing you have written about Lephantis's words supports your argument or refutes mine. I am at a loss as to what you are even trying to say.

 

So basically your counterpoint is "your evidence is invalid".

 

Because

 

1) What's there is there. I'm drawing connections between what's there and what might be going on but the sources I'm drawing from aren't ficticious.

 

2) a) Neither do you. However given what the lore codexes point out it seems logical to conclude a timeframe of Void Era/Zariman - Orokin Era - Old War - Collapse - Warfarme Era is there.

b) But to work on COUNTLESS like them and NEVER have even overheard something like a single name? To never have accidentily turned up a file mentioning "Zariman"? To only know that it never returned? That, to me, seems far-fetched as hell.

c) It's headcanon, perhaps, but it's drawn from an extrapolation of the events we've seen thus far. Once again, you assert "your timeframe is wrong" without providing evidence to the contrary, only the above mentioned "your evidence is invalid" claims of yours.

 

3) The refute is that "shouldn't Lephantis be used to be attacked by things that bear his flesh by now? Human flesh? When it's already been attacked by the likes of the Grineer? Why is it still seemingly confused as to what is going on? And how the hell would it know what's beneath the Warframes anyway when even the likes of Ruk wasn't sure?"

[Prany]

Narrator could in no way make connection between his experiments and those from Zariman exactly because he knew nothing abour Zariman. It almost seemed like it's an urban legend to him.

 

Imagine you're working at morgue. At breakfest you read in newspaper there has been murder somewhere in town. At afternoon you've given body to dissect. How could you connect this body on your table with murder you skimmed in newspaper?

 

 

b) But to work on COUNTLESS like them and NEVER have even overheard something like a single name? To never have accidentily turned up a file mentioning "Zariman"? To only know that it never returned? That, to me, seems far-fetched as hell.

 

Morec0, do you live in Hollywood movie? That is not how things go with secret projects. There is no overhearing things because there is no discussing top secret matters where they can be heard. There is no accidental turning on secret files because no one without authority has access to secret files, nor computers where these files are stored, nor networks of these computers and not even rooms where they are located. You are massively underestimating what "secret project" entitles.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Prany

[Coryphaus]

My counterpoint is that what you deemed "evidence" is in fact inconclusive and therefore not evidence.

 

1. Connections are only possibilities. They are not fact and they are not evidence, like what you're trying to pass them off as.

 

2a) Neither do I but I have made no claim.

b) Why would he have needed to know about Zariman and his work? Do you know from which treatment plant or catchment area you get your drinking water from? Which factory your burgers are created from? Come on, don't stretch credulity.

c) Head-canon does not equal fact or reality. Do you acknowledge this or do you have trouble with this concept?

 

3. Your attributions of Lephantis's meaning and state of mind (e.g. confusion) is a conflation of your own meaning and your own interpretation of its state of mind. Lephantis could be more demented than confused in its ramblings and yet you chose to pick the story that appeals the most to you, i.e. the most supportive of your unsubstantiated "theories" and try to pass it off as fact.

 

This is terrible. 

 

 

So basically your counterpoint is "your evidence is invalid".

 

Because

 

1) What's there is there. I'm drawing connections between what's there and what might be going on but the sources I'm drawing from aren't ficticious.

 

2) a) Neither do you. However given what the lore codexes point out it seems logical to conclude a timeframe of Void Era/Zariman - Orokin Era - Old War - Collapse - Warfarme Era is there.

b) But to work on COUNTLESS like them and NEVER have even overheard something like a single name? To never have accidentily turned up a file mentioning "Zariman"? To only know that it never returned? That, to me, seems far-fetched as hell.

c) It's headcanon, perhaps, but it's drawn from an extrapolation of the events we've seen thus far. Once again, you assert "your timeframe is wrong" without providing evidence to the contrary, only the above mentioned "your evidence is invalid" claims of yours.

 

3) The refute is that "shouldn't Lephantis be used to be attacked by things that bear his flesh by now? Human flesh? When it's already been attacked by the likes of the Grineer? Why is it still seemingly confused as to what is going on? And how the hell would it know what's beneath the Warframes anyway when even the likes of Ruk wasn't sure?"

[Morec0]

Morec0, do you live in Hollywood movie? That is not how things go with secret projects. There is no overhearing things because there is no discussing top secret matters where they can be heard. There is no accidental turning on secret files because no one without authority has access to secret files, nor computers where these files are stored, nor networks of these computers and not even rooms where they are located. You are massively underestimating what "secret project" entitles.

 

And nor is this game reality.

 

Chekov's Gun - if something is important enough to be mentioned, it will play a role in the story. Why talk about, focus even, on the fact the narrator had no idea the Zariman had returned if it was not crucial to his work?

 

Even if this was a "body thrown on the table" as you put it, if we're meant to assume that this is supposed to be a physical-bodied Tenno in a Warframe, then why was there not any mention of "I put it into its frame". Why does he talk about the shell like it's a part of its body, rather than an armor? Because, again, the Tenno can't use these powers on their own - our ability to switch between the Warframes, along with the fact that this "Tenno" used ONLY Rhino abilities instead of a mix of Warframe ability (which WOULD support the idea that we have all our powers in us naturally, the Warframes just determine which come into use) points towards that.

 

Oh, and on secret - his buddy Davis apparently knew all about the Zariman and the people from it: "this is where they keep them. the ones from the Zariman". Davis, with whom he's familiar enough to speak to on a first-name no-titles basis. Seems to me like information was slipping a bit around the area.

[Coryphaus]

And nor is this game reality.

 

Chekov's Gun - if something is important enough to be mentioned, it will play a role in the story. Why talk about, focus even, on the fact the narrator had no idea the Zariman had returned if it was not crucial to his work?

 

Even if this was a "body thrown on the table" as you put it, if we're meant to assume that this is supposed to be a physical-bodied Tenno in a Warframe, then why was there not any mention of "I put it into its frame". Why does he talk about the shell like it's a part of its body, rather than an armor? Because, again, the Tenno can't use these powers on their own - our ability to switch between the Warframes, along with the fact that this "Tenno" used ONLY Rhino abilities instead of a mix of Warframe ability (which WOULD support the idea that we have all our powers in us naturally, the Warframes just determine which come into use) points towards that.

 

Oh, and on secret - his buddy Davis apparently knew all about the Zariman and the people from it: "this is where they keep them. the ones from the Zariman". Davis, with whom he's familiar enough to speak to on a first-name no-titles basis. Seems to me like information was slipping a bit around the area.

 

The only thing that is slipping is your logical faculties and your consistency. 

 

1. You're confusing what is made known to the reader with what is known to characters in the story with your Chekov's gun example.

 

2. You're assuming that the scientist was dissecting a warframe and not a human being that was stripped of recognition as human.

 

3. Davis knowing what that scientist doesn't supports not a jot of anything you have claimed about secrecy, warframes being alive or anything. Come on now, why would Davis tell his buddy about Zariman? Do you tell your colleagues secrets such as who your first girlfriend is and what you liked to do together? How could you be unfamiliar with the concept that secrets are not shared? We are talking about secrets here, not mere gossip. These are people engaged in priority clearance secrets. They are not gossip girls.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus

[Soju.]

Sorry to break between you philosophers and you advanced English users.

 

But from the Once Awake quest (just rewatched from the video Morec0 gave), the Lotus was able to control your Warframe's powers. From the line: "What has he[Vor] done to you? I can't lose another Tenno. I am surging your Warframe's power systems." after Vor attaches the thing to your left leg.

 

Read somewhere about the Orokin having a "safe switch" on Warframes, or Tennos a while ago in this thread and with the new Natah quest with Lotus being Sentient or somewhat. Could it be that the Lotus took control of the Warframes, or Tennos, and "ordered" them to slaughter the Orokin.

 

Could our powers be much stronger if the Lotus isn't there to 'limit' it? I guess she's one of those type who thinks "too much powers can corrupt a man" or the sort.

 

How did she "surge" our Warframes' power systems? What are Warframes, if it's really a living thing then there couldn't be any switches on it, you can't install a device into a living thing and expect to controls it like that. Bio-mechanical is the only thing I'm looking at since Warframes do looks too organic for an exo-suit. Even Vor gets to know more than we do just by attaching some kind of device onto our leg and maybe even controls it ("I have marked you, you will return to me!").

 

And the line:

"I am the Lotus, I am your guide. I see that the cryosleep has taken your memories, so for now we will focus on survival." is too blatant. It's like her telling Teshin to concentrates in the Natah quest where she just want to hides it. Did she intentionally take our memories away? Since y'know she's the one that destroyed our emperors after all. And she never even tries to help us regain our memories.

Edited August 3, 2015 by AlphaWolf003