Morec0 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Arlayn asks: You mentioned that the Grineer do what is best in the name of the Queens. Where do the Steel Meridian stand in this? Are they not Grineer? While there can be some confusion in the visual appearance of their soldiers the Steel Meridian, by definition, are not Grineer. Grineer refer to all those who serve the will of the Queens. The Steel Meridian are a Syndicate of former Grineer who have chosen a new guiding purpose for themselves. Despite sharing physical similarities to other clone soldiers, their personal philosophies has labeled them as deserters to the Grineer cause. Their work in defending civilian colonies from outside invaders has earned them an honorable reputation. Were it not for this, the Lotus would have never allowed them privileged refuge on Tenno Relays. This sanctity of life is the distinction between the Grineer and Steel Meridian forces. Huh. Edited May 1, 2015 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) In all honesty, it does make sense if you think about it, kind of like the Qunari from Dragon Age, but what do we call traitor Grineer? What is the Grineer term for traitor? Do we simply refer to Steel Meridian soldiers as "Steel Meridian" and not Grineer? Hypothetically, if someone born outside the Grineer was worthy of joining the empire, would they no longer be considered human? Would we call this non-clone "Grineer" as well? So many questions. Edited May 1, 2015 by 011100110110000101101101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM-Bunny Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Well, Grineer is an army. If you're not in the army, you're not a Grineer. I guess it would be more accurate to simply call them "clone soldiers". Also, what about the Steel Meridian operatives? They don't appear to be clone soldiers, I assume they're fully human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Well, Grineer is an army. If you're not in the army, you're not a Grineer. I guess it would be more accurate to simply call them "clone soldiers". Also, what about the Steel Meridian operatives? They don't appear to be clone soldiers, I assume they're fully human? Well, Cordylon made a reference to "Grineer Civilians" at one point, so I'm not sure they're ALL soldiers. I guess one can serve fries as the local McJackal's "FOR THE GLORY OF THE KWEENS!!!!" But aye, I'd assume they're the regular Civilians - the non-cloned humans of origin that don't affiliate with the Corpus. Edited May 1, 2015 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Well, Grineer is an army. If you're not in the army, you're not a Grineer. I guess it would be more accurate to simply call them "clone soldiers". Also, what about the Steel Meridian operatives? They don't appear to be clone soldiers, I assume they're fully human? Probably a mix of different human races (normal human, Grineer and so on). In all honesty, it does make sense if you think about it, kind of like the Qunari from Dragon Age, but what do we call traitor Grineer? What is the Grineer term for traitor? Do we simply refer to Still Meridian soldiers as "Steel Meridian" and not Grineer? Hypothetically, if someone born outside the Grineer was worthy of joining the empire, would they no longer be considered human? Would we call this non-clone "Grineer" as well? So many questions. They call them 'Steer Meridiun skuum'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM-Bunny Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Probably a mix of different human races (normal human, Grineer and so on). Technically I don't think there are "races" other than human in Warframe. Just human with varying degrees of augmentation. EDIT: nvm, I see what you're saying. Edited May 1, 2015 by AM-Bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Huh. Where did that quote come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Where did that quote come from? Cephalon Cordylon. https://warframe.com/news/ask-cephalon-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Where did that quote come from? Same place every Corydlon quote comes from, the most recent "Ask A Cephalon": https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/450864-ask-a-cephalon-may-1/#entry5015204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) So basically the deal is... There are Corpus, an organization, not a race, who seek profit and fight for the cause of profit. There are the Grineer, an organization, not a race, who serve the Queens and fight for the Queens. Then there are the Tenno who fight for... The Lotus? Honor? Money? Fun? The truth regarding themselves? The good of The Origin System? Most likely all of the above. Finally, there are the normal humans, untouched by the void, cloning, or profit, who make up the frequently mentioned "colonies". The Grineer "civilians" are most likely the citizens of colonies taken over by the Grineer, while the Steel Meridian operatives are those "civilians" that were saved by Steel Meridian considering that they're unaugmented. The NPC's in the relays, Baro Ki'Teer, Maroo, and The Lotus are all normal humans. The normal humans tend to where Helmets/Masks that cover their head and face as seen on all the aforementioned characters. They tend to side with the Tenno in most cases as the Tenno attack the oppresive Grineer and Corpus, yet the Tenno do not seem directly affiliated with them aside from letting them populate the relays. That is my 'brief' description/hypothesis of the groups and people in Warframe, their affiliation, and occupation. Edited May 1, 2015 by (PS4)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 So basically the deal is... There are Corpus, an organization, not a race, who seek profit and fight for the cause of profit. There are the Grineer, an organization, not a race, who serve the Queens and fight for the Queens. Then there are the Tenno who fight for... The Lotus? Honor? Money? Fun? The good of The Origin System? Most likely all of the above. Finally, there are the normal humans, untouched by the void, cloning, or profit, who make up the frequently mentioned "colonies". The Grineer "civilians" are most likely the citizens of colonies taken over by the Grineer, while the Steel Meridian operatives are those "civilians" that were saved by Steel Meridian considering that they're unaugmented. The NPC's in the relays, Baro Ki'Teer, Maroo, and The Lotus are all normal humans. The normal humans tend to where Helmets/Masks that cover their head and face as seen on all the aforementioned characters. They tend to side with the Tenno in most cases as the Tenno attack the oppresive Grineer and Corpus, yet the Tenno do not seem directly affiliated with them aside from letting them populate the relays. That is my 'brief' description/hypothesis of the groups and people in Warframe, their affiliation, and occupation. That's generally how I see it - though, for Lotus, the addendum needs to be made that she's some kind of ancient from the Old War as well, and therefore perhaps not a "normal" human (ala how Teshin's live this long) but we'll need to really wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakais Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Well. I would imagine Grineer is simply a fraction of the "human" population. Meaning "Grineer" is simply the name of a "nation". Basically if you work for the cause of the Grineer, live in their domain, pay taxes to them etc. You are "Grineer", much like we identify ourselves by the nations we live in. If you were from a Grineer cloning pod, but you now work against them: You are no longer a Grineer, you are whatever fraction you joined. Us calling Steel Meridian "Grineer" is much like someone from the middle-east calling every Caucasian looking person American even if they are from Sweden for example. Now I will admit I find it odd that we have yet to see any "non-clone" Grineer. it might be that since the Grineer military is very "For the swarm!", these people wouldn't last very long. But also not to mention that every cloned soldier is programmed to hate everything not them, integrating a non-clone into a clone unit would not go over so well as far as unit cohesion is concerned. And additionally, would leave the armed forces much more open for infiltration to high ranks if someone joined and worked up the ranks for the express purpose of espionage. Then again, that lancer armor could fit a normal person just as easy. So, who knows. Maybe every 10th dude you chop up is a natural born human. And we have yet to see any actual "civilians" I mean sure there are the lotus-pajama wearing people we save in rescue missions and work in Relays, but I honestly don't consider them as civilians. They clearly have connections to Tenno or Tenno sympathizing groups. I remember when the new player experience was re-done and we were sent out to locate the foundry component for the lisete. That mission was supposed to be a milk run, pro-Tenno mining colony willing to give away one of their foundry modules, just dock, shake a few hands and walk away. But lo-n-behold by the time we show up, the Grineer have gone all genocide on that place (no civilian bodies though). I really do wish that we get to visit civilian areas at some point. Maybe as very high stakes stealth missions where you have to be extra careful not to cause non-com casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Now I will admit I find it odd that we have yet to see any "non-clone" Grineer. it might be that since the Grineer military is very "For the swarm!", these people wouldn't last very long. We see no non-clone Grineer because the Grineer are incredibly xenophobic and racist toward all who are not "true" Grineer. They would need a very, very, very good reason to recruit a non-clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 We see no non-clone Grineer because the Grineer are incredibly xenophobic and racist toward all who are not "true" Grineer. They would need a very, very, very good reason to recruit a non-clone. Aye, it's that statement of xenophobia that's kinda surprising me with this whole new revelation about non-clone Grineer. I'm honestly VERY curious as to how badass these non-clone Grineer soldiers would have to be to warrant not being executed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Aye, it's that statement of xenophobia that's kinda surprising me with this whole new revelation about non-clone Grineer. I'm honestly VERY curious as to how badass these non-clone Grineer soldiers would have to be to warrant not being executed... One thing is certain. They would have to be so valuable that the Grineer simply would not be as powerful as a whole without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakais Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 We see no non-clone Grineer because the Grineer are incredibly xenophobic and racist toward all who are not "true" Grineer. They would need a very, very, very good reason to recruit a non-clone. Well, my thought on why there could be non-clone grineer is that they see themselves "liberating" the Origin System (all the colonies) from the hardships of getting to rule themselves. You heard those radio messages "Rebel leaders were executed to much public celebration!" Propaganda BS, yes. But it does hint (very strongly) that when the grineer capture a colony, they don't just go "Final Solution" on it and kill everyone down to the last child. There are people who are born and raised under grineer rule. I don't think it overly crazy to imagine that out of the millions of people, there aren't a sizable few who go "Hey, they might have a point!" That and the part where grineer are considered very xenophobic is an ancient description, dating back to the stupid early of this games development. Some tweaks might be taken with it. I mean if you take a willing person, and recruit them. You already cut out the need to spawn them and provide life-saving prosthetics. All you got to do is train them. And the chances that they live long enough to reach a high rank is minuscule. If their fellow soldiers don't off then, there are plenty other things that will. Also Steel Meridian suggests to me, that your average Grineer soldier isn't totally "DEATH TO EVERYTHING NOT ME!" but more along the lines of "I am above these insects." Considering themselves higher up the power ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Aye, it's that statement of xenophobia that's kinda surprising me with this whole new revelation about non-clone Grineer. I'm honestly VERY curious as to how badass these non-clone Grineer soldiers would have to be to warrant not being executed... Like nazi Germany during WWII. There were Aryans, and there were defeated. Aryans were above all and everything, but there was a sort of forced cooperation between them. At least for people who accepted to be dominated by nazi Germany. There were a lot of foreign fighters alongside Germans in Wehrmacht and SS, both volunteer or not. Fighters from 'aryan countries' like Norway, Sweden, Czechoslovakia, Holland, Belgium, France, but also from other nations like Spain, Italy, Russia and Ukraine (and other slav nations in general), Finland, Japan, Turkey and so on. Probably the Grineer empire works in a similar way. There are 'true' Grineer, the ones who started the war, cloning themselves, and there are 'other Grineer', the conquered, who prefear to live under the rule of the Queens instead of die as everyone else. I doubt these kind of 'other Grineer' serve in some way under Grineer army. First of all because the System isn't that populated, and then because I doubt Grineer trust them. Probably they have other kind of roles (workmen for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Well, my thought on why there could be non-clone grineer is that they see themselves "liberating" the Origin System (all the colonies) from the hardships of getting to rule themselves. You heard those radio messages "Rebel leaders were executed to much public celebration!" Propaganda BS, yes. But it does hint (very strongly) that when the grineer capture a colony, they don't just go "Final Solution" on it and kill everyone down to the last child. There are people who are born and raised under grineer rule. I don't think it overly crazy to imagine that out of the millions of people, there aren't a sizable few who go "Hey, they might have a point!" That and the part where grineer are considered very xenophobic is an ancient description, dating back to the stupid early of this games development. Some tweaks might be taken with it. I mean if you take a willing person, and recruit them. You already cut out the need to spawn them and provide life-saving prosthetics. All you got to do is train them. And the chances that they live long enough to reach a high rank is minuscule. If their fellow soldiers don't off then, there are plenty other things that will. Also Steel Meridian suggests to me, that your average Grineer soldier isn't totally "DEATH TO EVERYTHING NOT ME!" but more along the lines of "I am above these insects." Considering themselves higher up the power ladder. The Grineer being racist and xenophobic is not an ancient description. It is very relevant even today with them wanting to exterminate the Tenno and completely dominate all life in the galaxy. Vay Hek tells a lot about Grineer racism toward non-Grineer. You are correct about the Grineer not murdering everyone when they annex a colony, but I strongly believe that those conquered are not true citizens of the Empire and do not have the same rights that "pure" Grineer do. These non-clones may be considered Grineer, but again, they are not "pure" Grineer. The average Grineer has free will, they can do what they want with their life. They are simply fed propaganda from the day they are birthed to they day they die. Not everyone in North Korea believes that Kim Il-Sung is a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziegrif Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The Grineer sound a lot like the Qun from Dragon Age. Obey or be branded a heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The Grineer sound a lot like the Qun from Dragon Age. Obey or be branded a heretic. Except unlike the Qunari, the Grineer will execute you. The Qunari would try to convert you back to the way of the Qun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 What? When was Cordylon open for questioning again? Did I miss it? Last I saw was his response to my query about Grineer civil war. I did feel that the response failed to consider the possibility of rebels as evidenced by Steel Meridian. So 'Grineer' only applies to those still loyal to the Queens... Is there a chance Vay Hek will stop being 'Grineer' and try to establish his own empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 What? When was Cordylon open for questioning again? Did I miss it? Last I saw was his response to my query about Grineer civil war. I did feel that the response failed to consider the possibility of rebels as evidenced by Steel Meridian. So 'Grineer' only applies to those still loyal to the Queens... Is there a chance Vay Hek will stop being 'Grineer' and try to establish his own empire? That question was asked last time, and Cordylon responded with what you read. I think the big take-away from it was "Vay Hek was one of those Grineer that wont be betraying anyone". On the other hand, you have Vor, who seems to have abandoned all ties to his Queens for something greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 That question was asked last time, and Cordylon responded with what you read. I think the big take-away from it was "Vay Hek was one of those Grineer that wont be betraying anyone". On the other hand, you have Vor, who seems to have abandoned all ties to his Queens for something greater. I wish Cordylon would answer my Vor question...I must know what he is up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 I wish Cordylon would answer my Vor question... I must know what he is up to. I like to imagine that he just sits in a tower, energy from his key floating into this head as he mentally scans and studied every centimeter of the Void - that is, until our activity in the towers draws his attention and disturbs his "meditation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011100110110000101101101 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I like to imagine that he just sits in a tower, energy from his key floating into this head as he mentally scans and studied every centimeter of the Void - that is, until our activity in the towers draws his attention and disturbs his "meditation".I have some theories of my own.This is not the thread for them Though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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