Rare Resource Blueprints

[Siubijeni]

When I saw in the patch notes that they'd been added, I was so excited. Then I got into the game and took a closer look... and what twit did this thing? Why? No, it's not the platinum price. I've seen a lot of complaints about that, but when you consider what you're getting... in my opinion, 100 plat might be a little bit steep (especially when compared to the price of warframes and the like), but it makes sense that it's a plat-only blueprint. Around 75 plat might be more appropriate, I think, but that's for the devs to consider.

 

The issue here is that platinum is supposed to be a "currency of convenience." One of Warframe's major selling points is that you can get everything important for free, that nothing significant (say... an exclusive weapon) is locked behind the premium currency. It's a very big deal, and a very big thing going in Warframe's favor--but it makes the role of the premium currency something to pay attention to: convenience.

 

These rare resources blueprints are in no way convenient. You can easily break-down every cost involved, past acquiring the blueprint, and it's just a bad deal. I understand that there has to be some cost involved, but hear me out:

 

15,000 Credits:

There is no shortage of weapons that cost this, or only slightly more than this. It's not much different than assembling the clan-tech resources, which are much more important and used for some of the most unique/powerful weapons. Or a Forma, Catalyst, or Reactor--which are very obviously more useful than a single rare resource.

 

50,000 Nano Spores:

Nano Spores are extremely common, certainly. They aren't used in as many blueprints as some people would like, and they tend to build up a fair bit. But to this degree? Absolutely not.

 

I've been playing since the start of the open beta. I wouldn't call myself a "no-lifer" by any means, and I don't play every single day... but I'm not just "a casual" by any means. I have a significant number of hours logged through Steam, and I maintain the Fan Concepts Index--which itself takes some time. Where am I going with this? I have probably about 8 or 9 months worth of Nano Spores saved up, because I had nothing to do with them. It's only enough to build around 20 rare resources. Your average player probably farms less than me--how long will it take them to get meaningful use out of this blueprint?

 

Way too long.

 

50,000 Alloy Plates:

This is basically the same situation as the Nano Spores, except that they haven't been so common for quite as long. They only really hit saturation when the Void started dropped inane numbers of them. It's been a while since that update, but the point is in that same 8 or 9 months referred to above, I've only gathered enough to make 17 or so of these rare resources.

 

Either one of these resource costs would make this a bad deal... but both? How is this useful?

 

25,000 Salvage:

Salvage... it's actually used in a lot more than the former two, and in more appreciable numbers. As such, I haven't been storing it for as long as the other two, since it was used more before it began stockpiling uselessly. I can't give a precise estimate, but it's been at least half of the 8 or 9 months mentioned in the other two.

 

I have enough for maybe 15 of the rare resources. This is ridiculous.

 

One-Hour Build Time:

Time is a resource, too, especially since you can only build one at a time. One hour. For a single rare resource. If you spent the time it takes to build farming for the resource in question, you'd get much better returns. Even Oreo cells, arguably the hardest of the three available to get... you can probably get at least 5 in that time. Neural Sensors drop in bundles of two or three--you could probably get at least 20 of those.

 

It's just not a good deal here, any way you look at it.

 

Some people have pointed out that, if you're buying rare resources with plat anyway, then so long as you make 10 with the BP you've broken even. That's not exactly the case, though.  You're also 500k shorter on Plates and Spores, 250k shorter on Salvage, 150k shorter on credits, and have waited 10 hours for your foundry to complete them all--unless you spent even more plat to rush the things. And the resources represent a lot of time, in and of themselves. So even then, you haven't really broken even on anything--even platinum, because time is money and this thing is a massive time sink. It's just a bad deal.

 

Bad deals can be fixed, though, and I'd like to suggest several ways this one could be made better. These aren't the only fixes, obviously, but the ones I think the community would receive best:

 

Decrease/Generalize Resource Costs:

I understand that there has to be some cost attached, it's just a question of magnitude. I also think that something to be done about resources might be allowing us to pick which two common resources and one uncommon resource we wish to compress into a Rare. Most people will still pick the ones in place currently, since they're arguably the easiest to get in large number... but it gives us a choice that I think would be much appreciated. For reference:

 

Common: Alloy Plates, Ferrite, Nano Spores, Polymer Bundle

Uncommon: Circuits, Plastids, Rubedo, Salvage

 

It wouldn't hurt to think about options involving the clantech drops, either. Once you've gotten all the clantech, surplus samples are rendered useless. They only drop singly, but they drop far more often than rare resources... so that would need to be taken into consideration.

 

   -Credits could stand to be reduced to 5k, I think. 15k is just too high when compared to far more valuable goods

   -Common Resource One should maybe be more like 10k. If it has to be Nano Spores, more like 5k...

   -Common Resource Two should basically be the same. 10k if general, 5k if it must be Alloy Plates...

   -Uncommon Resource should be in the 5k range. 2.5k if it's restricted to Salvage.

   -Time is tricky. An hour is way too long, but a minute probably too short. Mebbe 10 minutes?

 

You may have noticed that the generalized versions of my suggestions use 1/5 the original figures, while the restricted versions use 1/10. This is because generalizing is, in effect, a further cheapening of the print even if most people will choose to use the currently assigned resources, anyway. It adds choice, and the value of choice cannot be underestimated.

 

Increase Blueprint Return:

All of the above points, of course, are only valid in respect to the current scheme--that is getting one rare resource for all of this. Noting my figures of 1/5 and 1/10 above, I think a generalized version of the current scheme (where you can pick which two common and one uncommon to use) should return at least 5 of the resource in question... while a version restricted to Spores, Plates, and Salvage should return at least 10. An hour is a good enough time for a block of reliable resources, I think.

 

The disadvantage of this scheme is that it grants less control. Having to build the resources in blocks is less convenient than building single resources.

 

Another thing to note for this solution is that I think the credit cost would actually need to go up, not down, for this situation. Probably in the 30-35k range. 15k is just a bit on the cheap side for the stack of resources this solution grants.

 

Or... Complete Rethink. Darvo, maybe:

I think most of us wouldn't be averse to pretending this never happened while a better scheme for resource crafting/trade-in was worked out. Any blueprint/crafting set-up is going to be limited by the foundry, mainly the fact that we can only build one at a time... and the foundry is just getting more cluttered as time goes on and reusable BPs get added to the game.

 

Many in the Fan Concepts section, myself included, have suggested schemes for a trade-in kiosk for the Dojo. My suggestion is more than a bit out-dated, but you can bet I'll be coming up with something new in light of this. The basic premise for the idea I think I'll be working on follows:

 

This isn't a problem in the platinum department, either. If DE wants rare resource construction to be platinum exclusive, as it would appear they do, there's a very simple way to do that: Darvo. His place in the Relays is frankly a little underwhelming. He has stuff all over, but only has one usually meh deal at a time. What if he had a kiosk that allowed players to do various resource conversions for a fee, but to access the rarer ones they have to pay a one-time fee of platinum because "these things aren't easy to arrange, Tenno." Not exactly a finder's fee, but kind of along those lines... an additional fee to be considered a priority customer that he'll go the extra mile for and pay attention to.

 

EDIT: Since people are pointing out that these are Nightmare Trial rewards, too, I thought it worth mentioning that even that isn't a problem... replace it with a voucher for Darvo's service. Problem solved.

 

Personally, I'm all-in-favor of the Darvo idea and will be developing that more, but I look forward to seeing what the community and DE think. I just want this headache/farce to be over, because I can't see how anyone who's put the thought into it considers those blueprints worthwhile. Even if some poor souls have bought the things, replacing them with the Darvo system is easy... just give them access to the appropriate functions of Darvo in exchange for removing the BPs.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Siubijeni

[[DE]Saske]

You can get the bp as a reward of the nightmare trial.

[Siubijeni]

You can get the bp as a reward of the nightmare trial.

 

Pics, or it didn't happen. Nothing I've seen indicates that. Only 3 nightmare mods and the Aseron Sekhara, as special rewards.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Siubijeni

[[DE]Saske]

Pics, or it didn't happen. Nothing I've seen indicates that. Only 9 nightmare mods and the Aseron Sekhara, as special rewards.

 

It drops trust me..

[ToxicTroublermaker]

Pics, or it didn't happen. Nothing I've seen indicates that. Only 9 nightmare mods and the Aseron Sekhara, as special rewards.

It happened

[Bab8s]

I really do hope the costs are reduced a bit. I'm MR 14 and I can build a grand total of one rare resource. There is no way I'm throwing 100 plat away for such a ripoff. I think the credit cost and time to craft is fine, but the resource costs just have a few too many zeros.

[[DE]Saske]

Here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/457262-new-nightmare-raid-reward/

[Kalakukkoo]

Can confirm that Nightmare Raid awards these. Got Neural Sensors BP from finishing one.

[ToxicTroublermaker]

[Siubijeni]

-Pics. It happened-

 

Meh, whatever. It matters little. That's just another way to acquire it--I already said I don't see the platinum price or method of acquisition as a problem, just everything else.

 

The Darvo method I'd like to see this replaced with would still work there. Just turn the reward into a Voucher than be given to Darvo in exchange for inclusion in the appropriate service. Problem solved.

 

And I know I'm not the only one who thinks it's ridiculously overpriced to use.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Siubijeni

[ToxicTroublermaker]

Meh, whatever. It matters little. That's just another way to acquire it--I already said I don't see the platinum price or method of acquisition as a problem, just everything else.

 

And I know I'm not the only one who thinks it's ridiculously overpriced to use.

Oh yes we all agree on that. We were just confirming that they drop at all for you

[Siubijeni]

Oh yes we all agree on that. We were just confirming that they drop at all for you

 

Appreciated. I was mostly being flippant cause I hadn't seen it, I'm not really surprised. Hence the "meh" reaction when everyone jumped on proving it to me, just a little bemused. Didn't mean to offend anybody, it's not that I just didn't believe y'all.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Siubijeni

[Neogeo]

The issue here is that platinum is supposed to be a "currency of convenience."

Can you not farm all the rare resource in game? Yes? Then, the BP is by definition a convenience. I also don't see how this start the trend. The implementation is similar to Kubrow egg

[Siubijeni]

Can you not farm all the rare resource in game? Yes? Then, the BP is by definition a convenience. I also don't see how this start the trend. The implementation is similar to Kubrow egg

 

No, an alternative method is not necessarily more convenient, so it is "by definition" nothing of the sort... do you even English?

"Convenient: fitting in well with a person's needs, activities, and plans; involving little trouble or effort; situated as to allow easy access to."

 

The first definition is more a matter of events and timing, and is not so applicable--it's the latter two that are relevant. The resource costs of these blueprints are most certainly not "situated as to allow easy access" to their use, nor is it "little trouble or effort" to stockpile enough resources to make these things worth using.

 

I don't see how the implementation is similar to a Kubrow Egg at all. Buying the resources straight-up is, certainly. But an overpriced blueprint? Last time I checked, I couldn't churn out Kubrow Eggs for 50k Nano Spores, 50k Alloy Plates, 25k Salvage, and 15k credits a pop. I'm kind of glad, too, because that would not only be weird, it would be just as crappy a deal as this one.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Siubijeni

[Neogeo]

The resource costs of these blueprints are most certainly not "situated as to allow easy access" to their use, nor is it "little trouble or effort" to stockpile enough resources to make these things worth using.

This is stupid. You're basically complaint that plat user getting the resource more easier and faster, most probably because of envy. This is always the case for people that spend plats. They always getting stuff faster and easier. Why complain now? Now if you can not farm the necessity rare resource in game, I might have agree with you. But you can farm and stockpile all of these resource easily, maybe not as fast but still its not that hard to stockpile a bunch of resource chain running phorid.

Just be grateful that you can also earn plats via trading with other player. Not many f2p game allow that. Is that English enough for you or you just going to keep criticizing my post like a Grammer Nazi?

[_FrostPrime_]

This is stupid. You're basically complaint that plat user getting the resource more easier and faster, most probably because of envy. This is always the case for people that spend plats. They always getting stuff faster and easier. Why complain now? Now if you can not farm the necessity rare resource in game, I might have agree with you. But you can farm and stockpile all of these resource easily, maybe not as fast but still its not that hard to stockpile a bunch of resource chain running phorid.

Just be grateful that you can also earn plats via trading with other player. Not many f2p game allow that. Is that English enough for you or you just going to keep criticizing my post like a Grammer Nazi?

 

Where's the part he complained about credit card warriors?

[Neogeo]

Where's the part he complained about credit card warriors?

See quote below. He is basically saying that the rare resources are locked behind a paid wall. This is not true. The BP is simply a faster and easier to gain resources. We can still gain resources at reasonable pace in game.

The issue here is that platinum is supposed to be a "currency of convenience." One of Warframe's major selling points is that you can get everything important for free, that nothing significant (say... an exclusive weapon) is locked behind the premium currency.

[motorfirebox]

It's supposed to be a bad deal. If it were a good deal, nobody'd farm them anymore. For some of us, it's worth the price (the entire price, not just the plat) to not have to go toss a Salad every time we want a dang neural gigawhatchum.

[Hadez239]

De putting Neural scensor as a reward in nightmare trial was so shot . its ard to find player and sometimes we also failed . then at the enad of the reward we get neural scensor ? all of us are sad and kinda angry about . pls remove it from the drop table / tnks

[Sibernetika]

+1 for Darvo