Rift Surge Should Effect Allies In The Rift Too (Imo)

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

"Surge the void energy through the rift plane, increasing the damage inflicted on enemies that have been banished there." - Official ability description.

 

At the moment if the bonus only effects limbo then it isn't "inflicting" anything on enemies its boosting limbo...

 

I would like to humbly beg for surge to affect allies too.

 

The concept is pretty straight forward and a lot of people have already posted about it:

 

Bonus damage for allies if:

1) they are in the rift and

2) the enemies they are targeting are in the rift as well.

 

And yes allow it to work in cataclysm too. Cataclysm is the only viable way to make boosting allies worthwhile and it means that boost will be localized to a small, ever shrinking area.

 

Maximizing strength on Cataclysm is already problematic for its size and duration, then there is the cast time and cost for both Cataclysm and Surge.

 

This is not going to OP Limbo. What it will do it make him fun for the whole team.

 

Limbo players what do you think?

 

 

P.S. If your thinking about leaving a comment like "yeah I one-shotted a insert enemy here, blah T4 blah, so he doesn't need a change" Save it nub. One shotting anything with anything says more about your gun then Limbo. He boosts damage x2 (to 5) but the damage is based on your weapon. Show me some MK-1 Braton or MK-1 Kunai footage in a T4 and I might be impressed...

 

 

[Tatersail]

would give limbo a reason to exist

[Rhaenxys]

I already suggested this multiple times because it will make limbo more teamplay oriented, energy regeneration is not enough to banish your teammates.

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

would give limbo a reason to exist

 

 

I already suggested this multiple times because it will make limbo more teamplay oriented, energy regeneration is not enough to banish your teammates.

 

Not sure why this isn't already implemented. The description makes me think this was the initial idea.

[PsiWarp]

This too was my first interpretation of the ability based on the Warframe Profile and ability description. Share the love, Limbo!

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

I'm going to make signs "DE hates Limbos".

[DrBorris]

I thought it was a glitch that it did not at first... but after a few months I guess that means it is intentional. 

 

Either make it a team buff OR make it 400% damage at base and only apply to Limbo. 

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

400% damage buff for just Limbo is pretty poor. Banshee's Sonar gives 500% damage buff at base, when hitting the highlighted parts.

[S7ORM]

[OP's post]

You may be interested in this?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/457798-limbo-changes-for-usability/

[Tatersail]

I wonder if it was a glitch but DE where unable to fix it, and decided it was too much effort, so they made it a feature :)

 

The amount of times I stood inside a Limbo bubble saying "I can't see any damage buff are you sure he is inside"

 

 

Make Limbo 3 PASSIVE

 

Give limbo a new skill, there are enough posts about it!

[Huntchez]

Sure, and while we're at it, let's let Mirage's Hall of Mirrors give allies their own clones, Let's have Mesa's Ballistic Battery apply bonus damage to all allies in range for one shot, and let Trinity's Link apply on to allies as well so they can mitigate and reflect some damage as well?

 

Rift Surge should remain exclusive to Limbo. The rift is HIS playground, where Rift Surge is HIS buff, and should buff ONLY him.

 

In fact, let me set up a hypothetical scenario.

 

==========

 

MODS: Overextended, Stretch, Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, Continuity, Constitution, and Vitality.

 

Results: 

 

Rift Surge: 

+448.0% damage bonus

32.6 second duration.

 

Cataclysm:

37.6 Radius

39.1 second duration.

 

Limbo, Power Strength and Range oriented, casts this big &#! Cataclysm ( http://prntscr.com/67hgrd ripped off another thread), then casts Rift Surge. You have this long as range on it, so it shouldn't be hard to miss any of your teammates with this buff. You now have this large &#! globe where enemies are completely rifted, and on top of that, you have this free 450% damage boost for half a minute. Mind you, this globe is more than likely taking up most, if not, the entire area of what I want to assume is a big open stage. 

 

Now, before anyone tries to counteract this argument, I would like to mention that while not all Limbos would build this way, this is one of the more absurdly strong builds that further show how abysmal things can get IF Rift Surge effected allies. Now, let's compare this 'buff' to another fellow frame that buffs player damage with the exact same build. Rhino.

 

Roar:

19.6 power duration.

112.0 damage bonus.

 

==========

 

Hope I don't have to explain more. If I do, please feel free to ask..

[PsiWarp]

The difference is that Eclipse and Roar affect the total damage including modded damage. Rift Surge only multiplies the base damage of the weapon itself, regardless of your Serration, Hornet Strike or Pressure Point. That's a fairly insubstantial boost compared to what Mirage or Rhino is capable of, which basically translate to ability-induced Criticals.

 

All Warframes manipulate void energy. Limbo uses it to manipulate rift energy. It's not that far-fetched for him to energize his fellow gentle/lady-frames and their weapons.

Edited May 19, 2015 by PsiWarp

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

Sure, and while we're at it, let's let Mirage's Hall of Mirrors give allies their own clones, Let's have Mesa's Ballistic Battery apply bonus damage to all allies in range for one shot, and let Trinity's Link apply on to allies as well so they can mitigate and reflect some damage as well?

 

Rift Surge should remain exclusive to Limbo. The rift is HIS playground, where Rift Surge is HIS buff, and should buff ONLY him.

 

In fact, let me set up a hypothetical scenario.

 

==========

 

MODS: Overextended, Stretch, Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, Continuity, Constitution, and Vitality.

 

Results: 

 

Rift Surge: 

+448.0% damage bonus

32.6 second duration.

 

Cataclysm:

37.6 Radius

39.1 second duration.

 

Limbo, Power Strength and Range oriented, casts this big ! Cataclysm ( http://prntscr.com/67hgrd ripped off another thread), then casts Rift Surge. You have this long as range on it, so it shouldn't be hard to miss any of your teammates with this buff. You now have this large ! globe where enemies are completely rifted, and on top of that, you have this free 450% damage boost for half a minute. Mind you, this globe is more than likely taking up most, if not, the entire area of what I want to assume is a big open stage. 

 

Now, before anyone tries to counteract this argument, I would like to mention that while not all Limbos would build this way, this is one of the more absurdly strong builds that further show how abysmal things can get IF Rift Surge effected allies. Now, let's compare this 'buff' to another fellow frame that buffs player damage with the exact same build. Rhino.

 

Roar:

19.6 power duration.

112.0 damage bonus.

 

==========

 

Hope I don't have to explain more. If I do, please feel free to ask..

 

Meanwhile Banshee can boost all team mates 500% damage (1420% max strength) in a much wider area (35m BASE) then a cataclysm, no problem. Make it so Limbo is actually useful? Pffft f*ck that.

 

Also, Nova's Molecular Prime should only effect HER damage.

 

Also, Loki's Radial Disarm should create a seperate plane of existense while Loki's enemies are the one's without guns.

 

Let's just make this a solo game, because F*ck team play and co-op.

 

Makes sense. You're so right. Undeniable logic.

 

/sarcasm.

 

What you're saying is ridiculous. The frames/abilities you've listed are completely irrelevant. They're not even 'buffs', (except for Mesa's Ballistic Battery, which is a S#&$ty move and a bad example) those frames would DIE without them. Mirage/Trinity/Loki/Banshee have the lowest physical stats in the game. Besides just look how rift surge is described.

it's

Surge the void energy through the rift plane, increasing the damage inflicted on enemies that have been banished there.

not

Surge the void energy through the rift plane, increasing the damage Limbo does to enemies that have been banished there.

 

It's completely different, and falsely labeled.

[Huntchez]

The difference is that Eclipse and Roar affect the total damage including modded damage. Rift Surge only multiplies the base damage of the weapon itself, regardless of your Serration, Hornet Strike or Pressure Point. That's a fairly insubstantial boost compared to what Mirage or Rhino is capable of, which basically translate to ability-induced Criticals.

 

All Warframes manipulate void energy. Limbo uses it to manipulate rift energy. It's not that far-fetched for him to energize his fellow gentle/lady-frames and their weapons.

 

I honestly can't argue with the top half of your post. Kind of missed that on my part. For your bottom half however, if having the ability to remove allies temporarily from play where they can still abuse their abilities and regain energy freely isn't enough for Limbo players, I don't know what else to tell them.

 

Cataclysm aside, Banish is Limbo's primary way of bringing enemies to the rift and dealing with them swiftly, as they are knocked down. Rift Surge helps him with picking off difficult/higher level targets, and with Cataclysm (range build or not) merely gives him a limited amount of space in which he can take advantage of Rift Surge at the cost of also taking damage from enemies in the rift. Why have Rift Surge affect allies when there are frames that can easily excel without the buff? That don't need the rift at all? If you want a shared damage buffer that bad, consider Rhino, or as BloodForTheBloodGods mentioned: Banshee. As for the frames that could rely on the rift, and Rift Surge, consider the fact that they have pseudo-invincibility in the rift, while still able to mash their abilities. That in itself should be seen as a buff.

 

Meanwhile Banshee can boost all team mates 500% damage (1420% max strength) in a much wider area (35m BASE) then a cataclysm, no problem. Make it so Limbo is actually useful? Pffft f*ck that.

 

Also, Nova's Molecular Prime should only effect HER damage.

 

Also, Loki's Radial Disarm should create a seperate plane of existense while Loki's enemies are the one's without guns.

 

Let's just make this a solo game, because F*ck team play and co-op.

 

Makes sense. You're so right. Undeniable logic.

 

/sarcasm.

 

What you're saying is ridiculous. The frames/abilities you've listed are completely irrelevant. They're not even 'buffs', (except for Mesa's Ballistic Battery, which is a S#&$ty move and a bad example) those frames would DIE without them. Mirage/Trinity/Loki/Banshee have the lowest physical stats in the game. Besides just look how rift surge is described.

it's

Surge the void energy through the rift plane, increasing the damage inflicted on enemies that have been banished there.

not

Surge the void energy through the rift plane, increasing the damage Limbo does to enemies that have been banished there.

 

It's completely different, and falsely labeled.

 

Meanwhile, Cataclysm is up for the full duration, allowing 'everyone' to utilize the damage buff to the fullest without worrying about highlighted spots against enemies that enters the globe, while Sonar only works if there are enemies in the vicinity to highlight, and even then have to calculate who out of (assumingly) 4 people focuses on attacking the highlighted spots.

Then there's the fact that while enemies can enter the ongoing Cataclysm (I keep using Cataclysm in my debates because I doubt a Limbo is going to single-target every enemy in the vicinity) and get wrecked by Rift Surge'd allies, you are stuck constantly recasting Sonar for every wave of enemies that die, unless of course you have Resonance, which I'm sure not ever Banshee has, and even then, enemies might not be in range of of the additional pulses to begin with. 

 

The funny thing about Molecular Prime is that, at one point, DID only affect her damage. That was the major complaint that led to her nerf. Take /ALL/ the kills! o/

 

Not sure how that would even work for Loki, but then again with Predator I guess as long as you're disarmed, you're out of the Slaughter plane.

 

It's early, and I don't meant to be up right now, so excuse if my typing is bad, or somethings sound off. I just wanted to reply at the earliest convenience

 

That all said, I found my Limbo card.

 

.

 

I won't lie though, the thought of Rift Surge and Sonar stacking... http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/smite.gamepedia.com/6/68/MechGeb_Purchase_Recommended_2.ogg

[DrBorris]

I honestly can't argue with the top half of your post. Kind of missed that on my part. For your bottom half however, if having the ability to remove allies temporarily from play where they can still abuse their abilities and regain energy freely isn't enough for Limbo players, I don't know what else to tell them.

 

Cataclysm aside, Banish is Limbo's primary way of bringing enemies to the rift and dealing with them swiftly, as they are knocked down. Rift Surge helps him with picking off difficult/higher level targets, and with Cataclysm (range build or not) merely gives him a limited amount of space in which he can take advantage of Rift Surge at the cost of also taking damage from enemies in the rift. Why have Rift Surge affect allies when there are frames that can easily excel without the buff? That don't need the rift at all? If you want a shared damage buffer that bad, consider Rhino, or as BloodForTheBloodGods mentioned: Banshee. As for the frames that could rely on the rift, and Rift Surge, consider the fact that they have pseudo-invincibility in the rift, while still able to mash their abilities. That in itself should be seen as a buff.

 

 

Meanwhile, Cataclysm is up for the full duration, allowing 'everyone' to utilize the damage buff to the fullest without worrying about highlighted spots against enemies that enters the globe, while Sonar only works if there are enemies in the vicinity to highlight, and even then have to calculate who out of (assumingly) 4 people focuses on attacking the highlighted spots.

Then there's the fact that while enemies can enter the ongoing Cataclysm (I keep using Cataclysm in my debates because I doubt a Limbo is going to single-target every enemy in the vicinity) and get wrecked by Rift Surge'd allies, you are stuck constantly recasting Sonar for every wave of enemies that die, unless of course you have Resonance, which I'm sure not ever Banshee has, and even then, enemies might not be in range of of the additional pulses to begin with. 

 

The funny thing about Molecular Prime is that, at one point, DID only affect her damage. That was the major complaint that led to her nerf. Take /ALL/ the kills! o/

 

Not sure how that would even work for Loki, but then again with Predator I guess as long as you're disarmed, you're out of the Slaughter plane.

 

It's early, and I don't meant to be up right now, so excuse if my typing is bad, or somethings sound off. I just wanted to reply at the earliest convenience

 

That all said, I found my Limbo card.

Ummm, na.

 

I must first comment on your Molecular Prime reference. M. Prime has always given double damage for the entire team, however, at first the damage of the explosions always went towards Nova's kill count. Thus, if Nova cast M. Prime and some other person killed the first enemy in the chain reaction, Nova would get the credit for all of the kills in the chain reaction. It was at some point changed to whatever person activated the explosion got credit for the enemies killed by the explosion. Also, if you want to kill enemies in the rift, you must have enemies in the rift with you, thus you are no longer invincible. And of course note that unless you are Limbo you cannot determine what enemies are in the rift. 

 

Let us start with some of the smaller holes in your argument, then work our way up. The first and weakest hole is the concept of Rift Surge itself. Rift Surge channels energy into the RIFT, (it does not channel energy into Limbo, which would probably be a better description for only affecting Limbo). However, that is just a description of the ability, we are talking about mechanics here. So.. lets move up to the difference between the usability of both Sonar and Rift Surge. Banshee highlights areas of enemies for more damage, and yes, only precise weapons can reliably hit those marks, but Sonar can be easily recast in order to increase the surface area where the weak-spots show up, making more "spray and pray" weapons viable with it (I am ignoring resonance due to it being an augment, but it is important to note that this augment removes any need for aiming). Cataclysm has the advantage of being a universal effect within a range. However, that range is only up to the discretion of Limbo. An ally has very little decision over whether or not they are in the rift and has practically no decision over if an enemy is in the rift. So, unlike Sonar where the ally can choose if they want the boost or not, the bonus of Rift Surge is determined only by Limbo. Let us also not forget that you cannot pick up items while in the rift, so you are completely dependent on the rift for your energy supply. Another mechanical note with Sonar and Cataclysm is that Sonar can be cast multiple times in many areas. In Warframe, players are often not in the same place. Banshee can cast Sonar wherever she wants and give everyone the boost. Limbo on the other hand can only give his boost in one localized area (This same point also works when comparing Roar).

 

But you know what, lets forget about that stuff. You sir have intentionally mislead others with your "facts" about Cataclysm and Rift Surge. Did anyone else think about the fact that to get this "large range" boost you need to cast two abilities? And those two abilities are the higher two of Limbos kit. And it is not done there, that "example" build that was given has a max rank Blind Rage. You know what that means? In total, creating this range of damage boost costs 232.5 energy. Now don't say "The rift regenerates energy", the duration of this cataclysm is 39.1 seconds, that means that only 78.2 energy is regenerated, and let us not forget about no pickups in the rift. And if you dare say "Trinity"... ugg, everything is made OP with a Trinity, she is a completely separate conversation. Also, when you look at Banshee, she has that 500% damage as a base for an ability that only costs 50 energy. So let us say that Banshee casts Sonar 4 times to give a more equivalent comparison to your Rift Surge/Cataclysm example, now the chances are very likely that the majority of enemies body is covered with weak-spots, removing the need for aiming. And if we dare give Banshee your build, Sonar's damage boost becomes 1120%... that is a little bit more than 448%. And if you cast this 1120% damage Sonar three times (less than the Limbo requirement) you are back to the no-aim easy mode (and when you throw in Resonance...). So, Huntchez, please do not manipulate facts like that. 

 

You know the worst part of this? I do not necessarily thing that Rift Surge should be a team ability. I am still on the fence of either keeping it only for Limbo and buffing its effects or making it team based. However, due to the intentional misconstruction of facts I had to call you out. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by DrBorris

[Huntchez]

Ummm, na.

 

I must first comment on your Molecular Prime reference. M. Prime has always given double damage for the entire team, however, at first the damage of the explosions always went towards Nova's kill count. Thus, if Nova cast M. Prime and some other person killed the first enemy in the chain reaction, Nova would get the credit for all of the kills in the chain reaction. It was at some point changed to whatever person activated the explosion got credit for the enemies killed by the explosion. Also, if you want to kill enemies in the rift, you must have enemies in the rift with you, thus you are no longer invincible. And of course note that unless you are Limbo you cannot determine what enemies are in the rift. 

 

Let us start with some of the smaller holes in your argument, then work our way up. The first and weakest hole is the concept of Rift Surge itself. Rift Surge channels energy into the RIFT, (it does not channel energy into Limbo, which would probably be a better description for only affecting Limbo). However, that is just a description of the ability, we are talking about mechanics here. So.. lets move up to the difference between the usability of both Sonar and Rift Surge. Banshee highlights areas of enemies for more damage, and yes, only precise weapons can reliably hit those marks, but Sonar can be easily recast in order to increase the surface area where the weak-spots show up, making more "spray and pray" weapons viable with it (I am ignoring resonance due to it being an augment, but it is important to note that this augment removes any need for aiming). Cataclysm has the advantage of being a universal effect within a range. However, that range is only up to the discretion of Limbo. An ally has very little decision over whether or not they are in the rift and has practically no decision over if an enemy is in the rift. So, unlike Sonar where the ally can choose if they want the boost or not, the bonus of Rift Surge is determined only by Limbo. Let us also not forget that you cannot pick up items while in the rift, so you are completely dependent on the rift for your energy supply. Another mechanical note with Sonar and Cataclysm is that Sonar can be cast multiple times in many areas. In Warframe, players are often not in the same place. Banshee can cast Sonar wherever she wants and give everyone the boost. Limbo on the other hand can only give his boost in one localized area (This same point also works when comparing Roar).

 

But you know what, lets forget about that stuff. You sir have intentionally mislead others with your "facts" about Cataclysm and Rift Surge. Did anyone else think about the fact that to get this "large range" boost you need to cast two abilities? And those two abilities are the higher two of Limbos kit. And it is not done there, that "example" build that was given has a max rank Blind Rage. You know what that means? In total, creating this range of damage boost costs 232.5 energy. Now don't say "The rift regenerates energy", the duration of this cataclysm is 39.1 seconds, that means that only 78.2 energy is regenerated, and let us not forget about no pickups in the rift. And if you dare say "Trinity"... ugg, everything is made OP with a Trinity, she is a completely separate conversation. Also, when you look at Banshee, she has that 500% damage as a base for an ability that only costs 50 energy. So let us say that Banshee casts Sonar 4 times to give a more equivalent comparison to your Rift Surge/Cataclysm example, now the chances are very likely that the majority of enemies body is covered with weak-spots, removing the need for aiming. And if we dare give Banshee your build, Sonar's damage boost becomes 1120%... that is a little bit more than 448%. And if you cast this 1120% damage Sonar three times (less than the Limbo requirement) you are back to the no-aim easy mode (and when you throw in Resonance...). So, Huntchez, please do not manipulate facts like that. 

 

You know the worst part of this? I do not necessarily thing that Rift Surge should be a team ability. I am still on the fence of either keeping it only for Limbo and buffing its effects or making it team based. However, due to the intentional misconstruction of facts I had to call you out. 

 

 

Welp, you not only checkmated me, but also discovered my true intentions to shut people the hell up about wanting or suggesting change in Limbo's kit. Bravo kind sir. With that, I am off.

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Huntchez

[DrBorris]

-snip-

Well, glad to see that you at least have a sense of humor. But when someone calls you you, you saying "look at this guy" is not the most constructive response. If you disagree, say why. You stretched some stuff, I call you out on it, and you run off... huh. 

 

Edit: And sorry if I seemed that upset with your response, I did not mean to allude to "flipping the table".

 

 

Hope I don't have to explain more. If I do, please feel free to ask..

Edited May 19, 2015 by DrBorris

[Huntchez]

 

Well, glad to see that you at least have a sense of humor. But when someone calls you you, you saying "look at this guy" is not the most constructive response. If you disagree, say why. You stretched some stuff, I call you out on it, and you run off... huh. 

 

Edit: And sorry if I seemed that upset with your response, I did not mean to allude to "flipping the table".

 

 

 

 

I quote you, and get this spoiler tag. Weird.

 

Anyway, I guess I never really got to get what I wanted to say, so here it is.

 

*CLEARS THROAT

 

I do not agree with Rift Surge effecting allies. Why? Because the Rift Surge, like the rest of his kit, should remain unique to him, and only him. 

 

Getting banished into the rift should be the ONLY thing you should get out of Limbo, whether through Banish, or standing in Cataclysm. Rift Surge gives him the damage he needs to easily combat those he choose to banish, Now, let me try to explain this the best I can without hopefully making an invalid statement.

 

Unlike all the other Warframes currently in the game, Rift Surge is a useless skill on its own. It is nothing without the rift, just a skill taking up space until you enter the rift. Pretty obvious, everyone knows this, but compared to the many others who's 3rd skill provides some sort of utility (I count 23 frames, 10 that provides utility by default, 5 that can with the skill augmented, 7 that either benefits self [Limbo included], Ash's teleport being debatable) Limbo's Rift Surge is only beneficial in that one plane. 

 

You might know all that already, sure that's cool. Let's look at the extremes though.

 

Limbo already has a purpose in the game., A great single-target assassin (Banish, Riftwalk, Rift Surge), Savior of the fallen (Riftwalk), defender of the objectives (Cataclysm, Banish), etc.

If you make his Rift Surge effect allies, you'll be changing how he is played, his purpose. 

 

The purposes I just mentioned, and maybe even more I didn't? Say goodbye to all that. Why?

 

Players will more than likely:

 

A. Demand a Power Strength + Range build to maximize the size and strength (the best you can with say, Overextended and Blind Rage if trying to capitalize on both)

 

B. Demand a Power Strength + Duration build to maximize safety and strength, and have you banish targets one by one while the team picks them off.

 

People will expect Limbo to always have Cataclysm and Rift Surge up all the time, regardless of the game mode. They will want every known enemy in the level to be in that Cataclysm, and will want to faceroll them because of the Rift Surge damage buff. You will be nothing more than that. A buffer. No one will want the usual Limbo player, they will want a Rift Surge and Cataclysm slave.

 

Use Cataclysm

Use Rift Surge

Everyone clears room.

Cancel Cataclysm

Clean up loot

Move on to the next room.

Repeat.

 

 

There would be no challenge to it. There's no upside to this for the enemies, only a major downside. Spy missions would be meaningless since while rifted you can waltz through lasers, Capture would be a breeze since you will be shredding the target before they knew what hit them (if you don't already do that now), all obstacles would mean nothing, Defence on the higher tiers would be a walk in the park. It would break things.

 

I know I'm making points for Cataclysm alone among the Rift Surge reasons, but they would utterly lean on one another at this point. 

 

 

But that's just me with a hypothetical point of view. Don't mind me or anything.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Huntchez

[DrBorris]

 

 

I quote you, and get this spoiler tag. Weird.

 

Anyway, I guess I never really got to get what I wanted to say, so here it is.

 

*CLEARS THROAT

 

I do not agree with Rift Surge effecting allies. Why? Because the Rift Surge, like the rest of his kit, should remain unique to him, and only him. 

 

Getting banished into the rift should be the ONLY thing you should get out of Limbo, whether through Banish, or standing in Cataclysm. Rift Surge gives him the damage he needs to easily combat those he choose to banish, Now, let me try to explain this the best I can without hopefully making an invalid statement.

 

Unlike all the other Warframes currently in the game, Rift Surge is a useless skill on its own. It is nothing without the rift, just a skill taking up space until you enter the rift. Pretty obvious, everyone knows this, but compared to the many others who's 3rd skill provides some sort of utility (I count 23 frames, 10 that provides utility by default, 5 that can with the skill augmented, 7 that either benefits self [Limbo included], Ash's teleport being debatable) Limbo's Rift Surge is only beneficial in that one plane. 

 

You might know all that already, sure that's cool. Let's look at the extremes though.

 

Limbo already has a purpose in the game., A great single-target assassin (Banish, Riftwalk, Rift Surge), Savior of the fallen (Riftwalk), defender of the objectives (Cataclysm, Banish), etc.

If you make his Rift Surge effect allies, you'll be changing how he is played, his purpose. 

 

The purposes I just mentioned, and maybe even more I didn't? Say goodbye to all that. Why?

 

Players will more than likely:

 

A. Demand a Power Strength + Range build to maximize the size and strength (the best you can with say, Overextended and Blind Rage if trying to capitalize on both)

 

B. Demand a Power Strength + Duration build to maximize safety and strength, and have you banish targets one by one while the team picks them off.

 

People will expect Limbo to always have Cataclysm and Rift Surge up all the time, regardless of the game mode. They will want every known enemy in the level to be in that Cataclysm, and will want to faceroll them because of the Rift Surge damage buff. You will be nothing more than that. A buffer. No one will want the usual Limbo player, they will want a Rift Surge and Cataclysm slave.

 

Use Cataclysm

Use Rift Surge

Everyone clears room.

Cancel Cataclysm

Clean up loot

Move on to the next room.

Repeat.

 

 

There would be no challenge to it. There's no upside to this for the enemies, only a major downside. Spy missions would be meaningless since while rifted you can waltz through lasers, Capture would be a breeze since you will be shredding the target before they knew what hit them (if you don't already do that now), all obstacles would mean nothing, Defence on the higher tiers would be a walk in the park. It would break things.

 

I know I'm making points for Cataclysm alone among the Rift Surge reasons, but they would utterly lean on one another at this point. 

 

 

But that's just me with a hypothetical point of view. Don't mind me or anything.

Okay, but I still disagree (but for different reasons). 

 

You describe Limbo as a frame that only really benefits himself Some arguments could be made for the objective stuff, but when it comes to combat it is all for the benefit of Limbo), and you propose keeping him that way, that that is his "role" in the game. I cannot disagree with that because that is how you view Limbo and where you think he should be. However, I would like to see Limbo move beyond "selfish" play and be able to support the team. When I enter a game and see a Rhino, I do not assume and expect that he has a Roar build. When I enter a game and see a Banshee I do not expect a max damage Sonar build. Limbo, even if Rift Surge affected allies, would still have roles beyond just damage. He is still a master of manipulating the playing field and capable stopping all incoming damage from swarms of enemies. With Rift Surge affecting allies, he would not lose his CC potential, but he would gain other ways that he can be played. So often now players are annoyed by Limbos joining a team because he only gives benefit to himself and forces everyone to play to his rules. 

 

Okay, I am rambling now. The point of what I am saying is; Limbo should be able to benefit the team in differnt way, his uses are so situational as they are he could use just about anything to make him more versatile. Having Rift Surge afefct allies is a way to do so.

 

So... lets agree to disagree. 

 

 

But that's just me with a hypothetical point of view. Don't mind me or anything.

Was that really necessary? I was not bashing your opinion, I bashed the reasoning you gave for your opinion. Now that you explained yourself, I can understand your point of view and respect it. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by DrBorris