Harsh Critic Over Patch

[RealityMachina]

And then you decide to drop in here, claim that no one is a bit out of line, and claim that we're all friggin fangirls of DE, when all we are trying to do is get people to calm down.

There's trying to get people to calm down and there's looking like one is pretending there's nothing wrong with the patch, whether when it comes to the rhino changes or the atrocious changes to how weapons can be acquired by newbies.

 

Lol so the game by default is so easy then why get so upset with ironskin nerf? It's not gonna ruin the whole experience.

Because from what I've gathered, the ironskin nerf went so far as to make it so the warframe meant to be a tank sucks at its job. A tank that can't actually tank is kinda a bit of a problem.

[Vashramire]

Do people really not understand how balancing works? It's not always going to please everyone on the first pass, especially in a Beta. Rhino as an example was OP and only useful for 1 ability. It was pretty much a waste to use the others. Invincible for minutes at a time and just melt bosses with guns or try and hold aggro. Why would his armor or health and shields even matter then? They didn't. I'm not saying he's balanced now, but I am saying he wasn't before.

 

DE isn't going to just nerf a Frame to the ground and leave it there. They want to change something and see how we adjust and preform with it, then they can see what actions need to be made. "ZOMG frame iz broke" is a silly argument. If you really relied on invincibility to play this game then you are just bad. I know it doesn't feel good when something you like gets the nerf bat but constructive criticism is more helpful than "you ruined my game I quit". DE wants to make the game fun for everyone, but tuning doesn't always happen in one sweep. Be patient.

[Fenrisulfr]

DE wants to make the game fun for everyone, but tuning doesn't always happen in one sweep. Be patient.

 

I would also like to add to this, has DE ever failed to do so? Just week ago we got nerfs on 2 very op weapons, and it didn't sit really well. 3 days later, they get buffed, but are still relatively balanced, and by now no one is even talking about it. Everyone is satisfied.

I am severely disappointed by how little faith people have in DE. And sad thing is, because of extreme outbursts like these, they won't be able to get accurate feedback, which in turn means it'll take even longer to hit the right spot.

[D3thpool]

All this talk about op this nerf that....this is still a coop focused pve game last i checked.

Things can & should be op, there is no competition against other people to be had.

[CosyPigeon]

http://youtu.be/BrMGPvjPtM8

This springs to mind whenever I see the rage threads and complaining little S#&$s. There is literally NOTHING more annoying than the entitled.

 

 

 

This isn't a political discussion, this is a game we invested a fair amount of money in. We are entitled to complain. If you don't like it when people complain when they are being screwed, I suggest you refrain from viewing the gameplay feedback forums after DE releases yet another patch that sacrifices common sense game design for the sake of trying to force new players into purchasing platinum. 

[Bubsters]

many people are being extremely over-dramatic.

I'm not being over dramatic when I say the damn support, trinity, or damn caster, ember, can be tankier than the damn tank.

 

Stop labeling all these rhino players like were dumb as f***.

[Fenrisulfr]

I'm Rhino player as well. And once again, I'm not saying all players, for F*** sake. I'm saying that there is a lot of players, or at least fair amount of vocal members of community, that are being over dramatic.

 

I myself don't agree with current situation the Rhino is in, but hundred threads containing nothing more than "Omg he's useless" and "I'm leaving the game" within 24 hours that the patch hit are not helping anyone at all. Quite contrary.

[CompositeGNFNR]

I'm not being over dramatic when I say the damn support, trinity, or damn caster, ember, can be tankier than the damn tank.

 

Stop labeling all these rhino players like were dumb as f***.

We're*

Note: I agree with the fact it was easy Mode. However, complaining about the over-Nerf solves Nothing . Adapt and overcome, give constructive feedback, and Rhino's other powers might become Useful.

[Tarmon11]

It really annoys me when people always talk about how Rhino was able to just go into "God mod" and destroy bosses easily and that it was super overpowered as if everyone used it that way. There are alot of people who have the warframe and use the ability, but don't have all ranks in it and don't have the maxed power duration mod on. I built Rhino and the Fragor hammer so that I could have *fun* running around and smashing people with a giant hammer, which is something I can no longer do because on any decently high level missions groups of 3 or more enemies shred through my shields and health when I get close. The way I used ironskin was just to get in close enough to a group of enemies that I could smash them without dying, and if I start getting low as a way of regaining shields. To me it seems like they didn't fully take into consideration all the different ways that people play the game and what the potential rammifications of changing it so significantly would be. If they wanted to stop people just going into "God mode" for the entire mission, then in my opinion they should have just introduced a cooldown system or increased the energy cost so that you would have to space out your uses of the ability and use it more tactically. I think they should have thought a bit more before introducing this change, but I'm not going to quit the game over it or rage as many people currently are. However, we do have the right to give our opinions on the subject of balance and of the changes, and the people that are running around saying things like "ITS JUST BETA, DEAL WITH IT" and "OMG RHINO PLAYERS QQ MORE" and "WHAT, YOUR JUST MAD BECAUSE YOU CAN'T USE GOD MODE" to people that are just giving feedback is very silly. Giving feedback to the developers gives them new ideas and will hopefully teach them to consider every aspect of the game that a change will affect. Even if that feedback is not in the most positive manner Ex. Rhino players saying "DE SUCKS, IM GOING TO QUIT" and "I REGRET PAYING MONEY FOR THIS, I HAVE NO FAITH IN DE", its still feedback and will help.

[muccmaster]

I agree with you.

 

I honestly found nothing wrong with this patch whilst playing, though some minor hiccups with matchmaking etc but they can be fixed. I honestly cannot believe the amount of posts over the whole Rhino and Banshee issue, I find it irritating and I can only imagine how much it irritates DE. They work hard, they work into the hours of the morning and all they get is this? I mean seriously, people need to think before posting. Not only are they complaining but they are pretty much spitting on all of the developers work.

 

DE works hard, we all know that. They listen and watch the community perhaps more than any game I have seen. They don't deserve the countless "Omg this sucks" or "OMG WTF?! I QUIT" the people who post those are literally children crying over spilled milk. Spilled milk get's cleaned up. A patch change can be fixed and changed in another patch or hot fix. All is not lost.

 

The complainers essentially need to 'suck it up' as it were.

And what, just because they put "hard" work into the game we can't critique it? Who supports this game and keeps it going? We do, we have every right to complain when they make the wrong decisions. So if your mayor works hard and screws up your city you're not supposed to complain? Your post makes no sense, people have been making perfectly constructive criticism. it's all part of an MMO.

[Fenrisulfr]

Even if that feedback is not in the most positive manner Ex. Rhino players saying "DE SUCKS, IM GOING TO QUIT" and "I REGRET PAYING MONEY FOR THIS, I HAVE NO FAITH IN DE", its still feedback and will help.

 

No,its not a feedback. Its whining on maturity level of a spoiled brat based on hyperbole, and it accomplishes nothing. Sole thing it does is force devs to throw out changes one after another as fast as possible, without them knowing the nature of the problem nor having time to find it. Its been seen countless times, and it never ends well. You know when the situation almost exclusively gets better? When people stop whining in such manner and devs stop being under such pressure. I've yet to see exception from this rule.

[RealityMachina]

Sole thing it does is force devs to throw out changes one after another as fast as possible, without them knowing the nature of the problem nor having time to find it.

Last time I checked this is something devs can choose not to do no matter what.

[Fenrisulfr]

And be faced with further S#&$storm from over-zealous community.

Although, you are right, they can choose not to. I should have written "Sole thing it can do" rather than "it does" to suggest possible course.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Fenrisulfr

[RealityMachina]

And be faced with further S#&$storm from over-zealous community.

 

And?

 

Developers will always have people who are over zealous about anything in their works. The best a developer can do is just make sure they get the good feedback (even if this does have the tendency to induce "I want to start drinking and never stop" sentiments in the people assigned to do this), and make sure they don't rush updates that changes very important things lest they do things that are really, really terrible ideas.

 

In fact, I would argue that, say, Bioware Montreal's an example of a developer that DE should strive to emulate behavourially, judging from their surprisingly good performance with ME3 Multiplayer.

[Guest]

http://youtu.be/BrMGPvjPtM8

This springs to mind whenever I see the rage threads and complaining little S#&$s. There is literally NOTHING more annoying than the entitled.

 

The game has not been destroyed, it has been improved. Not one person I know has any issue with balancing changes. Because its just a game, yes it is an incredibly fun game - yes you might have sunk money into it. But you DON'T ACTUALLY DIE or suffer EXCRUCIATING PHYSICAL AGONY whenever they change something in the course of finding the right balance. So all these people doomsday preaching and moaning in tortured lament at the utterly devastating destruction that has been unleashed upon the minute details of their favourite Warframe, go and have a huff of lithium and perhaps a valium enema. 

 

RELAX. 

It hasn't been destroyed but it's damn well a lot S#&$tier than it was on Thursday. Have you seen all the starter weapons that require a ton of Alloy Plate? Do you know how HARD it is to farm up Alloy Plate? That crap is rarer than Rubedo and is only really available on high level planets. What in God's name made DE think an end game resource should be the component of several STARTER weapons?

[SoanoS]

As a part-time Rhino user, I haven't really tried it against Infestation yet after the patch.

 

But here is what I have been able to deduct from the comments here...

 

1) The Rhino is no longer completely invulnerable, but up to 80% damage reduction.

 

2) The Rhino lost immunity to stuns, disruption and knockdown (and knock-up too, apparently, didn't know Rhino was a female. :P)

I understood this was unintentional and will be fixed soon.

 

3) The Iron Skin is not applied to HP, only Shield, which a Toxic Ancient has no problem eating away easily. And a Disruptor Ancient can take the benefit of shield out completely in one hit, rendering the Iron Skin completely useless because there is no shield to apply the damage reduction on to.

 

The 2 will hopefully be fixed soon, and 3 should be changed in such a way that the Rhino has at least partial resistance to it (not draining *all* the shields and energy at once, but  portion of it), which would restore at least some of the Infested tanking capability to Rhino.

 

So my conclusion would be that it got somewhat overnerfed and I hope the devs will find some sort of middle ground between the old state and the current state.

 

And I agree, they should make the starter weapons require low level materials.

Edited May 18, 2013 by SoanoS

[muccmaster]

The new market layout is really going to push away new players unless they absolutely love grinding or open their wallets. This is by far the biggest issue with the latest patch.

[Guest]

The new market layout is really going to push away new players unless they absolutely love grinding or open their wallets. This is by far the biggest issue with the latest patch.

Agreed

 

I don't get why DE has become so stingy with ALL the weapons. I could understand the really high level stuff like the Hek, because those are incredibly powerful. But to make the starter weapons meant for new players blueprint only and then make the blueprint requirements include high level materials is just absurd.

 

I mean look at this

 

Edited May 18, 2013 by Guest

[Naysann]

Those of you who are raging at other people raging are just as bad. You immediately jump to the conclusion that just because DE works hard their decisions are always justified. Many of us agree that rhino needed a nerf to his iron skin and i think this is a start, but I also believe that its a rough start. I won't go into detail since there are plenty of posts out there with great constructive criticism on the patch and details/ideas on how to improve or rework it.

There will always be those who immediately throw tantrums without a single bit of constructive criticism; however, that is no reason to go off on everyone who disagrees with the patch. There are plenty of valid reasons why the market changes to some of the weapons were poorly executed or why the nerfs to certain skills could use some improvement. Throwing a tantrum and swearing at other people for throwing tantrums is not making any difference or progress. The community has a right to disagree and voice their opinions whether or not they are well supported or agreeable. If anyone can't handle that then they should really get off the internet until they learn how to.

Telling someone "great fuckin' job" and assuming everyone disagreeing with the patch is "overly dramatic" is the same as assuming DE is "ruining the game" or "full of idiots". Like I said before, there are plenty of threads out there with great material and constructive criticism, so assuming that we're all overly dramatic is ironically, overly dramatic. Following blindly is just as bad as criticizing blindly, so its important to remember that there might be actual VALID points being made about this patch.

I don't completely agree with this patch but I fully support DE and believe that they will eventually get around to working things out.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Naysann

[Fenrisulfr]

assuming everyone

 

How the hell do people manage to keep claiming that I'm talking about everyone, when I've spent every single post so far explaining that I'm opposing only, and just only, the far extremes and supporting those with valid feedback?

 

I myself posted several posts about better ways that Iron skin could have been made, but thats obviously not enough. Apparently, I have to go batS#&$ crazy and pronounce DE the new devil like that few people that I oppose, otherwise this witch hunt won't be complete.

But, its becoming apparent that people read only what they want to read.

I'm done here.

[KaneTheDark]

"Have some goddamn respect instead of crying "Omg, DE ruined the game. [insert random insults]". Play the game for a while, leave a constructive criticism/feedback, go for a walk, take a smoke, get a hooker. Anything is better than making yourself look like a spoiled 8-year old brat."

 

Couldn't have said it better myself lolol, although the patch didn't really bother me too much, i might go take a smoke and get a hooker in the mean time while i wait for update 8. (*sarcasm)

Edited May 18, 2013 by KaneTheDark

[Fenrisulfr]

 

Couldn't have said it better myself lolol, although the patch didn't really bother me too much, i might go take a smoke and get a hooker in the mean time while i wait for update 8. (*sarcasm)

 

 

Well,I can guarantee you that hooker will make you feel better.

Except if its the one that costs 10 bucks. Dont trust that S#&$.

[AXCrusnik]

I agree with OP, everyone gets butthurt when their favorite overpowered x gets nerfed, and their excuse is "it's not pvp so balance doesn't matter"

[Otaiken]

I'm still baffled that some people think that abilities actually make any difference in difficulty of this game. Care to do a little experiment? Take your frame and strip it of all abilities (doesn't matter which frame), then put just shield and health mods on it. After that run Pluto. Oh yeah, nothing changes because I'm still 2 shotting stuff with a bloody Lato. Wanna make this game hard? Take your serration, hornet strikes, multishots and elemental dmg mods and throw them away. Congrats, now your game is hard.

 

Not everyone is doing defense missions 24/7. For the most part those AoE abilities are just flashy way to kill some enemies. I can clear 3/4 of enemies with a gun before Sound Quake of that Banshee on my team even kicks in and that was before nerf. Don't kid yourselves, this game is easy but it isn't because of abilities.

 

Even those high level enemies on defense missions are just bullet sponges. That kind of difficulty curve is just bad game design. Bullet sponges are not fun, that is like a chapter 1 in the game design book when it comes to difficulty curve. It's the same thing with just increasing number of enemies. I'm losing faith that even DE knows just where the hell they'll go with this. If you wanna cry about game difficulty, well, this is not the place.

 

Nerfs are pointless at this point. DE should seriously start thinking about balancing enemies in some way, or they'll have to nerf the entire game starting with weapons and mods and ending with sentinels.

Edited May 19, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[TavisNamara]

Seeing a lot of talk about Rhino's Iron Skin. That's a reasonable nerf. Turning god mode into really tough.

What isn't reasonable is the other invincibilities that seem to have gone away with it. For example, my Banshee. I went into an infested mission, thinking my Sound Quake, while not being the be-all, end-all, destroyer of worlds (fair nerf taking that down a notch), WOULD give me a few seconds to recover, get my shield up again, and get rid of the normals so that I could focus on any nearby ancients. Several minutes later, I get cornered by a Toxic, a Disrupter, and a horde of random rabble... Sound quake time. My weapons weren't nearly enough to take them out... But then, mid-sound quake, I realized... I'd lost my shield. And my energy. And... um... oh crap. I didn't have ANY invincibility time. Tested it out later, and from what I can tell, at no point during the entire move, from activation to that oh SO long standing animation when she's done, did she have a single frame of invincibility. In a move that roots me to the spot and makes me target practice for any sufficiently tough enemies. A few days ago, it could save me when things got bad. Now? Now I come out of the move with what little shield I had gone, all my energy gone, and 300 out of my 540 health gone. And I hadn't reloaded. I had nothing, and two ancients staring me in the face. It was by skill and insane amounts of luck that I got out of the level alive. Skills have, for as long as anyone I know has played, been the last ditch effort to survive. Now I don't dare use them.