Nerf/remove Greedy Pull Please (With Ideas)

[Fafy]

While yes, I do find that people sitting around in one place of a map to spam an ability is a bit silly due to Gmag, I have also felt that Gmag has other uses in missions where you only temporarily camp around, such as Excavation. I've actually been thankful of having a Gmag on missions like these - Some of my favorite weapons are ammo ineffecient, okay ;< -.

 

Plus Mag is also one of my more favorite frames but I've never built her for the use of Gmag (Mostly because I don't have that augment), and while I personally would like to see it still function similarly, I'm not sure what they would even do to go about fighting this camping problem.

 

And oh, I have seen people stay in a part of the map in one easy-to-defend room in say lengthy T4 Survivals even without the use of a Gmag. Though at that point Mesa's usefulness in her 4 also is kinda neutered down since you need a lot more damage than Peacemaker can provide, so that's an extreme case example on my end.

 

tl;dr version:
I like the useful Gmag users in the shorter-campy maps like Excavation

Maybe imply the change onto Mesa that she can't pick up energy orbs while Peacemaker is active? (Though wouldn't it just be a case of her going out of it shortly, pick up who knows how many energy orbs is close to her, get them and then resume?)

 

And yes, I know Mesa is my icon and I do like playing her, but I rarely, if ever, use her for endless type missions. I prefer duration based Shooting Gallery+Shatter Shield build =3

[ThePresident777]

Corrupted mods and Survival were not the start of spam in Warframe.  From the second U7 (i.e. open beta) hit, people were spamming in Mobile Defense.  Mobile Defense was the original Survival mission, without the oxygen mechanic.  Which is to say that it was chock full of enemies coming at the players, or pod, fast and furious in rapid sucession.  The faster they died, the faster they came back, and dropped energy orbs.  Players who didn't like that, had other missions to play.

 

In fact, the spawn rates were a lot higher in all Warframe missions back then.  Any mission could be an endless spawn-fest by not completing the mission goal and just continuing to kill enemy.  It's how I used to farm morphics in mercury, solo, before I had the gear to farm morphics on higher level missions, when morphics were not so easy to come by.

 

This was long before corrupted mods, survival, and excavation, and it was jam packed with players 24/7 across the Star Chart.  I remember unlocking the entire Star Chart without any trouble finding people to unlock each and every node.  It was as easy as just clicking a node, and, bam, you're in mission with a full team, any node.  The only thing that delayed my unlocking the Star Chart was not having the equipment to tackle the higher level missions.

 

Nerfers are attempting to ruin, to take away, the fun of people who have been playing this game long before they showed up, and for new players who found something unique and interesting.  It's the same thing as telling people to go play something else.  When nerfers come onto these forums and advocate for getting rid of other peope's game play they are telling other people to get lost.  That is the nature of nerfs, like putting visine in someone's coffee.

 

And, one has to wonder, if someone is so dissatisfied with a game for years that they are constantly on the forums advocating for nerfs, then why do they bother when what they want already exists in other games?  Why should satisfied customers have to lose out at all, let alone to someone who can just go find what they want in Destiny or Mass Effect 3 or or Gears of War or Dark Souls or tons of other games that have all that they advocate for?

 

It's difficult to imagine Devastation without bombs, especially of a Massive Army, especially in a futuristic or fantasy setting, let alone sci-fantasy, even more so one with relay destroying Formorian capitol ships.  Those sci-fantasy guns must be pocket nuke chain gun howitzers for 4 Tenno To Devastate Massive Army with guns.  Cue the chorus of people complaining that the enemy die with one bullet at level 1000.

 

The closest warframe gets to anything classic (non-futuristic) ninja combat is Sword Alone and it's not 4 Tenno Devastating Massive Armies.

 

Pay close attention to that DE quote I supplied.  It has room for all sorts of game play in the game.  But the core is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army, not a bunch of nerfs.  All that other stuff goes in Boss Battles or Desperate Scenarios.  But, the nerfers don't care.  They want the entire game all to themselves as evidenced by their constant nerf everything attitude as opposed to a creative attitude.  Nerfers never simply propose that DE make the content/sand box they like.  They always propose DE get rid of what they don't like, even though what they want already exists in lots of other games they could play at any moment.

Edited May 29, 2015 by ThePresident777

[vaugahn]

Corrupted mods and Survival were not the start of spam in Warframe.  From the second U7 (i.e. open beta) hit, people were spamming in Mobile Defense.  Mobile Defense was the original Survival mission, without the oxygen mechanic.  Which is to say that it was chock full of enemies coming at the players, or pod, fast and furious in rapid sucession.  The faster they died, the faster they came back, and dropped energy orbs.  Players who didn't like that, had other missions to play.

 

In fact, the spawn rates were a lot higher in all Warframe missions back then.  Any mission could be an endless spawn-fest by not completing the mission goal and just continuing to kill enemy.  It's how I used to farm morphics in mercury, solo, before I had the gear to farm morphics on higher level missions, when morphics were not so easy to come by.

 

Were you playing the same Warframe as the rest of us? That is nothing like how the game was back then. Spawn rates were significantly lower than they are now, and energy was harder to come by. That's an extremely biased and rose-tinted view, and entirely inaccurate.

 

But by all means, please do not take my word for it. Here's a gameplay video of a closed beta mobile defense mission:

 

 

Not exactly what I'd describe as "chock full of enemies". I doubt the spawn rates there are even half of what they are today.

 

Nerfers are attempting to ruin, to take away, the fun of people who have been playing this game long before they showed up, and for new players who found something unique and interesting.  It's the same thing as telling people to go play something else.  When nerfers come onto these forums and advocate for getting rid of other peope's game play they are telling other people to get lost.  That is the nature of nerfs, like putting visine in someone's coffee.

 

This is also an outright fabrication. First off, the idea that there are "nerfers". Sadly, there aren't. There are a great many people who think many different things about what needs to be done, but there aren't nerfers any more than there are buffers. It's a ridiculous idea, and one made up to try and strawman people who don't agree with you.

 

Second off, you're way off base about how nerfs work as well. Like buffs, they're a way to keep your game elements in balance. They're not a punishment or some specific slap on the wrist, just like buffs aren't a reward for good behavior. They're a game balance change. Nobody is out to ruin your fun or telling you to play someone else, and saying that they are is a lie.

 

And, one has to wonder, if someone is so dissatisfied with a game for years that they are constantly on the forums advocating for nerfs, then why do they bother when what they want already exists in other games?  Why should satisfied customers have to lose out at all, let alone to someone who can just go find what they want in Destiny or Mass Effect 3 or or Gears of War or Dark Souls or tons of other games that have all that they advocate for?

 

Yes, why should anyone give feedback? This game is perfect the way it is, and anyone who disagrees should stop playing it.

 

It's difficult to imagine Devastation without bombs, especially of a Massive Army, especially in a futuristic or fantasy setting, let alone sci-fantasy, even more so one with relay destroying Formorian capitol ships.  Those sci-fantasy guns must be pocket nuke chain gun howitzers for 4 Tenno To Devastate Massive Army with guns.  Cue the chorus of people complaining that the enemy die with one bullet at level 1000.

 

The closest warframe gets to anything classic (non-futuristic) ninja combat is Sword Alone and it's not 4 Tenno Devastating Massive Armies.

 

Pay close attention to that DE quote I supplied.  It has room for all sorts of game play in the game.  But the core is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army, not a bunch of nerfs.  All that other stuff goes in Boss Battles or Desperate Scenarios.  But, the nerfers don't care.  They want the entire game all to themselves as evidenced by their constant nerf everything attitude as opposed to a creative attitude.  Nerfers never simply propose that DE make the content/sand box they like.  They always propose DE get rid of what they don't like, even though what they want already exists in lots of other games they could play at any moment.

 

This is a false dilemma. What you're saying is that the only way to devastate a massive army is to destroy them all in one button press, and that there are no other viable solutions. That's simply not true. We don't even have to go far to find other solutions, popular culture is full of them. Go watch any movie about one highly-trained fighter taking down a massed group of enemies, and tell me how they do it.

 

And again, misunderstanding how nerfs work. They're not unilateral weakening devices, they exist to bring things in balance. Tenno can and will still be the most powerful force in the universe, even if they are balanced. That's because balance is among player choices and freely adjusts both with and to the enemy.

 

So far in this thread you've done nothing but lie, direct personal attacks against people who disagree with you, and outright fabricate opposing positions in blatant disregard of reality. I would ask you to stop, but that doesn't seem like it'll happen.

Edited May 29, 2015 by vaugahn

[Liminal]

I've said this so many times...

 

There's something about greedy pull that makes it different from those abilities, and restores, andtrinity that MANY OF YOU SEEM TO MISS.

 

     Those other loot abilities only give extra loot. Greedy pull puts all the loot in one little pile, effectively taking away the reward for running away from the pod in defense (because you have to grab energy, loot and ammo). With greedy pull, all you have to do is sit there pressing 4 while your gmag builds a pile of loot under your feet. Having fun yet? Additionally, trin and restores don't work in stationary channeling abilities.

You missed my point completely. What I'm saying is that the "stay put and spam abilities" gamestyle itself has to be tackled. Not each ability. Those are symptoms.

 

If you simply address Greedy Pull players will find the next combination of powers that lets them farm the most with the minimum effort possible.

[vaugahn]

You missed my point completely. What I'm saying is that the "stay put and spam abilities" gamestyle itself has to be tackled. Not each ability. Those are symptoms.

 

If you simply address Greedy Pull players will find the next combination of powers that lets them farm the most with the minimum effort possible.

 

Not just the stay put and spam gamestyle, but the reason why that gamestyle is so popular. If players didn't feel like they needed these tactics, they wouldn't be so opposed to changing them.

 

Spy 2.0 was a good move in this direction, but it still wasn't enough. I'm honestly not sure how to address this problem in totality.

[GAME_PRO24X]

My question is, how does this affect your personal game play. If you want to "not" play with greedy mag.... dont join random matches, and join a clan and play with friends. or better yet, solo.

because everyone should be forced to play the game he wants to, just like when people hate on draco farms and such. Doesnt affect them because they could just NOT PLAY DRACO but makes them mad because it a quick efficient way to get rep fast? Oh sorry i didnt want to waste 4 hours of grinding when you can do it in 20 mins, apparently im wrong for wanting that right?

[GAME_PRO24X]

There's something about greedy pull that makes it different from those abilities, and restores, andtrinity that MANY OF YOU SEEM TO MISS.

 

     Those other loot abilities only give extra loot. Greedy pull puts all the loot in one little pile, effectively taking away the reward for running away from the pod in defense (because you have to grab energy, loot and ammo). With greedy pull, all you have to do is sit there pressing 4 while your gmag builds a pile of loot under your feet. Having fun yet? Additionally, trin and restores don't work in stationary channeling abilities.

There is no reward in running away from the pods you HAVE TO DEFEND to pick up crap, do you like picking up every little crumb on your carpet? no of course not so you use a vaccum. but wait apparently thats wrong for some people because it takes away fun? i dont understand how goin on an easter egg hunt all the time was considerd fun. greedy pull offers the same benifit as your typical vaccum, sucks up all the crap you want into one neat little place for you. If your so hell bent on wanting greedy pull removed then please by all means never use a vaccum in real life because youd be a hyprocrite, your missing out on the "FUN" that is picking up every little piece off the ground.

 

im tired of peole *@##&#036;ing about things that dont need to be *@##&#036;ed about, especially if its something that does benifit everyone. Makes me feel like the people wanting unneccesary nerfs are trolls that want to ruin the game.

[vaugahn]

Makes me feel like the people wanting unneccesary nerfs are trolls that want to ruin the game.

 

Everyone here wants to improve the game. We may disagree on how, but we wouldn't post in a feedback forum if we didn't think our feedback could help improve the game.

[GAME_PRO24X]

Everyone here wants to improve the game. We may disagree on how, but we wouldn't post in a feedback forum if we didn't think our feedback could help improve the game.

I understand that but really wanting greedy pull removed because you dont like people effectivly collecting loot from the battlefield instead of running around on a wild goose chase sounds a bit trolly and regressive to the improvement to the game.

[vaugahn]

I understand that but really wanting greedy pull removed because you dont like people effectivly collecting loot from the battlefield instead of running around on a wild goose chase sounds a bit trolly and regressive to the improvement to the game.

 

Camping and imbalance among dominant strategies is bad for the longevity of a game. Even if the suggestions don't actually fix the heart of the problem it's not hard to see why people would suggest that these things ought to be nerfed, they're obviously problematic.

[GAME_PRO24X]

Camping and imbalance among dominant strategies is bad for the longevity of a game. Even if the suggestions don't actually fix the heart of the problem it's not hard to see why people would suggest that these things ought to be nerfed, they're obviously problematic.

people make it seem like you can just slap on the mod and bam you can instantly camp and such when in reality you have to have invested in mods, builds and such in order to perfom these camps. as for camping as a stradegy, if enemies stopped becomeming bullets sponges at high level surv and such them the need for camping would be removed, but also people would still do it because 1 shot your dead kind of scenario. if you have the build and power it should feel rewarding to safely and effecitvly gather mats, mods or whatever. again its like going to a crop field and you having to pick all the crops one at a time where as if you had the know how and resources you could invest in a harvester that can get everything faster. that alone should make you feel satisfied that you can aquaire these things at a much faster and abundant rate but it seems like people LOVE running around picking things up one at a time, getting shot up and dieing. instead of stradegizing a team set up and effectivly getting through what you need to get through.

[vaugahn]

people make it seem like you can just slap on the mod and bam you can instantly camp 

 

Well, you pretty much can. The mod investment for a greedy pull build is not exactly huge, and having one in your squad enables camping to a degree no other support frame can.

 

And that's before we even talk about the effect on gameplay. You said it yourself, it should feel rewarding to be effective. Playing Greedy Mag, Nekros, Mesa, frames like that, that's not rewarding. I hate being a Desecrate Nekros because you cannot play the game at all, you're just stuck in position casting until you move to a new spot and pick up again. It's the same for Greedy Mag, and it's even worse for Mesa players. 

 

People seem to like to make it a convenience thing, like "OMG why do you like picking up drops", it's more of a gameplay thing. Being locked out of playing the game because you're designated lootframe is not fun, and it promotes that "I'm just here to grind" mentality that is currently so common in the community.

[GAME_PRO24X]

Well, you pretty much can. The mod investment for a greedy pull build is not exactly huge, and having one in your squad enables camping to a degree no other support frame can.

 

And that's before we even talk about the effect on gameplay. You said it yourself, it should feel rewarding to be effective. Playing Greedy Mag, Nekros, Mesa, frames like that, that's not rewarding. I hate being a Desecrate Nekros because you cannot play the game at all, you're just stuck in position casting until you move to a new spot and pick up again. It's the same for Greedy Mag, and it's even worse for Mesa players. 

 

People seem to like to make it a convenience thing, like "OMG why do you like picking up drops", it's more of a gameplay thing. Being locked out of playing the game because you're designated lootframe is not fun, and it promotes that "I'm just here to grind" mentality that is currently so common in the community.

most of the time when you see that set up is for a specific purpos such as looting for a certain mat, mod or trying to survive. it sucks for some frames but if you want good rewards its something you have to put up with. because without those specific frames and such grinding for those things will be much more painful. if you dont want to do any of that then dont, same as to the guy who strted this thread if he doesnt like gmags then dont play with em, but no you have to go the extra mile and just flat out want it removed or nerfed. "that guy has a car and can cross a mile in a minute, i only have my legs and it takes me an hour to get to a mile, ban the car so everyone should walk just like me!!!" Again i dont see how nerfing/removing gpull is benificial to the game, it was made to eliviate the work of running around picking up the mess youve made. but apparelty thats a bad thing people love working harder for less. again if you dont like these frames/players than dont play with em, it feels douchy that youd want to take away that pleasure and luxury those frames have like the car example i have stated above.

[MagPrime]

I understand that but really wanting greedy pull removed because you dont like people effectivly collecting loot from the battlefield instead of running around on a wild goose chase sounds a bit trolly and regressive to the improvement to the game.

From what I've been reading and from my personal experience, the mod isn't being used for this.  It's being used as an excuse to spam one ability and not really contributing to the team effort beyond being an independently mobile Carrier.

 

Effective loot collection, to me, is picking up loot between waves or having Carrier with you, or coordinating with your team to make sure loot is dropping in a contained area, not all over the map.  Not standing in one place and spamming GPull.

[vaugahn]

 "that guy has a car and can cross a mile in a minute, i only have my legs and it takes me an hour to get to a mile, ban the car so everyone should walk just like me!!!" 

 

That's...not really at all what I'm saying here.

 

Read my last post again. It's not about the collection of loot, it's about what it does to the game.

[ThePresident777]

That video is from closed beta, U6, posted 02/16/2013. 

is from 02/08/2013, and nukes had already been in the game before that.  Components  of 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army had already been in the game long before, featured in even earlier Warframe promotional videos on youtube, as well as disinterest in typical gaming conventions.  In open beta, DE started to make good on 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.  It's not unusual for development to take time.

 

There absolutely are nerfers and buffers.  There are tons of new threads on a daily basis to show this.  None of them giving a damn about other people's fun.  All of them wanting the game to suit their narrow interests in their entirety.  It's very rare for someone to request a scenario to suit a particular preference, virtually unheard of.  Instead, narrow views are prevalent.

 

This thread is yet another example of such.  The fact is that camping has existed in Warframe since Defense in March 2013, maybe earlier.  Getting rid of Greedy Pull isn't going to get rid of camping.  The only thing that will get rid of camping is missions with goals that move, and room to move in, and spawners that do not shut down when the team occupies more than one room (like it does in Survival now), and rewards as good as what one finds in camping.  As long as missions like Defense exist, especially in tiny maps like the one at Varro and Draco, there will be campers camping.  But, how does their camping ruin the game for people who do not want to camp?  It doesn't.  What ruins the game for people who do not want to camp is the best rewards being available only in camping missions.

 

Artillery doesn't destroy a Massive Army with one shell.  And, in warframe, it is not the case that 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army with one press of the number 4, even if it had a 50 meter radius because Massive Armies take up space, and time, obviously.

 

There is more than one balance point.  Each one makes the game play faster or slower than the next balance point.  Nerfers are constantly attacking the "OP" stuff, the stuff that makes the game play fast, the stuff that other people enjoy.  Nerfing for balance is facitious.  It's propaganda.

Edited May 29, 2015 by ThePresident777

[GAME_PRO24X]

From what I've been reading and from my personal experience, the mod isn't being used for this.  It's being used as an excuse to spam one ability and not really contributing to the team effort beyond being an independently mobile Carrier.

 

Effective loot collection, to me, is picking up loot between waves or having Carrier with you, or coordinating with your team to make sure loot is dropping in a contained area, not all over the map.  Not standing in one place and spamming GPull.

but then the question arises so who are you or wanting it removed or nerfed? (not YOU i mean just in genreral) again if you dont like how its being used then dont play with it or the people who use it in that manner. Does it affect how you playw warframe ornhow you farm etc? I dont smoke but if i go to a bar where people smoke should i tell em to get out? no because thats douchy and "I" have the choice to be there or not. Why would i ruin someone elses good time because i dont agree with it?

[GAME_PRO24X]

That's...not really at all what I'm saying here.

 

Read my last post again. It's not about the collection of loot, it's about what it does to the game.

if you never play with those people or that mod is it still destroying your experience? people can play it however they want, but i guess thats not true because of posts like this that would want everyone to stop playing a certain way becaue a few people dont agree with it.

[MagPrime]

but then the question arises so who are you or wanting it removed or nerfed? (not YOU i mean just in genreral) again if you dont like how its being used then dont play with it or the people who use it in that manner. Does it affect how you playw warframe ornhow you farm etc? I dont smoke but if i go to a bar where people smoke should i tell em to get out? no because thats douchy and "I" have the choice to be there or not. Why would i ruin someone elses good time because i dont agree with it?

I'd put a timer on it or make it only pull a portion of the loot to justify spamming it.

 

And telling players to simply "Don't play with someone who plays like that" is silly.  You don't know how someone will play unless you're playing with them. You're basically telling someone to stfu or get out.  How is that not ruining their fun as well?  The goal is to make this balanced enough to where everyone is having fun, not just some.

 

As far as the smoking analogy goes, it's illegal to smoke in bars due to it being a health hazard to both people inside and out.  So, using the analogy you provided, the mod can be "nerfed" due to it being unhealthy for the game.

 

 

if you never play with those people or that mod is it still destroying your experience? people can play it however they want, but i guess thats not true because of posts like this that would want everyone to stop playing a certain way becaue a few people dont agree with it.

 

If the player finds it fun to play this way, then they should play that way.  The problem is when they behave like this in Public groups and not changing behavior when asked.  Now it's only "fun" for 1/4 of the team.  Play like you want in a group with people that do the same, communicate with your teammates and work out a strategy, don't force your definition of fun on others and then get upset when they are vocal about it.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Noamuth

[vaugahn]

That video is from closed beta, U6, posted 02/16/2013. 

is from 02/08/2013, and nukes had already been in the game before that.  Components  of 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army had already been in the game long before, featured in even earlier Warframe promotional videos on youtube, as well as disinterest in typical gaming conventions.  In open beta, DE started to make good on 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.  It's not unusual for development to take time.

 

Well, since we're getting down to the nitty gritty, here's one that sits smack dab in the middle of your "massive army" golden age.

 

 

Please point me towards the massive hordes of enemies. Better yet, post some gameplay of your own showing what you're talking about!

 

Oh, and since we're talking about trailers now:

 

 

The most enemies you see on screen at once there is 5. Maybe. And the vast majority of kills show are with melee and guns, and there's no spamming. So if you've got a Warframe promo video where someone spams against a massive army, please post that too.

 

There absolutely are nerfers and buffers. 

 

No, there's not. There are people who get called nerfers and buffers by people attempting to cast them in a negative light, but those two groups don't actually exist.

 

This thread is yet another example of such.  The fact is that camping has existed in Warframe since Defense in March 2013, maybe earlier.  Getting rid of Greedy Pull isn't going to get rid of camping.  The only thing that will get rid of camping is missions with goals that move, and room to move in, and spawners that do not shut down when the team occupies more than one room (like it does in Survival now), and rewards as good as what finds in camping.  As long as missions like Defense exist, especially in tiny maps like the one at Varro and Draco, there will be campers camping.  But, how does their camping ruin the game for people who do not want to camp?  It doesn't.  What ruins the game for people who do not want to camp is the best rewards being available only in camping missions.

 

You do at least have the actual problem in your sights, which is the issue of rewards and recycled maps. As we've seen with Spy 2.0, spreading rewards out of endless missions is a good way to go. It incentivizes actually playing the game, because it feels like a viable alternative to powerfarming. Whether it actually is a viable alternative is still a subject of debate, but that ends up not really being important so much.

 

Nerfers are constantly attacking the "OP" stuff, the stuff that makes the game play fast, the stuff that other people enjoy. 

 

It's so weird that you'd say that, when you're arguing against nerfing something that makes gameplay entirely stationary. It's almost like that's a completely made up attack with no basis in reality whatsoever.

 

Nerfs can make the game faster. Buffs can make the game slower. Neither is an absolute force for good or evil or some sort of monolithic moral standpoint, they're both entirely relative.

 

Nerfing for balance is facitious.  It's propaganda.

 

First off, not what facetious means. Second off, read this.

 

Nerfing and buffing are the same thing applied to different items. A nerf to one item is a buff by relation to everything else, and a buff to one item is a nerf by relation to everything else. If nerfs are propaganda, then so is every balance change. You're taking a stand against nothing. Let's use syndicate weapons as an example. Nerfing the Synoid made other weapons more popular, and buffing the Rakta made it more popular than other weapons. You see how that works? Nerfing the Synoid comes to the same end result as buffing all the other Syndicate weapons. You might ask why we don't just buff everything then, and that's a valid point. If you read the link from above you might have a hint as to why this isn't a good idea. Here's a quote from a guy named Raph Koster, who was the lead designer for Ultima Online (which is actually the game that coined the term "nerf") and a handful of other games: "you can try to avoid toning down a feature or object and instead turn everything else up. [This] causes problems, because it means that you have to rebalance everything, and on top of that, it renders your other forms of content obsolete. (Let's say you have an overpowered blaster. To fix things this way, you have to update every other weapon in the game--but now your creatures and other players are all too weak...)"

 

Just another post filled with outright lies and personal attacks. If you've got actual points to make, I'm waiting.

 

if you never play with those people or that mod is it still destroying your experience? people can play it however they want, but i guess thats not true because of posts like this that would want everyone to stop playing a certain way becaue a few people dont agree with it.

 

Hard to say. Camping is the reason why we have an AFK timer now, which is a negative impact on my Warframe experience. On the other hand, there is something to be said for player choice when it comes to gameplay strategies. I think that synergy between abilities is something we want, but we need to avoid abusive synergy, and we need to make sure abilities are designed in a way that lets players actually play the game when they're using them in synergy.

Edited May 29, 2015 by vaugahn

[miitss]

While you're at it please remove: The ability for it to pull items, soma, soma prime, guns in general, and fun

 

Make everything kill you in one hit and nerf every Warframe/weapon DE. How dare people play their own way! They must play *MY* way.

Edited May 29, 2015 by mitss79

[TheBrsrkr]

While you're at it please remove: The ability for it to pull items, soma, soma prime, guns in general, and fun

Care to exaggerate a bit more?

[Ironlixivium]

-snip-

 

 

     It's not nukes that are the problem, they're fine. It's how gmag allows you to sit there pressing 1 while you teammates press 4. DE has stated that this isn't playing the game.

 

     People who want nerfs and buffs aren't "nerfers and buffers", and they're not selfish idiots who want the game to be exactly how they want it like so many people see them as. We're just players trying to improve the game quality. When people present good points in this forum, regardless if they're against me or not, I try to be fairly open minded about them. I believe this is actually my first nerf thread, too. I don't mind if people play the game a different way than I do, it's that This is ruining the game, and that changing it will improve the game quality.

 

     If you people disagree, that's fine. Calling me selfish and saying I just don't want people to play a different way than I am? That's not fine. Why not try actually discussing it in a civilized manner?

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Meioti]

People seem to like to make it a convenience thing, like "OMG why do you like picking up drops", it's more of a gameplay thing. Being locked out of playing the game because you're designated lootframe is not fun, and it promotes that "I'm just here to grind" mentality that is currently so common in the community.

 'I'm just here to grind'-mentality.

We talkin Warframe rite lulz

No but seriously really, it IS a convenience thing, just look at the big picture of the whole damn game..

 

 

AI don't mind if people play the game a different way than I do, it's that I think this is ruining the game, and that changing it will improve the game quality.

 

If you people disagree, that's fine. Calling me selfish and saying I just don't want people to play a different way than I am? That's not fine. Why not try actually discussing it in a civilized manner?

So, in all honesty, what I would like to know. Lets say that GP got removed starting tomorrow, ofc people get mad, etcetc. But past that point, how do you think it would improve the game quality exactly? Because all I imagine is people still camping just without necessarily Mag but with other frames. With the only difference being: Either people running out of Frost's globe at the end of a Defense to get the items lying around, people moving 2 meters closer to a vortex to get the energy/lifesupport out of it. Globe & Vortex being just 2 quick examples here.

Star-chart is going to get an overhaul anyway so talkin Draco/Seimini or whatever random node is not of much use anymore I think to put as an example.

 

But how would that really improve the game quality? Or am I overlooking something else you mean? For me it would just be some convenience removed. And I highly doubt it would stop the Mesa-thing people hate, there are  alternatives that are not used.

Its not as if Mag is the only frame being able to make people camp :) 

[vaugahn]

No but seriously really, it IS a convenience thing, just look at the big picture of the whole damn game..

But how would that really improve the game quality? Or am I overlooking something else you mean?

 

Mag suffers from the same problem Nekros does: a "good" Mag player doesn't actually get to play the game. That's a gameplay design issue. 

 

Just removing GP doesn't fix anything though. People will bounce straight on to the next tactic. Fix the underlying problems, then we can talk about fixing GP. It's a poorly-designed augment, yes. It's not the actual problem here though.