Annihilation Has Become Cephelon Capture...explanation Follows

[Thalahssalyst]

SO what... Everyone in Halo had access to power ups and power weapons when the match started, but 90% of the time, the people that got to them first dictated how the match went because they knew spawn timers and such... This meant that matches were always one sided when there was just one power weapon or power up in the game. Now I'm not saying Halo was unbalanced, because it was among the most balanced games you could ever play, but Warframe abilities being accessible at all times as long as you have a pool of energy, and having zero cooldown means you can just for the most part spam certain abilities to win (now I'm not saying there aren't strategies to deal with spam, but it severely limits your options and it becomes more annoying than fun dealing with so much spam)... I for one am 100% in on some stronger abilities having higher cooldowns to prevent all the spam so that you use an ult as a strategic tide turner rather than an instant win button... like adding a 60 second cooldown to one shot ults, and 30 second cooldowns to highly damaging 1 abilities, this would at least make people think twice before using them...

We cant compare any game with warframe. Warframe its special and unique how is it.

About the "spamm" I cant spamm every 10 seconds, or every 1 minute, there are 8 players on the match, i am not the only one looking for energy.

If you know, there is people collecting energy around the map, you can prevent that, there is not 500 energy to spamm 5 times in a row, there is not 100 energy on all the maps, to cast it the complete match, there is 2 orbs, 3 or 4 depends of the map, and there is 8 players looking for energy, if you  are not, 7, the cooldown in abilities are the cooldown on energy, i dont see players casting abilities all the time as i say, i am not the only one who want RJ, there are 7 players more, with differents warframes.

People need time about how to counter energy collectors, no just come here and say "people press 4 spamming" it looks like in the map are x1000 energy to everyone and is not.

Take some time to practice on map control, and learn about the differents ways to play warframe, here is not only about shooting and press e...

 

EDIT:

On maps there is (on FFA for example im not going to talk on CtC because it looks like with the current speed, skills are the only way to stop a carrier) 75 energy for 8 players, every 45 seconds, energy surge start every 3 minutes if im not wrong, that is 150 energy between 8 players, if the player, manage that amount of energy and can spamm the times he want, men he is a great player if we have the consideration on everyone its looking for energy.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Grimlock-

[R3DBelmont456]

Actually it is... you forget to take into consideration that enemies also drop energy when defeated, and if someone was saving for their ult and has 75 energy in reserve and gets killed, then the person that just killed them gets a HUGE advantage, they can just keep spamming their skills, keep stealing energy, and the cycle repeats. This in turn leads to mass snowballing once you have a lead, weather you know the map or not, trust me on this... I use rhino in FFA all the time and even though most of my kills comes from the lex prime or MK-1 Braton, I've gotten plenty of double and triple kills from using rhino charge, stealing energy and using it again immediately after to kill the other person... and I then have enough energy for an iron skin, sometimes I purposefully waste some energy just to make sure I don't let ANYONE else take the dropped energy... 

 

Also your point about warframe being different is completely irrelevant, I don't care what kind of shooter warframe is, when it comes to the PvP aspect, competitive balance is competitive balance, and it is required no matter how different the game is... atm this mechanic is worse than CoD kill streaks because all it does is keep the leader in the lead without allowing any sort of comeback whatsoever, and even if a comeback happens it is through spam, there is no advantage given whatsoever to those behind, this is not really a competitive balance...

[-CM-Machete]

For your age, I don't know why are you trying to make Conclave good, it isn't, Conclave is about picking the current "Mr. Bison"  weapons/warframes, a child's play, so far, there were few popular ppl who were really good at it before the update like Rexsol, but the big majority of players just entered there and there were two options:

1. Total cheap rig playing the most skill-less way

2. Total noob who ragequits after being killed 5 times in a row.

 

And this went down when C2.0 started, but as soon as they got the resources, it turned again into what it was. Sorry, Warframe is not old-school, for the good and the bad. My first impression of Conclave 2.0 was also that one: it was funny, but as soon as I started seeing ppl using exploits  and  such I got turned off.

 

I didn't even thought an "experienced" gamer would ever look at Warframe, even less if we talk about its PvP, it's a game very alien to old game design where game and interfaces were meant to be fun and useful, respectively.

 

If DE wanted to have actual balance, this things would be already featured in conclave:

1. Mods wouldn't even be a thing in Conclave. So far, instead, they made them an integral part of it, if balancing weapons and warframes was already hard to achieve, adding micro-variables makes it way harder. 

 

2.Weapons would be really unique instead of having a big array of bad rifles, shotguns, pistols and then the couple of good weapons for each type.

 

3. Rage-quit and AFK-ing would be (heavily) punished because they screw entire matches (many times I ended up alone vs 2-3 players).

 

4. There would be proper matchmaking.

 

5. They would stop introducing new stuff and start to ACTUALLY balance what they currently have in instead of playing hot potato.

 

6. There would be dedicated servers.

 

Conclave is fine as it is, and it works as intended (at least it was what they intended when they first implemented Conclave 1.0): a temporal distraction from the main game. Maybe a couple of things still out of place (Hysteria, Kogake), but in general, it is what I expected it to be, Conclave 2.0 is barely more balanced than before, but still an overall improvement, so far I've been trying it recently, and the way of getting balanced match is the same I used to do: Private matches and pre-accorded rig, it is hard, but it is better, and no, even that way it isn't even close to any PvP focused shooter, asking such thing to Warframe is like trying to consider the bonus stages in Street Fighter as complete beat'em up games or asking the taxi missions in GTA to be as fun as Taxi Driver.

 

In conclave skill doesn't matter because 80% of your chances to win rely on your rig,  Kudos for the Valkyr I found using a bow (which isn't the easiest thing to aim) instead of spending 5 minutes avoiding confrontation to get enough energy for Hysteria and unleashing a game-changing chain of kills (because they get more energy from dead enemies). Try Insurgency, CS:GO, Overwatch, if you wan't good PvP, but don't try to save the guy who is trying to jump off cliff, at your age you should be trying to enjoy your life the most instead of worrying about things like this. Sorry for the wall of text. Cheers.

Edited June 4, 2015 by PersonalYisus

[R3DBelmont456]

I for one don't really like too much realism in shooters as that just kills any fun factor for me, I Grew up in the arcades as well as with arcade style shooters, so I like it when a game is completely over the top. Also Warframe is a lot more reminiscent of old school shooters than you think. Health pickups have been around since DOOM multiplayer, guns that go from weaker to stronger have as well... the DOOM meta didn't change til DOOM 2 where all the pros would use either the double barreled shotgun or the rocket launcher... 

 

regenerating health and shields didn't really officially come into play multiplayer wise until Halo: CE... and even then if you were good enough the ttk in that game was ridiculous, power weapons were a guaranteed kill depending on the type, distance or location where you hit, and the meta in general was the pistol, sniper or rocket launcher... Warframe to me feels a lot like a hybrid between Halo and arena shooters... Now I will agree that each warframe should be just as easily able to own as any other, but if you think about it as a class system like in Team Fortress 2 then it's not too bad of a system currently because each frame can be seen as a class... another thing that a lot of people don't take into consideration is that the reason shooters were balanced before is because everyone had one equal loadout to start with and they had to hunt for better weapons by searching the map in order to gain an edge, but not necessarily a win. So having access to personal loadouts at all times will always make multiplayer a random mess...

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

SO what... Everyone in Halo had access to power ups and power weapons when the match started, but 90% of the time, the people that got to them first dictated how the match went because they knew spawn timers and such... This meant that matches were always one sided when there was just one power weapon or power up in the game. Now I'm not saying Halo was unbalanced, because it was among the most balanced games you could ever play, but Warframe abilities being accessible at all times as long as you have a pool of energy, and having zero cooldown means you can just for the most part spam certain abilities to win (now I'm not saying there aren't strategies to deal with spam, but it severely limits your options and it becomes more annoying than fun dealing with so much spam)... I for one am 100% in on some stronger abilities having higher cooldowns to prevent all the spam so that you use an ult as a strategic tide turner rather than an instant win button... like adding a 60 second cooldown to one shot ults, and 30 second cooldowns to highly damaging 1 abilities, this would at least make people think twice before using them...

 

Actually it is... you forget to take into consideration that enemies also drop energy when defeated, and if someone was saving for their ult and has 75 energy in reserve and gets killed, then the person that just killed them gets a HUGE advantage, they can just keep spamming their skills, keep stealing energy, and the cycle repeats. This in turn leads to mass snowballing once you have a lead, weather you know the map or not, trust me on this... I use rhino in FFA all the time and even though most of my kills comes from the lex prime or MK-1 Braton, I've gotten plenty of double and triple kills from using rhino charge, stealing energy and using it again immediately after to kill the other person... and I then have enough energy for an iron skin, sometimes I purposefully waste some energy just to make sure I don't let ANYONE else take the dropped energy... 

 

Also your point about warframe being different is completely irrelevant, I don't care what kind of shooter warframe is, when it comes to the PvP aspect, competitive balance is competitive balance, and it is required no matter how different the game is... atm this mechanic is worse than CoD kill streaks because all it does is keep the leader in the lead without allowing any sort of comeback whatsoever, and even if a comeback happens it is through spam, there is no advantage given whatsoever to those behind, this is not really a competitive balance...

 

We cant compare any game with warframe. Warframe its special and unique how is it.

About the "spamm" I cant spamm every 10 seconds, or every 1 minute, there are 8 players on the match, i am not the only one looking for energy.

If you know, there is people collecting energy around the map, you can prevent that, there is not 500 energy to spamm 5 times in a row, there is not 100 energy on all the maps, to cast it the complete match, there is 2 orbs, 3 or 4 depends of the map, and there is 8 players looking for energy, if you  are not, 7, the cooldown in abilities are the cooldown on energy, i dont see players casting abilities all the time as i say, i am not the only one who want RJ, there are 7 players more, with differents warframes.

People need time about how to counter energy collectors, no just come here and say "people press 4 spamming" it looks like in the map are x1000 energy to everyone and is not.

Take some time to practice on map control, and learn about the differents ways to play warframe, here is not only about shooting and press e...

 

EDIT:

On maps there is (on FFA for example im not going to talk on CtC because it looks like with the current speed, skills are the only way to stop a carrier) 75 energy for 8 players, every 45 seconds, energy surge start every 3 minutes if im not wrong, that is 150 energy between 8 players, if the player, manage that amount of energy and can spamm the times he want, men he is a great player if we have the consideration on everyone its looking for energy.

 Op, I'm 40, will be 41 in Sept. Played 95% of all the games mentioned in this topic.

 

I can and will compare Warframe to other games. I'll use Mech Assault as the main example.

 

 

In Mechassault, power ups were scattered in key locations around the map.

Each power up could upgrade a different ability.

The power ups would rotate type based on a timer.

Each Mech dropped power ups(based on class) and Health.

 

We fought over power up locations and dropped power ups while playing the GT.

 

I hate saying get gud but..... please take the time to learn the Meta.

Edited June 5, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[AminusTek]

Oh, come on! Speed pickups is basics since Quake and Unreal series. Red Armor, Rocket Launcher can give you lots of kills too. But adding good COOLDOWN time on skills in Conclave sound like right logical solution to me. Less spaming more thinking.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

OP i get your idea, however with unbalanced hitboxes, weapons and questionable hit detection i dont see how only blades and guns would be enjoyable. Since delayed energy spam rates, ive been fine with energy pick-ups. But being DE, you cant do one good thing without doing 5 things wrong. Ash being there having one-hit kill(regardless of shields/health values) 2 shot fast travelling tracking ability costing only 25 energy is beyond broken.

[-InV-igo95862]

OP i get your idea, however with unbalanced hitboxes, weapons and questionable hit detection i dont see how only blades and guns would be enjoyable. Since delayed energy spam rates, ive been fine with energy pick-ups. But being DE, you cant do one good thing without doing 5 things wrong. Ash being there having one-hit kill(regardless of shields/health values) 2 shot fast travelling tracking ability costing only 25 energy is beyond broken.

Ash is not supposed to be in PvP. It is bugged on consoles.

[DiosGX]

Okay first off, wow you're old enough to be my grandpa and you play Warframe. You're awesome.

 

Secondly, I agree, and agree with a small hillock of chagrin because I find myself gang-rushing and camping for 15~ seconds at energy spawns at times. In fairness, I play Oberon and to me an energy orb is 75HP restored to my entire team, ergo it is a tremendous benefit to the entire team if I can keep up. It only takes a single orb to cast, ergo a single orb is virtually a full heal to a team.

 

That said, I think we should keep surplus energy that doesn't add up to an orb to be dropped upon our death. This would leave us with a piddling amount of energy to be used for channeling which is quite frankly the most damaging use of energy IMO. A channeled ground slam from a Gram is horrifying.

 

I really think energy needs a rework. In so much as, orbs should be there on a game starting and not respawn at all until the Energy Surge begins. Leave the intro of the match more based around gunplay, parkour and melee prowess. It's like... God I hate using this analogy, in a MOBA... your ULT isn't ready to be cast as soon as the game starts. There's the calm before the storm before the big skills start coming out, but the way it is currently, a swift staff user can easily have 75 energy within 15 seconds of any map.

 

I do think that energy you gain from PVP mods should remain upon your respawning. The full shield recharge and on-kill stuff. Yeah, I think people earn that energy gain, and it takes a while for it to pay off in any meaningful way. But the energy orb camping and denial has definitely become too much of an issue... an issue in which the only way to fight back is to also do it too.

 

Vicious circle.

 

 

OP i get your idea, however with unbalanced hitboxes, weapons and questionable hit detection i dont see how only blades and guns would be enjoyable. Since delayed energy spam rates, ive been fine with energy pick-ups. But being DE, you cant do one good thing without doing 5 things wrong. Ash being there having one-hit kill(regardless of shields/health values) 2 shot fast travelling tracking ability costing only 25 energy is beyond broken.

That's an easy solution. Make it deal 25 damage and inflict a bleed proc 40% of the time. It's still deadly without being stupid, and random enough to not be abused.

Edited June 6, 2015 by DiosGX

[CY13ERPUNK]

+9999 OP

 

revamped PVP is great, and a dedicated team is nice

 

but we STILL dont have custom PVP match rules, ie pistols only, or melee only, etc

 

of course we really still dont have a viable matchmaking system either, that would need to happen first, ie there is no way to search for hosts nor is there a list of available matches