Was Taking Out The Dark Sector A Good Idea, When The 2.0(3.0) Version Is No Where To Be Seen?

[Buzkyl]

 See, obviously either you didn't participate in wars while they were on, or the factions going to war on PC are just super cheap bums. We would hand out 50-100k battle pay, and in the course a couple months of playing wars, I was able to build myself well over 10 million creditslol. And since wars have stopped, I have played less missions than I have fingers on 1 hand, and still have well over 10 million credits lol. The tax we instated on nodes of 15%, could be played all day long and if you came to participate in just 1 battle during our wars, you would receive all of those taxes back, and probly another 2x-3x more extra... and that is just for 1 battle. I don't know how it went on PC, but the purpose of our taxes, was to earn credits to give back during wars to the community, and we have done that for a long time.

 

 

Well that sound very dandy.

 

On PC however the top 5 largest alliances (ICE, V LoTE ect ect) were more or less shuffling nodes around each other. It was very much evident as these conflicts for days straight offered little to no pay. There was almost no competition between them as mostly everyone gave up and pvp back then especially turned people away.

 

So the incentive to even participate in it was gone. Occasionally you'd get the small clan or alliance that fought their heart out to earn a node and offer very good battlepay, but either their pay was out bid by the large alliances (because PC folks can be bribed by large credits, easily) or they won but didn't keep it for long.

 

 

Could XB1 be different? Maybe? But the system any less abusable, from rail stalling to batlepay baiting it honestly brought more bad to the community than good.

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

Well that sound very dandy.

 

On PC however the top 5 largest alliances (ICE, V LoTE ect ect) were more or less shuffling nodes around each other. It was very much evident as these conflicts for days straight offered little to no pay. There was almost no competition between them as mostly everyone gave up and pvp back then especially turned people away.

 

So the incentive to even participate in it was gone. Occasionally you'd get the small clan or alliance that fought their heart out to earn a node and offer very good battlepay, but either their pay was out bid by the large alliances (because PC folks can be bribed by large credits, easily) or they won but didn't keep it for long.

 

 

Could XB1 be different? Maybe? But the system any less abusable, from rail stalling to batlepay baiting it honestly brought more bad to the community than good.

 

 Well that is just unfortunate, but to me, it sounds like your guy's solar system is ripe for the taking. I know all about not being established and getting a foot in the door. I started with a faction on Xbox, The Order, who ended up by the time we left, owning 16 Solar Rail nodes. We left that faction in January, and through hard work, planning, relationship/allegiance building, ect... by March we owned 6 of their nodes, and before the Armistice had shut down, we now own 9. The Order on the other hand, now owns 2 nodes. IT CAN BE DONE! You guys just have to make it happen. Have a true leader who puts the time in with the planning and politics moresoe than the playing. Hell... I will sell my services and consult for anyone for a small fee... maybe a couple thousand plat? Haha jk. But for real, if the factions in control are greedy, take them out. If they have absurd taxes, chances are they aren't making all that much money since no one will play their nodes.... build up a few hundred million credits and rally your troops for weeks before hand to get them pumped for the day when it finally happens... then go get it!

[MagPrime]

 Well that is just unfortunate, but to me, it sounds like your guy's solar system is ripe for the taking. I know all about not being established and getting a foot in the door. I started with a faction on Xbox, The Order, who ended up by the time we left, owning 16 Solar Rail nodes. We left that faction in January, and through hard work, planning, relationship/allegiance building, ect... by March we owned 6 of their nodes, and before the Armistice had shut down, we now own 9. The Order on the other hand, now owns 2 nodes. IT CAN BE DONE! You guys just have to make it happen. Have a true leader who puts the time in with the planning and politics moresoe than the playing. Hell... I will sell my services and consult for anyone for a small fee... maybe a couple thousand plat? Haha jk. But for real, if the factions in control are greedy, take them out. If they have absurd taxes, chances are they aren't making all that much money since no one will play their nodes.... build up a few hundred million credits and rally your troops for weeks before hand to get them pumped for the day when it finally happens... then go get it!

All the PC players that would be interested in doing any of that, already are doing such for the existing alliances and clans that are in control.

[druul]

This was said before, but warframe was never intended to be pvp.  It originally was supposed to be only PvE, but all the xbox guys didn't get the game until long after dark sectors came about.  Even DE said that DS was a failed pvp game mode, and that they had to put it on lock-down to stop people from utilizing it "to their advantage" (apparently I like the word "exploit" too much and should hold back from using it lol).  It may have been warframe for you, but remember that it wasn't the original idea that was created.  If people are seriously leaving because of the pvp being put on hold, I would argue that they need to get their priorities straight.  If they came into warframe strictly for the pvp, I wonder what the reasons behind that were?  reinforcements from people you know?  Are you running a unit that is active in other games, and you just pulled people in?  or are the people you're hiring out for the power and might?  A real warframe player recognizes that the game was supposed to be PvE and doesn't rage quit because of a broken system that DE is trying to fix.  Might want to fix your player base for recruiting so your unit can keep thriving.... or actually lead them and give them direction outside of PvP so they don't get bored.  

PriZms,

 

       You are not getting the real reason of why people are leaving. Dark Sector brought unity of clans and alliances working together to fight for a common goal. Your answer to just play the current pvp conglave pulls you off topic. everyone including the pvpr's benefit in these huge battles. Regardless what the intent of DE, they stop to a halt what was a vibrant thriving community to stagnation.

[Storchenbein]

 Well that is just unfortunate, but to me, it sounds like your guy's solar system is ripe for the taking. I know all about not being established and getting a foot in the door. I started with a faction on Xbox, The Order, who ended up by the time we left, owning 16 Solar Rail nodes. We left that faction in January, and through hard work, planning, relationship/allegiance building, ect... by March we owned 6 of their nodes, and before the Armistice had shut down, we now own 9. The Order on the other hand, now owns 2 nodes. IT CAN BE DONE! You guys just have to make it happen. Have a true leader who puts the time in with the planning and politics moresoe than the playing. Hell... I will sell my services and consult for anyone for a small fee... maybe a couple thousand plat? Haha jk. But for real, if the factions in control are greedy, take them out. If they have absurd taxes, chances are they aren't making all that much money since no one will play their nodes.... build up a few hundred million credits and rally your troops for weeks before hand to get them pumped for the day when it finally happens... then go get it!

 

You're being a bit too optimistic with that one. On PC, all the alliances have their vault at the cap. Now let's say you scrape together 250 million credits through member contributions and plan an attack. Let me tell you this, you'll get utterly destroyed. They have over 2 billion credits at their disposal and if they intend to hold the node, they will.

 

Now, you could say that repeated attacks could drain them of their resources. That might be true, but there arises the next problem: rail blocking. The allied alliances will repeatedly block each other's rails  to prevent any actual attacks, thus making you lose oppurtunities to drain them of their resources and giving them time to recover.

 

Facing all that garbage, many alliances just didn't even want to try it anymore. We aren't going to fight a tank by throwing rocks at it.

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

All the PC players that would be interested in doing any of that, already are doing such for the existing alliances and clans that are in control.

 

Strange how a community that outnumbers us on Xbox 1 by what I am guessing is 10 fold ATLEAST, has troubles putting together an Alliance worthy of competing. We have 3 strong Alliance who have proven their ability by conquering recently, and a handful of "come-up" Alliances, all which I see as having a shot at placing themselves on the Dark Sectors if they are to make the right moves with their attacks and relationship building among other factions... 1 more good Alliance should be able to be put together from what you guys have out there unclaimed.

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

You're being a bit too optimistic with that one. On PC, all the alliances have their vault at the cap. Now let's say you scrape together 250 million credits through member contributions and plan an attack. Let me tell you this, you'll get utterly destroyed. They have over 2 billion credits at their disposal and if they intend to hold the node, they will.

 

Now, you could say that repeated attacks could drain them of their resources. That might be true, but there arises the next problem: rail blocking. The allied alliances will repeatedly block each other's rails  to prevent any actual attacks, thus making you lose oppurtunities to drain them of their resources and giving them time to recover.

 

Facing all that garbage, many alliances just didn't even want to try it anymore. We aren't going to fight a tank by throwing rocks at it.

 

I understand that mentality, trust me... I have been on both sides of having the credits in the Billions, and then leaving that side to fight them with but 300 million credits. I know how it works because I have done it! You don't have to actually make it a multi-battle... just pre-plan and pre-hype the war for weeks to come while gathering funds. Make sure everybody knows why they are there in that Alliance, and the time will come when you need them all to fight, no matter what the pay is for you or against you. Its on the Alliance leader to find the right Clans and Clan leaders to work with. People who can inspire others to fight for the cause. Hell I can pull up an example of one of our Alliances pulling off a conquer vs another established Alliance in the a.m. hours (Midnight - Noon), and doing it virtually unfunded! They did end up giving out like 20 million credits or something, but that was for appreciation for their dedicated members who ran all night.

 

 Bottom line of what I am getting at is, it is possible and the only thing holding anyone back, is the fact that they would probably rather play the game than deal with enough work to be called an actual job, and that is all good. It takes a certain personality type to lead an Alliance, which is another reason why I think some of these "leaders" get so upset. They think they can casually play this game and still compete with hardcore Alliances... You are either going to commit yourself to the cause you seek, or you may as well just stop before you even start planing. There is no "I am just gonna play a couple missions... then I will go recruit", because while you played those missions, someone else was recruiting already... and by the time you got around to it, they are STILL recruiting. Same goes for every aspect of Alliances; Strategizing, recruiting, training, relation building (among other Alliances, friendly and enemy), and motivating. That is what it takes to win, and casual gamers just won't be able to put all those efforts required from a leadership stand point.

Edited June 5, 2015 by (XB1)Xodus03

[ToxicTroublermaker]

Wow there is a ton of elitism and such from both the exploiting alliances and those who recognize and call out the exploits.

Those alliances did not "work" to get where they were. They used the games own system to exploit the community and keep it all to themselves. Hardly anyone ever held the DS other than the same people just juggling it between eachother

[S.T.M.P.D]

Well that sound very dandy.

On PC however the top 5 largest alliances (ICE, V LoTE ect ect) were more or less shuffling nodes around each other. It was very much evident as these conflicts for days straight offered little to no pay. There was almost no competition between them as mostly everyone gave up and pvp back then especially turned people away.

So the incentive to even participate in it was gone. Occasionally you'd get the small clan or alliance that fought their heart out to earn a node and offer very good battlepay, but either their pay was out bid by the large alliances (because PC folks can be bribed by large credits, easily) or they won but didn't keep it for long.

Could XB1 be different? Maybe? But the system any less abusable, from rail stalling to batlepay baiting it honestly brought more bad to the community than good.

See, that's what I remember - a problematic PvP system accompanied by Orwellian perpetual warfare to prevent other clans/alliances to shove in, and when they did, they got their behinds whupped. A lot of people just didn't care enough to unite and take back the rails, honestly.

Now I'm not arguing that Dark Sectors were bad! They were a brilliant concept for a PvP endgame(or at least better than Tryhards of Thornsiris in Destiny)! I just think that maybe the devs thought they'd seen enough problems going on in the gamemode (see: the five alliance rail-shifting system) that they decided to take it out and examine it under a microscope, both the gamemode itself and the interclan politics. Considering that DE's track record has improved greatly as of late, I think when it comes back it will be much better.

So I guess if people genuinely quit the game because of no more Dark Sectors then that's kinda tough, but the game's a WIP all told, one that sometimes needs to get touched and fixed and played around with to improve overall player experience. Starchart 3.0 is coming up soon, so maybe reworking Dark Sectors is part of reworking the starchart? I honestly don't know what we're arguing about here; nothing is being destroyed for good here.

Edited June 5, 2015 by S.T.M.P.D

[-InV-Skitz0]

Wow there is a ton of elitism and such from both the exploiting alliances and those who recognize and call out the exploits.

Those alliances did not "work" to get where they were. They used the games own system to exploit the community and keep it all to themselves. Hardly anyone ever held the DS other than the same people just juggling it between eachother

Your delusional if you dont think running a major alliance or keeping a rail going is a sh*t ton of work. These are not turn key operations and take thousands of man hours to maintain. And if being proud in my clan/alliance for working hard and achivng a goal makes me an elitist then I am guilty as charged.

 

You're being a bit too optimistic with that one. On PC, all the alliances have their vault at the cap. Now let's say you scrape together 250 million credits through member contributions and plan an attack. Let me tell you this, you'll get utterly destroyed. They have over 2 billion credits at their disposal and if they intend to hold the node, they will.

 

Now, you could say that repeated attacks could drain them of their resources. That might be true, but there arises the next problem: rail blocking. The allied alliances will repeatedly block each other's rails  to prevent any actual attacks, thus making you lose oppurtunities to drain them of their resources and giving them time to recover.

 

Facing all that garbage, many alliances just didn't even want to try it anymore. We aren't going to fight a tank by throwing rocks at it.

Caps are well above 2 billion on alliance vaults.

 

And in order to place a block you must first grind vs that node in a conflict to reduce your armistice time so that you can deploy before the opposition. So any block you have ever seen meant that  organization actually had to run against that rail at some point in order to gain more affinity then the rest of the game.

 

So if your clan or alliance can not even organize well enough to farm a greater reduction in armistice then my blocker does who only spends 30 mins to an hour at the end of a battle, then yes you are correct. that 250 million will do nothing for you because you dont have the manpower to back it up and put it to good use.

[TheBrsrkr]

I know you guys are typing up a storm to make your points, but could you please snip the quotes? It takes a rather long time to get from point to point right now and 20 comments per page never seemed so long before.

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

Yeah the thread is getting quite long indeed 

[-Kryptyk-]

PriZms,

 

       You are not getting the real reason of why people are leaving. Dark Sector brought unity of clans and alliances working together to fight for a common goal. Your answer to just play the current pvp conglave pulls you off topic. everyone including the pvpr's benefit in these huge battles. Regardless what the intent of DE, they stop to a halt what was a vibrant thriving community to stagnation.

No, I got it. I've played with you before and everyone on your team speak. I've seen that community.

If that's your main concern, then all I'm saying is there's ways to keep everyone involved with each other. Think outside the box a little

[-Kryptyk-]

Yeah the thread is getting quite long indeed

Says the one who wanted to "keep the fire going" hahaha (they got rid of my gifs, btw... I is sad now) Edited June 6, 2015 by PriZms

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

Says the one who wanted to "keep the fire going" hahaha (they got rid of my gifs, btw... I is sad now)

of course the long heated debate between the clashing of alliances is pretty interesting as far as perspective goes. But noo senpai why take away gifs :(

Edited June 6, 2015 by StrikerSaint

[-Kryptyk-]

of course the long heated debate between the clashing of alliances is pretty interesting as far as perspective goes. But noo senpai why take away gifs :(

I don't think DE Danielle likes me after posting a thread of hail hydras... </3

I didn't just say that....

You saw nothing....

Hail Hydra....

Fudge...

It's engraved in my brain at this point.

But anyway, eh, I'm honestly sick of the debate. It's been the same thing for years.

Edited June 6, 2015 by PriZms

[(PSN)D4rk50ul-v2]

The purpose they were implemented for was to ease some of the farming, hence why DS has higher drops on everything.

They added the increased drop rates were to offset the taxes they assumed would be imposed on the nodes. The intention was to create a large scale persistent war system and it was largely a success.

If you don't like how everything turned out as far as ownership/taxea/etc you should try doing something about it. Pretty sure forum posts won't kill a rail.

Also to those crying that Warframe was a PVE only game kill all the PVP. All successful long term franchises with multi-player have PVP, it keeps players interested. Warframe is not a hard game to play, there is very little that is a challenge PVE wise. Wars is what kept everyone active and turning it on, now they are turning on other games occasionally logging on to beat the new content in a few days time and leave again.

You can think what you want, but I am positive DE has seen a huge drop in hours played per week across all platforms.

Edited June 6, 2015 by (PS4)D4rk50ul-v2

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

They added the increased drop rates were to offset the taxes they assumed would be imposed on the nodes. The intention was to create a large scale persistent war system and it was largely a success.

If you don't like how everything turned out as far as ownership/taxea/etc you should try doing something about it. Pretty sure forum posts won't kill a rail.

Also to those crying that Warframe was a PVE only game kill all the PVP. All successful long term franchises with multi-player have PVP, it keeps players interested. Warframe is not a hard game to play, there is very little that is a challenge PVE wise. Wars is what kept everyone active and turning it on, now they are turning on other games occasionally logging on to beat the new content in a few days time and leave again.

You can think what you want, but I am positive DE has seen a huge drop in hours played per week across all platforms.

Exactly! See it's happening on every platform not only on PC. There is a trend here and that is the situation at hand!

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

I don't think DE Danielle likes me after posting a thread of hail hydras... </3

I didn't just say that....

You saw nothing....

Hail Hydra....

Fudge...

It's engraved in my brain at this point.

But anyway, eh, I'm honestly sick of the debate. It's been the same thing for years.

You set yourself up for that lol, but yeah the debate has been going on for some while and you know what? It doesn't matter how both parties complain about each other anymore since we're all elitist -_-. And to ToxicTroubleMaker buddy i remember you for spamming Orion Alliance chat, but to your comment if the alliances did not do any work to keep the rail then we wouldn't be here discussing this now are we? Besides when we really need to fight on a rail we actaully have to do work and go fight. And to everyone saying that the alliances all have credit capped well don't forget about building rails, keeping them maintained, and all other stuff for individual clans, but if it's battle pay like I said if the community gives up on trying when they have a chance or an OPPORTUNITY to take a rail then does it make it any better to complain? I don't think so. Edited June 6, 2015 by StrikerSaint

[(PSN)D4rk50ul-v2]

Exactly! See it's happening on every platform not only on PC. There is a trend here and that is the situation at hand!

We aren't the monopolizing tyrant alliance on PS4, more like the Giant killers. Currently we lost our rails due to an "inventive way to ensure victory" but that doesn't change the fact that rails need to come back and fast. Tweak the system a bit, make the exploits not work, but don't put this on the back burner.

Want to know what a clan full of MR19 guys do when all they ever did was rails and events? Watch activity drop to 50% of what it was and people taking about new games they might be stuck on. Raids aren't going to satisfy the void left when the Armistice hit, they are a minor time sink. Events don't happen often enough and take zero grind these days. Win or lose the part of the game that a ton of people enjoyed is MIA and the most common fear is how badly they will mess up what we felt was pretty great.

Edited June 6, 2015 by (PS4)D4rk50ul-v2

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

We aren't the monopolizing tyrant alliance on PS4, more like the Giant killers. Currently we lost our rails due to an "inventive way to ensure victory" but that doesn't change the fact that rails need to come back and fast. Tweak the system a bit, make the exploits not work, but don't put this on the back burner.

Want to know what a clan full of MR19 guys do when all they ever did was rails and events? Watch activity drop to 50% of what it was and people taking about new games they might be stuck on. Raids aren't going to satisfy the void left when the Armistice hit, they are a minor time sink. Events don't happen often enough and take zero grind these days. Win or lose the part of the game that a ton of people enjoyed is MIA and the most common fear is how badly they will mess up what we felt was pretty great.

 

 We have been the "Giant Killers" ourselves once... and the Tyrant twice... trust me when I say that after you take out the "Bad Guys"... there will be no one else but you to take their role lol. Doesn't matter what kind of policies you enforce (short of 0% taxes), or how much you give back...  you will be looked at as the greedy group who wants it all.

 

 To answer your question... they do exactly what you have said. A portion will leave, a portion will hesitantly stay, and a few will may just leave your clan thinking it is an interior clan problem (lol)... but they usually come back. Unfortunately a good portion of those who leave the game in general, won't come back. Rails were the answer to a system sustainable in activity and entertainment no matter your level or if you have reached the cap... unfortunately they are gone for now, like many of the people.

 

 If you think that not having rails hasn't killed off a number of the community, there is a way to test this, and I have done it myself and urge anyone interested to do so... You will have to have 2 people sacrifice a couple days of gaming after a leaderboard reset.

1. 1 person does not kill ANYTHING for a couple of days, making sure that they have 0 Kills for the kill leaderboard.

2. 1 person gets 1 SINGLE KILL, and only 1.

3.Wait 1-3 days (or how ever many you want to use to test by), and check the KILL leaderboards and see the Gap between 0 kills and 1 kill in your community (Keeping in mind that there will still be people who are not being measured due to placement on the leaderboard, so the number is even higher than what you come up with)

 

Everyone and anyone who thinks that the community isn't dying on their console, I urge to do this test and see how many people have 0 kills mid week after a Leaderboard reset. Also able to be used to gauge the total size of the community, including the ones who don't play at all anymore. 

Edited June 6, 2015 by (XB1)Xodus03

[druul]

Hmmmm,

 

 

              Question:  Without having an argument about taxes, fairness and/or monopolies. Since the Dark Sectors was put into undetermined Armistice, have you seen a significant amount of clan member AFK's or clan stagnation? Can you explain why? Meaning, talking to your members and clans?

[-Kryptyk-]

Hmmmm,

 

 

              Question:  Without having an argument about taxes, fairness and/or monopolies. Since the Dark Sectors was put into undetermined Armistice, have you seen a significant amount of clan member AFK's or clan stagnation? Can you explain why? Meaning, talking to your members and clans?

For me? Nope. All my members have joined because they want to get into dark sectors. Have they asked about when they'll come back online? Sure, but they are patient and have been finding other things to do, whether it's continuing to build their arsenals or conclave. That's the thing. We're all basically ready, but DS aren't consuming us, at least just yet. Patience is something I teach them.

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

We have been the "Giant Killers" ourselves once... and the Tyrant twice... trust me when I say that after you take out the "Bad Guys"... there will be no one else but you to take their role lol. Doesn't matter what kind of policies you enforce (short of 0% taxes), or how much you give back... you will be looked at as the greedy group who wants it all.

To answer your question... they do exactly what you have said. A portion will leave, a portion will hesitantly stay, and a few will may just leave your clan thinking it is an interior clan problem (lol)... but they usually come back. Unfortunately a good portion of those who leave the game in general, won't come back. Rails were the answer to a system sustainable in activity and entertainment no matter your level or if you have reached the cap... unfortunately they are gone for now, like many of the people.

If you think that not having rails hasn't killed off a number of the community, there is a way to test this, and I have done it myself and urge anyone interested to do so... You will have to have 2 people sacrifice a couple days of gaming after a leaderboard reset.

1. 1 person does not kill ANYTHING for a couple of days, making sure that they have 0 Kills for the kill leaderboard.

2. 1 person gets 1 SINGLE KILL, and only 1.

3.Wait 1-3 days (or how ever many you want to use to test by), and check the KILL leaderboards and see the Gap between 0 kills and 1 kill in your community (Keeping in mind that there will still be people who are not being measured due to placement on the leaderboard, so the number is even higher than what you come up with)

Everyone and anyone who thinks that the community isn't dying on their console, I urge to do this test and see how many people have 0 kills mid week after a Leaderboard reset. Also able to be used to gauge the total size of the community, including the ones who don't play at all anymore.

Hmmm interesting test might have to do it.

[Fraank]

It was a kind of fun to play the 99%-tax-super-villain-of-the-warframe-universe. I really enjoyed it

Making some cool gifs like this: http://gifyoutube.com/gif/v95Dbo (with sound!) to brag and show presence on the forums.

According to some "negative" posts about 99% taxes it worked quite well to band ppl together to fight for/against me this way.

 

Anyways, what i see since the DS is dead is that a significant amount of players do not play warframe a lot/anymore.

 

#bringDarkSectorsback