Help Me Understand Infested Ancients

[MartianJellyfish]

I was going to post this on the Corrupted Ancient topic but felt it would be too long of a post. I'll try to at least break it into small paragraphs for a better read.

 

For too long I've been wondering about the Ancients. Some said they were originated from plants, others said they were once human. I've always felt there was something else about them, and I think I've finally figured it out, partially.

 

From the latest Synthesis lore entry, we had the confirmation that Ancient Healers are the result of the Infestation taking over an Orokin Lorist with regenerative capabilities, possibly thanks to a device they had installed in their bodies. (If you haven't already, you can read the full entry at Simaris, or here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/469958-corrupted-ancient-synthesis-lore-is-out/ . I'll proceed with the assumption you've read it all.)

 

This led me back to a conversation I had with Morec0 some time ago, where he tried to convince me there was a human skull in the Ancient's head - something I wasn't so sure about back then. You can find the full posts here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/453090-arid-eviscerator-is-done/?p=5066720 , but I'll quote below the main ideas from it:

 

No I mean like an actual legit skull shape coming out of the side of their head. There's at least one image of it out there, somewhere, I'll try to find it and post it.

 

 

Here's one. It's broken in half, but it's there.

 

 

The face, mostly the eyehole.

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/91/54/36/91543680ce92e6c02d871118a7781bd5.jpg

 

Mentally break that so it's now centered along the left eye and the similarity is shocking.

 

Rethinking my stance on the subject, I decided to spawn a good friend of mine while mindlessly hunting the new Synthesis target, and made a little photoshoot session with her (yes, I've always called Ancients "her" for whatever reason, guess I was right all along, hah). Pictures in spoiler due to size, please forgive my peasant graphics:

There she is. Ramballa Eximus in all her glory. You can see the distinct whitened structure on the side of her head.

 

However, from the left side, the structure looks smaller, somewhat flattened. This makes the Ancient's "face" asymetrical. From an upper view, said asymetry becomes more obvious, as well as other details:

 

You can see the Ancients have a different texture on their heads, the skin there doesn't look as smooth as it does in the rest of their bodies. (I don't see a significance to this though.) On the second picture, you can also see the shape of the Ancient's left arm, which, despite the long tendril-like fingers, is also distinctly human.

 

Based on this, I've gone back to the lore entry. From Ontella's description of herself and Ramballa:

 

We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies

 

Lora nodes protuding from right temples. Could this be? Could the asymetrical shape on the side of the Ancient's head be the "Lora node" from Ramballa's head when she was infested? (I know we can't tell what a Lora node is or what it looked like, but, yeah.)

 

Now, for the reason I couldn't just go and accept the Ancients were purely a human body taken over by Infested flesh: the shell.

 

How does an Infested creature that was once human end up with such an appearance? It has tentacles on its face, and a shell on its back. It's been speculated on the lore entry thread that this "shell" could be the Lora device worn by Orokin Lorists, and I don't think this is right or wrong, I just kept telling myself something didn't make sense. And, well, it still doesn't. Look at the picture above again. Now, look at this one:

 

You know what those are? Barnacles. Yep. Barnacles that only grow on hard surfaces that have been submersed long enough for them to find them, attach to them and start reproducing on them. Soooo... I don't think Ancients are "just Infested humans". Which makes me wonder if Ramballa actually had her body "consumed" and incorporated into another Infested creature, rather than becoming an Infested unit herself. That could mean "Ancients" already existed for a long time before they were found by Ontella, but only became Healers with the appearance we see today after assimilating Ramballa.

 

Call me wrong, add to these theories, bring your own ideas... Discuss!

Edited June 6, 2015 by MartianJellyfish

[Blackout751]

This was definitely enlightening. Before now, I'd never looked at Ancients too closely but seeing the skull there definitely makes them... more human, more threatening than the Cthulhu cosplay visage they have. I just have one question for everyone to wonder - if Lorists were assimilated into another Infested creature resulting in the Healer Ancient, what did they originally look like? Who or what was that Infested creature originally before it consumed a Lorist?

[Hustler-One]

Bernacles yeah... So Ancients come from water ?

[Senketsu_]

I think is says that they have the Lora Device on their backs, so that would explain the Ancients backpacks.

[TheBrsrkr]

Well.

That's still bloody terrifying.

[MartianJellyfish]

This was definitely enlightening. Before now, I'd never looked at Ancients too closely but seeing the skull there definitely makes them... more human, more threatening than the Cthulhu cosplay visage they have. I just have one question for everyone to wonder - if Lorists were assimilated into another Infested creature resulting in the Healer Ancient, what did they originally look like? Who or what was that Infested creature originally before it consumed a Lorist?

 

Bernacles yeah... So Ancients come from water ?

 

I don't know, but to me this shows Ancients could be some sort of sea life turned Infested.

 

I think is says that they have the Lora Device on their backs, so that would explain the Ancients backpacks.

 

But why or how would it be covered in barnacles?

[themartinc123]

Clearly space barnacles can grow every where...

D: On no, my lizet

[BaneOfOrion]

perhaps ancients are formed when an infested human is consumed within a larger infested form. both lephantis and the juggernaut, as well as the boilers can spawn lesser infested, perhaps these organisms are actually inside these creatures, being converted into a superior form of the infestation. think of it like the total mutations in resident evil 6.

[themartinc123]

Snip~

So polymer-infested is the nature of heavy infested units?

[Leavith]

So i might be reading to much into this but lets just say ancients were not just inspired to look well what they were but that their context has an origin based on animals that live today so i decided to do a quick google search on What group of animals Have the most efficient regeneration.

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0768606.html

And so i get this results from the the 1st website and i am like well if u were gonna make a weapon out of biological tissue something that can regenerate and then well i looked up a little on barnacles since i have no info on that animal and well i get this.[

 

 

Barnacles are encrusters, attaching themselves permanently to a hard substrate. The most common, "acorn barnacles" (

 

 

Sessilia), are sessile, growing their shells directly onto the substrate.^[2] The order Pedunculata ("goose barnacles" and others) attach themselves by means of a stalk.^[2]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Pollicipes_pollicipes.jpg

so i find this picture of this barnacle and if anyone seen any infested map what those this remind u off.

 

SO i have theory as we have seen both grineer look alike infested and corpus look alike infested both spawn out of the same pods right.

so i was wondering why is that so.Well what if we look at the infested in a more animal like sense.

Let say he is like a parasite not just a virus.As we know this virus is transmittable ,by apparently wounds or something like contact.

But as we know this virus twist living tissue into well the infested.But what if their is a slower process that includes dead tissue.Well this dead tissue being twisted by the virus to create an organism that latches himself unto other organism to create a mix between a parasite and the host and well since they are both infested tissue it would make since if one would calcified(dead tissue)making some form of armor and the other one would gain the dead tissue(power i am gonna call it power) meaning the different type of ancients.

I might have not read the story well,but one of the lorist was presume dead cause well she did not feel her twin but then she could feel her again but she was an infested and well if we presume that the infested that are ancients are recycling dead cell organism and that they invaded the special organism like the lorist we can presume that those special organism power gets recycled over and over again which allows for ancients to keep spawning since we know them not to spawn from pods.

SO i feel like the key to this might actaully be looking around for anything looking suspicious in an infested ship

and well lets just say that the living virus twist grineer and corpuses to distoreted creatures but with funcitonality,while the virus when it find dead cells it changes them into a parasitic organism that looks for living host but instead of the host being distorted it looks for unity were it find with the results we get an ancient.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Leavith

[vaugahn]

I think we're reading the wrong direction into that ending.

 

It's less "Ramballa's consciousness jumps from ancient to ancient" and more "the infested have reproduced Ramballa's lifesigns/genetic structure to use it towards their own ends".

[naardejood]

Edit: >_<

Edited June 6, 2015 by naardejood

[Xrkr]

Considering the Orokin people's love of syandanas, I thought the longer arm of an ancient looked similar to a syandana. Mutated and fused to the ancient's body and then used to slap their enemies.

[Aizeol]

I always thought that the whole point with the ancients was that they have been infested for so long and mutated so much, they almost have a completely infested design.

 

 

Basically, the Ancients have been infested for so long, there is barely anything left of the host and what remains is a collection of parts the Infested hivemind has cobbled together.

[Leavith]

well AIzeol have u read the codex sanctuary entry for ancient it read about a person who went missing or got killed i forget early and then their was ancient who was sporting her power on the next wave of attacks. So it can still be collection of parts but i don't think they are just infested for so long but something ancient that turns something into a specific ancient infested

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

Dude your one smart dude. Good job o.O

[Lightsmith]

Seeing as how this event happened some 300 years ago, shortly after the fall of the Orokin is my guess, I'd say they weren't originally looking like they do now, but they've become more and more mutated over the years. Most other infested we fight seem to be newer Corpus and what not. (Although Corpus did exist way back then too)

 

I always thought that the whole point with the ancients was that they have been infested for so long and mutated so much, they almost have a completely infested design.

 

 

Basically, the Ancients have been infested for so long, there is barely anything left of the host and what remains is a collection of parts the Infested hivemind has cobbled together.

I concur This event clearly happened a long time ago, and these Lora most likely don't exist. Only two possibilities then, all the Ancients we fight are infested Lora from way back when, or they originally infested a Lora and have sense used that genetic template to reproduce the infested version.

 

It could also be that the "base material" of the Ancient (Healer) is still intact somewhere and the Ancients we fight are duplicates that are made from it. In that case what we fight may not fully resemble the infected host.

 

The "clones" of each other could sense each other, but they were also modified. If an unmodified clone were mass produced they could have the same appearance as the original which is why the person in the lore couldn't tell the difference. Of course they were modified by the infested, but that change didn't affect whatever identifier these Lora had with each other.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Lightsmith

[EL_MaTad0ReBR]

 

 

You know what those are? Barnacles.

 

 

The trypophobia man, it's messing with my thinking

[Soulgazer]

"Yep. Barnacles that only grow on hard surfaces that have been submersed long enough for them to find them, attach to them and start reproducing on them. "

 

 

Orrrrrr the infested just naturally grow them.  I don't think you should be applying normal biological rules.  Even if the ancients are just infested humans, they could easily look like that over hundreds of years as the Infestation grows on them.

[mrhat.lf]

The thing on it's back is an Orokin crown.

 

From the wiki:

 

• The Ancient Healer has a similar Orokin crown on their backs, similar to the Ancient Infested of Lephantis.

 

[Blackout751]

I don't know, but to me this shows Ancients could be some sort of sea life turned Infested.

 

That would imply that Ancients originate from either Earth or Uranus, the former making a lot of sense. Maybe the virus was released all over Earth, necessitating space travel and exodus from it. Over time, the Infestation assimilated most of the life on the planet (hence the barnacles and lack of any wildlife aside from Kubrows?) which coalesced into Ancients, which were given power by Lorists they managed to incorporate into them. Then, the Orokin or the Tenno forced the Infestation back deep into Earth where it lay for centuries upon centuries until the Grineer found it and brought it back (in the form of those Beekloud canisters?) while it simultaneously lay prowling around Derelicts that were never found until the Tenno returned.

 

perhaps ancients are formed when an infested human is consumed within a larger infested form. both lephantis and the juggernaut, as well as the boilers can spawn lesser infested, perhaps these organisms are actually inside these creatures, being converted into a superior form of the infestation. think of it like the total mutations in resident evil 6.

 

That'd make sense... sharing an older lifeform's body with a newer one to enhance it. I don't think it's likely, but it's definitely possible.

[Gale47]

Seeing as how this event happened some 300 years ago, shortly after the fall of the Orokin is my guess, I'd say they weren't originally looking like they do now, but they've become more and more mutated over the years.

What? How do you know it was only three centuries ago?

I would disagree based on the fact that the Orokin weaponry and artifacts are considered "ancient" by Corpus, Grinner and Tenno standards. We're closer to 1000 years at minimum, I'd argue.

 

Regarding the OP - great thinking!

[MartianJellyfish]

I think we're reading the wrong direction into that ending.

 

It's less "Ramballa's consciousness jumps from ancient to ancient" and more "the infested have reproduced Ramballa's lifesigns/genetic structure to use it towards their own ends".

 

Oh yes, I understand the true Ramballa's gone for good, sorry if I didn't make that clear. Thanks for putting it in better words though.

 

 

Clearly space barnacles can grow every where...

D: On no, my lizet

 

Underwater Liset decoration, 50p. 50% off if you're Hydroid.

[MartianJellyfish]

That would imply that Ancients originate from either Earth or Uranus, the former making a lot of sense.

 

Hm. The lore entry happens on Mars. Mars has water. Oh wait!

 

*Looks at username. Looks back at topic*

 

I got it. Ancients were originally Martian Oasis Jellyfish infected and mutated by Technocyte (or whatever the virus is called these days). The barnacles on its back could have attached as it mutated, and becoming part of the creature as well. One of the Infested Jellyfishes tried to eat Ramballa and ended up incorporating her tissue into itself, along with her regenerative and healing capabilities, which originated the Ancient with the looks we see today - or maybe a simpler form that mutated further, considering the time that passed since the event.

 

I'm not completely serious, but it's the most logical explanation I could muster for the barnacles' presence.

[rushari]

Aren't they supposed to be infested sentients from the old war. I'm dissapointed :(